New and need some advice please

[engelbrecht.hs]

Hi guys.
Started casting two days ago for my 9mm
Got myself a Lyman 356402 120gr TC 2 cavity mold and about 80lbs of lead.
Cast 672 bullets on the first day, RESTED ON THE 2ND

Equipment used
Lyman mold
Cast iron pot
Gas stove (portable)
Soup ladle

Some things I've learned
1. Wear gloves(blisters on fingers and forearms)
2. Pot is too big or burner too small. After a bit the lead starts to solidify from the edges inwards. Used my forge burner to help the initial melt
3. I need a melting pot.

After casting and powdercoating(in itself something to learn) I weighed the boolits. They weiged in at 129 grains with and without PC. So this tells me that the lead is somewhat pure and heavier than the appropriate aloy.
Because of my lack of experience the boolits were coated very thick wit PC

Now to my question
Can I shoot these soft boolits without leading the barrel and damaging my new firearm?
Ive asked this question on a couple of local (South African) Facebook groups and got contradictory answers.
Some say because of the PC I can shoot without worries some state otherwise.
Whats your experience with shooting PC soft lead boolits.

I have been searching for Linotype here in SA but to no avail. Saw some from Rotometals but with $75 shipping it gets expensive.

Heres a pic of my first try at powdercoating...dont laugh hehehehe


Ps....had to go back and change bullets to boolits301640

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[mdi]

Just a couple thoughts; Sounds like you may need to get more heat on the pot to prevent cool edges of the melt. The PC should protect the softer alloy when shooting. I always thought of PCing as a "soft jacket", and protect the bullet from leading the barrel...

Good info here; "Lead and Lead alloys" and "Coatings and Alternatives" sub forums...

[gwpercle]

Although soft ... the powder coating should allow them to work . Load a few and test before loading a bunch .
Now ...seating soft boolits ... you need to flare the case mouth enough so it doesn't scrape off coating when it is seated ...you should flare - seat boolit - and crimp in a seperate step to keep scraping at bay .
I wish someone had told me this 50 years ago ... Lee Magnum Melter w/ 20 lb. capacity and a Lyman Casting Ladle w/ the little side spout... Pressure Cast Them . The 20 lb. capacity is wonderful and the side spouted dipper/ pressure casting will turn out lovely boolits .
Don't get suckered into that "you must use a bottom pour pot" ... Hog Wash ... the bottom pour isn't the best way for me ... it sucked rocks and I gave that thing away to a fellow member who lost all his stuff in a fire ... and I still felt bad about pushing it off on him !

Lee Magnum Melter and Lyman Dipper ...Rocks and Rolls !!!
Gary

[Kosh75287]

Now...seating soft boolits...you need to flare the case mouth enough so it doesn't scrape off coating when it is seated...you should flare - seat boolit - and crimp in a separate step to keep scraping at bay.

THIS is VERY important. I could not agree more.

I also think that MDI is right about considering PC as a sort of "soft jacket" that keeps the lead from contacting the rifling. If your coating is a little bit too thick, I think it's MUCH better than having a bullet cast too large, since the soft polymer coating will "swedge down" to proper dimensions far more easily, without elevating pressures, as would the tougher lead alloy.

The advice to load a few and try them, before you load up a greater amount, is good advice, also. I SUSPECT that you've done far better than you think you have. The proof is in the trying.
I just hope you haven't PC'd all of the 672 bullets you cast. If you find that they don't perform well, then you will want to re-melt the bullets. I don't know how that much polymer in a lead melter will affect the alloy. I would GUESS that most of it will come off as fumes, but I have no experience with that.

[engelbrecht.hs]

Thanks guys
I have coated about half of the 672 bullets, and i suspect i have screwed the pooch on those.
Saw a video where a guy said that after baking you should test with a cloth and acetone. If the PC rubs off then you should bake them some more.
They went from a nice light blue to that darker color. Put one on the anvil and smashed it with a hammer intil it was 2mm thick. On the sides there are no signs of flaking, but where the hanmer and the anvil contacted i can see lead.
I am expecting my oven thermometer to be delivered tomorrow then i see at what temp i was actually baking them. They didnt smoke or smell funny at all.
I dont mind melting them all back and starting over. Its fun.
I have a lee 9mm die set. Will that be ok to load these pc bullets?
Will send a pic of the smashed bullets shortly

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301641301642
Secons picture is one thats just been wet coated with pc and acetone....not even baked and it holds together better

[fredj338]

You wont hurt your pistol but accuracy may suffer. Leading, maybe, maybe not, depends on the bbl & how hard you push them. I shoot mostly range scrap, 9-10bhn, PC & water dropped out of the oven. you get a small bhn bump & surface hardening. They shoot better than I can hold in any of my 9mm.

