Honestly 32acp for carry...

[dk17hmr]

Found a nice Keltec with some extras for a good price, I would be throwing money at it if it was a 380, but it is a 32 ACP.

What can ya'll tell me about the 32 for defense purposes.

[400cor-bon]

better than fingernails, but worse than most other calibers except the 25 ACP
of course a 32 ACP in the hand on the street
beats a 45 ACP far away in the nightstand . . . .

[dk17hmr]

Honestly I will probably get a S&W 342 AirLite or a small 40S&W for every day carry, but for the rare times when I have to dress up....

[klcarroll]

Many of the .32 ACP loads offer better penetration than the .380; .....and that can work to your advantage.

The key to using ANY "minor caliber" for defense is to NEVER forget the wisdom of "Double-Tapping" or even "Triple-Tapping" as a matter of trained, standard prodedure!!

Kent Carroll

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Here in Peru lots of people carry .32 autos for self protection. The same caliber is popular in Europe. Me personally... I like BIG holes. The biggest excuse I hear is that the .32 autos are less expensive and light wieght. Yes and Yes. But then I bought a very nice 5 shot 38 special with a 2 inch barrel all steel, that wieghs not much more and cost less. Ammo costs the same (here) and a 158gr .38 Special will smack an object with twice the wallop of any .32 auto load. Recoil is no problem as I fire my revolver weekly.
But that is my opinion. I like revolvers. I have auto-loaders. Big ones and little ones. But would I ever trust my hide to the stopping power of a .32 auto in any pachage ? ... If that was the only thing availabe. Bullet placement of course is the bottom line. But I still want a bigger hole. And to me .36 is minimal but acceptable with 160+ soft lead boolit.
God Bless you. Mike

[Willbird]

I think I would pass and wait for a 380, the P32 and the P3at are the exact same size/weight aren't they ??

Bill

[Bret4207]

I don't really know if there's enough difference between a hot loaded 32 or 380 and a standard 38 to make a difference. Let's be real here- The chances of you having to actually use a gun in self defense are pretty darn small, and from stats the mere presence of a weapon is enough to make you the winner in something around 75% of the cases to start with. If the horrid day should come where you do actually have to shoot then You need to do so and hit vital areas until the target is incapacitated to the point he is no longer a threat. For that, I'd prefer a belt fed 12 gauge. Lacking that, any hand gun is a poor choice really, I'll take what ever I can get and handle. A 32 in the pocket with a couple reloads is going to be a lot better than that little Swiss Army knife on my key chain.

It's your decision, but a 22, 25 or 32 would suit me as much as most anything under 357 mag caliber. Stay out of biker bars, meth labs, other mens beds and what not and the rest should take care of itself.

[mtgrs737]

I have a Berreta tomcat in 32acp, but would not carry it if I could get something bigger to work, like a 38 or maybe a 380 if I shot it well. The new Ruger pocket 380 looks like it might work but I would go bigger if possible. A buddy carries a titanium 357 snubby, it is so light but a bit thick. I'm sure the blast and ball of fire would be enough to scare off the bad guys if he misses!

[mike in co]

i now own a spanish early 1900's 32auto(7.65 auto). they are small, 6shot and......well small.

very easy to carry.....but it would be a second choice.

i perfer a 9mak in a pocket pistol...just bought a couple of p64's...added heavy recoil springs, with main springs on back order.

as they come, they smack the hand pretty good.....but who said self defense was easy.

with the spring package, they become much more manageable.

( i also own a bulgarian makarov, a cz 83 and a cz82 , all three in 9mak)

remember the smaller the gun, the more recoil you feel.


mike in co

[FN in MT]

Every time I read about the .32 acp I recall this story...

I was a cop in NJ back in the mid 70's. My partner and I arrested two guys one hot summer night for fighting outside a Bar. As I was searching my guy I felt something in his pants pocket, like a pill or maybe a cartridge. Turns out it was a .32 acp bullet that was STUCK in his pelvis just under where your belt goes around your waist.

