How Many Shots Is Enough for Concealed Carry?

[Daekar]

I have been mulling over some of the new gun options out there and have found that there is a huge spread of magazine capacity across guns that folks carry for concealable protection. I have a J-frame which holds 5 shots of 357mag and another that holds 8 shots of 22LR, and those capacities are pretty darn small compared to a lot of other thing out there. However, just because I've started paying attention to a perceived deficiency in my guns doesn't mean that there is an actual deficiency - that is, just because they don't hold much doesn't necessarily mean they don't hold enough to do their jobs.

So... with the full knowledge that there is no single right answer for every person and every situation, how many rounds is "enough" for you? No reloads allowed, what the gun holds is what you get, and the number is independent of cartridge because we're assuming that you've chosen a cartridge that you judge sufficient for the task. Why did you choose the number you did?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

So... with the full knowledge that there is no single right answer for every person and every situation, how many rounds is "enough" for you? No reloads allowed, what the gun holds is what you get, and the number is independent of cartridge because we're assuming that you've chosen a cartridge that you judge sufficient for the task. Why did you choose the number you did?

Honestly, this says it all, doesn't it? You can't be right for every situation all of the time. "No reloads" makes you want to
have the highest capacity possible (like a 32 round extended magazine) but concealment dictates otherwise. It has to be
a compromise. I'll go with 7+1 in .45 ACP.

DG

[Winger Ed.]

Something I ran across awhile back was an FBI statistic where they found that the national
average was for all the times where a licensed concealed carry person fired a handgun,
it averaged out to five shots fired for every four instances.
That's just shots fired, it doesn't account for misses or non fatal injuries.

That's 1.25 shots per case.
There is not really any way to know how many times a good guy drew down on a bad guy,
but didn't shoot.

I wouldn't have any problem with it, but you need to decide for your self if a five shot revolver is 'good enough'.
Personally; I don't go to 'da hood', and don't think I'll ever get pinned down in a fire fight at the grocery store.

I feel pretty good with a O/U Derringer with two Hornady .410 shells that each carry two OOO balls and a 110gr .357JHP
It's big enough to be intimidating, and flat enough to disappear in your pocket.
When it fires, out comes basically three shots not too different than three shots from a small .38Spec.

[LabGuy]

I voted 5, because I carry J frames from time time, like right now. But I think a better question is acceptable total rounds, including reloads.

[414gates]

A large caliber derringer is fine for low risk areas.

Otherwise, the more rounds it takes and the bigger the caliber, the better.

Addendum :

Everybody's idea of concealed carry is built up around their personal situation, and there is a big variation person to person.

If you live in a neighborhood where the homes are not behind walls or fences, that is one situation.

If you live in a place where home invasions and murders are common, that is another situation.

There is a lot in between, so there cannot be one concealed carry solution for all.

[45workhorse]

Enough shots to neutralize the threat......IF you have to fire.

Shot placement is everything!

[megasupermagnum]

The obvious answer is 1 is the minimum required. 1 is infinitely better than 0. A muzzleloading pistol is better than nothing at all.

[RogerDat]

The whole statistic on gun in the home more likely to kill an occupant than an intruder is based on occupant suicide vs the extremly low instances of intruders staying to be shot at (0 fatalities) intruder driven off. Followed by shot fired in general direction of intruder but a clean miss (0 fatalities). Then there are the the few times an intruder is shot at, hit, but not fatally (0 fatalities) And after all of these subsets of intruder/bad guy confrontation are eliminated one has a tiny fraction of one percent of confrontations that involve an intruder shot and killed (1 fatality).

As applies to this discussion my guess is confrontations in the outside world follow much the same pattern. The largest subset is intruder leaves without shots fired. With few situations involving multiple shots. I guess real world the hit to miss ratio might improve if one wasn't awakened in the middle of the night in a dark house and trying to conduct a firefight in ones BVD's assuming one doesn't sleep commando which I'm going to assume wouldn't make it easier.

I would assume for carry the old detective standard of 5 in the gun and 2 reloads for a total of 15 would be sufficient. I can't think of many situations in public where the rapid shooting and spraying cover fire in an area with innocent bystanders would be appropriate. Worst case I can think of is trying to hold off an attacker and I'm willing to wait until they decide I'm out of ammo or reloading and advance to prove them wrong. Your move, my hallway. Which is how I view my home defense situation. Bedroom is at end of hallway. Wife is on phone to 911 and you have to enter that hallway to do us harm so...

Nice 5 shot revolves is aces in my book. Although the 45 acp "why shoot twice" idea has some merit out in the world, it is a bit noisy for indoors. :-)

[imashooter2]

5 in my Model 38 Airweight. Are there situations where it might prove inadequate? Sure. But an M38 is easy and convenient, and therefore always available.

"If I thought there was going to be trouble, I’d bring a shotgun."

[HWooldridge]

You can have anything you want at home - I kept a 44-40 lever action '92 Winchester in the corner of our bedroom for a lot of years and never felt undergunned.

Out in public, I carry a S&W Airweight in .38 Special. The primary reason I like it is the weight and small size. Many other sidearms are just too bulky to conceal unless I can wear a jacket - and that's usually only 2-3 months out of the year around these parts. I'm more likely to be in shorts and T-shirt most of the time.

I carried a standard 1911 in 45 when I was a younger man but it's just slightly too heavy to be comfortable every day.

[stubshaft]

I voted for five also as I carry either a J frame or my Kahr CM-40.

[DougGuy]

I used an aftermarket flat bottom mag in the Kahr CW45, I think it carries 7 and one in the pipe. I have reloads accessible in my vehicles as it will gladly accept and feed with 7 and 8 round 1911 mags, you just have to have the slide shut when you shove the mag in and it works great.

There are too many scenarios to cover all the bases with one EDC sidearm, so you cover the scenarios that you are most vulnerable, most at risk.

[Froogal]

I carry a Smith and Wesson .38 air weight, so that is 5 shots, but there are 20 more rounds in my pocket.

[BLAHUT]

Practice, practice, practice, carry the bigest you can shoot with and hit what you are aming at accuratly> then you will only need one shot. Maybe a seckond to remove any doubt.

[dverna]

I carry a Glock in part due to its high capacity. Better to have more shots and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

I also carry a Kahr but always have a spare magazine for it.

A 5 shot revolver is probably enough 98% of the time, but that 2% might bite me in the butt.

[Half Dog]

I carry 4 rounds. I don’t need to carry the extra weight of extended magazines plus I’m usually amongst innocent people. When I’m driving through the desert, that is a different story.

[bedbugbilly]

I also answered 5 because I used to and still do carry my S & W 36 J Frame. However, given today's "issues" and wintering in AZ about 40 miles from the border, I normally carry my Glock 26 just for the peace of mind of having 10 rounds, or 10 + 1 - especially if we are on less traveled roads or more remote areas - and yes, I also carry a spare magazine. I carry OWB and have a very comfortable leather holster with a spare mag pouch on the front - under a shirt tail or jacket it's an easy carry and doesn't;t print.

A simpler answer though, would be that everyone is different and a person should practice on a regular basis and carry what makes them comfortable as far as rounds go and hope that they will never have to find out.

[M-Tecs]

Before the 2020 riots my answer would have been 5. Today it's 12 + 1 and at least one 15 round spare mag.

Some good discussion on the parrel thread here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?444319-Dance-with-the-one-you-brought&p=5424114#post5424114

[Shanghai Jack]

The obvious answer is 1 is the minimum required. 1 is infinitely better than 0. A muzzleloading pistol is better than nothing at all.


back in the early sixties we were on our way home from the river bottoms where we were doing some plinking with black powder. We pulled into the gas station and the attendant was standing there with his hands up. Being young and stupid we piled out of the car with a muzzle loading shotgun and a flintlock horse pistol (both unloaded as it turned out) and proceeded to hold the robber for the police. They came and took him away and laughed their behinds off about the weapons we used to foil the robbery. Wouldn't do it again and probably should have done it then but . . . I guess looking down the bore of a 69 caliber sewer pipe pistol is intimidating.