[Walter Laich]

as stated above, keep to a mid-load and you should be fine. High velocity can wait a bit

take it you aren't sizing? after I PC, I size and that cures a multitude of sins

your barrel won't care if the coating is a bit rough

► and welcome to the forum--glad you joined up!!

[414gates]

There is a supplier in Johannesburg that sells 4% lead, which is used in wheelweights. It's about R70 per kilo, I checked about 2 weeks ago.

NFM in Germiston , +27 31 480 7388

Just test the bullets you made using the minimum powder charge for the weight, and see what the barrel looks like.

In a 9mm, the powder coat should hold together even on soft lead.

You can join the allgunstuff.co.za forum, there's a lot of local experience to leverage there..

If you can weld, you could probably make yourself a melter have a look at

Making a lead melter. (https://ysterhout.net/docs/melter/index.html)

[wv109323]

Can you scratch the lead with your thumbnail on an uncoated bullet?
Is there much weight difference between your uncoated boolits?
I suspect those bullets will shoot better than you expect at moderate velocities. Scrayching them can be an indication of hardness and weight will tell you if you got consistent fill out.

[engelbrecht.hs]

Thanks
Phoning NFM tomorrow
I can get a lee melting pot. Just waiting for the guy to finish moving to Capetown and unpack his boxes. Will really help.
Going to talk to some tyre fitment places as well to see if i can get some qheel weights.
Yes i can scratch the uncoated bullets easily with my nail. The difference in the coated and uncoated bullets aren't much, maybe a grain or less. The difference in weight between uncoated bullets is less than a grain.
Dont want to push velocity. Just want some decent range time with bullets that will cycle in my handgun.
I think the little toaster oven is the problem with the PC. Theres no insulation and the top of it gets VERY hot. The elements keep switching an and off quite oten and they get red hot.Will stuff some caowool in the cavities between the casing and the oven. That should help.
I am currently running both the top and botom elements. Should I just run the top or botom???

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[reddog81]

My only worry about the Lee die set would be that the expander die will be to small in diameter and the brass will squish the bullet when seating. This has a detrimental impact on accuracy. The die sets they sell do best when used with jacketed bullets. For my 9mm lead bullets I size to .357 and use a Lyman M die as an expander. This is not necessary but is generally advised when looking for optimal accuracy

With PC done correctly the bullets shouldn't lead the barrel. The PC done incorrectly you will probably start to notice lead in the barrel after a magazine or 2.

With a soft alloy you should have OK luck with starting charges in 9mm.

[Winger Ed.]

Sounds like you're on the right track.

At regular 9mm speeds with the powder coat, you shouldn't have a leading issue no matter what the alloy is.

I'd get the heat on up in the pot, and not put any more expensive 'goodies' into the alloy than you have to
in order to get a good fill out in the mold.

[whisler]

I suggest you get a Lee 38 S & W (not Special) powder-thru expander spud for your die set to replace the 9 mm expander. This will expand the case deeper and help alleviate swaging down the boolit. Very inexpensive (at least in the USA)

[Walks]

You need to load hot enough for reliable functioning in any semi-auto.
And don't ever put your toaster oven in Direct Sunlight.

[charlie b]

My only caution depends on your 9mm. My HK barrel has no throat. The beginning of the rifling is a sharp edge. When shooting cast it just scrapes off the PC and then the barrel collects lead.

[414gates]

Going to talk to some tyre fitment places as well to see if i can get some qheel weights.

I'm happy to go in with you on a bulk buy if you find any. All the places I checked have a contract with a recycler.


I am currently running both the top and botom elements. Should I just run the top or botom???

You need to check the oven temperature. Powder coat curing is temperature dependant. It has to cure at a particular temperature, for a certain time.

The way I do it is to hang a 10x10cm steel plate inside the oven, and use a handheld infrared thermometer on it. I found that the inside of the oven itself wasn't reading reliably on the thermometer.

I check the temperature at various points on the dial after letting it sit for 15 minutes at that setting, and permanently mark where the correct setting is.

[Wayne Smith]

We do have a whole subsection on PC'ing. I don't do it, but you can get all your PC'ing questions answered there.