He'd gotten shot a few years prior. Claimed that he never even went to the ER! All I can attest to is that he surely had SOMETHING under his skin. If the rest is true or not I don't know. Funny story none the less.

I carried a .380 acp PPK Walther as a summer OD and BUG for many years. NOT my first choice for a fight, but better than nothing.

FN in MT

[klcarroll]

I'm sure the blast and ball of fire would be enough to scare off the bad guys if he misses!

Yes........, The "pyrotechnics” associated with little, bitty, short-barreled magnums can be really impressive to the “casual bystander”: …..But they also leave you with your ears ringing and your night-vision gone.

I would rather be shooting a “minor caliber” than one that leaves me “Blind. Deaf, and Dumb” after the first shot!!

I have been in the position of having to discharge a weapon from inside a vehicle; …..And to this day, I am thankful that I wasn’t carrying a hot magnum load on that occasion!!

Kent

.

[JW6108]

I recently chronographed my KelTec .380. Federal American Eagle 95 grain FMJ is doing 795 fps (135 fpe). The specifications for that load from Federal's website have it at 980 fps (203 fpe).

I realize that factory test barrels in .380 are longer than a KelTec's, but to say that I was not too excited to see this much of a reduction would be an understatement.

For it's size and weight, the KelTec .380 is hard to beat, but let's just say I have become more creative in discreetly carrying my Glock 27. The little gun still has its place, just not as often or in the same way as previously. A .38 snub throwing a 158 grain bullet (even at slower velocity) would inspire more confidence, but as has been pointed out anything is better than nothing and shot placement is always the most important factor in a handgun being carried for self defense.

[Bret4207]

JW- That chrono has put the lie to a LOT of claims. All those super hot 9mm and 41's and what not that were supposed to hurl a deadly bullet at 19 zillion feet a second....well, maybe not once you ran them over a chrono and 1100fps instead of 1400. Reality stinks sometimes.

[JW6108]

JW- That chrono has put the lie to a LOT of claims. All those super hot 9mm and 41's and what not that were supposed to hurl a deadly bullet at 19 zillion feet a second....well, maybe not once you ran them over a chrono and 1100fps instead of 1400. Reality stinks sometimes.

You are exactly right about that.

The same day I did the KelTec, I checked out the Glock 27 with 165 grain Winchester SXT's. 1083 fps; 427 fpe. That's more like it.

That got me to wondering about the Federal .357 125 grain JHP that they issued us back in the day when we carried revolvers. From my 4" 686, they checked out at 1290 fps, 461 fpe. Not shabby at all in itself but makes me appreciate the .40 even more, especially out of a package the size of the G27.

[BPCR Bill]

Years ago a friend was becoming a police officer, and he was issued a book called "Street Survival" In it there was a photo of a "Perp" that a couple of officers had to shoot. If I remember correctly, the guy had been on PCP and the officers had hit him maybe 30 times before he went down, and they were using 9mm's. The coroners photo was pretty graphic, and the corpse looked like he had a raging case of the measles. I would adopt the late Jeff Coopers premise that a small bore pistol is great if your patrol area is a desk. For home defense or carry, give me a .357 Magnum at a minimum.

Regards,
Bill

[Old Ironsights]

Ok.. here's 2p from someone who actually carries a .32

I mostly carry it as a BUG, but it is my Primary when nothing else will conceal... like when I'm in Bicycle shorts or Swimming in Lake Michigan (Yes, I carry a gun while Swimming in the Lake...)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0334.jpg
BTW - THIS (above) IS ALMOSt TRUE-LIFE SIZE.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0332.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0333.jpg

Based on the data provided Here : http://www.naaminis.com/vel32new.html and some personal wet-phonebook testing, I settled on the Fiocchi 60gr SJHP as being the best blend of Velocity (FAST! - 100+fps faster than anyone else's 60gr hp) weight and terminal performance (IIRC about 7") Note - the above link has the 60gr SJHP under the "Magtech" heading. Magtech does not make a 60gr SJHP...)