[beemer]

Airweight 638, so 5 shots. Carry a speed strip with 5 and a snake shot in a nylon knife case with a small Stream Lite clipped on the side. I carry inside the waistband appendix, comfortable for me and accessible while setting.

I chased my tail for years and tried a good many types and calibers. I finally decided on the J-frame Airweight for most of my carry. It is easy to carry, reliable and safe.

[Daekar]

back in the early sixties we were on our way home from the river bottoms where we were doing some plinking with black powder. We pulled into the gas station and the attendant was standing there with his hands up. Being young and stupid we piled out of the car with a muzzle loading shotgun and a flintlock horse pistol (both unloaded as it turned out) and proceeded to hold the robber for the police. They came and took him away and laughed their behinds off about the weapons we used to foil the robbery. Wouldn't do it again and probably should have done it then but . . . I guess looking down the bore of a 69 caliber sewer pipe pistol is intimidating.
You know, there are many reasons I love this forum, but this is one of those things... you can't go just anywhere and find people this awesome.

[rintinglen]

The contents of the gun, plus one reload.

[Bigslug]

Lowest acceptable number? 5 is a good number for walking to the mailbox when you aren't expecting trouble as it's definitely good for one attacker and will certainly allow you to soften up more. But NOT carrying a reload for whatever you're carrying is a bad call IMO.

Obviously, when the ferals are looting and burning en masse, the casual convenience of the little J-frame or PPK ceases to be the most desirable attribute.

[Daekar]

Obviously, when the ferals are looting and burning en masse, the casual convenience of the little J-frame or PPK ceases to be the most desirable attribute.
Haha, yes, that's when the rifles start to come out. There is no scenario in my life at the moment where I would do anything except get away from the rioters and let them burn whatever urban hole they're throwing their tantrums in, so the likelihood of needing anything except the little gun is pretty small. If we ever have rioters out here in the country, something has gone horriblly wrong!

[jonp]

I'm surprised at the number of people that picked the same number I did. Chief's 38sp with 5 140gr WC's. If you need more, imho, you have gotten yourself into something you should have avoided at all costs.

Obviously, when the ferals are looting and burning en masse, the casual convenience of the little J-frame or PPK ceases to be the most desirable attribute.

Why are you in a place where looting, burning and rioting are taking place? If your home or place of business is located there and that is going on I don't think a handgun is what you would be holding if you have any sense.

I would also care to hear the 19+ vote. You carrying a machine gun concealed? I think he/she must be referencing spare mags.

[Jtarm]

You can have anything you want at home - I kept a 44-40 lever action '92 Winchester in the corner of our bedroom for a lot of years and never felt undergunned.

The best way to use a pistol is to fight your way to a long gun.

[JSnover]

It really depends on where you are, why you're there, and why you carry in the first place. I don't live or work in a dangerous area and if a riot breaks out in one of the nearby cities I don't intend to go check it out. I carry a gun to get myself OUT of trouble, not INTO it. In my specific case five is enough.

[sharps4590]

As with jonp, I was surprised to see the number who also chose 5. As has been stated, where you live and the places you frequent often determine what you think is adequate. I'm also a revolver guy and dearly love my S&W 696, which happens to be a 5 shooter. So is my 50's era Mod. 36. For where I live and what I do, more often than not one, or at most two shots has been more than ample. As others have stated, if there's a riot going on in the nearest city, over 100 miles away, I ain't goin' down there to check it out. In the less than likely occurrence they should show up out here, rifles are close and, I'm old enough prison doesn't much scare me so the rule is, as my late Father always opined, "shoot first and ask questions later."

[Wayne Smith]

I voted six, but that's because I have a Colt Agent that holds six rather than five.

[Daekar]

I would also care to hear the 19+ vote. You carrying a machine gun concealed? I think he/she must be referencing spare mags.

I can only imagine that they're referencing something like the new Sig P322, which holds 20+1. I have to admit, as suspect as 22LR can be, that's a lot of very controllable power in a package about the size of a 3" J-frame. If primers don't come down in price, I can see a lot more folks carrying 22LR, especially the new SD-specific ammo. Hell, I might do it...

[Daekar]

As with jonp, I was surprised to see the number who also chose 5. As has been stated, where you live and the places you frequent often determine what you think is adequate. I'm also a revolver guy and dearly love my S&W 696, which happens to be a 5 shooter. So is my 50's era Mod. 36. For where I live and what I do, more often than not one, or at most two shots has been more than ample. As others have stated, if there's a riot going on in the nearest city, over 100 miles away, I ain't goin' down there to check it out. In the less than likely occurrence they should show up out here, rifles are close and, I'm old enough prison doesn't much scare me so the rule is, as my late Father always opined, "shoot first and ask questions later."

I'm surprised at the number that chosen 5 so far as well. I wonder how much this is a result of the unique demographics and perspectives of our community? I suspect that the same poll presented elsewhere, say a forum with more armchair commandos, might have different results.

[Kraschenbirn]

I went with 8 as a minimum 'cause I sometimes carry a LW Commander in .45 ACP without topping off the Wilson mag after chambering the first round. Lately though, I've begun to really favor my SIG 365 with it's 12-round capacity.

Bill

[HWooldridge]

The best way to use a pistol is to fight your way to a long gun.

Amen brother, preach it…

[Handloader109]

Whatever your carry gun will hold. And a spare mag or speed loader... I've a kimber micro and is 6+1 minimum, 8+1 extended. Or a PPQ with 15+1 or a s&w shield ez with 8+1. Or an 8 refund taurus revolver. If I could figure out a holster, 34 rounds of 22lr in a keltec p33

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[wv109323]

I have read that 99% of shootings end when 1 shot is placed in the abdomen or head regardless of caliber. So the right number depends upon"how good you are".

[1006]

As many as I can carry and keep it concealed. Most of the time out among the public that is 5.

[GhostHawk]

I own a pair of NAA revolvers, both 5 shot in .22mag.

Either of them would likely be my first choice for carry because of their small size and weight.

I have a Beretta 81 in .32acp with 12 rounds per mag, and the holster holds a second mag.
But it is bigger, bulkier, heavier by far than the little NAA revolvers.

I could slip one in each front pocket and still feel secure about my pants not falling off. The Beretta or any of my other bigger pistols seem to feel like any moment my pants might slide to my ankles.

For my needs 5 would be enough.

[downzero]

The poll and the actual question are different. How many shots is enough for a given situation is hard to answer, but historically the number is something like 2. Certainly there are scenarios where something more than that would be preferable. I will also second or third or fifth the people above who carry J frames as I do regularly as well, and so 5 will have to do, that's what I voted for in the poll because I see no reason to carry anything smaller than that.

With that said, I carried my Shield today with the 7 round mag in it and more than a concern over capacity, I'd rather have an automatic on me because revolvers are harder for me to shoot, especially when needed quickly, and the cylinder's fat profile makes them less practical for iwb carry than a flat/thin automatic.

[megasupermagnum]

I didn't even vote since my vote is 1, so I did not see the results until now. There are two votes for 19+. Maybe they missed the underlined, and clearly stated "no reloads counted". Or maybe they really are shooting 19+ capacity handguns? I know the FN 5.7 holds 20, that was the selling point, and is a very cool gun. A quick search shows a Kel-Tec in 22 mag that holds 30, and I assume there are other 22 LR and 22 mag guns out there that are 19+. I'm not aware of any 9mm with a standard magazine of 19+, but there likely is one somewhere. Maybe these guys are carrying with extended magazines?

So to those that voted 19+, what are you shooting?

[JSnover]

The best way to use a pistol is to fight your way to a long gun.

If you need to. If I'm carrying concealed I'm not at home.
Having theoretically fought my way out of some place, I should probably either report the shooting or just go home but there probably won't be a good reason for me to get a better weapon and go back for more.