[engelbrecht.hs]

I suggest you get a Lee 38 S & W (not Special) powder-thru expander spud for your die set to replace the 9 mm expander. This will expand the case deeper and help alleviate swaging down the boolit. Very inexpensive (at least in the USA)Whisler. Can you perhaps give me the dimensions of that lee expander plug. My friend is a machinist and can make one real quick otherwise i have to buy a whole 38 S&W die set

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[gwpercle]

I reload 9mm with cast and flare the mouth with a Lee Universal Case Neck Expanding Die .
The Lee die has two inserts that allow flaring from .22 to .45 and NOE makes additional M-Die type inserts for a wide viriety of sizes .
When loading cast the Lee Universal Die is handy to have and with the NOE inserts ...it becomes a M-Die at a fraction of the price from Lyman .
Don't buy a 38 S&W die set just for the neck expander , unless you plan to reload 38 S&W ... die sets are hard to come by .
Gary

[whisler]

I bought the 38 S & W expander spud alone from Lee for IIRC $3.00. If you find that they won't ship just the spud to your location, let me know and I will attempt to make some measurements for you. Might also check with Titan Reloading, a Lee distributor.

[slim1836]

If your oven isn't a convection oven I suggest getting one, you will be glad you did. Also, a basic oven thermometer will work to check temps, 400* for 20 minutes is what I use for baking time.

Try the Lee Expander Die, a lot of us use them and it works. There are better methods but they are caliber specific. You can use a center punch to flair cases also in a pinch.

Welcome aboard and good luck, 9mm is one of the hardest calibers to cast and load so don't get discouraged.

Slim

[wv109323]

It sounds like your lead is pretty soft but you may get around 900 to 1000 fps. You will need to experiment with loads. Load a small number and load only one round in the magazine. If the loads lock the slide back that load should function the gun.
My cheap toaster oven cycles frequently but does the job. My thermostat is way off as to actual temp versus the marked temp on the dial. 250 d is actually 400 degrees. I pre-heat and then 400 degrees for 20 minutes. The brand of PC powder makes a difference. Most people on here order from Smoke4320(IIRC).

[MarkP]

Whisler. Can you perhaps give me the dimensions of that lee expander plug. My friend is a machinist and can make one real quick otherwise i have to buy a whole 38 S&W die set

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Have your friend machine some plugs for LEE Universal expander die. Look on NOE's website to see what they look like. Make the plug about bullet size or 0.001" smaller than your intended bullet diameter. With springback you should get enough neck tension. The plug should have a step to flare the mouth to allow the heal to seat in side the mouth of the case.

[paul edward]

If your bullets are coming out at 129 grains, you might be using pure lead. I also have that mold, bought in 1973, and it drops bullets at about 120 grains cast from a hard alloy.

What diameter are are your bullets measuring right out of the mold?

Previous posts give good advice about neck expanding and case mouth belling.

Suggest you slug the barrel of the pistols in which you intend to shoot these loads. Size your bullets .001 to .002 larger than groove diameter.

After loading one or two, pull the bullets and measure them to make sure that seating them has not reduced their diameter below groove dimensions.

The 9mm can be a challenging cartridge to reload. You will find lots of good information on this website. Wish I had known some of this info back in 1973 when I started loading for the 9mm.

[BJung]

To answer some of your questions: First, wear eye protection because you don't want to accidentally add wet lead into a pot of molten lead and have it spit molten lead onto your eyes. Second, find a fan to push the lead fumes away from you or cast in an area with a breeze and that is in the open. Third, you can find you alloys in range lead and wheel weights. If you can acquire both, I'd suggest casting ingots of one or the other and later mix a 50/50 combination in a pot for casting. Some casters use 50/50 wheel weights and pure lead and then add say 2% tin. Swirl pour your lead than dropping the molten lead into the sprue hole and the bullet weights will be more consistent. That goes the same with pot temperature. Temperature to me varies depending on whether I'm using an aluminum or brass mold. I don't have an iron mold. As for myself, I use a flat hand fryer handle to sift out dirt and place spent bullets from a berm as my range lead. I then let them sit and break the stacks of ingots by hardness using lead pencils. Some casters will take a % of each ingot and add it a pot so the alloy mixture will be about the same. The PC bullets are okay but, if you crimp the bullet too much or crimp the case and reseat the PC bullet, you are apt to scrape off the paint. As mentioned, be sure to flare your cast mouth or else the PC will be scraped off. I also have Imperial Die Wax on my PC bullets from the resizing process. This helps the bullet slide into the case. I also discovered that your vibrator will apply the paint more evenly than by hand.

[engelbrecht.hs]

Will look for some tin
Also gonna build a sieve for range scrap
Slugged my bore today came out at .356 ordered me a bullet sizer of .357. Assuming i read correctly that should be the right size?
Also got a purpouse built powder through flaring stud. A local caoted bullet company makes them.

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