The Fiocchi also does not have the .32ACP "RimLock" problem that other HPs have - at least it has never done so in my NAA after many hundreds of rounds in all kinds of bizzare shooting/carry/abuse conditions.

It will never be my #1 choice, but for a Belly Gun, I'm satisfied it will do the job.

[bigdog454]

If you are going to a gun fight, No, I don't want a 32acp, I want the belt fed 12ga. But for a carry gun, I would and have carried it. Who among us, other then a LEO has had to pull and use his carry gun? If you are on military duty, and may be under attack then bigger is better. I would not argue with anyone who is pointing a 32 at me.
It has been said, that more people have been killed by a 22 rimfire then by any other caliber!

[45 2.1]

The 32 ACP as factory loaded is rather week. Stuff that thing with Europeon ammo or better yet handloads with a flat round nose boolit and you can get it to 1,020 fps (chronographed) out of a Walther PP (do not try this in a Keltec or other lighter gun, it hurts and is very rough on the gun). That boolit will completely penetrate a deers skull (an hour old dead deer) or 3" inches of live oak and make some nasty exit wounds. Not to shabby if you have a gun that is pin point accurate out to 20 yds. Orange size accuracy to 75 yds. if you can hold it. A lot better than a 22 or 380 ACP. If it isn't a PP though, I would pass.

[Old Ironsights]

That Fiocchi ammo I have runs in the mid 900s out of an NAA Guardian's 2" bbl.

Yes, it's snappy. No, I'm not planning on shooting it at anything over 20yds.

Buffalo Bore sells a 75gr Hard Cast +P that runs to 1150fps (856 out of a 2") (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#32ACP)

PP(K)s are great guns... but not really as pocketable. I agree on the design's inherent accuracy though. I had a pair of CZ50s I bought from the FRG Polezi that were eyeball accurate.

[JW6108]

Years ago a friend was becoming a police officer, and he was issued a book called "Street Survival" In it there was a photo of a "Perp" that a couple of officers had to shoot. If I remember correctly, the guy had been on PCP and the officers had hit him maybe 30 times before he went down, and they were using 9mm's. The coroners photo was pretty graphic, and the corpse looked like he had a raging case of the measles. I would adopt the late Jeff Coopers premise that a small bore pistol is great if your patrol area is a desk. For home defense or carry, give me a .357 Magnum at a minimum.

Regards,
Bill

I remember that very well. I believe that what finally stopped him was a couple of 12 gauge slugs in the back. "Bullet sponge" comes to mind.

[KCSO]

#1 Have a gun
#2 Nobody wants to get shot with anything
#3 A 32 you have on you all the time is worth 3 of anything you have at home
#4 If it was good enough for James Bond, it will be good enough for you. (Dr. No... The 25 is a ladies gun Sir... Now if you want a real stopper Walther PPK in 7.65... Q)

Even Jeff Cooper admitted in print that a hole from a 22 was more deadly than a loud noise from a 44 magnum.

[TAWILDCATT]

they had a shooting in Natick,Mass. state trooper and a suspect trooper shot suspect 12 times with 357 and suspect returned fire with 32 and hit trooper in leg. suspect survived and went to greybar hotel.
police shot at suspect in Woonsochet RI 50 times hit him 3 suspect survived.
when I carry my 32 I have a savage 10 shot or colt 8 shot.at 10 ft I can put them all in a group size of your hand,as fast as I can fire.funny Before WW2 only police had 38 spec and a lot had 38 S&W.they thought they were armed.most people had 32 S&W and 32 rim fire.people must have got harder to kill.or is it center of mass and drugs dont go together.:coffee: [smilie=1:

[klcarroll]

....For home defense or carry, give me a .357 Magnum at a minimum.

The next time you're at an indoor range, try this: Load your 2.5" to 4" 357 with a full house factory JHP load.

Then, ask to have the house lights turned off, ......Do NOT put on your ear protection, ....and then TRY to hit the target with all six.

