What is UPS doing?

[ACC]

Can someone in clear Texan explain to me what UPS has done concerning their shipping policy on gun parts?

ACC[smilie=b:

[johnsonian09]

They went woke.

They don’t want to have to make sure shipments are not 80% blocks, because the atf and gun control lobby wrote them a letter asking about firearms deliver security.

So they decided to drop firearms service and legal parts delivery and market it as a positive thing to the gun controllers.


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[Minerat]

And they are destroying any they think are gun parts. Heres an article.


https://www.ammoland.com/2022/07/ups-cancelling-gun-dealers-accounts-destroying-packages-in-transit/

[johnsonian09]

I personally am boycotting ups. For all shipments not just gun stuff. And if a seller uses them il avoid it


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[Hannibal]

I personally am boycotting ups. For all shipments not just gun stuff. And if a seller uses them il avoid it


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That's about all you can do. Luckily my deliveries have mostly been through other companies but this may become a trend. If that happens things may get ugly if you want gun parts.

After reading the article linked above it would be interesting to hear a response from Brownells. I doubt their business has anything to do with ghost guns.

[johnsonian09]

Then il order lathes and cnc like a ghost gunner3 and make stuff from raw parts. Malicious compliance seems to be the answer until some heavy law suits are made


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[Finster101]

What gives them the authority to seize and destroy anything? Where does that policing power come from? I see lot's of law suites headed their way for destroyed or damaged property.

[johnsonian09]

They don’t have the authority. It’s stealing privately owned property

And ghost guns aren’t illegal until august I believe

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[Hannibal]

I'm not seeing any news stories on this from anywhere I know to be a reliable source. Mostly firearms sites and next to nothing else.

This may be a Red Herring.

The idea of UPS seizing packages and destroying them doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Mal Paso]

Seems to be the exact same story on every site. I would like to see another source.

UPS Says:


"Prohibited Firearms Shipments

UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment, either domestically or internationally.

UPS does not accept firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts for shipment internationally.

UPS does not accept firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts for shipment domestically unless (1) such shipments are in full compliance with all federal, state, and local laws, including, without limitation, age restrictions; (2) such firearms, including any partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver (as defined by 27 CFR § 478.12) have been identified and bear a serial number in a manner that complies with federal law; and (3) such firearm parts within a package cannot be assembled to form a firearm.

Any item that meets the definition of a firearm (including firearm mufflers or silencers) or a “frame” or “receiver” under federal law (including any partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver as defined by 27 CFR § 478.12) must be identified and bear a serial number in satisfaction of the requirements for identifying such items under federal law, including 27 CFR § 478.92 and/or 27 CFR § 479.102, regardless of whether any such items are otherwise exempt from or not subject to identification requirements under applicable law. This prohibition applies even before the effective date of 27 CFR § 478.12."

It sure sounds like they are jumping the gun.

[country gent]

Insure the packages then let the insurers deal with ups. It wont belong they will come around.

[Tripplebeards]

Maybe that explains why they stepped on and kicked my palmetto state armory red dot to the door last month. Had shoe prints on the box.

If fed ex follows along with them that will kill Internet sales.

[Brokenbear]

Slow down boys ..I just sold a high dollar pistol ..took it to the UPS owned facility (has to ship next day air) and cannot ship thru ANY UPS location except an actual company owned facility
I shipped it yesterday from Missouri to Nevada ..upon presenting it to UPS I announced (as required) that it was a firearm
The UPS employee did not bat an eye ..did not look at me as coming from another planet ..I also supplied the two required chain of custody forms as specified by UPS's requirements ..I left the facility with a signed by UPS's employee custody form
The pistol arrived at the FFL's place of business in Nevada today ..
I know the major carriers are battling theft like crazy ..I suspect they are trying hard to continue the service.. and keep the guns from getting waylayed and carry on with business
Also note the shipping instruction required ANY names or labels to not give away the nature of the contents of the box..
Essentially ..a plain brown box please !