[Tazman1602]

I voted 8 because that’s what my Kimber 45 holds BUT I carry a Bond arms derringer in 410 loaded with Hornady critical defense (a 41 FTX with three shotgun balls behind it) which would give me time to get to my “real” gun….

Art

[MostlyLeverGuns]

My plain old Springfield XD-m carries 20, 19+1 and carries like a 1911. One or two is better than none, the little 2-shot break open derringers are better than a bare hand. We carry 5 around the farm j-frame, bulldog .44 or Taurus 45 Colt(NOT a Judge). Carry an 7+1 shot Shield in town 2 spare 8-shot mags for balance. All those extra bullets, 15 45's in my Para 1911, 20 9mm's in the XD-m add weight, everyday all day long on foot, they get heavy, horseback or vehicle, they are fine. More bullets is better, but you do have to carry them when fixing fence, digging post holes, whatever. Mossberg pumps live in the trucks, usually a rifle, .223, .243, 30-30. Sheriff/law enforcement normally 20 minutes to an hour so...

[murf205]

I never talked to anybody that had been in a gun fight that wished they had less rounds! 8 for me.

[M-Tecs]

A friend of mine is a high level mixed martial arts competitor. Two guys tried to rob him and his girlfriend. One had a revolver and the other had a knife. The one with the gun ended up with a broken knee and the one with the knife ended up with a broken arm. My friend was unarmed except for his mixed martial arts skills so in his case zero was the right number of rounds.

On the other end of the spectrum another friend was in Africa lion hunting. His guide was taking him back to the airport when they were attacked a rest stop by 4 armed robbers. The two that were attempting to rob them were killed by the guide at close range. There was another one at about 30 meters that got hit solid enough to take him out of the fight. The 4th was 56 meters away behind their getaway vehicle. The last one was the driver of the getaway car 56 meters away. He opted to get out and start shooting. He was rewarded with a bullet in the brain. The guide was resting his last shot on his own vehicle, but he only fired one shot at the 56-yard shooter.

The police had a real hard time believing the last shot. They thought the guide walked up to him and shot him in the head. However, all the witnesses confirmed it went down as claimed. The guide had a tricked out 1911. He made his last shot out of the second mag. The yardage or meterage was actual police measured distances. Total round count for the guide to take out 4-armed robbers shooting at him was 10 or 11 shots. Only one of the two close range armed robber managed to get a shot off.

[Outpost75]

At age 74 I'm not going hands-on with any dirt bags and my normal routine is to avoid places where stupid people congregate to do stupid things. Like Wayne Smith my warm weather EDC is a .38 Special Colt Agent with Parkerized finish, 2-inch barrel, service stocks and Tyler T-grip, which weighs a pound. In warm weather it is loaded with six rounds of Winchester 110-grain Silvertip non +P. In fall and winter I carry full charge wadcutter in the gun. At all times I carry a reload with Tuff Strip or HKS 10-A speedloader of seasonal carry ammo. In cooler weather when wearing a coat EDC is a steel-frame 3" Colt Detective Special loaded with 130- grain Winchester Ranger RA38B bonded core HP as primary and the Agent with full charge wadcutter is carried as "New York Reload."

I do not like the 5-shot S&W J-frames because they don't fit my hand and I don't shoot them well enough. My 6-shot Colt D-frames can share speed loaders with the spare 4-inch or 6-inch S&W k-frames commonly carried with lead Winchester X38SPD or Remington R38S12 FBI load in my travel bag or Get Home ruck. Spare ammo in ruck is 100 rounds of full charge wadcutter and ten Speer No.9 shot, which can be used in any of the several wheelguns carried on the road.

"Six For Sure" is how I was taught.

[auto5man]

I'm surprised at the number of people that picked the same number I did. Chief's 38sp with 5 140gr WC's. If you need more, imho, you have gotten yourself into something you should have avoided at all costs.

Obviously, when the ferals are looting and burning en masse, the casual convenience of the little J-frame or PPK ceases to be the most desirable attribute.

Why are you in a place where looting, burning and rioting are taking place? If your home or place of business is located there and that is going on I don't think a handgun is what you would be holding if you have any sense.

I would also care to hear the 19+ vote. You carrying a machine gun concealed? I think he/she must be referencing spare mags.

Nope, not a machine gun (and I voted for 5 with a j frame centennial, btw), HOWEVER, for those that voted for 19....the Springfield XDM9 holds 19+1. So for those who carry one of those, if you add two back up mags...that's 58 rounds at your disposal on your belt. Its an impressively potent package. I've just found for practical concealed carry...I go smaller.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

With that Springfield XDm with 19+1, I have a couple 32 round mags that work, but all that ammo does get heavy carrying it on person. I have a couple 20 rounders for my P14-45 1911's, again carry ammo gets heavy. I really don't go anywhere that SHOULD be dangerous, usually home before dark, so the smaller lighter pistols, Shield 9mm, XDs 45, Bulldog 44 usually get carried, with two reloads.

[fastdadio]

I voted 4 because 2 was not an option, and I often do carry a 9mm Derringer. I'm comfortable with the Derringer because my perceived threat level is very low where I live. My town has next to zero crime and there is no gang activity for 40 miles in any direction.
My carry pistols are listed in order of size only with no consideration to power or capacity;
9mm Derringer, Ruger Lc9 7+1, Ruger 3" Speed Six 357, S&W m915, 9mm, 15+1, Colt Combat Commander, 45acp 7+1.
Pops said to me years ago, that the weather/occasion dictates dress, dress dictates level of concealment. Type of dress may have to be modified depending on perceived threat level.
I will admit, as much as I love my 1911, the S&W has pretty much bumped it out of rotation simply because it's similar in size but weighs less and carries moar ammoes.

[44MAG#1]

I was going to say something but decided against it.
No sense in getting people upset.

[Daekar]

I was going to say something but decided against it.
No sense in getting people upset.

Well now I'm curious!

[Jedman]

I didn’t vote because 2 is what I would have voted as the minimum. I have a Bond Arms roughneck in 45 ACP and even though I don’t carry it or any other handgun I feel it would be enough to stop 99 % of any threat I might encounter while out somewhere away from home.

Jedman

[jonp]

Nope, not a machine gun (and I voted for 5 with a j frame centennial, btw), HOWEVER, for those that voted for 19....the Springfield XDM9 holds 19+1. So for those who carry one of those, if you add two back up mags...that's 58 rounds at your disposal on your belt. Its an impressively potent package. I've just found for practical concealed carry...I go smaller.

Of course, i wasnt thinking of that.

[Fishman]

The latest XDM elite in 9mm holds 21+1, and if you are generously sized, you could conceal and carry it.

[Good Cheer]

Five.
And yeah, I need to practice more.

[Daekar]

Five.
And yeah, I need to practice more.
Me too! The shortages mean that I haven't been practicing with my J-frames at all for over a year, and when I got them out for a July 4th splurge things were pretty ugly with the 357...

Makes me feel like I should carry the 22LR until I can practice more.

[gwpercle]

350 - 400 rounds .... I want to give them the whole 9 yards .
Gary

[Geezer in NH]

Depends. 32 Kel-Tec 8 in gun 7 in spare mag, 642 S&W 5 in gun 6 in Bianchi strip,
Glock 26 11 in gun, 17 in G17 magazine.

I do not ever carry an auto without a spare mag, I do what I am trained to do.

[Divil]

5. Some carry a j frame or similar 5 shot snubby. I would want more but a 5 shot .38 readily available beats a fully loaded G17 at home. Hope those that carry those little revolvers carry at least 1 reload.

[downzero]

5. Some carry a j frame or similar 5 shot snubby. I would want more but a 5 shot .38 readily available beats a fully loaded G17 at home. Hope those that carry those little revolvers carry at least 1 reload.

I usually do, but realistically, you're not going to ever have a chance to reload a j frame in a situation like this. That sort of fantasy only happens in the movies (aka, Billy Rosewood in Beverly Hills Cop).

[shooting on a shoestring]

As a frequent carrier of a small revolver I also carry an additional reload in either a speed strip or speed loader.