Your probably saying; "NO FRIGGIN WAY!!!"

.....OK, ....Fair enough! .......But if you're unwilling to do this in a controlled, "No Threat" situation; ......Why would you commit yourself to doing it when your life, or the lives of your family are on the line???

In real life, the Magnums offer all of the WRONG attributes for close range combat: Too much blast and flash, .......too much penetration, ....and too much recoil.

It is beyond my understanding why people persist in carrying short barreled magnums (the only sort really practical for personal concealed carry) when there are fine, effective low pressure cartridges like the .44 Special, .45 LC, .45 ACP, and .45 Auto Rim available in compact, short barreled weapons.

If you MUST go with a .357, then load some 200 grain lead boolits up to about 850 FPS, using a powder that minimizes muzzle blast. (Yup! ......try to make your .357 shoot like a .44 Special!)

Kent

[Old Ironsights]

...If you MUST go with a .357, then load some 200 grain lead boolits up to about 850 FPS, using a powder that minimizes muzzle blast. (Yup! ......try to make your .357 shoot like a .44 Special!)

Kent

Oddly enough, whe I'm not carrying flash-reduced .38sp LSWCHP+P (summer) I'm carrying Federal Premium 180gr SHJP (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=108) (winter).

(FWIW, I'd rather fire ANY 180gr .357 from my SP101 than a 125 or 158...)

I agree completely.

[Houndog]

Lots of good advice in some of the above posts! I just went through a self defense school for a CCW permit and the instructor recomended the 380 as a minimum and up to a 45ACP on the top side using hollow point ammo. He specifically stated not to use a magnum because of shooting through your target. His favorites were 9mm, 38 special, 40S&W 44 special, and 45ACP.

[mike in co]

The next time you're at an indoor range, try this: Load your 2.5" to 4" 357 with a full house factory JHP load.

Then, ask to have the house lights turned off, ......Do NOT put on your ear protection, ....and then TRY to hit the target with all six.

Your probably saying; "NO FRIGGIN WAY!!!"

.....OK, ....Fair enough! .......But if you're unwilling to do this in a controlled, "No Threat" situation; ......Why would you commit yourself to doing it when your life, or the lives of your family are on the line???

In real life, the Magnums offer all of the WRONG attributes for close range combat: Too much blast and flash, .......too much penetration, ....and too much recoil.

It is beyond my understanding why people persist in carrying short barreled magnums (the only sort really practical for personal concealed carry) when there are fine, effective low pressure cartridges like the .44 Special, .45 LC, .45 ACP, and .45 Auto Rim available in compact, short barreled weapons.

If you MUST go with a .357, then load some 200 grain lead boolits up to about 850 FPS, using a powder that minimizes muzzle blast. (Yup! ......try to make your .357 shoot like a .44 Special!)

Kent

kent...very good comment......the other side of the real world of CARRY is that most of those do not come in carry versions most are willing to put up with.
so we compomise......just shoot the gun alot so you know what to expect.

mike in co

[Bret4207]

they had a shooting in Natick,Mass. state trooper and a suspect trooper shot suspect 12 times with 357 and suspect returned fire with 32 and hit trooper in leg. suspect survived and went to greybar hotel.
police shot at suspect in Woonsochet RI 50 times hit him 3 suspect survived.
when I carry my 32 I have a savage 10 shot or colt 8 shot.at 10 ft I can put them all in a group size of your hand,as fast as I can fire.funny Before WW2 only police had 38 spec and a lot had 38 S&W.they thought they were armed.most people had 32 S&W and 32 rim fire.people must have got harder to kill.or is it center of mass and drugs dont go together.:coffee: [smilie=1:

Next time you're at the range have someone start shooting at you and lets see those hand size groups.:roll:

[TAWILDCATT]

your right BRET but I have been in some tight situations and they came out ok as I did not freeze and controled the situation.no I did not have to fire but one time.:coffee: [smilie=1:

[hooverdm]

I shoot my Automatic Colt .32 quite often. Real fun to shoot. It's a little hard to carry with a 4 inch barrel, but I have on occasion because it is so thin and reasonably light. I'm with Old Ironsights concerning Fiocchi HP's. They are considerably better than FMJ. There are several HPs on the market, anyone of them will be better than FMJ. If you have a .32, carry it. If you are trying to decide between .32 and .380, I'd go with the .380, they are being built small. I'd love to try out the new Ruger .380.