Me thinks since UPS and Fedex are about the only way left to move across the country modern firearms to their next owner ..we had better hope calm minds prevail

Just my $.02

Bear

[Scrounge]

Can someone in clear Texan explain to me what UPS has done concerning their shipping policy on gun parts?

ACC[smilie=b:

According to SAF, several senators sent letters to multiple carriers blaming them for "gun violence."

https://www.saf.org/five-anti-gun-senators-blame-ups-and-other-carriers-for-epidemic-of-gun-violence/

This article includes a copy of the letter UPS sent to Ghost Guns, in Florida:

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/07/ups-cancelling-gun-dealers-accounts-destroying-packages-in-transit/?ct=t(RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN)

HTH!

Bill

[Sasquatch-1]

This may not be entirely relevant, but a few years ago I took a reflex sight to the local franchise owned UPS store. The guy behind the counter asked what I was shipping. I told him it was a sight optic and he refused to accept it stating he does not accept anything firearms related. I had a prepaid preprinted label from the manufacturer and after arguing with him I found a driver on the street who gladly accepted it. The driver also said the guy is quite the butt head. Unfortunately, I still have to deal with this place for Amazon returns.

[Froogal]

I ordered a conversion cylinder for my recently purchased .36 caliber percussion revolver. Scheduled to be delivered July 12 by UPS. We'll see what happens.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I think that some relief can still be found through the US Postal system if the circumstances are right. As far as I know an ordinary citizen may send a long gun through the mail to an FFL Dealer (for sale) or to a gunsmith for repair, and in the case of the repair may receive it back. An FFL Dealer may send a handgun or long gun to another Dealer, which would include an eligible C&R firearm, and a C&R can ship to a C&R. As I recently personally experienced, using the USPS to ship firearms is very expensive! No restriction on shipping parts unless they are explosive.

DG

[farmbif]

I see lots of finger pointing and people jumping to conclusions, a few weeks ago at local ups store I was told live ammo can be shipped by ups from the local hub, I have not found that hub yet but they assured me its no problem. if live ammo can be shipped I can't imagine they would restrict firearms. if it is made impossible to ship firearms and parts many businesses would die and have a definite impact on the economy. how would law enforcement agencies get firearms if there is no way to ship guns?
it just doesn't make sense. I always try to get to source for accurate information and this source would be UPS. I dont have any guns or gun parts to ship or receive and until I do won't inquire with the source. its easy for false rumors to spread like wildfire these days and I refuse to take part in such.

[deltaenterprizes]

What gives them the authority to seize and destroy anything? Where does that policing power come from? I see lot's of law suites headed their way for destroyed or damaged property.

My thoughts exactly !

[Hannibal]

I think that some relief can still be found through the US Postal system if the circumstances are right. As far as I know an ordinary citizen may send a long gun through the mail to an FFL Dealer (for sale) or to a gunsmith for repair, and in the case of the repair may receive it back. An FFL Dealer may send a handgun or long gun to another Dealer, which would include an eligible C&R firearm, and a C&R can ship to a C&R. As I recently personally experienced, using the USPS to ship firearms is very expensive! No restriction on shipping parts unless they are explosive.

DG

I had a perfectly legal handgun shipment get tangled up in a USPS distribution center for over a month for no good reason. Firearm was shipped from an FFL to an FFL and someone took it upon themselves to open the package and have a fit. Postal Inspector got involved as well. As I said it was a perfectly legal transaction and all of the USPS regulations were followed and I did eventually take possession of the pistol from the receiving FFL. There was no good reason for the month long delay and I received no explanation or apology.

When people are involved they will take it upon themselves to break a law to further their cause. I know it happens because it happened to me. Just be aware.

[Winger Ed.]

..took it to the UPS owned facility (has to ship next day air) and cannot ship thru ANY UPS location except an actual company owned facility

That happened to me with shipping a air rifle from our little local UPS shop.

The manager said they weren't licensed to take in firearms or HAZMAT stuff, but the UPS hub could.
(My guess is that they don't have the proper means to store them securely)

I convinced the manager it wasn't a real firearm, and they reluctantly took it--
saving me a trip to the closest hub that's 60 miles away.
But she did tell me not to do it again.

