Long range hunter breaks down anti long range Hunter

[Wolfdog91]

One of the best videos I've seen in a while. Somone who actually long range hunts. Has video evidence, ballistic evidence,a in depth knowledge breaks down all the bull crap from someone who has a vendetta against it.


https://youtu.be/ro3QQea8Th8


https://youtu.be/htXP0Q8FfgI

[M-Tecs]

The gentleman if the video is knowledgeable enough to understand what a blowhard the so-called "real gunsmith" is. Beyond that I am not impressed either one of them.

If you want the "real deal" Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics is a good start.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bryan+Litz

https://www.youtube.com/c/AppliedBallisticsLLC

https://www.facebook.com/bryan.litz.3

https://www.facebook.com/BryanLitzBallistics

[sukivel]

What distance does one consider long range?

For me ballistics isn’t the issue, as one can always use more gun, but when you pull the trigger and the animal takes 3 steps before impact, that’s probably not a quality shot.

Also for me, hunting is primal, so sniping a deer at 600 yards where he can’t see me, smell me, or hear me is not the experience I am looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

Well I see where this post is going already

[Wolfdog91]

What distance does one consider long range?

For me ballistics isn’t the issue, as one can always use more gun, but when you pull the trigger and the animal takes 3 steps before impact, that’s probably not a quality shot.

Also for me, hunting is primal, so sniping a deer at 600 yards where he can’t see me, smell me, or hear me is not the experience I am looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well that really depends. Not something that you can just pin a number on. I guess first thing would be to look at there your shooting. I mean if I'm somewhere like Wyoming a average shot might be 300yd because is plains and everyone is running 260rems. Where as here in Ms that same 300yd might be across three pastures and that can be long range for us...
Idk guess you could look at to to where you perticular load is running maybe. Or it could , and this is what I think is the most appropriate, is what you as a shooter consider. I routinely shoot my .22lr at the range and have deer hunters tell me I'm at long range because I'm slapping small plates @100yd. To them that's long range. That's their limit and that perfectly fine.
And if long range shooting just isn't something youd like to do , that perfectly fine as well. Hunting is something different for everyone. Personally it's a mix for me. On one had I like hunting hogs with night vision and all that on the other I like stalking small game with a air rifle and on another I love the ideal of long range. But the idea of just sitting in a box stand looking at a food plot just dosent seem like hunting to me.but it's different for others and that just plain fine.

And I gotta say if someone can't hit what their aiming at at a certain range they shouldn't be hunting at that range. Bow gun spear whatever.

[sukivel]

Well that really depends. Not something that you can just pin a number on. I guess first thing would be to look at there your shooting. I mean if I'm somewhere like Wyoming a average shot might be 300yd because is plains and everyone is running 260rems. Where as here in Ms that same 300yd might be across three pastures and that can be long range for us...
Idk guess you could look at to to where you perticular load is running maybe. Or it could , and this is what I think is the most appropriate, is what you as a shooter consider. I routinely shoot my .22lr at the range and have deer hunters tell me I'm at long range because I'm slapping small plates @100yd. To them that's long range. That's their limit and that perfectly fine.
And if long range shooting just isn't something youd like to do , that perfectly fine as well. Hunting is something different for everyone. Personally it's a mix for me. On one had I like hunting hogs with night vision and all that on the other I like stalking small game with a air rifle and on another I love the ideal of long range. But the idea of just sitting in a box stand looking at a food plot just dosent seem like hunting to me.but it's different for others and that just plain fine.

And I gotta say if someone can't hit what their aiming at at a certain range they shouldn't be hunting at that range. Bow gun spear whatever.