Dave H
San Antonio, TX

[Bret4207]

your right BRET but I have been in some tight situations and they came out ok as I did not freeze and controled the situation.no I did not have to fire but one time.:coffee: [smilie=1:

I'm not tying to get ya going. I just get tired of hearing the same old/same old when there's a gun fight. Every keyboard commando on the 'net starts bad mouthing the cop and going on about how HE can plunk all his rounds in the 10 ring at half a mile.

I wish I could take all those guys and put them in a car and have them pull traffic over for a few weeks. Somewhere between car # 497 and car # 1156 have the bad guy open fire as the know it all walks up to the car. They'd all do the same thing everyone else does- the best they can. And I guarantee there'd be no x-ring accuracy.

[klcarroll]

.....I wish I could take all those guys and put them in a car and have them pull traffic over for a few weeks. Somewhere between car # 497 and car # 1156 have the bad guy open fire as the know it all walks up to the car. They'd all do the same thing everyone else does- the best they can. And I guarantee there'd be no x-ring accuracy.

Bret;

Absolutely right on the money!!!!

Thirty years ago, back when I received my "practical instruction", there was an FBI statistic that indicated a couple of interesting things:

1) Most handgun firefights occur at ranges of 7 yards or less.

2) It was NOT unusual for BOTH combatants to empty their weapons WITHOUT scoring a hit!

I would be willing to bet that things are not much different now. (Except that "Hi-Cap" weapons don't interrupt the "spraying" as often for reloading! LOL)

Kent

[dk17hmr]

Valid points all around. I thank everyone for the input.

Still not sure which way to go.

[Old Ironsights]

Not a fan of striker-fired guns... but if that doesn't bother you, the Kel Tec with Fiocchi or Buffalo Bore will be a fine BUG or occasional PDW - especially if CHeap and with No Paper.

[NuJudge]

"keyboard commando"

Now there's another classic phrase!

CDD

[TAWILDCATT]

I have shot beside some first class police shooters.but most dont and wont practice enuf.and if not given ammo would not shoot at all.I have seen police that had carried for yrs and when they emptied them the cart were green and those in they belts were green.I want them to shoot and become good marksmen,I dont want them to become dead.I grew up in a city where the police had a star reloader and were state champions.I traded them primers for 45 acp for their thompsons.that was a diferent time when the bad guys did not want to get in a gun fight with police.I have been around since 1924.:coffee: [smilie=1:

[Bret4207]

That's fine. Doesn't change facts. When someone is shooting back at you those hand size groups go out the window. I just get tired of hearing the stories and opinions, 99.99999% coming from people who have never looked down the wrong end of a gun barrel, much less taken part in a gun fight.

[Old Ironsights]

Won't disagree at all Brett... Only been in two "situations" as a civ, ... never had to drop the hammer.

Fairly confident of Round #1... but after that????

All I know is, the last time I was being seriously shot at I was't terribly interested in aiming... only in getting THA and back to the AAR....