I seriously doubt I’ll ever need to reload it in the middle of a fire fight. I do seriously think I’d want to top-off immediately after a fire fight.

I can’t imagine being comfortable with a nearly empty gun waiting for the cops to arrive. I can’t imagine thinking “ Ok the shooting has stopped so I won’t be needing a loaded gun now. I’ll just stroll around and admire the scenery while waiting for the cops to come over”.

No I’m pretty sure I’d REALLY want to stay well armed. But I hope I’m never in that situation!

[Hickok]

I guess 5 when carrying my S&W Airweight....10 when wearing the Glock 48...and 12 when I have the Sig P365XL.

[Good Cheer]

Five it is.
As everyone knows a .41 Colt is a man stopper :rolleyes:so a .41 Magnum five shot must be enough.
Besides, it's easy to hit with.

[Jtarm]

Five it is.
As everyone knows a .41 Colt is a man stopper :rolleyes:

Someone must’ve forgotten to send me the memo.

[Greg S]

I said 5. Ain't kicking doors no more. Said 5 but DC is either a model 65, G19 or a 1911. If passing shady area and might get delaid, an extra reload or 2 or a NY J frame.

[Texas by God]

One?[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220712/72afb0fdb2b9520537bc590942a8a0ec.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[RJM52]

...any gun is better than no gun....

I have talked with several internationally known trainers most of whom carry a primary, backup and 1-3 extra mags for each...and sometimes 1-3 knives...REALLY....

Want to see reality...check out the robbery and gun fight videos on YouTube and LiveLeak...(Active Self Protection has tons of them from all over the world)..that's reality. When you watch a video ask yourself if you could have survived with your current carry system.

Everyone concentrates on the Hardware aspect of self protection. The Software, mindset, tactics, training, awareness, are what's going to keep you out of the gunfight in the first place and help you prevail if you do get that far...

Bob

[fastdadio]

One?[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220712/72afb0fdb2b9520537bc590942a8a0ec.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Show us more... Looks like a right proper truck gun to me.

[Texas by God]

[emoji16] It requires a real big pocket or a shirt tail to conceal it. The belt clip comes in handy, though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220716/3698d70ddcf003811cef990e76e3dc56.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[fastdadio]

[emoji16] It requires a real big pocket or a shirt tail to conceal it. The belt clip comes in handy, though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220716/3698d70ddcf003811cef990e76e3dc56.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Yah, a bit much to conceal. But, an excellent truck gun. I love it. Very nice!

[Daekar]

[emoji16] It requires a real big pocket or a shirt tail to conceal it. The belt clip comes in handy, though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220716/3698d70ddcf003811cef990e76e3dc56.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

I love it! Wish the current crop of CCW pistols was half as pretty.

[Jtarm]

...any gun is better than no gun....

I have talked with several internationally known trainers most of whom carry a primary, backup and 1-3 extra mags for each...and sometimes 1-3 knives...REALLY....

Want to see reality...check out the robbery and gun fight videos on YouTube and LiveLeak...(Active Self Protection has tons of them from all over the world)..that's reality. When you watch a video ask yourself if you could have survived with your current carry system.

Everyone concentrates on the Hardware aspect of self protection. The Software, mindset, tactics, training, awareness, are what's going to keep you out of the gunfight in the first place and help you prevail if you do get that far...

Bob

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

For civilian SD, there’s < 2% chance you’ll need more than 5.

[CZbob9]

I find myself more and more looking at trying to have a minimum of 15 on hand. If you would have asked me this 15 years ago I would say 5 is plenty. But with the current world I would rather be ready for anything just about then fall short.

[Tokarev]

It depends on who the carrier has to defend themselves against.
In Eastern Europe it is not unheard of for teams of up to 4 assassins armed with semi-auto handguns to lay in wait for their victim. The best defense in that case is a 15+ round double-stack semi-auto.
In the US most defensive shooters fire 1-2 rounds before the assailant flees or is incapacitated.
Police begs to differ and dumps whole mags, as we can see from the recent videos. But they are professionals and we are unwashed masses, so we are not allowed to judge them.

[Winger Ed.]

In Eastern Europe it is not unheard of for teams of up to 4 assassins armed with semi-auto handguns to lay in wait for their victim. The best defense in that case is a 15+ round double-stack semi-auto..

In that neighborhood--
The conditions and the greatly reduced gene pool left after WWII has produced some really tough characters.
There probably is very little chance of surviving something like that, no matter what you have on hand.

[Tokarev]

There probably is very little chance of surviving something like that, no matter what you have on hand.
True. Just trying to quantify the threat level in terms of rounds. [smilie=s:

[armoredman]

After the Indiana mall shooting, 10+ seems reasonable!

[alamogunr]

I voted 6 because I lean toward revolvers or 1911's with only 7 round mags.

[Rapier]

Practice, practice, practice. Shot placement always beats fast noise. My first shot, is always what counts. have no idea which movie you watched that ever gave you the idea that the number of rounds expended has anything to do with anything at all, except getting yourself shot.
I try to never miss with the first shot, and every shot on the next target is the first shot.
If you practice you learn to squeeze the trigger quickly.

[Bigslug]

There is also the fatalistic way of looking at this.

Even if you have an infinite supply of ammunition, you only have one barrel to dispense it from, and you do not have an infinite amount of time to dispense it in. Give Wild Bill Hickok a Glock 17 with the 33 round Extend-O-Mag, and he'll still get outflanked and destroyed before he runs dry, assuming a sufficient supply of motivated "zombies".

In that context, the 8-10 rounds of the typical WWI-era autoloader isn't a bad place to apply the word "minimum". With that, you can either solve what's immediately in front of you with a round or two left in the mag, or be dead in your tracks. . .with a round or two left in the mag.

[Electrod47]

Look, its the same situation for any thoughtful person who keeps some spare batteries for his flashlight or never waits til the tank is empty to fill up. We also keep some sort of reserve handy. My carry gun has a full magazine and a spare handy. When with a revolver all cylinders full and a speed loader strip. If I were to think "Today, I'm heading for the OK Corral". Well, then, I would just stay home.

[rbuck351]

5 in the mag and one in the chamber plus a spare 7rd mag is what I use with my XDs in 45acp. More important though is can you stay calm in a shoot and make your first couple of shots good hits.

[rintinglen]

^^^^Indeed!
If we could tell the future, we'd know whether to buy life insurance now or later, marry this girl or that, which job to take and a host of other life choices which can be ill or beneficent could be made with confidence. But we can't.

However, in the awful chance where we get caught up in violence, having confidence in our skill and preparation can make all the difference. I consider 5 to be the minimum, as that is the capacity of the smallest guns I consider capable of service in the gravest extreme.

Actually, though, I consider that whatever the capacity of the gun, a reload is a good thing. It is very easy in the initial panic of the situation to shoot your gun empty. Being able to reload allows you to respond, should your assailant(s) resume hostilities.

[Rick R]

I voted “6” because I’m comfortable with a full size short barrel revolver AND at least two reloads. I don’t normally leave home without them.

For semiauto pistols 8 +1 and at least one reload is my minimum comfort level.

[DocSkinner]

The whole statistic on gun in the home more likely to kill an occupant than an intruder is based on occupant suicide vs the extremly low instances of intruders staying to be shot at (0 fatalities) intruder driven off. Followed by shot fired in general direction of intruder but a clean miss (0 fatalities). Then there are the the few times an intruder is shot at, hit, but not fatally (0 fatalities) And after all of these subsets of intruder/bad guy confrontation are eliminated one has a tiny fraction of one percent of confrontations that involve an intruder shot and killed (1 fatality).

As applies to this discussion my guess is confrontations in the outside world follow much the same pattern. The largest subset is intruder leaves without shots fired. With few situations involving multiple shots. I guess real world the hit to miss ratio might improve if one wasn't awakened in the middle of the night in a dark house and trying to conduct a firefight in ones BVD's assuming one doesn't sleep commando which I'm going to assume wouldn't make it easier.