Yeah I agree. I do hunt predators farther as well. Especially coyotes…


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[farmbif]

after viewing the video that the real gunsmith posted showing how he straightens a barrel by smacking it against a log was the last time I thought about viewing any of the videos he posts. some of the best shooters and proven experts at long range shooting seem to share lots of knowledge at the accurate shooter web site and also at longrangehunting forum. there are also some pretty darn good long range shooting experts that share knowledge right here on this site. YouTube is a mixed bag and quite often a quest for the almighty dollar that ends up driving the motivation for many posters there. a couple guys on there that seems to really know what they talk about is Paul harrel and hickock45 those are just 2 of many that ive noticed to be no nonsense.

[Hannibal]

Well I see where this post is going already

Yep. Same place it's gone on the other forums you posted it on. Imagine that.

[Wolfdog91]

Yep. Same place it's gone on the other forums you posted it on. Imagine that.

Lol what can I say I'm a little addicted to sharing stuff I find interesting especially if I find it well made and explained

[NSB]

Well I see where this post is going already
Do the math on a long shot. I’m not impressed with someone who can hit a stationary target at long distances….I can do that myself. An animal takes one small step and by the time the bullet gets there it’s a miss or a very bad hit. Shooting like that becomes unethical. A game animal deserves better than that. Sorry, but I don’t consider this “hunting”.

[Thumbcocker]

I am impressed by long range marksmanship. But to me shooting and hunting are different. If you want to impress me as a shooter tell me how far you were. If you want to impress me as a hunter, tell me how close you got.

[redneck1]

I'm not a hunter so my opinion can vary on the situation , if your hungry and trying to feed yourself or your family there's no place for ethics . If a 600 yard hail Mary is your opportunity you take it .

Hunting for sport is an entire different matter . If your taking a chance you shouldn't be pulling the trigger period .

That's just how I see it .

[Hannibal]

Lol what can I say I'm a little addicted to sharing stuff I find interesting especially if I find it well made and explained

Don't be surprised and complain when others see it through different eyes. Just because someone can do something and it turns out as expected doesn't automatically mean it was a wise choice.

I've found dead game animals on multiple occasions that were obviously poorly shot. Worst one I remember was a dead deer lying in a creek with the front of it's head shot off. Apparently it died trying to get a drink that had become an impossible task because someone tried something they shouldn't have. Gruesome doesn't begin to cover it.

If you aren't open to other opinions then I'd suggest not asking for them.

[veeman]

I am impressed by long range marksmanship. But to me shooting and hunting are different. If you want to impress me as a shooter tell me how far you were. If you want to impress me as a hunter, tell me how close you got.
^^^
Yes, this!

[Soundguy]

Also for me, hunting is primal, so sniping a deer at 600 yards where he can’t see me, smell me, or hear me is not the experience I am looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed... the animal has to be 'all in'.. and the human has no skin in the game when you are hunting at extreme range.

I like stalking.. I like 'yardage' shots... IE.. ones where the animal can come visit you if he wants. And that includes handgun hunting and express double rifles that regulate at 50-75 yards.. etc...

[Soundguy]

I am impressed by long range marksmanship. But to me shooting and hunting are different. If you want to impress me as a shooter tell me how far you were. If you want to impress me as a hunter, tell me how close you got.

This ^^^^^

[Soundguy]

Lol what can I say I'm a little addicted to sharing stuff I find interesting especially if I find it well made and explained


From these couple posts.. can we assume that you are 'anti close range hunting" ?

[waksupi]

after viewing the video that the real gunsmith posted showing how he straightens a barrel by smacking it against a log was the last time I thought about viewing any of the videos he posts. some of the best shooters and proven experts at long range shooting seem to share lots of knowledge at the accurate shooter web site and also at longrangehunting forum. there are also some pretty darn good long range shooting experts that share knowledge right here on this site. YouTube is a mixed bag and quite often a quest for the almighty dollar that ends up driving the motivation for many posters there. a couple guys on there that seems to really know what they talk about is Paul harrel and hickock45 those are just 2 of many that ive noticed to be no nonsense.

