Is Your Favorite Leveraction Cartridge Listed In Winchester's 1895 Catalog?

[Savvy Jack]

With black powder still in full force and smokeless powder now starting, I was wondering if your favorite Winchester leveraction cartridge was listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog, and if so...which one.

Although I have a great love for the 44-40 black powder loads, I have grown very close to the history of the original smokeless loads of that time era.

Since the leveraction postal match died a rather quick death, I might try one for these old girls, minus modern design scopes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LY2XcUP-Z-h7oiuZh630IIckYN6kk_1hq93aT6wlCus/edit#gid=1242120395

301775
301776
301777
301778
301779
301780
301781
301782

[Tazman1602]

45-70 and I’m guessing it was in their catalog..

Art

[MostlyLeverGuns]

No 32 Special, no 300 Savage, n0 35 Rem.

[Savvy Jack]

No 32 Special, no 300 Savage, n0 35 Rem.

Was it listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog?

[Pereira]

38-55[emoji848][emoji6][emoji16]

RP

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[missionary5155]

I have to go to the caliber 50-100-450. I shot our's more last time north than any other levergun.
Half the time was with smokeless duplicating the BP load as I did not want to use my last 3 pounds of Goex on steel. And when I had the rifle out 50 to 100 rounds went down the tube.

[pworley1]

You might add to the Savage series others have mentioned the 243 win, 22 high power, 250-3000, 303 savage 358 win.

[Savvy Jack]

You might add to the Savage series others have mentioned the 243 win, 22 high power, 250-3000, 303 savage 358 win.

Are these listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog?

[jonp]

38-55[emoji848][emoji6][emoji16]

RP

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

Took more than one deer with that handed down rifle.

[Texas by God]

Wouldn't the 25-35 and .30WCF be in that catalog- since they were introduced in 1895?
38-55 is my favorite ( and only)lever action rifle at present; it should be listed as it was one of the two original cartridges for the new 1894 Winchester rifle.

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[Savvy Jack]

Wouldn't the 25-35 and .30WCF be in that catalog- since they were introduced in 1895?
38-55 is my favorite ( and only)lever action rifle at present; it should be listed as it was one of the two original cartridges for the new 1894 Winchester rifle.

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Are you able to view the list in the poll?

[todd9.3x57]

well, i'm going to have say no cartridges are available, so no. if it were my choice, it would be either 30-40 krag or the 405 win. i'd also wildcat 30WCF to 35/30-30.

[Savvy Jack]

well, i'm going to have say no cartridges are available, so no. if it were my choice, it would be either 30-40 krag or the 405 win. i'd also wildcat 30WCF to 35/30-30.

I always did like the 30-40 Krag but...... The 405 wasn't available until 1904 and the 35 didn't come around till 1903. For whatever it's worth, the Model 1895 didn't come out in the 1895 catalog....go figure.

However, the 1895, as we all know, was the leader for all of our current box magazine rifle cartridge.

This is somewhat the reason I stopped at the 1895 catalog ;-)

[bosterr]

I have my Great Grandad's '94 32-40 in my safe. The serial number puts it at 1897 vintage. It's in beautiful condition.

[Texas by God]

When I click on the link, I just see the postal match info..... so I'm confused...no Winchester 1895 catalog......
But that's not unusual [emoji848]
For me to be confused.

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[Savvy Jack]

When I click on the link, I just see the postal match info..... so I'm confused...no Winchester 1895 catalog......
But that's not unusual [emoji848]
For me to be confused.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk


That is because the link is for the postal match information. HOWEVER, At the link, there is some trajectory information on the cartridges out to 300 yards. The cartridges in BOLD are still manufactured by Winchester and and their trajectories charted in each "Class" for those interested. Here it is again

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LY2XcUP-Z-h7oiuZh630IIckYN6kk_1hq93aT6wlCus/edit#gid=1242120395

No link to the 1895 catalog

[indian joe]

Was it listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog?

mine is 45/75 ---its listed in a later catalog - dont have the front cover or date but it quotes "number of motor cars in use-54" so likely 1910 or in there someplace. Only one loading quoted - 75 grains of Blackpowder and 350 grain boolit.