I would assume for carry the old detective standard of 5 in the gun and 2 reloads for a total of 15 would be sufficient. I can't think of many situations in public where the rapid shooting and spraying cover fire in an area with innocent bystanders would be appropriate. Worst case I can think of is trying to hold off an attacker and I'm willing to wait until they decide I'm out of ammo or reloading and advance to prove them wrong. Your move, my hallway. Which is how I view my home defense situation. Bedroom is at end of hallway. Wife is on phone to 911 and you have to enter that hallway to do us harm so...

Nice 5 shot revolves is aces in my book. Although the 45 acp "why shoot twice" idea has some merit out in the world, it is a bit noisy for indoors. :-)



Actually, That study is incredibly biased, but not the way you think.
The study looked at all police reported instances of gun shots in a home. THEN it looked at how many of those the owner of the home was injured by gunfire. Its called cherry picking your data. What are the odds that if a gun fight happened in a house, a (legal) occupant of the home owned a gun? High crime areas, drug dealing, etc.,
So it is improper sample selection to predetermine outcome. The PROPER data set for that analysis is ALL GUN OWNERS, not just the ones that specifically for whatever reason had a shooting in their home. It is incredibly flawed science that never should have made it past peer review, other than it was a result the publication wanted to make a case for.

[FergusonTO35]

Practice, practice, practice. Shot placement always beats fast noise. My first shot, is always what counts. have no idea which movie you watched that ever gave you the idea that the number of rounds expended has anything to do with anything at all, except getting yourself shot.
I try to never miss with the first shot, and every shot on the next target is the first shot.
If you practice you learn to squeeze the trigger quickly.

This is how I roll. None of my CCW pieces are powerhouses, and I carry a .380 90% of the time. But all of them are reliable and accurate, and offer me the best possible chance for stopping the bad guy or at least hurting him enough to effect my escape. I also use plain 8.5x11 paper for targets. If I can quicly put them all in the center of that area then I am doing what I need to do.

[KCSO]

Unless you are a sworn officer you only need enough ammo to escape and be the worlds best witness. When I started out as an officer we carried 5 shot snubbie with 5 spare rounds and thought we were well armed. My current CCW is either a 6 shot snubbie or my Browning hi power as i can't shoot my 1911 as well due to Uncle Arthur. Remember your job is just to survive an armed encounter no to stop a robbery or fend off charging hordes. If you can put them where they need to go 5 or 6 will do it and if yuu can't mother nature will clean the gene pool.

[762 shooter]

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said they wish that they had less ammo after a gunfight.

43X with Shield Arms 15 round mag.

762

[david s]

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said they wish that they had less ammo after a gunfight.

43X with Shield Arms 15 round mag.

762
I haven't made the commitment to a 10 round Glock 48 with the 15 round Shield Arms magazines, still learning to trust it. But I'm definitely leaning that way. A surprisingly good little combination package.

https://i.postimg.cc/tgXrsPdk/IMG-2148.jpg (https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/c1vJYJ0c/IMG-2136.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[rintinglen]

I'm pretty sure no one has ever said they wish that they had less ammo after a gunfight.

43X with Shield Arms 15 round mag.

762

No, but there have been many sighs of relief when a shift ended and a 8 pound gun belt came off. Now more is more, that can't be disputed. But that is not what was asked.

The question was, "how many shots is enough for concealed carry;" not "how many is plenty". As I see it, it is a balancing act between the rest of your life, and being armed. Truth to tell, I'd be much better armed with an M-1 carbine and two or three 30 round mags. But that would make grocery shopping, purchasing gas and visiting the bank a bit sketchy. Not to mention being somewhat hard to conceal, unless I were to wear a poncho all the time like the Man with No Name in an Eastwood movie.

[44MAG#1]

After watching this thread and viewing the poll results, which show 5 rounds chosen by the majority it seems that there really is no answer that will suit most people. It parallels the Stopping Power threads of which there is never any consensus on.
I know no one will answer me but does it seem like some subjects are designed to be an open ended subject to which there will never be an answer?
Or am I mistaken again?

[johniv]

After watching this thread and viewing the poll results, which show 5 rounds chosen by the majority it seems that there really is no answer that will suit most people. It parallels the Stopping Power threads of which there is never any consensus on.
I know no one will answer me but does it seem like some subjects are designed to be an open ended subject to which there will never be an answer?
Or am I mistaken again?

Nailed it!/

[charlie b]

Yep :)

Some people consider they will enter a war zone, others a quilting bee, and everything in between.

It really is like fire extinguishers. Keep one of the little 'spray bombs' or a 20lb?

[Eddie Southgate]

I voted 5 because I carry a S&W model32 24/7 365 days a year now that I am retired and don't go to big cities on any regular basis . My load is right at 1000 fps with a GD 110 . Gives good penetration , classic mushroom and retains its weight. I can put five in the palm of my hand at 20 yards under stress. I have been in a few SD situations and the last one was settled with a .380 Winchester Silvertip. Never been in a Miami type shootout in this country and don't expect to be in one. One or two shots usually ends things one way or another, most thugs are cowards and get gone when they realize they don't have the only gun in the fight. I do carry two reloads on J strips just incase.

One of those situations was at home , the other two were in places I should have avoided to begin with but didn't. It's been over 30 years since I had to even show a gun , mostly because I learned to avoid situations I don't need to go in to. That said, bad things do happen in good places to be so I always carry and stay aware of what's going on around me .

[Eddie Southgate]

After watching this thread and viewing the poll results, which show 5 rounds chosen by the majority it seems that there really is no answer that will suit most people. It parallels the Stopping Power threads of which there is never any consensus on.
I know no one will answer me but does it seem like some subjects are designed to be an open ended subject to which there will never be an answer?
Or am I mistaken again?

100% correct. Everyone should carry what they are comfortable with, there is no one size fits all carry piece. Mine now is a J frame but I have carried 1911's, PPKs .380, Browning HP, Beretta 81BB, Kahr .40 and several large caliber revolvers. I carried what made me feel the most safe and well prepared at that particular time in the known situation I was going to be in. Regardless of what you carry, how well prepared mentally you are , how much you practice things can still go sideways . You just do the best you can with what you got at the time.

[Daekar]

After watching this thread and viewing the poll results, which show 5 rounds chosen by the majority it seems that there really is no answer that will suit most people. It parallels the Stopping Power threads of which there is never any consensus on.
I know no one will answer me but does it seem like some subjects are designed to be an open ended subject to which there will never be an answer?
Or am I mistaken again?

Yep, this is what I expected when I asked. However, the data did not fall anywhere like I expected! I was completely surprised by the overwhelming choice of 5 rounds, since I believed most folks would opt for 6 or 8 as the minimum and 5 would be an outlier.

Despite the fact that there can be no absolute right answer, I feel like it's an exercise worth doing. At the very least it tells us about the poll respondants' perception of risk in their lives and their ideas on what action is realistic to take in difficult situations. Note, though, that there is a pretty consistent shape to the data. The peak at 5 falls off fairly smoothly, so that you could almost create an asymptotic curve as round count increases. It didn't have to work out that way, but very interesting that it did.

The other thing is, the poll asked for the minimum number, it didn't ask for the preferred number. I expect different phrasing would have resulted in very different responses.

[charlie b]

5 is what I would have expected. Why? 99% of the revolver carriers will have 5 shot pistols. And in this forum I suspect the number who might carry a revolver is quite high. And of those who don't, most recognize that the small revolver is still a potent CCW.

[FergusonTO35]

Biggest problem for me is, my accuracy can vary considerably day to day even with the same gun and ammo. On sunday, I was putting them all in the same hole at 10 yards. Yesterday I was getting patterns the size of my hand. Been shooting and hunting for 37 years and I've come to accept that I'm never going to be a bullseye shooter. So, I'm going to carry the gun and cartridge that reduces the inconsistency as much as possible. So far, that is the .380 Auto in my Glock 42 or Kimber Micro with two reloads.