[NoDakJak]

I firmly believe that both Brett and klcarrol are right. The first time that I used a handgun for real was when hunting a burglar. I didn't know if there was only one or more and whether he/they were armed. It is unbelievable how the adrenaline squirts! I was vibrating like a pair of castanets and would probably have had to make body contact to have hit anyone with my little Chiefs Special. Thank god they had already left and I didn't have to shoot. One night while standing "Petty Officer of the Watch" I reviewed some reports that had been made by returned Korean War POWs. One pilot reported that when shot down he had been accosted by five North Korean soldiers. He stated that he had emptied his 1911 Colt at them with fanges varying from arm length to ten feet. At that time I just couldn't believe that he had missed with all seven rounds. It is almost unbelievable that he could miss with all seven rounds at that range but at least now I have a little better understanding.
Olde Shakey Neil

[Bret4207]

I recall turning a corner one night on a burglary in process complaint and looking down the barrel of the BIGGEST 22 lr ever made. It was about 8" from my nose. Fortunately it was the homeowner and not a bad guy and he wasn't crazy about the idea of shooting more people since he'd had his fill of that in WW1. Adrenalin? More like the fastest acting laxative ever developed!

[Old Ironsights]

Bret... that wasn't a .22... that was a 220mm doncha remember? ;)

[S.R.Custom]

I think I would pass and wait for a 380, the P32 and the P3at are the exact same size/weight aren't they ??

I recently had the opprotunity to compare the .32 and a .380 Kel Tecs, as well as the new Ruger LCP.

The .380s are larger and heavier than the .32, with the Ruger being the biggest of the bunch. Not much, but some. And both of the Kel Tec guns got larger and heavier with the transition from Gen I to Gen II. The best one of the bunch in terms of size and weight is the Gen I Kel Tec .32.... Also, the .380 Kel Tec does not have a slide hold-open of any kind. (The Ruger LCP has a manual slide latch.) And the .380s are quite a bit spendier than the .32, with the Ruger running a few dollars more than the P3AT.

On the flip side of the coin is the fact that the relevant ballistic/energy numbers of the .380 are almost double that of the .32. And .380 ammo is cheaper. If I were one of those folks that had to have the ballistically superior .380, I'd opt for the Ruger, but for me the .32 Kel Tec, being the smallest, is the best suited for its intended purpose.

[Old Ironsights]

The Fiocchi is relatively inexpensive... ;)

[9.3X62AL]

I have two 32 ACPs in the stable at present, one of which is an utterly reliable 1965-vintage Walther PP. On occasion I carry this little pocket rocket, aware of its limitations and modest capabilities. 45-2.1 makes a very good point as to ammunition for this caliber as loaded in the USA--it is adulterated significantly from its European (and Browning-designed) ballistic potential. This was a 71 grain FMJ at 900 FPS, so one of those 60 grain HPs should safely achieve 1000 FPS or thereabouts. Still not "Cape buffalo-capable", but not something I would stand downrange from with a baseball glove to field.

Let's remember the social context is which the pocket blowbacks like the .25, 32, and 380 ACP were birthed. MUCH HAS CHANGED since they appeared on scene roughly 110 years ago.

1) Gunfight dynamics have changed RADICALLY in the past 40-50 years. At the turn of the 19th to 20th Century, it was deemed appropriate and acceptable to fire upon fleeing suspected felons, using a sidearm as a form of high-yield marking pellet. Theodore Roosevelt, no stranger to the concept of stopping power, had his officers at NYCPD outfitted with Colt Pocket Positive revolvers in 32 caliber. This was deemed appropriate for the times and circumstances.

2) GREAT strides in emergency medicine over the past several decades--learned on battlefields all over the world--have resulted in a situation where criminal predators foolishly feel that it is a fair gamble to run the risk of getting shot during a crime's commission. This isn't universal by any means, but I heard enough references to such idiocy during interviews to regard it as a factor in some percentage of violent crimes, especially when the rocket scientists contemplating such moves are anaesthetized and/or crazed by whatever drug(s) they ingest prior to their forays and depredations.

Summarized, the pocket blowbacks come from a time when ANY gunshot wound--even if not immediately fatal--could result in death over time, often a very painful and agonizing death from infections or complications. Also, civil judgements have largely made shots at fleeing suspects a thing of the past, and even the most justified shooting of any violent felon will still result in lawsuits against good-faith self-defenders. In short, the violent criminals we as citizens or LEOs project lethal force against are ALWAYS in our face and are ALWAYS projecting lethal force with us when we engage them, and there are few disincentives for those predators to do so--many fewer than there were 110 years ago.