Back in the day Winchester loaded a 450 grain pp boolit over 90 grains of powder for the 1876 - (target load for single loading) -- kind of put paid to the idea that the '76 was not strong enough to shoot the military 45/70 round - they just couldnt fit it in the action as a repeater was the problem. I think I would be quite happy to take on a trapdoor with a single loaded '76 - not a lot in it but I back the winchester.!

I shoot a 460 grain pointy grease groove boolit in mine over 75 grains of FF homemade (no more will fit in the 348 derived brass) --only problem is once you load it you committed to firing - or have to spring the extractor up over the case rim to get the loaded round out of the action

[Savvy Jack]

mine is 45/75 ---its listed in a later catalog - dont have the front cover or date but it quotes "number of motor cars in use-54" so likely 1910 or in there someplace. Only one loading quoted - 75 grains of Blackpowder and 350 grain boolit.

Back in the day Winchester loaded a 450 grain pp boolit over 90 grains of powder for the 1876 - (target load for single loading) -- kind of put paid to the idea that the '76 was not strong enough to shoot the military 45/70 round - they just couldnt fit it in the action as a repeater was the problem. I think I would be quite happy to take on a trapdoor with a single loaded '76 - not a lot in it but I back the winchester.!

I shoot a 460 grain pointy grease groove boolit in mine over 75 grains of FF homemade (no more will fit in the 348 derived brass) --only problem is once you load it you committed to firing - or have to spring the extractor up over the case rim to get the loaded round out of the action



Do you have a favorite leveraction cartridge that is listed in the 1895 catalog?

[indian joe]

Do you have a favorite leveraction cartridge that is listed in the 1895 catalog?

........proly 38wcf
how come the 45/75 not on the list when its still listed in later catalog???-----was 1895 a skinny year for cartridge sales ???????

if I was running in that postal comp it'd be 38/55.......................
meant to enter that ! dang!

[Savvy Jack]

........proly 38wcf
how come the 45/75 not on the list when its still listed in later catalog???-----was 1895 a skinny year for cartridge sales ???????

if I was running in that postal comp it'd be 38/55.......................
meant to enter that ! dang!

I am not sure, was hoping some of that stuff would get discussed. The cartridge is listed but not for the 1886...hmmmmm I may have goofed on a few others too.

I think I missed the 38-70-255, 38-56-255 for the Model 1886...and I may have added a few that shouldn't be there

301783
301784

The 45-75 is listed on page 83 and I completetly forgot about the Model 76, although it is not listed.....DUH!!!

[Walks]

.38-55
Had a model 94 for 30+yrs, Sweet rifle, sweet cartridge.

[Pereira]

I do also like the 25-20, have one in a 1892.

RP

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[indian joe]

I am not sure, was hoping some of that stuff would get discussed. The cartridge is listed but not for the 1886...hmmmmm I may have goofed on a few others too.

I think I missed the 38-70-255, 38-56-255 for the Model 1886...and I may have added a few that shouldn't be there

301783
301784

The 45-75 is listed on page 83 and I completetly forgot about the Model 76, although it is not listed.....DUH!!!

some interesting stuff from my catalog

The 1886 was advertised only in the "new" 33winchester and 45/70
1873 was still listed

prices for a 24 inch octagonal barrel rifle
1892................$25
1973................$28
1876 (45/70) ...$32

ammo
44Winchester (our 44/40) 200grain lead over 38 grains blackpowder
44Colt............................217gr 40 gr
44/40 marlin ..................217gr 40gr
44 Game Getter ..............115gr 34 gr (looks like a round ball load)
all listed for winchester rifles

Blackpowder loads as above all $33.25 per 1000
Smokeless (jacketed SP) $42
44 model 92 special W.H.V. $47.25

some serious inflation from 1895
your price for 40-65-260 .......$33 per 1000
my price for 40-65-260 .......$62.75 per 1000

what price your book for a 24" rifle?

[Savvy Jack]

some interesting stuff from my catalog

The 1886 was advertised only in the "new" 33winchester and 45/70
1873 was still listed

prices for a 24 inch octagonal barrel rifle
1892................$25
1973................$28
1876 (45/70) ...$32

ammo
44Winchester (our 44/40) 200grain lead over 38 grains blackpowder
44Colt............................217gr 40 gr
44/40 marlin ..................217gr 40gr
44 Game Getter ..............115gr 34 gr (looks like a round ball load)
all listed for winchester rifles

Blackpowder loads as above all $33.25 per 1000
Smokeless (jacketed SP) $42
44 model 92 special W.H.V. $47.25

some serious inflation from 1895
your price for 40-65-260 .......$33 per 1000
my price for 40-65-260 .......$62.75 per 1000

what price your book for a 24" rifle?