[downzero]

I think that some relief can still be found through the US Postal system if the circumstances are right. As far as I know an ordinary citizen may send a long gun through the mail to an FFL Dealer (for sale) or to a gunsmith for repair, and in the case of the repair may receive it back. An FFL Dealer may send a handgun or long gun to another Dealer, which would include an eligible C&R firearm, and a C&R can ship to a C&R. As I recently personally experienced, using the USPS to ship firearms is very expensive! No restriction on shipping parts unless they are explosive.

DG

Only dealers can mail handguns. As a C&R, I'm not allowed to mail a handgun.

[Wag]

It is a hoax. UPS' policy has not changed:

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for shipment only in the following cases:

(a) Between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies
(b) Where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law:
(i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
(ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions."

Copied from the ups.com web site within the past hour.

--Wag--

[ACC]

That's not what my local UPS is saying.

ACC

[armoredman]

After I heard about this, I waited, and surprise - my order from MidwayUSA was delivered on time in perfect condition by UPS, no problem.

[Hannibal]

That's not what my local UPS is saying.

ACC

I think I'd be asking questions higher up the chain of command. Someone may be implementing their own policy. If not, then at least you know for certain.

I really hope this turns out to be overblown. I make a lot of purchases on Amazon and UPS handles returns. I really don't want to resume running all over the metro area trying to find things like years past.

[Sasquatch-1]

A lot of the UPS Stores are franchises. The owners implement their own policies as I related in my earlier post.

[Wag]

That's not what my local UPS is saying.



A lot of the UPS Stores are franchises. The owners implement their own policies as I related in my earlier post.

^^^ This.

--Wag--

[Handloader109]

If you go to a UPS store, please realize that UPS DOES NOT OWN OR RUN THE STORE. And as stated above, these INDEPENDENT stores ca. Deny to ship anything. You must go to a HUB, to ship if the store denies to ship. Zero reason to get into argument of the store policy.
And you can stop believing everything you see posted.....

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[MrWolf]

It is a hoax. UPS' policy has not changed:

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for shipment only in the following cases:

(a) Between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies
(b) Where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law:
(i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
(ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions."

Copied from the ups.com web site within the past hour.

--Wag--

Brownell's actually called me yesterday as a mould I had on back order from last year became available. I asked the lady about the UPS issue and she said it is true and they do not know what the issue is yet. Granted just an employee there but she did confirm UPS stopped taking packages.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Only dealers can mail handguns. As a C&R, I'm not allowed to mail a handgun.

You notice that I prefaced that with "I think". I have a C&R and have received C&R handguns through the mail, but have not myself shipped any. I'll probably have to look into this a bit more and phone ATF for the straight scoop.

DG

[ACC]

What is a C&R?

ACC

[Scrounge]

What is a C&R?

ACC

Curio & Relic FFL for collectors.

I want one, but not sure I'm going to be able to buy the curios and relics I want. ;)

Bill

[Froogal]

I ordered a conversion cylinder for my recently purchased .36 caliber percussion revolver. Scheduled to be delivered July 12 by UPS. We'll see what happens.

UPDATE.

The conversion cylinder was delivered today. UPS mail innovations. Post office rural mail carrier put it in my mailbox.

[Hannibal]

What is a C&R?

ACC

There are 9 different types of FFL licenses.

[Geezer in NH]

C&R cannot use USPS they are not a dealer nor are they a manufacture.

An affidavit (form supplied by USPS) has to be filed with every handgun shipment stating you are a licensed dealer or manufacture. A collector is neither. I suggest a C&R read what the paperwork the BATFE gives you when you get your license.

[3584ELK]

I personally am boycotting ups. For all shipments not just gun stuff. And if a seller uses them il avoid it


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I guess you have not tried FedEx or USPS lately. If you had, UPS would be your choice.

[3584ELK]

Okay, fellas. Time to stop the hand wringing. While it is true that DOJ sent the carriers a letter asking about their volume and policies regarding firearms, the current internet/ YouTube hysteria is over blown.

From the current UPS Terms of Service document: 3.7.1 Firearms
UPS accepts Packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code)...

