pressure casting & water quenching dont mix?

[waco]

so i was doing some casting tonight. lyman 457124 385rn. alloy is ww 9.5lbs and a half lb lino just to sweetin the pot. i decided to try water quenching for the first time.this is for my 1895 marlin in .45-70. i was having some trouble with the mould filling out so i started pressure casting. all was well until i put the pressure cast boolits in the water. i had a major finning problem, but only when dumped into the water. cast normally through my lee 10lb bottom pour pot, and put into water, all was well. so....my question is, has anyone else come across this?the pressure ast boolits dropped from the mould perfect. but try to quench them and the fins start flyin!....any help would be much appreciated! thanks again guys.
Waco
p.s....the photo shows the bad ones on the left and the good ones to the right.:castmine:

[R.M.]

I too will sometimes get fins when I pressure cast. I don't think the water drop has anything to do with it. Coincidence probably.

[Ricochet]

I'm guessing that somehow when you started quenching you got something on the block faces that kept them from closing tightly.

Also, in the case of Lee six hole moulds, be careful NOT to squeeze the sprue plate handle together with the mould handles while casting. It springs the blocks apart and causes this finning problem and oversized boolits. (I know this is a Lyman mould, I'm just mentioning a common problem.)

[docone31]

How in the dickens does water quenching produce wings? I suspect it is something in the mold.
How also, do you use the 10lb pot with that large casting? When I do my ACP in my 20lb bottom pour pot, I can drain it in an heartbeat.
The finning looks like something is holding the mold open slightly.
If you did not get good fillout, was your mold hot enough?
I try to use the six second rule. For whatever that is.
Six seconds from fill to freeze. Just before freeze, the sprue pulls the center of the sprue to fill the suction from the metal freezing. You have probably seen it. The sprue puddle acts as liquid resevoir so the contraction of the casting, instead of pulling away from the mold, pulls the sprue.
Therefore, water quenching should not grow wings as the casting is already "frozen".
I might look to see if the mold is warped at a certain point in the heat cycle. Molds will also do that. They will be aligned cool, and aligned at operating temperature. Could there also be some contamination in the alignment keys?
Good photos.
At any rate, water dropping should not produce any change in detail. Even the silver castings I do, I drop into water at 100*, it blows off the investment, but, it does not affect detail. The freeze has already occured at 1350*. Lead alloys should be similiar. 50* off melt, they should not lose any detail. They will be soft and possibly deform, but not change shape from the thermal shock.

[waco]

I only got the fins when dropped into the water.All pressure cast and air cooled turned out just fine. I tried this several times with the same results. they all finned when they hit the water. Like I said, this is my first time trying water quenching......just thought it was odd.
waco:confused:

[Echo]

Odd is a correct adjective for this...

[Russel Nash]

Okay, ya guys got me ... what is this pressure cast you speak of?

:confused:

[Bloodman14]

Waco, something is definitely holding your mold apart! Check the alignment pins, etc., and check for warp, too.

Gunnerd

Lead Forever!

[357maximum]

Okay, ya guys got me ... what is this pressure cast you speak of?

:confused:

With a bottom pour outfit you hold the spout directly into the little bevelled hole on the spruplate of the mold, and let er rip...pressurized casting..AKA injection molding.

Works the same with a full ladle just line the spout of the ladle up to the sideways mold and give it a tip to the side..tadaa a pressure casted boolit.

I have 2 moulds(complicated design and a Loverin) that insist on pressure casting to make things right, the other 35 or so do not like it. A few do not like it at all and have a fit when I try it.

*caution* when pressure casting with a full pot you sometimes get squirts of lead that go airborne at the end of the fill......not good

[Bret4207]

Waco, common sense and logic tell me the fins and water dropping are pure coincidence. Check your blocks.

[Russel Nash]

^^^ a'yup, just pure coincidence. there is something between the mould blocks keeping them apart a few thousandths. on one of my lyman moulds there was a burr that developed on one of those dimples that receives the mating nipples which align the blocks. it was just enough to keep the blocks from closing all the way.

heck, I think I even had a couple of boolits still joined together with a thin sprue between 'em.

Argghh..

[Russel Nash]

Thanks 357maximum!

[Heavy lead]

So Waco, trying to understand here. When you drop the boolits out of the blocks they are not finned?! But when you pull them from the water they are?! Is this what you are saying man?:veryconfu

[monadnock#5]

You describe the boolits as finned, but I don't see that in your pic. I see lumps, bumps and deformations as though you're dropping them way too soon or dropping them on something hard. My guess is that your idea of quenching and my idea of quenching are a little different. If that's the case......when you quench, use a five gallon bucket half full of water. The water both quenches and cushions the boolits from the sudden stop at the bottom of the bucket. Drop directly into the bucket. If you don't like the back splash, or the safety issues involved, put a square of cloth over the bucket, secure the cloth with a bungee cord, form a dish shape in the cloth to act as a funnel and then slit the cloth so that your boolits can fall through. For the heavies you're casting, more water in the bucket would be better than less water.

I'll shut up now, on the possibility that my suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with what's causing your problem.

[anachronism]

waco- The water drop is not related to your finning problem. The bullets are already cast & should be completely "frozen" before they even leave the mould. The finning you see is caused by your mould blocks not being completely closed while you're filling the cavities. The most common cause of this are debris (often lead spatters) on the face of the mould blocks, preventing them from closing completely. It could also be a problem with your locating dowels, or even battering around the dowel pin alignment holes.

It is physically impossible for the fins to develop after the bullet leaves the mould.

ETA: Monadnock makes a good point. Are you allowing the bullets to freeze completely before you release them from the mould? A couple of them look a bit distorted.

[TAWILDCATT]

It may be vent fins from hot lead and pressure casting.frankly your not getting the velocity to need hard bullets.I would not even harden them. I shoot 30 rifle at 1600 and never harden.:coffeecom [smilie=1:

[rhead]

When you are water dropping, do you shift your position any? Move your feet out of the way of the bucket or anything else that might also alter your grip? Try pressure casting with the quenching bucket in place but drop every other casting onto the towel or where ever you put the non quenched bullets the others go into the bucket of water. If the fins are showing up only on the quenched bullets then something is changing before the bullet leaves the mould. It cannot know whether or not you are going to drop it into water. You are making some olther minot change.