I have the August 1895 catalog
prices for a 24 inch octagonal barrel rifle
1892................$19.50
1973................$18
1886 26"..........$21

[Noah Zark]

38-55 for the Win. (sorry!)

Noah

[dverna]

Mine is not listed.

[Shawlerbrook]

Of the ones listed the 25 35 is my favorite.

[FergusonTO35]

.30 WCF all the way, got two Marlins and two Winchesters. I do want to get into .38-55 someday though.

[smkummer]

Yep, the practical side of me voted 30 WCF. It was close choice also for 32-20 as it was so popular then and advertised as a deer cartridge as well. Back then, there was a reduced load for 30-30 using what appears as 32-20 bullets in either 100-117 grain. That reduced load would kill a lot of stuff around the farm/ranch. I smile at that as that is exactly what I am doing today!

[Eddie Southgate]

Are you able to view the list in the poll?

Some it seems do not read a post before they start responding. Of the above listed I would pick the .38 WCF in the "92 , the .38-55 in the "94 and the .50-110-450 in the "86 . I think that would give the most well rounded batterie of rifles for what I would use them for. If I could absolutely only have one it would be an "86 in .45-90-300 Smokeless to split the difference since I think it would be easier to down load than the big .50 and I would not want that much power all the time. Were I alive in that period I would have moved to Alaska or the PNW area ahead of the libtards that have moved that way since so the smaller stuff would be marginal for a lot of the available hunting in those areas.

[Rick B]

Viewed the list associated with the poll. My favorite lever gun cartridge is not on the list. Indian Joe's preference for the 45-75 WCF is my favorite also. Winchester produced this Model until 1898.
Sitting Bull's 1876 sold at a Cowan Auction last month for 132,000.00 + auction fees. The rifle was in his cabin in 1890 when Tribal Police showed up to arrest him. He was shot and killed as a result of the attempted arrest.
Rick
PS The rifle was chambered in 45-75 WCF

[HWooldridge]

My great uncle was born in 1895 and my grandfather in 1902. They grew up shooting these guns throughout their youth and early adulthood. They both lived long lives and I was fortunate to have known both of them.

My grandfather's first rifle was an 1873 Winchester in 44-40 - I think his grandfather traded a box of horseshoes for that rifle. When he could afford something else, he bought an 1894 in 32-40 and used it until he was in his late 50's.

My great uncle always liked the 38-55 cartridge and had several rifles over his lifetime chambered for same. He had a couple of target guns, a drilling, and a couple of 1894 rifles.

I've always liked the 44-40 cartridge and probably would have picked a '92 in that caliber.

[indian joe]

Some it seems do not read a post before they start responding. Of the above listed I would pick the .38 WCF in the "92 , the .38-55 in the "94 and the .50-110-450 in the "86 . I think that would give the most well rounded batterie of rifles for what I would use them for. If I could absolutely only have one it would be an "86 in .45-90-300 Smokeless to split the difference since I think it would be easier to down load than the big .50 and I would not want that much power all the time. Were I alive in that period I would have moved to Alaska or the PNW area ahead of the libtards that have moved that way since so the smaller stuff would be marginal for a lot of the available hunting in those areas.

I read it - absorbed it - understood it even - but then - i got a bit of an obstreperous streak in me -- how come my favourite cartridge aint on that list ? question was "what is your favourite leveraction cartridge listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog" were it not ???? I couldnt imagine they would not have listed the 45/75 - turns out they did -- none of which is a problem we sposed to be here to have fun not terrorise each other over technicalities.

If the question hadda been "what is your favourite leveraction cartridge from on this list ?" I woulda had no argue at all (there been plenty of lists like that)

[Savvy Jack]

I read it - absorbed it - understood it even - but then - i got a bit of an obstreperous streak in me -- how come my favourite cartridge aint on that list ? question was "what is your favourite leveraction cartridge listed in Winchester's 1895 catalog" were it not ???? I couldnt imagine they would not have listed the 45/75 - turns out they did -- none of which is a problem we sposed to be here to have fun not terrorise each other over technicalities.