In short--the world at large is a lot more dangerous for decent citizens than it once was, and a lot less so for predators--AND THEY DAMN WELL KNOW IT. With that in mind, make your choices of carry sidearms appropriately. Is a 32 ACP the best choice for some carry venues in this day and age? Your call.

[Bret4207]

Bret... that wasn't a .22... that was a 220mm doncha remember? ;)

It seemed to me to be as big around as a 55 gallon drum at the time!:mrgreen:

[9.3X62AL]

It seemed to me to be as big around as a 55 gallon drum at the time!:mrgreen:

Yup! Best quote ever from a robbery victim, a good kid who worked as a convenience store clerk in Palm Desert. When asked if he could give a description of the suspect, the kid said (among other things) "HE LOOKED LIKE A M---------ING HOWITZER IN REEBOKS!"

[pdawg_shooter]

Stay alive, pack a 45!

[Triggerhappy]

I bought one of the Ruger LCP's early last year for a BUG and for the occasional times when I can't pack the .45 LCP IWB. They announced a recall and I finally got my "paperwork" to send it back the first week of January this year. Got it back from the recall repairs at then end of last week. The only problem I have with that pistol is that it wouldn't feed hollowpoints consistently. The blunt nose of the bullet would impact the sides of the feed ramp and stop it before battery. I cut the ramp a little and polished everything. Helped but about 1 in 40 would still stop. Not good enough for a carry gun of any sort. So I noted that on the tag when I sent it back to Ruger for the work. They sent it back with the ramp cut even more than I did. So I immediately pumped 150 hollowpoints through it without a problem. If anyone gets an LCP and wants to push hollowpoints I would recommend the same. I can take a photo of the ramp and post as well as run a micrometer on it. FWIW.

As far as shooting the LCP, it does have a crack in the hands since it's so light. I have fairly strong hands so the only thing that I found uncomfortable was that in recoil my trigger finger would strike the bottom of the triggerguard fairly hard. May have been made more noticeable in that my hands were very cold at the time but there was no hold I could perform that would keep it from happening. I don't remember it happening the last time I shot it a bunch though.

I think that for a fairly light bullet these guns would only be effective at the close ranges that most altercations occur. I did dome terminal ballistics testing to satisfy my own curiosity when I first got it using some hanging meat. I think the bullet would do the trick with the proper placement. Not like that of a .45 with Hydroshocks but it's better than throwing rocks.

Having never owned a pistol smaller that a .38 for defense before I bought this, I think it's a good choice. It's much better to have something small that you will be willing to pack around than the occasional times when you just can't carry because of what you're wearing or where you're going. I've never shot a .32 and I know that's what this thread is about. I just thought I would share some observations about the LCP since it was brought up.

TH

[lawboy]

The next time you're at an indoor range, try this: Load your 2.5" to 4" 357 with a full house factory JHP load.

Then, ask to have the house lights turned off, ......Do NOT put on your ear protection, ....and then TRY to hit the target with all six.

Your probably saying; "NO FRIGGIN WAY!!!"

.....OK, ....Fair enough! .......But if you're unwilling to do this in a controlled, "No Threat" situation; ......Why would you commit yourself to doing it when your life, or the lives of your family are on the line???

In real life, the Magnums offer all of the WRONG attributes for close range combat: Too much blast and flash, .......too much penetration, ....and too much recoil.

It is beyond my understanding why people persist in carrying short barreled magnums (the only sort really practical for personal concealed carry) when there are fine, effective low pressure cartridges like the .44 Special, .45 LC, .45 ACP, and .45 Auto Rim available in compact, short barreled weapons.

If you MUST go with a .357, then load some 200 grain lead boolits up to about 850 FPS, using a powder that minimizes muzzle blast. (Yup! ......try to make your .357 shoot like a .44 Special!)