I have a tree outside my shop specially trained for straightening barrels. It works. I know several other old time gun builders who do the same. Pretty easy to do, if you know how to read what you are doing on the inside of the barrel.

[waksupi]

I have noticed over the years, the long range competition shooters I have shot with, know the limitations caused by wind and unpredictable animal movement, and won't take what would be considered a long shot at game. I find no good cause to shoot when you can't be sure of the result. I've killed antelope with revolvers and smooth bore flintlocks. Close is hunting, and if you want to impress me, tell me how close you got.
I've also had the experience of someone telling me about the 600 yard shot they made on a deer. Take them to a thousand yard range, and they cut the distance they shot considerably, when they actually see how for that is.

[414gates]

Long range hunters don't impress me.

Headshots on deer at one mile posted on Youtube fail to impress me.

Randy Selby impresses me. Everything about Randy Selby as a hunter and a gunsmith impresses me.

It should be pretty obvious that there really is no such thing as long range hunting.

There is only hunting.

1. can you reliably place a kill shot at that distance

2. will your bullet retain enough energy to make a quick kill if placed correctly

3. can you reliably find the animal for a follow-up shot if you wound it

Shooting at animals far away and hoping for a hit is new generation entitled snowflake crap.

[dverna]

Many good perspectives. I saw some stuff posted here about the "real gunsmith" many months ago and did not bother opening the links in the first post....I am not impressed with the guy.

But I do enjoy seeing what others on the forum think.

As to hunting vs shooting, I see it this way. You can shoot a critter without doing much hunting, but you cannot hunt a critter without shooting. Most people will not develop the skills or put in the time and effort to "hunt" like an Indian. Many "hunters" I know bait deer/bear or run dogs on bears and smaller critters. BTW running dogs is not for everyone and it is not as "effortless" as some people think. I live in an area of Michigan hillbillies, and I have met some great hunters but not one good shooter. A good hunter does not need much shooting skill, a precision rifle, or finely tuned handloads.

Anyway, for me, I have established an ethical range that matches my shooting ability and the caliber. I used to be a decent rifle shot, but physical issues have reduced my ability to hold well enough to take an off-hand shot at more than 100 yards on a deer. Out of a blind or in a prone position, 400 yards (with little wind) is my limit with the .308.

IMO many people taking long shots are not capable of doing it ethically. There was a guy who posted about downing a deer at 265 yards with a .45LC. That was not an ethical shot with the equipment he used, but it would not be a "long shot" with a .308.

The long range mentality is easy to buy into especially for shooters. How many sit at the loading and shooting bench for hours developing a MOA or better load, then more hours over a chronograph chasing a low SD combination of the bullet and powder the barrel "likes". And then add in a couple of "ladder tests" because that is what the precision rifle guys are doing. Never mind the meticulous case prep needed to get there...wherever "there" is. Just a waste of time and resources if you are not going to shoot a deer past 400 yards, or coyotes past 300 yards, etc etc. IMO it is akin to guys who reload pistol ammunition on a single stage press and weigh their charges...in the words of our ex Sec of State, "What difference does it make?"

All that effort generates a NEED to make the long shot to brag about it, and to "prove" it was all worthwhile and "necessary". Long range shooting is rarely a necessity, but it boosts the ego so people do it. Have you ever read about the shortest sniper kill in history?.....I think not.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Shooting at targets at long range is interesting and fun. Once you know all the things that can happen while the bullet is in the air, hunting living animals, that can MOVE becomes a different matter. Another factor, previously mentioned, was what most folks think long range is. Hearing someone comment about an extreme long range shot on a 200 yard shot over broken ground reveals the true lack of knowledge of many shooters. I do shoot at prairie rats, whatever the range, and will take 'chancy' shots at fawn killing coyotes. Again, previously mentioned, finding animals in timber and open sage can be hard, even when range is short. An elk shot dead at 60 yards, may run a couple hundred yards before falling with little opportunity for follow-up shots, antelope just drop in the sage at 100 yards and take an hour to find just walking back and forth passing by 20 feet away, shooting long range means real problems finding your game, EVEN IF you made a good shot with enough gun. Hunting from stands in controlled environments, open farmland, food plots is very different than National Forest or BLM sagebrush where the wind always blows, in several directions at the same time and the game travels miles every day.