[Daekar]

Biggest problem for me is, my accuracy can vary considerably day to day even with the same gun and ammo. On sunday, I was putting them all in the same hole at 10 yards. Yesterday I was getting patterns the size of my hand. Been shooting and hunting for 37 years and I've come to accept that I'm never going to be a bullseye shooter. So, I'm going to carry the gun and cartridge that reduces the inconsistency as much as possible. So far, that is the .380 Auto in my Glock 42 or Kimber Micro with two reloads.

This happens to me too, and since primers are short my practice has reduced enough to make it worse.
I have always shot lighter cartridges meaningfully better than stouter ones, and if I were to go back to semi auto centerfires I would choose 380.

[Rodfac]

While I sometimes carry an auto, with its increased capacity (Sig P365), my usual side arm is a Model 60 Smith with 5 rounds of .38 Spl +P 135's. Thankfully, I've not had to use a weapon against another man since returning from Vietnam in 1970...but I have used an increased level of 'social' awareness over the years (acquired in those two tours in my youth), to avoid several encounters that threatened me and my wife.

I keep my eyes and ears and BRAIN working, I avoid potential problem locales and feel comfortable with the 5-shot Smith. Others may have different needs and I would never question their choices. YMMv, so PAY ATTENTION out there. Rod

[FergusonTO35]

I keep my eyes and ears and BRAIN working, I avoid potential problem locales and feel comfortable with the 5-shot Smith. Others may have different needs and I would never question their choices. YMMv, so PAY ATTENTION out there. Rod

This, 100%. If a situation doesn't feel right just leave if possible. Last year while waiting in line at a store the guy in front of me was giving me the evil eye while overtly putting his hand on his wife/girlfriend/whatever's butt. I guess he thought I had the hots for her or something. You never know what people are going to do and a confrontation never turns out well. When he looked the other way I just quietly went to another line out of his view, problem solved.

[BLAHUT]

Practice so you can hit what you aim at. Then one to the mellion will take the fight out of any man or beast >

[flint45]

I carry a five shot 38 special quite often and if I carry something bigger it’s usually a sick shot 45 Smith & Wesson 1917. But I have never needed more than two shots to get the job done.

[Frosty Boolit]

People talking about making headshots under stress are dreaming. I realize it could happen but center mass is the right spot.

[gkainz]

People talking about making headshots under stress are dreaming. I realize it could happen but center mass is the right spot.

I disagree. This was from a number of years ago at Front Sight.
Hostage-taker head shots.
1911 .45
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220821/1f8ac95292898267b7224a64e3a4cec4.jpg

[M-Tecs]

People talking about making headshots under stress are dreaming. I realize it could happen but center mass is the right spot.

People handle stress differently. Some people get buck fever when deer hunting yet others remain very calm during actual combat. Also times are changing. Body armor is become much more common so a headshot might be the only option.

[oldbear1950]

I remember I bought my wife a H & R 32 MAG, 5 SHOT DOUBLE ACTION. I still think that was a good choice. But anything is better than nothing. Should never take a knife to a gun fight.
32 mag light recoil, for inside the home is fine. Although my brother has a judge with 410 special home defense loads.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I feel fine with my 5 shot model 60 in a shoulder holster. But depending on the weather and planned activity, i will choose a high capacity 9mm often. Mostly though, i feel good being armed and do not ponder how many rounds i have. Never hurts to have a AR in the trunk too.

[Boogieman]

I grew old using Colt SAAs and OM Rugers never felt under gunned. David only had 5stones

[762 shooter]

I guess I will buck the trend. If I have a choice. I would shoot for the hip bones. No body armor and stop movement.

762.

[rintinglen]

I asked my brother this question and his response was "one more than I need."

[metricmonkeywrench]

The Marine in me says every round i can carry, a few gernades and a bayonet as a last resort, realistically the retired old fat guy that is not as fast, lean and mean anymore says whatever is in the cylinder/magazine when i do need to draw.

If I am having to reload I'm in a gunfight which is not really where i want to be.

[brasshog]

For me the minimum amount of capacity is determined by what I'm wearing. If I could hide an M60E3 in nothing but a man thong I would....well maybe the thong is a bit too much lol...lets say H&K MP5K3 series in shorts and a t-shirt :D.

[BLAHUT]

One to the mellion will take the wind out of any large sail>> takes all the bad thoughts with it ??

[Net]

I voted 10 because i believe 5 with a reload would be my comfort level. However the question specifically said no reload allowed in the situation.

[BLAHUT]

people talking about making headshots under stress are dreaming. I realize it could happen but center mass is the right spot.

if i remember my anatimey from long ago?
A heart shot still leaves a 4 minute window for and attacker to do damage?
A head shot usually puts a stop in place, now>
practice, practice, practice, so you can hit, what you are aiming at???

[35remington]

With any reasonable caliber a heart shot will cause blood loss to be excessive and incapacitating very long before the four minute mark. It is now a leaky pump. Not good for the recipient.

[rintinglen]

The US Army Doctors in WW II determined that an oxygenated, adrenalized individual could continue to function 10-20 seconds after being struck in the heart by a projectile less than 50 caliber.

[Dekota56]

In my 357 I carry 5 rounds, I my 45 Dbl. stack I carry 10 rounds.

[Txcowboy52]

Personally I would say 5, but after giving it more thought I would say it depends on the skill level of the person carrying. If they can’t make a good shot with a few rounds who’s to say they can make a reload under pressure. Practice with what you carry. Practice practice practice!!!

[charlie b]

^^^^^this should be repeated every other post in this thread.

One target, 1 shot is the goal.

[todd9.3x57]

"one shot, one kill" as my drill sergeants said.

[Forester232]

What the majority seems to forget is adrenaline. It doesn't matter where you are when the situation arises. Adrenaline will make you shake and have tunnel vision causing inaccurate firing or completely emptying your firearm without hitting anything. There are studies of actual shoot outs and the number of fired rounds. Until you have been in the position of having to protect yourself in live shooter situation you won't understand what the adrenaline surge will do.
This post was set up to ask how many cartridges you would carry with no reloads for your firearm. With my back ground and training I would carry the highest capacity firearm concealed that I was able to carry. In the 70s it was a Colt 1911 7+1, now it would be my Sig 226 with 13. If I had a larger capacity magazine, I would probably go with that.
Every one has their own thoughts on this and training with lots of practice will make you better, but you have to take into consideration the adrenaline surge - Buck Fever. When some one starts to shoot at you, the adrenaline jumps and anyone who has served in the military under fire knows what I talking about.

[Whiterabbit]

I didn't even vote since my vote is 1, so I did not see the results until now. There are two votes for 19+. Maybe they missed the underlined, and clearly stated "no reloads counted". Or maybe they really are shooting 19+ capacity handguns? I know the FN 5.7 holds 20, that was the selling point, and is a very cool gun. A quick search shows a Kel-Tec in 22 mag that holds 30, and I assume there are other 22 LR and 22 mag guns out there that are 19+. I'm not aware of any 9mm with a standard magazine of 19+, but there likely is one somewhere. Maybe these guys are carrying with extended magazines?

So to those that voted 19+, what are you shooting?

I voted 5, but I bought and shot an FN for the 20 round reason. really like that gun.

[HWooldridge]

Deleted. It was a Reddit link to a shooting in a South American bank, but the post yielded an error.

[Bmi48219]

To paraphrase Pat McManus’s often repeated quote regarding what is the legal limit on brook trout, “all you can shoot, plus one”.

[Idaho45guy]

10 and 2 is my CCW criteria...

At least 10 rounds capacity and 2" 5-shot groups at 25 yards. I carry a 12-round P365 most of the time, but will upgrade to a 13-round G23 Glock if I can conceal it, and go with an 11-round XDM 10mm in the woods.

My 10mm will do 3/4" 5-shot groups at 25 yards. I am confident at engagements out to 100 yards with it.