Kent


There is alot of wisdom in what klcaroll says. A lot of wisdom. That kind of thinking made me switch from a 357 to a 3-inch 45acp for daily carry and reserve the 357 for times when I am out in the woods camping, hiking, etc., where larger animals and longer shots may be needed.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I never leave home without my .32 Seecamp in my front pants pocket. All my vehicles have a 1911 .45 or 10mm under the seat at all times. Great, if I can reach them. The only piece of advice I'd like to give, is to regularly practice "point shooting", with whatever you decide you can carry on a regular basis. In a gunfight, at night, close your eyes as you pull the trigger.
Back in another life, I was required, off duty, to carry either my S&W Mod. 10, or my Colt Det. Spl. This meant an outside shirt in the warm months. What a pleasure to be able to drop something into your pocket.
Morgan

[MikeSSS]

The ideal platform for a .32 ACP is the Kel-Tec. The .380 Kel-Tec seems to be the same size and weight to me as does the Ruger LCP in .380. The .380's are supposed to be a bit bigger and heavier but I can't feel it. The exception to this is that the LCP's grip is a bit wider.

I used to carry a Glock 26 9mm in the front pocket of cargo pants or shorts. These pants had pocket slits closer to horizontal than vertical, the G-26 drew very fast from these pants.

Now days I wear Docker style pants and have carried a S&W 442 .38 spl for a few years in the front pocket. It's a great gun but it draws slowly from those pants. A few days ago I started carrying a Ruger LCP, it probably draws in 1/3 the time compared to the S&W revolver. On occasion I have carried a Beretta mod 21A in 22LR, it draws slower than the Ruger, the difference is noticeable. This is because the 21A's handle is wider than the LCP's. The Kel-Tec's handle is narrower than the LCP's and that would be better but the LCP draws faster than any other pocket pistol I've tried. Faster is better.

The G-26 is by far the heaviest at 27.0 oz, the 442 and it's speedloader together are lighter at 20.4 oz but still too heavy. The LCP with a spare mag is the lightest at 15.0 oz, the 22A with a spare mag is 15.23 oz.

All four of these guns are very easy to hit well with in very fast point shooting at self defense ranges. The Glock 26 is the best shooting, especially in very fast shooting and is capable of hitting a silhouette at 50 yards, it's a fantastic gun. The S&W 442, Beretta 21A and the LCP all can hit very well in very fast point shooting. The 21A sometimes needs to double strike a cartridge and occasionally won't fire one at all but it's very reliable in functioning if clean and using ammo it likes.

Back to the .32 ACP, in a Kel-Tec the .32 and the .380 seem pretty much the same to me as does the LCP. Recoil isn't much but they do snap back into your hand sharply and the handle is thin so it puts more pressure on your hand than might be expected. All fire from a locked breech and are of the short recoil type so that reduces recoil to the hand some and reduces the recoil spring stiffness needed. There isn't room for a striker so they all use a hammer that partially cocks when the slide cycles. The parts diagram blowups for the Kel-Tec and LCP look nearly identical but the parts aren't interchangable. The LCP has very good fit and finish and the magazines load easily, the Kel-Tec looks more home-made to me.

.380 brass is the devil to find, lots harder than 9mm for some reason, .32 brass would be even harder to find. I spent an hour looking for brass the other day and still couldn't find 6 .380 cases out of only 42 fired. The ol' Dillon 550B will barely throw a charge small enough for the .380, I'm not sure it can load for the .32 ACP. I'll try cast 105 gr SWC's in the LCP tomorrow and post how that works out.

If you reload for cheaper practice and for ammo that doesn't beat the gun up as much as factory ammo then .380 is probably the way to go.

As far as stopping an attacker getting multiple hits in the area of the heart or the large blood vessels on it's top is important as is having the penetration to that depth. Practice looking only at the target and point shooting fast while moving is important. Doing this to the side and while turning around is good too. If you get the hits a .32 might do it but bigger is better.....blood out.....air in and all that.

PS, though I have a .380 in the pocket there's a .45 beside me as I type this.