[Electrod47]

Long range target work is something I have always admired. The skill and precision required takes a lot of hard work. But, overlay that same cold calculation in the taking of game, not named Osama Bin Ladin, turns me off.

[Tazman1602]

………… IMO it is akin to guys who reload pistol ammunition on a single stage press and weigh their charges...in the words of our ex Sec of State, "What difference does it make?"

All that effort generates a NEED to make the long shot to brag about it, and to "prove" it was all worthwhile and "necessary". Long range shooting is rarely a necessity, but it boosts the ego so people do it. Have you ever read about the shortest sniper kill in history?.....I think not.

Good post Don and I agree. I live a few miles north of you I think and I can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve heard “YESSIR I shot that buck with a 25-06 on a dead run at 750 yards with the wind howling (or take your pick here…) and dropped it right in its tracks…)” uh-huh. Northern Michigan, in the woods, even as a young man walking miles and miles through the woods have I ever seen a decent shot on a deer that was over *maybe* 150 yards.

As far as blind hunting, I have 80 acres to hunt on with more and more people encroaching every year. The only way we can get Venison is to sit in the heated blind and wait — and that wait has been days at times with idiots chasing the deer all over the county…

As far as long range hunting goes, our local club has a gong at 500 yards and I just love shooting 4-500 grain bullets at that thing and listening to the hit. If someone really wants a thrill, try doing that with vernier sights on a 45-70 or 90, being in your mid 60’s and having hunted with a scope for most of your life. Maybe I’m strange but hearing that “bang” on the steel excites the heck out of me —- but that ain’t hunting….to each his own!

Art

[Wolfdog91]

From these couple posts.. can we assume that you are 'anti close range hunting" ?

Lol excuse ? I'll just take that as sarcasm lol. No if you can drop a critter with one shot and know your limits I'm fine with it . Shooting deer point blank in the deep woods takes a skill set just like long range imo.

[Wolfdog91]

Don't be surprised and complain when others see it through different eyes. Just because someone can do something and it turns out as expected doesn't automatically mean it was a wise choice.

I've found dead game animals on multiple occasions that were obviously poorly shot. Worst one I remember was a dead deer lying in a creek with the front of it's head shot off. Apparently it died trying to get a drink that had become an impossible task because someone tried something they shouldn't have. Gruesome doesn't begin to cover it.

If you aren't open to other opinions then I'd suggest not asking for them.

Well I'm not sure where this is going from but did you think I posted this on this forum and expect everyone to be on board? I would honestly be suprised if I didn't get the type responses I'm getting front this crowd. And before that's taken out of context ,no I'm not saying that's bad, or people can have their own thoughts or peoel arnt experience or that in some master wizbang hunter or something it's the comments are just predictable. Like seriously why do you think I posted this ? Trust me if I wanted pats on the back or everyone to just agree I would have just gone to a different site.
Honestly I thought it was a good break down , felt the guy had alot of experience and maybe someone would possibly enjoy it. It's really that simple.
And further more where have I shown I'm not open to others opinions? It's not like I've told anyone their wrong or anything.

[MT Gianni]

Thanks for posting it. I rarely spend time watching videos but this forum is a place to share them. If it's shooting related and can help someone increase performance it's all good.

[Tazman1602]

……And further more where have I shown I'm not open to others opinions? .

Hey Wolfie I thought they were good vids dude, everyone’s got an opinion on everything I guess…don’t know where the sarcasm comes from, keep posting!