I have shot under stress, and I was amazed at how my brain slowed down time and I got tunnel vision focused on the threat. Training and tactics I hadn't thought about for decades came back immediately. I was pretty amazed.

[Laguna Freak]

Annually, I average 23 daily carry rounds. 8 in my .45 and 11 in my .40. I carry 2 spare mags for the .45 and 1 spare mag for the .40. The .40 is my summer carry and .45 for winter carry because I have to wear a t-shirt to prevent Les Baer combat grip belly rash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

I think being comfortable and confident with your piece is way more important than capacity. I am fortunate to have a number of CCW guns to choose from, but my absolute favorite is the Glock 42. I'm thinking of cashing in some of my less favored pistols for more 42's. I do have a P365 9mm in layaway jail because I got a good deal on it. Will it ultimately supplant the 42? Remains to be seen. If it is unpleasant to shoot then I already have a buyer lined up for it.

[Ramjet-SS]

Not a good or even reasonable question in my opinion.

The right answer is the amount that stops the threat….

[rintinglen]

And all you need is the Amazing Kreskin to let you know in advance what that number will be.

[billmc2]

I didn't even vote since my vote is 1, so I did not see the results until now. There are two votes for 19+. Maybe they missed the underlined, and clearly stated "no reloads counted". Or maybe they really are shooting 19+ capacity handguns? I know the FN 5.7 holds 20, that was the selling point, and is a very cool gun. A quick search shows a Kel-Tec in 22 mag that holds 30, and I assume there are other 22 LR and 22 mag guns out there that are 19+. I'm not aware of any 9mm with a standard magazine of 19+, but there likely is one somewhere. Maybe these guys are carrying with extended magazines?

So to those that voted 19+, what are you shooting?

I didn't vote either. What I normally carry is a CZ PCR. I have the 14 round mags, but I understand they make 15 round ones, so for that gun it would be 14 + 1 for a total of 15.

I don't normally carry my Beretta 92FS. I've made a cross draw holster for it and its not hard to conceal. That has the Mec-Gar 18 round mags. Using those mags it comes to 18+1 for a total of 19. Those are not extended mags either.

[Idaho45guy]

Not a good or even reasonable question in my opinion.

The right answer is the amount that stops the threat….

Yep. And no one knows how many that is. You can go by FBI statistics that are decades old and decide a J-Frame with 5 rounds is adequate. Or... You can recognize that the world is a completely different place than it was a few short years ago and that more rounds and more accuracy is warranted.

The only people who wish they have less capacity are those who have never faced danger.

[rintinglen]

I once witnessed a man die in an automobile fire, I keep a fire extinguisher in my car. But I do not drive a fire engine. I carry a swiss army knife, not a tool box full of screwdrivers. In hot weather, I carry a compact gun, usually a revolver, because that is what I am accustomed to, but sometimes an LCP in a pocket. Those are the smallest guns I can use effectively. When it's cold, I carry whatever I feel like. A winter coat will hide just about anything this side of a 10 inch barrel silhouette pistol, and a big enough coat might let you hide one of those.

I have to differ with Idaho: the FBI data may have been decades old, but they reflected many, many years of data. The notion that the world has gotten somehow vastly different is misguided. You may find yourself contending with a modern day version of the SLA, but the odds are very, very long against it, just as they were back in the 70's when the Weathermen and other groups were active. By far the most common need for a firearm is against one or two assailants. How many shots you need to repel them depends on your ability. NYPD Officer Jim Cirillo dropped three robbers with a Model 10 Smith. I've seen several dash cam videos of officers firing multiple shots without hitting anyone with semi autos. The question we need to answer is where do we stand on that scale and make a choice accordingly.

But 5 is the least I would carry.

[BLAHUT]

I disagree. This was from a number of years ago at Front Sight.
Hostage-taker head shots.
1911 .45
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220821/1f8ac95292898267b7224a64e3a4cec4.jpg

Sherry if this is your target, good shooting girl...

[FergusonTO35]

I once witnessed a man die in an automobile fire, I keep a fire extinguisher in my car. But I do not drive a fire engine. I carry a swiss army knife, not a tool box full of screwdrivers. In hot weather, I carry a compact gun, usually a revolver, because that is what I am accustomed to, but sometimes an LCP in a pocket. Those are the smallest guns I can use effectively. When it's cold, I carry whatever I feel like. A winter coat will hide just about anything this side of a 10 inch barrel silhouette pistol, and a big enough coat might let you hide one of those.

I have to differ with Idaho: the FBI data may have been decades old, but they reflected many, many years of data. The notion that the world has gotten somehow vastly different is misguided. You may find yourself contending with a modern day version of the SLA, but the odds are very, very long against it, just as they were back in the 70's when the Weathermen and other groups were active. By far the most common need for a firearm is against one or two assailants. How many shots you need to repel them depends on your ability. NYPD Officer Jim Cirillo dropped three robbers with a Model 10 Smith. I've seen several dash cam videos of officers firing multiple shots without hitting anyone with semi autos. The question we need to answer is where do we stand on that scale and make a choice accordingly.

But 5 is the least I would carry.

This, 100%. I am planning to practice putting rounds into the vitals of a silhouette target at greater range, like 25 yards or more. Pinpoint accuracy is not what I am going for, rather can I put one or more shots somewhere important at that distance and kill or at least disable the bad guy. Recently, a guy with a handgun did just that against an assailant in a mall in Indiana.

[scottyp99]

I pocket-carry a j-frame on a regular basis. Yeah, only 5 shots, but I practice situational awareness, and I feel like 5 shots of .38 Special +P ought to let me get out of just about any situation I am likely to find myself in. If I knew I was going to get into a gunfight, I'd bring my shotgun full of 00 buckshot, and all my friends who own shotguns.


Scotty

[BadgerShooter]

When police carried wheelguns, the average officer fired 5.some rounds per engagement. Once hi-cap guns came on the scene the average went to 15.some rounds per engagement. At least in
law enforcement shooting, the answer is "All you got". The problem with the smaller capacity guns in our current world is if you have to face multiple attackers or mobs. More bullets keep you in the fight longer so you can get to your long gun - (the purpose of a handgun). Putting yourself in the path of mobs is a whole nuther story.

The advantage of the small gun is that you are far more likely to have it with you when you need it. Everything is a tradeoff - everybody needs to decide their place on the small vs big scale.

One of the gals I am training runs a Sig 365 XL. Seems to be an excellent gun. Her and I have put more than 500 rounds through it and its been accurate and reliable. It's smaller and slimmer than a G19 and holds nearly the same capacity. Pretty close to having your cake and eating it too.

[M-Tecs]

One of the gals I am training runs a Sig 365 XL. Seems to be an excellent gun. Her and I have put more than 500 rounds through it and its been accurate and reliable. It's smaller and slimmer than a G19 and holds nearly the same capacity. Pretty close to having your cake and eating it too.

That is my daily carry gun. I have one for the wife also. They both shoot better than anything else I have tried in that size class.

[FergusonTO35]

If you have to pull your gun in an emergency, it is statistically likely that the miscreant will change his mind without a shot being fired. So, just having a gun in the first place already puts you way ahead of the curve.

[BadgerShooter]

Statistics are cold comfort when you are bleeding. I've been in two situations in my life and didn't have to shoot but you better be ready and able. Both you and your equipment.

[RJM52]

I don't think I voted but my answer would be 5....that said...

I've known a lot of people personally who have been in gunfights or "critical situations" where no shots were fired. I've also read a bunch of personal stories of people on the various websites and one "theme" keeps coming up. Those who carried "Mouse Guns", as in snubbes and below rarely ever carried them again as their primary unless there was no choice.

One of the ones I remember best was a retired LEO on the original Shooters.com. He lived somewhere in the mid west outside a fairly large city. He had always carried a SIG 9mm of some kind but one day he came on raving about his newly purchased Keltec .32 and how he was no longer carrying the 9mm.... Now while I have owned P32s since they came out and think they are the finest BOG/hideout gun ever made, I told him he was giving up an awful lot of firepower for "convenience"...he disagreed....