If the question hadda been "what is your favourite leveraction cartridge from on this list ?" I woulda had no argue at all (there been plenty of lists like that)

What I would like to know is why is the Winchester Model 76 not even mentioned in the August 1885 catalog.

[Rick B]

Winchester produced no 1876's in 1895. The last ten years or so they manufactured less than 400 cleanup rifles total. 4 of those ten years they produced no 1876's at all. Once the modern designed 1886 arrived it was all over for the Model 1876. However both Winchester and UMC made ammo for the 45-75 until the early Depression years. I have both Models and prefer to load and shoot the
Model 1876 in 45-75 WCF.
Rick

[Savvy Jack]

Winchester produced no 1876's in 1895. The last ten years or so they manufactured less than 400 cleanup rifles total. 4 of those ten years they produced no 1876's at all. Once the modern designed 1886 arrived it was all over for the Model 1876. However both Winchester and UMC made ammo for the 45-75 until the early Depression years. I have both Models and prefer to load and shoot the
Model 1876 in 45-75 WCF.
Rick

Thanks Rick!

[Savvy Jack]

Found it hiding in plain view on page 83
301900

[indian joe]

Winchester produced no 1876's in 1895. The last ten years or so they manufactured less than 400 cleanup rifles total. 4 of those ten years they produced no 1876's at all. Once the modern designed 1886 arrived it was all over for the Model 1876. However both Winchester and UMC made ammo for the 45-75 until the early Depression years. I have both Models and prefer to load and shoot the
Model 1876 in 45-75 WCF.
Rick

Rick
I have both models also and likewise prefer the 76 ---maybe down the track a bit that will change (I doubt it) what is most likely is it will get shortened some - back to the same length as the 86? - I am a 48 vintage and 5'8" not getting myself enough excercise - that 76 is heavy to shoot offhand has a lot of weight out in the front with a full magazine where the 86 is more balanced in both hands (they are almost identical weight empty).

[indian joe]

Found it hiding in plain view on page 83
301900

Bryan is that catalog an original? its in seriously good order if so!

[square butte]

Let us not forget the 1876 was also produced in 50-95 Express. Doesn't look like that one is there either

[barnetmill]

The 30 Winchester Center Fire is really the only one of the choices that is just about as popular then as it is now if I disregard the cowboy action shooters that still have 44-40s, but even they are going to the historically incorrect .45 colt round for their lever guns.
I purchased a '94 years ago in part because I figured the gun banners would never ban the 1894 rifle in 30-30. This thread reminds that it needs be taken out and fed. I also need to work on the magazine tube etc to get it to shoot better. A lever gun can be set up to shoot well. I saw someone with a very old marlin that was a family heirloom put three handloads at 100 yards into a one inch group. So some lever guns can shoot.

[Savvy Jack]

Let us not forget the 1876 was also produced in 50-95 Express. Doesn't look like that one is there either

Page 87, Hollowpoint, for the Winchester Express Rifle, but the 76' Leveraction is not available in the 1895 catalog, I was not clear on that in the Poll title...but in the poll list, the Model 1876 and Express is not listed.

[Savvy Jack]

The 30 Winchester Center Fire is really the only one of the choices that is just about as popular then as it is now if I disregard the cowboy action shooters that still have 44-40s, but even they are going to the historically incorrect .45 colt round for their lever guns.
I purchased a '94 years ago in part because I figured the gun banners would never ban the 1894 rifle in 30-30. This thread reminds that it needs be taken out and fed. I also need to work on the magazine tube etc to get it to shoot better. A lever gun can be set up to shoot well. I saw someone with a very old marlin that was a family heirloom put three handloads at 100 yards into a one inch group. So some lever guns can shoot.

Correct, how about 40 44-40 rounds in a 4" circle at 100 yards and 37 hits in a 26" group at 265 yards?
1,350fps, 11 degree impact trajectory, 951fps impact velocity (same as revolver at 10 feet).

That's my ugly mug, so how about no Liberal human target comments hehehehe!