Art

[405grain]

I personally wouldn't take a shot at a game animal at a range that I don't feel confident at. But.... I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take long shots at sage rats. Varminting for ground squirrels, ground hogs, badgers and prairie dogs is just pest control. If you want to try long shots on critters, the best ones to do it with are the ones that cause crop damage, and are livestock pests.

[dverna]

I personally wouldn't take a shot at a game animal at a range that I don't feel confident at. But.... I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take long shots at sage rats. Varminting for ground squirrels, ground hogs, badgers and prairie dogs is just pest control. If you want to try long shots on critters, the best ones to do it with are the ones that cause crop damage, and are livestock pests.

Exactly. With small pest like that, using varmint bullets, it is normally a clean miss or a hit that is instant death or a quick death. It bothers me when a deer hit in the boiler room goes 100 yards, but it happens. I have found deer that died a slow death because some yahoo wounded them.

[todd9.3x57]

I am impressed by long range marksmanship. But to me shooting and hunting are different. If you want to impress me as a shooter tell me how far you were. If you want to impress me as a hunter, tell me how close you got.

i like this one too!!!!!

i have shot one doe at 365+/- yards and one buck at 12 feet. the doe made me feel like taking a shower to get the "dirt" off of me. the buck made me feel like i was a hunter. most of the deer i killed were around 20 - 40 yards away. 10 or so years ago, i went to cast boolits. jacketed bullets just weren't for me anymore.

using cast, i shoot deer at 150 yards or less. if the deer comes out and its range is 175 yards, then i say "oh well" and let it go. i'm disabled now and i sit in my blind and drink coffee. if a deer shows up, it has to be a bigger deer (body wise). if a yearling or a 2 year old deer shows up, then "oh well" and let it go. i miss deer hunting like i used to. i would go out into the woods and stalk deer. dang stroke!!! now i climb into my side by side, go about a mile into the woods, park the utv, hobble about 60 yards and sit down on a stool in my blind and drink coffee.

[versa-06]

I would think that the smell of coffee would alert a mindful old buck?

[Hannibal]

In years past I've had them walk within 50 yards while I was smoking a cigarette, drinking coffee and had pissed around the base of the tree I was sitting in. So pretty much doing everything wrong.

Movement and hunting pressure seemed to be the biggest factors as while I had these encounters in early fall small game hunting the same never happened during deer season. Probably should have taken up muzzleloaders years ago, but I was young and impatient. Now I'm old and grumpy.

So it goes.

[waksupi]

Many good perspectives. I saw some stuff posted here about the "real gunsmith" many months ago and did not bother opening the links in the first post....I am not impressed with the guy.

But I do enjoy seeing what others on the forum think.

As to hunting vs shooting, I see it this way. You can shoot a critter without doing much hunting, but you cannot hunt a critter without shooting. Most people will not develop the skills or put in the time and effort to "hunt" like an Indian. Many "hunters" I know bait deer/bear or run dogs on bears and smaller critters. BTW running dogs is not for everyone and it is not as "effortless" as some people think. I live in an area of Michigan hillbillies, and I have met some great hunters but not one good shooter. A good hunter does not need much shooting skill, a precision rifle, or finely tuned handloads.

Anyway, for me, I have established an ethical range that matches my shooting ability and the caliber. I used to be a decent rifle shot, but physical issues have reduced my ability to hold well enough to take an off-hand shot at more than 100 yards on a deer. Out of a blind or in a prone position, 400 yards (with little wind) is my limit with the .308.

IMO many people taking long shots are not capable of doing it ethically. There was a guy who posted about downing a deer at 265 yards with a .45LC. That was not an ethical shot with the equipment he used, but it would not be a "long shot" with a .308.