A few months go by and one Monday he posts that while he is still carrying the P32 in his pocket all the time, he has gone back to the 9mm while out and about.... Seem the previous morning he and his wife had to go to the big city very early...there was no traffic at all. They were in a industrial/warehouse type area when a pickup with three apparently hadn't been to bed yet drunks pulled up along side and started cat calls at his wife. They then began following them and finally tried running them off the road. He was able to escape the situation and once safe they pulled over shaking....it was then he realized if something had gone wrong the only thing between the 3-jerks and his wife was the little .32 in his pocket that he couldn't even access while seated....

But as I have written before, it isn't what you carry that keeps you out of the fight in the first place or prevail if it comes to it, but your knowledge, skills, attitude, training, tactics and awareness....but having "enough gun" helps.

Bob

[challenger_i]

I pocket-carry a j-frame on a regular basis. Yeah, only 5 shots, but I practice situational awareness, and I feel like 5 shots of .38 Special +P ought to let me get out of just about any situation I am likely to find myself in. If I knew I was going to get into a gunfight, I'd bring my shotgun full of 00 buckshot, and all my friends who own shotguns.


Scotty

Plus 1.

[BadgerShooter]

But as I have written before, it isn't what you carry that keeps you out of the fight in the first place or prevail if it comes to it, but your knowledge, skills, attitude, training, tactics and awareness....but having "enough gun" helps.

Bob[/QUOTE]

This! People get all wrapped up about equipment and forget that they are the weapon and their firearm is just one of their tools. Good tools help but the important thing is YOU being physically and mentally prepared.

[Chena]

Years ago I simplified my handgun inventory by moving exclusively to stainless Smith & Wesson double action revolvers with spring kits that gave the same trigger pull and with identical sight set ups. This reduced the required manual of arms and muscle memory to a single baseline. Prior to that I had a good CZ 75b that I shot well, but finally decided that 16+1 plus a spare mag was much more than would ever be required. Now, with the rise of multiple perp street assaults and home invasions I am starting to wish I had held on to the CZ. I handled one of their decockers not long ago, and the drill would seem to be identical to a double action revolver up to the reload.

[charlie b]

That's why I like my striker fired semi-autos. Same as my revolvers. Just point and shoot.

[justindad]

In rural areas, 6 rounds in my .357 Mag walk along with me. In crowded areas, I have 14 rounds of .357 SIG that keep me company.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm in the J frame Air weight camp 5 rounds fits great in a ankle holster, Last time I draw it only took one shot but I was carrying a colt 1911 and we only loaded five shots in each mag.

[DonMerlin]

I voted 6 because “one per customer” was not a choice in the poll.

[FergusonTO35]

I voted 6 because “one per customer” was not a choice in the poll.

I once talked to an old copper from northern Illinois and that's how he described the .38 Special FBI load!

[Crash_Corrigan]

Earlier I carried a Buldog 44 with a ground down hammer spur with two tuff speed strips or a Charter Arms Patriot in 327 mag that carried 6 shots along with two tuff speedstrips with 8 shots apiece. recently I bought a Smith shield 2.0 EX CT. It is flat, carries easily, has a laser sight and carries 8 plus one along with two loaded 8 shot mags. All of these were easy to conceal and carry and with the right ammo will do the job required. My carry amo is Underwood 90 gr extreme defender solid copper rounds. The ballistics on this round are incredible. Velocity is 1520 fps and the wound characteristics are truly nasty in gelatin.

[Texas by God]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230204/89f45e1944e84fed8c79293337ec7b69.jpg
It could be 5,7, or 9 on any given day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

I just bought a second Glock 42, picking it up tomorrow. Been CCWing for about 15 years now and tried alot of different guns, both wheelies and bottom feeders. While I have plenty of others in my arsenal and do carry them, there is no other handgun out there that gives me the best combination of concealability, decent power level and capacity, ease of use, and accuracy that the Glock 42 does. I feed it Makarov level loads with 100 grain plated flat points and it doesn't miss a beat!

[flint45]

Five shots is fine for 90% or more of situations but sometimes I carry a 13 shot 9 mm with an extra mag.

[Snakeoil]

Can't vote because my choice is not one of the selections. My normal carry is a 5 shot Mod 60. But I have been known to stick a 2-shot Texas derringer in .38 spl in my pocket when a holstered carry was not practical. That little gun is also perfect for jacket pocket carry. Gun is basically in your hand all the time you are walking.

[MEB]

I've used a gun 3 times to defend my self, luckily I didn’t have to shoot.
I now carry a 9mm pocket gun and 2 mags 6 rds ea. on me all the time I'm up, total weighs 1.6#, just in case.

[Snakeoil]

I've used a gun 3 times to defend my self, luckily I didn’t have to shoot.
I now carry a 9mm pocket gun and 2 mags 6 rds ea. on me all the time I'm up, total weighs 1.6#, just in case.

Wow, that's about 3 times too many. I had a drunk pull out a small revolver and stick it in my face. I could see the little copper plated 22 rounds in the cylinder. I could also hear my buddy's feet pounding the sidewalk as he ran away. I did not dare run. I talked. He was pissed at somebody in the bar I'd just come out of. Somehow, I talked him down and he put the gun away. I can still see the muzzle and those little copper bullets in my memory like it was yesterday. It was right after that when I decided I needed a concealed carry permit. Although, I doubt it would have helped that night.

[BadgerShooter]

Gunfights last till you are out of ammo.

I was in a situation in New Mexico many years ago where I had walked into a robbery. I was able to de-escalate the two meth heads and nobody got hurt, but I think if I would have had a gun, things would have went bad fast. Lots of innocent people, etc. I have never went unarmed with at least something from that day, but tempered with the fact that sometimes it's not the best answer. Also being more heads up and taking a second or two to assess a situation before just walking in.

I heard a great description of the two approaches to those situations. The first is using the monkey brain. It wants to jump up, screech and throw poop. The Lizard brain is the second option. Its first reaction is to scuttle under a rock. The lizard brain is not as cool, but has a far higher survivability.

[trapper9260]

The way I looking at it you carry as much any you like and dose not matter anymore for just carry what you have in the gun for how things had changed in the country , I had read a write up on this subject and it said that years ago you can get by with what is in the gun but now you can not because first things will not always work out like you plan and then when in a gun fight you do not know how many you will be have shooting at you and do not forget the shoot out that happen some years ago Miami Dade , one had extra ammo and it was not on the person, but sitting in the car. I know this is the extreme thing can happen. But you do not know also it depends on where you live and how it is there. Some can get by with what is in the gun others might need more . I say what feel right for you and go with it . There is no right or wrong reply on it. Also no matter how much one will train with the one they carry you do not know what will happen if that day will come. That is how it looks to me. Times has changed .

[BadgerShooter]

the purpose of a handgun is to get you to your long gun. The farther you are from your long gun, the more ammo you should have.

[FergusonTO35]

Ultimately, the main criteria for any firearm for any purpose is, can you place the shots where they need to go when necessary? I gave my trusty old S&W 637 and new to me Glock 42 some exercise today. I am not a good marksman by any means, but I can put slugs from either one in the vitals or head of a standard silhouette pretty quickly out to 12 yards or so. So, I believe I am as well protected as I can possibly be with a gun that is small enough to always have with me.

[The Montanan]

My S&W mod 66-8 holds 6 but voted for 5 rounds, my S&W mod 637-2 holds 5 rounds and my RIA M200 holds 6 rounds, since I'm getting a Ruger SP101 2.5" and won't feel under gunned no matter which one I carry.

[FergusonTO35]

How has that Rock Island M200 been for you? I've been thinking about getting one.

[FergusonTO35]

I've decided to add my Taurus G3C to my CCW lineup. Previously it was just my woods stomping gun, however it functions 100% and is as accurate as my Glocks. Had it throated by Dougguy and feed it the Arsenal 358-130-FP over 3.8 grains HP-38.