Found here:https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/webcontent/en_US/terms_service_us.pdf

If you can quote an authentic source (unlike ammoland, or Billie Joe's YouTube Channel, or TTAG) I am all ears.

Otherwise, I will continue to ship Springfield Armory M1A's every day through my local UPS hub.

[Bmi48219]

….a few weeks ago at local ups store I was told live ammo can be shipped by ups from the local hub, I have not found that hub yet but they assured me its no problem….

Seven years ago I shipped loaded ammo via UPS. Florida to Michigan.
Cartridges had to be in ammo boxes with separators between each round, just like factory ammo.
Maximum shipment was 300 rounds.
Securely packed in sturdy box, at that time had to have an ORMD sticker on box but that had been changed to a different sticker since.
Cost was based on weight and distance with an added charge for hazard.
I knew all this and was properly prepared. The lady told me technically they were supposed to confirm ammo was in ammo boxes before they accepted it for shipment but I had already sealed the package. She took my word for it.
I think it cost me $40.00 to send 300 rounds of .40 S & W. I was told the price is double that recently.

Word to the wise, call and get exact requirements before you seal the box. I had researched the process on line and it didn’t mention an inspection.

[Winger Ed.]

I think it cost me $40.00 to send 300 rounds of .40 S & W. I was told the price is double that recently.



Now days-- For ground shipping, the HAZMAT fee alone is $39.

That's how I missed the boat on $40. a brick primers.
I had a order set, but thought I'd wait a week or two hoping they'd offer the usual free shipping and HAZMAT.
That train pulled out of the station, and I wasn't on it.

[Nobade]

I got an email from the NSSF (national shooting sports foundation) yesterday about this. Evidently it is real. They did not mention whole guns, but rather gun parts. It sounds like they don't want to be shipping "ghost guns". Undoubtedly this is related to Brandon's new push to eliminate ghost guns. We shall see, but I am glad I no longer am involved with them and shipping firearms on a daily basis.

[Wag]

I just checked the UPS.com web site and their policy has not changed.

Brownell's, however, has removed UPS from it's list of available shipping methods.

Most likely, Brownell's had a contract dispute with UPS and UPS is no longer one of their shipping options.

I rather suspect that any shipments already in the channel will make it to their destinations and no shipments will be destroyed.

This is not a good thing but I doubt that it's UPS's fault.

--Wag--

[3584ELK]

I am the other way round on shipping companies. Time and again FedEx and USPS have lost, delayed, mishandled or destroyed shipments. My business model requires reliable shipping of firearms, ammo, and parts. UPS wins hands down on reliability and they beat USPS and FedEx on price. My choice is clear. Good luck to those who ship on other carriers!

[Big Tom]

Did I miss something, or when did "ghost guns" become outlawed?

[Winger Ed.]

Did I miss something, or when did "ghost guns" become outlawed?

They aren't exactly outlawed, but you can't sell one.
Then you become an unlicensed manufacturer.

[James Wisner]

I sent a email to my buyer at Brownell's, below is her response.

Good afternoon,
Yes, our UPS account is currently on hold. Unfortunately, I do not have much information on it at this time.
Please use our FedEx account listed on the purchase order to ship items to us.
Thank you
Rhianna Burk​
Inventory Supply Planner I



Many issues all at work here, hope things get figured out.

Jim Wisner

[Geezer in NH]

Now days-- For ground shipping, the HAZMAT fee alone is $39.

That's how I missed the boat on $40. a brick primers.
I had a order set, but thought I'd wait a week or two hoping they'd offer the usual free shipping and HAZMAT.
That train pulled out of the station, and I wasn't on it.

Ammo is not hazmat. Primers are.

[Geezer in NH]

I just checked the UPS.com web site and their policy has not changed.

Brownell's, however, has removed UPS from it's list of available shipping methods.

Most likely, Brownell's had a contract dispute with UPS and UPS is no longer one of their shipping options.

I rather suspect that any shipments already in the channel will make it to their destinations and no shipments will be destroyed.

This is not a good thing but I doubt that it's UPS's fault.

--Wag--

Winner!!!!!!!!!!