Have you ever mixed copper sulphate with molten lead?

[justindad]

Have you ever mixed copper sulphate with molten lead?

[Nobade]

Why would you want to?

[BIGOX]

Nope I've never had the need to

[hiram]

What happens when you mix lead and copper in a solution?
This is what’s known as a metal displacement reaction: the lead substitutes for the copper and ends up precipitating out of solution as insoluble lead (II) sulfate. This is similar to what happens in lead-acid batteries: What would you do with stuff.

I remember in boy scout camp one of the waterfront counselors would drag a burlap bag of copper-sulfate in the swimmers area. This was to kill the leaches.

[Eddie Southgate]

Can't imagine why I would want to.

[pworley1]

No.

[Newboy]

Because a little copper in the alloy makes tougher bullets

And some say it will remove any zinc contamination.


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[popper]

Mixing Pb and Cu doesn't work. Mixing Cu with Sb does work. Mixing suphur with lead works, hardens the Pb but stinks pretty bad.
Covered in the stickys. CuSO4 replaces tin or zinc in the mix (maybe some other stuff too) and combines with Sb. Does NOTHING for Pb. Becomes a large tough molecule. I pushed 168gr to 2700 fps accurately out of AR10. 2k fps PB from BO carbine. Tough alloy holds to the rifling better and does pass the rpm limit, no problem. I don't deliberately use for pistol stuff but it doesn't hurt in 9mm.
Cheap and easy way to get better bullets. Lee bottom pour pot doesn't freeze up, good bullets with NO tin. They PC fine too.
Pb is malleable as it is a cubic lattice with low shear strength. Adding CU/SB molecule provides a better 'shear' strength without the brittleness of straight Sb.

[Doughty]

I have been experimenting with this during the last year. I think it is beneficial for use in the 2300 to 2600 fps range. I have killed two deer with it. I plan to keep using it.

[wmitty]

Several years ago I was given a piece of cylindrical metal which was quite dense and thought to be lead. I melted it in with some wheel weight alloy and I was surprised at the cobalt blue surface of the melted alloy. The mixture would not flow through my dipper when I tried casting and I felt that I had misidentified the metal I had added to the wheel weight. After attempting to dilute the mixture by adding additional wheel weight alloy (to no apparent effect) I in desperation purchased some copper sulfate and added several ounces a little at a time to the melted/contaminated alloy.. this resulted in the formation of a grey powder on the melt surface which I dipped off and disposed of. I had no idea what the compound was. I was left with a melted alloy which was acceptable as boolit material. I felt rather foolish about the whole thing as I was sure I had ruined a large quantity of wheel weight alloy and it was Popper’s suggestion on using the copper sulfate that allowed me to salvage a portion of the metal.

[Eddie Southgate]

Because a little copper in the alloy makes tougher bullets

And some say it will remove any zinc contamination.


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Never had a problem with zinc in my alloy. As far as the other goes if I want any copper ( which I don't ) in my alloy I would add a bit of Babbit metal.

[jonp]

I have been experimenting with this during the last year. I think it is beneficial for use in the 2300 to 2600 fps range. I have killed two deer with it. I plan to keep using it.

Can you explain this in a little more depth? Why beneficial in that fps range or at all for that matter

[Doughty]

jonp,
I hunt, primarily, for deer and antelope. I also use, primarily, rifles in .30 and .33 calibers. I believe, all other things being equal, that "flatter" trajectories are "better" than more "arched" trajectories. Bullet "speed" is an important component of trajectories. Faster speeds equal flatter trajectories. I believe that a "tough" bullet alloy aids in achieving faster bullet speeds while still allowing "good" terminal performance in game. I believe that some copper in lead bullet projectiles can contribute to bullet toughness. I believe that the "copper sulfate - zinc/tin exchange" method is one way to achieve this.

Sadly, I don't have the time, energy and writing ability necessary to produce a well thought out, data heavy, image enhanced, article to "prove" my beliefs.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m surprised that such a high percentage of members have. I think that will change as the poll goes on.

[BIGOX]

I've got about 50 lbs of lead with zinc contamination. I have yet to use any but figured I would just mix a little in at a time with good lead. I would rather delute then play with another chemical but I am interested in possibly replacing zinc with copper sulphate. Only I would need research more before I would even consider.
With people starting to cast with zinc and reclaim lead become a new standard over CWW this might come in handy in the very near feature.

[shortlegs]

Yes I wanted a tougher not harder boolit

[Maven]

Apparently enough showed interest in this to make it a Sticky: Fifth one down from the top in this subform.

[gwpercle]

I for one remove the zinc wheel weights before they go into the melting pot .
It isn't hard to test them with diagonal cutters ... why take a chance of melting them when it's so easy to test them .

Here is a saying from my Mom ... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure "...
Mixing Copper Sulfate with molten lead just doesn't sound like something I want to do .
Gary

[BIGOX]

I for one remove the zinc wheel weights before they go into the melting pot .
It isn't hard to test them with diagonal cutters ... why take a chance of melting them when it's so easy to test them .

Here is a saying from my Mom ... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure "...
Mixing Copper Sulfate with molten lead just doesn't sound like something I want to do .
Gary

As do I and I'm sure must everyone here dose as well. I bought my zinc contaminate lead from a scrap dealer @ $0.50 a pound (still not bad) before I learned to test for zinc and I'm sure theirs a lot of boat keels that may be contaminated out there. I think unfortunately do to the supplies of lead in the country becoming more scarce tricks like this may need to become regular practice for casters in the near future who are using scrap metals or reclaim bullets to make alloys. I for one really don't want anything to do with it but if a few educated experiments can potentially assist me in the future. Then it's something I must at least consider.

[justindad]

Has anyone had XRF testing done on a lead sample after it was treated with copper sulphate?

[BIGOX]

Has anyone had XRF testing done on a lead sample after it was treated with copper sulphate?

Now that's a good question. If finding an XRF gun in your area is an issue there's a member here who does lead testing.

I guess I could try different methods myself and send them all to be tested. To see which methods works best or works at all.

[BentSprings]

Hardness does not matter as much as it used to. Do not ever see me adding copper to my melt. Thank you powder coat paint, you sure made life much easier.

[gpidaho]

If I need a tougher bullet (rarely) I add a small amount of copper hard babbit. You don't want to get carried away if you're using a bottom pour pot as a little too much copper will cause spout freeze.Gp

[Krh1326]

Is the Copper Sulfate in question, a blue crystalline type? I have been pouring thru posts on this, and saw one comment, somewhere, that copper sulfate pentahydrate (the blue crystals ) shouldn’t be added to molten mix as the pentahydrate means 5 molecules of water… which will do the water in lead pot thing. Amorphous Copper Sulfate is a power.
What form of copper sulfate is being used here?

[Sasquatch-1]

The only time I have used copper sulfate with lead is when I tried copper plating bullets. I gave it up as a lost cause.

[justindad]

Is the Copper Sulfate in question, a blue crystalline type? I have been pouring thru posts on this, and saw one comment, somewhere, that copper sulfate pentahydrate (the blue crystals ) shouldn’t be added to molten mix as the pentahydrate means 5 molecules of water… which will do the water in lead pot thing. Amorphous Copper Sulfate is a power.
What form of copper sulfate is being used here?

Blue crystals - Zepp Root Kill. I place the crystals on top of the lead before I turn on the pot, so they are well dried before I start mixing.