The long range mentality is easy to buy into especially for shooters. How many sit at the loading and shooting bench for hours developing a MOA or better load, then more hours over a chronograph chasing a low SD combination of the bullet and powder the barrel "likes". And then add in a couple of "ladder tests" because that is what the precision rifle guys are doing. Never mind the meticulous case prep needed to get there...wherever "there" is. Just a waste of time and resources if you are not going to shoot a deer past 400 yards, or coyotes past 300 yards, etc etc. IMO it is akin to guys who reload pistol ammunition on a single stage press and weigh their charges...in the words of our ex Sec of State, "What difference does it make?"

All that effort generates a NEED to make the long shot to brag about it, and to "prove" it was all worthwhile and "necessary". Long range shooting is rarely a necessity, but it boosts the ego so people do it. Have you ever read about the shortest sniper kill in history?.....I think not.

All the youngsters think they are "snipers". A friend of mine was a sniper on the Mekong Delta, under David Hackworth, and was written about in his book, "Steel the Soldiers Heart". He said he never took a shot, or made a kill over 350 yards. His kills were up around Carlos Hathcock's numbers.

[Larry Gibson]

I do a lot of long range shooting, for fun, in matches, varmint shooting and in military SOTIC use. I also have taken several deer and elk at "long range". Long range is a relative term as previously mentioned. For hunting, I establish a "maximum range" under the best field conditions of wind, weather, position and impact velocity with my own hunting rifles. That range is established by quite a bit of actual shooting from field positions at those ranges. It is not determined by ballistic charts or programs. Albeit, I do use a ballistic program to determine the maximum range where sufficient velocity is retained for some bullet expansion. With that knowledge of my own ability I can take a long range shot within my own set "maximum range" if no other possibility of getting closer is available. I also use 24 or 26'" barreled accurate rifles (usually a 30-06 with 180 or 190 gr Hornady SPBTs) that have repeatable adjustable elevations. A laser range finder is also used for longer shots.

With such, hunting in NE Oregon high canyon country I have shot one deer at 600 yards but most have been much closer with most under 200 yards. Even then, most of them never knew I was there including many shot well under 100 yards. In NE Oregon I have shot elk from 25 to 478 yards. During general season, usually just 10 - 14 days long and the first week end is very crowded, on public land there is no "stalking" as such because hunters can be everywhere. Also a good pair of running shoes is needed because if you do put a deer or elk down it can be a race to it to tag it before another "hunter" does.....seriously.

There are many different ways and methods of "hunting". Having enforced game laws and worked ranges during "sighting in days" along with observing the actions of "hunters" during hunting I have seen far more animals injured/wounded by nimrods just blazing away at the animal or worse, even a herd of animals. Many such nimrods are "over gunned/over scoped" with super magnum cartridges. A few of them talk about a "long shot" but very few actually even try it. Those that I have encountered in the fields actually trying such a long shot are most often well prepared both with ability and equipment.
Couses deer hunting here in Arizona is a good example. Some years back when I drew a once in a lifetime Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep tag for a unit in the Eagle cap Wilderness Area in NE Oregon I was prepared with my '06 for a long range "across the canyon" shot we all read about. Fact is, when the shot on a beatiful full curl ram presented itself it was, indeed, "across a canyon". It was straight across and high above Billy Jones Lake actually. However, the range was "only" 246 yards. I set the scope elevation at 250 (an older Redfield AccuTrac 9x9) and aimed a spot where the bullet would go through the ram's heart. The bullet hit 1" right of the small spot and the Ram died right there. Could I have gotten closer? No way and if I tried I probably would not have filled that once in a life tag.

301483

I do not intentionally go out to "snipe" at big game and I do not criticize those that are prepared to do it. However, where I hunt (or used to anyway) I am prepared to shoot out to what I have determined is my own "maximum range" for the animal hunted.

[dtknowles]

Do the math on a long shot. I’m not impressed with someone who can hit a stationary target at long distances….I can do that myself. An animal takes one small step and by the time the bullet gets there it’s a miss or a very bad hit. Shooting like that becomes unethical. A game animal deserves better than that. Sorry, but I don’t consider this “hunting”.