Uberti Winchester 73' w/ 6X Malcolm scope (it is about the accuracy of the cartridge, not the shooter's skills...or lack there-of). Compare those hits with Swiss sharpshooter's 250 yard Model 1866 44 Henry hits during the 1866 Swiss trials in Switzerland and John Kort's black powder 44 Henry 1,125fps ballistics hits at 250 yards.
25.932" Group
9.346 MOA
301920

First ten shots, target #2, before scope adjustment for next 30 consecutive shots on target #3
1.646" Group
1.572 MOA
301922

Last 30 shots, target #3, Black dots represent first 10 shots from previous target #2, AFTER scope adjustment
3.367" Group
3.216 MOA
301921
301923
301924

[Pereira]

Nice.

RP

[barnetmill]

Correct, how about 40 44-40 rounds in a 4" circle at 100 yards and 37 hits in a 26" group at 265 yards?
1,350fps, 11 degree impact trajectory, 951fps impact velocity (same as revolver at 10 feet).

That's my ugly mug, so how about no Liberal human target comments hehehehe!

Uberti Winchester 73' w/ 6X Malcolm scope (it is about the accuracy of the cartridge, not the shooter's skills...or lack there-of). Compare those hits with Swiss sharpshooter's 250 yard Model 1866 44 Henry hits during the 1866 Swiss trials in Switzerland and John Kort's black powder 44 Henry 1,125fps ballistics hits at 250 yards.
25.932" Group
9.346 MOA
301920

First ten shots, target #2, before scope adjustment for next 30 consecutive shots on target #3
1.646" Group
1.572 MOA
301922

Last 30 shots, target #3, Black dots represent first 10 shots from previous target #2, AFTER scope adjustment
3.367" Group
3.216 MOA
301921
301923
301924

Did have to do any work on these guns first or were they good to go from the beginning. I have a short barrel '94 that is all over the place.

[Savvy Jack]

Did have to do any work on these guns first or were they good to go from the beginning. I have a short barrel '94 that is all over the place.

No work, all stock.

My powder of choice for such groups is Reloder 7 and Accurate Mold's 43-214A bullet mold. Although John Kort's 43-215C is equal.
https://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15#catalog-anchor

Both are modified Lyman 427098 designs. John incorporated a large lube groove for black powder and a crimp groove. I designed the 43-214A to give a better O'give for use specifically with the Redding profile crimp die.
301934
301935
301936

[indian joe]

Winchester produced no 1876's in 1895. The last ten years or so they manufactured less than 400 cleanup rifles total. 4 of those ten years they produced no 1876's at all. Once the modern designed 1886 arrived it was all over for the Model 1876. However both Winchester and UMC made ammo for the 45-75 until the early Depression years. I have both Models and prefer to load and shoot the
Model 1876 in 45-75 WCF.
Rick

Rick
I tried to attach this to pm but could'nt figure it out
302001
ten at 100yards with the 1876 Uberti, blackpowder and the CBE boolit shown - about the best I have done with it - tang sight and '48 vintage eyes at their limit - would like to scope the thing and wring that barrel right out but too much dollars and too much trouble

[Rick B]

Who needs a scope, when you can shoot ten shot groups like that. Outstanding group! Thats a good looking bullet by the way.
Rick

[ElCheapo]

30 WCF. I was shooting at my local range the other day and I noticed a guy shooting a model 94. A while later he ends up giving me 2 boxes of once fired Federal brass for free. 'Nuff said. Besides, what animal on this continent hasn't been cleanly harvested by the 30-30 a thousand times over? Plus it's a great cast bullet shooter too. No brainer for me!

[indian joe]

Who needs a scope, when you can shoot ten shot groups like that. Outstanding group! Thats a good looking bullet by the way.
Rick

Not a regular occurrence mate! Burn enough powder and occasionally the planets align
The boolit is a Cast Bullet Engineering 460-535-PB - I got him to shorten it by one band and lube groove, it drops right on the diameter and mid 460 grain weight - they make a quality brass mold and with exchange rates where they are now would be super cheap for you fellers - $120 AUD plus freight - I reckon you would land one for less than his list in your money (unless shipping has got a lot more stupid than I realise) .

[Mountain Meadow]

25-20 wcf in my button mag 92 src..could not get used to the clunky action of the 1894's and have had several. Stocked up on 75 grainers when they became available.

Not listed .475 turnbull in their modified 1886. slick as grease and the .475 runs Trail Boss through 4064.

Going to try casting 420 lfns' for the 475 and a ~75 gr all lead bullet for the 25-20 if I can find a mould.