Regarding "by the time the bullet gets there it’s a miss or a very bad hit."

Bullet time of flight Muzzle to Animal.

30-30 at 150 yards 220 milliseconds

30-06 at 300 yards 354 milliseconds

25-06 at 500 yards 588 milliseconds

The difference is a small fraction of a second

average human reaction time may fall between 200-250ms

A slow walk is 3 feet per second. If the animal is moving and you don't lead it even at 150 yards with 30-30 your bullet will miss your point of aim by a number of inches.

Longer the range the more potential for error. Time of flight is just one factor and not the most problematic.

Tim

[Hannibal]

Regarding "by the time the bullet gets there it’s a miss or a very bad hit."

Bullet time of flight Muzzle to Animal.

30-30 at 150 yards 220 milliseconds

30-06 at 300 yards 354 milliseconds

25-06 at 500 yards 588 milliseconds

The difference is a small fraction of a second

average human reaction time may fall between 200-250ms

A slow walk is 3 feet per second. If the animal is moving and you don't lead it even at 150 yards with 30-30 your bullet will miss your point of aim by a number of inches.

Longer the range the more potential for error. Time of flight is just one factor and not the most problematic.

Tim

This is arguing over semantics. To make an accurate shot at distance requires time. Add in wind, light conditions and a target that is not necessarily going to remain stationary and the difficulty increases exponentially. If it were easy everyone could do it with minimal effort.

It's not easy and more people who can't try anyway than people who can and decided not to. That's the point.

[NSB]

I’ve been big game hunting for sixty-one years and I’ve shot and killed over two-hundred deer in that time. I can’t even begin to tell you how many dead deer I’ve found that were hit poorly. Many hunters aren’t the best of shots to begin with. Many will shoot at anything they can see and have no idea where to hold. Add some Adrenalin on top of that and those “snipers” wound a lot of game. I don’t encourage “long range” hunting shots. Some can, most can’t.

[M-Tecs]

Regarding "by the time the bullet gets there it’s a miss or a very bad hit."

Bullet time of flight Muzzle to Animal.

30-30 at 150 yards 220 milliseconds

30-06 at 300 yards 354 milliseconds

25-06 at 500 yards 588 milliseconds

The difference is a small fraction of a second

average human reaction time may fall between 200-250ms

A slow walk is 3 feet per second. If the animal is moving and you don't lead it even at 150 yards with 30-30 your bullet will miss your point of aim by a number of inches.

Longer the range the more potential for error. Time of flight is just one factor and not the most problematic.

Tim

Time of flight calculations need to account for the bullet deceleration. There are some very good ballistic calculations available.

The following is a 1000 yard 30-06 ballistic charting of a Remington 30-06 Springfield 165 Grain AccuTip Boat Tail with a BC (Ballistic Coefficient) of .447. At a 1,000 yards time of flight is 1.67 seconds. Wind drift will be around 97 inches with a 10 mph full value wind speed. Time of flight verse animal movement is a very real issue at distance. A fast walk for a human is 6 to 8 mph. Ten feet per second is 6.818 mph. With the 30/06 load above a 1/2 second time of flight gets you to 400 yard. A human doing a fast walk will have moved 5 feet between when the bullet leaves the bore and impacts.

http://gundata.org/blog/post/30-06-ballistics-chart/

Range (yards) Drop (inches) Velocity Energy Time (seconds)
0 -1.4936 2800 2872 0.00
50 -0.1498 2697 2664 0.05
100 -0.0014 2597 2471 0.11
150 -1.1424 2499 2288 0.17
200 -3.6756 2403 2115 0.23
250 -7.7145 2310 1955 0.30
300 -13.3837 2218 1802 0.36
350 -20.8209 2128 1659 0.43
400 -30.1783 2041 1526 0.50
450 -41.6244 1955 1400 0.58
500 -55.3455 1872 1284 0.66
550 -71.5482 1791 1175 0.74
600 -90.4615 1713 1075 0.82
650 -112.3382 1638 983 0.91
700 -137.4574 1565 897 1.01
750 -166.1264 1496 820 1.11
800 -198.6823 1429 748 1.21
850 -235.4931 1367 685 1.32
900 -276.9573 1308 627 1.43
950 -323.5005 1254 576 1.54
1000 -375.5708 1204 531 1.67

The following is a ballistics chart in table format that details the bullet trajectory of a 30-30 Winchester 150 grain HP X30301 and a ballistic coefficient of .218. The 30-30 Winchester 150 gr. Super-X Hollow Point has stated muzzle velocity of 2390 fps. Time of flight at 150 yards is 0.21 seconds. Three mph equal 4.4 fps or 52.8 inches per second. That equals 11.08 inches of target movement. That equals a gut shot (if the no lead point of aim was center lungs) if you don't lead for the 3 mph target movement. Yes it a matter of inches. 11.08 inches to be specific with a 30/30 at 150 yards with 150 grain bullets. With 170's it will be more.

http://gundata.org/blog/post/30-30-ballistics-chart/

Range (yards) Drop (inches) Velocity Energy Time (seconds)
0 -1.4918 2389 1901 0.00
50 0.1579 2200 1612 0.07
100 0.0066 2019 1357 0.14
150 -2.2832 1847 1136 0.21
200 -7.1273 1686 947 0.30
250 -15.0375 1537 787 0.39
300 -26.6388 1400 653 0.50
350 -42.6823 1280 546 0.61
400 -64.0386 1178 462 0.73
450 -91.6529 1098 401 0.86
500 -126.4703 1036 357 1.00
550 -169.3828 986 324 1.15
600 -221.2253 945 297 1.31
650 -283.0148 909 275 1.47
700 -355.1177 877 256 1.64
750 -438.4924 848 239 1.81
800 -534.2516 822 225 1.99
850 -642.5465 797 212 2.18
900 -764.9061 773 199 2.37
950 -901.8221 751 188 2.57
1000 -1,054.1505 730 177 2.77

This was a bow kill a while back. It scored 126 so it just made book. One of my coworkers was losing several deer a season. He didn't have a clue as to actual deer sizes.

301493

301494

[Thumbcocker]

" I've killed antelope with revolvers and smooth bore flintlocks. Close is hunting, and if you want to impress me, tell me how close you got."

Respect

[Larry Gibson]

To be honest, I don't hunt to impress him nor anyone else. I hunt to kill an animal as quickly and cleanly as possible regardless of the range of the shot. If i don't have 100% confidence of the shot accomplishing that regardless of the range, then I don't take it.

[Electrod47]

A Humane kill is paramount to me. I have passed on 100 yard shots where the angle isn't quite right to guarantee that. And, I needed that deer. Even as a boy, if I noticed one the the fish on my stringer fighting it while the others gave up, I'd set him loose. There has to be some fairness.

[HWooldridge]

Not related to game but relevant to loooong range:

A few years ago, I bought a nice Savage model 10 in 7mm-08, with a custom heavy stainless barrel and a 4-14x Burris scope. I’d always wanted a rifle in this caliber and it came at a good price from a collection that contained a Sako 308 with Unertl scope/rings and a Remington 40-X in 308.

I went out to my 125 yd range to check zero and initially had no idea where the bullets were landing. Finally, I aimed at the ground noticed a hit higher up. The previous owner had the scope set almost 18” high at that distance so I have no idea how far he was shooting. I was worried the scope wouldn’t internally adjust that much for me but I was able to bring it down and there was no windage offset.

The rifle shoots dime size groups at 125 yds with Federal factory ammo and 139 gr pills - it’s taken several deer with one shot each. All dropped where hit without running.

[M-Tecs]

" I've killed antelope with revolvers and smooth bore flintlocks. Close is hunting, and if you want to impress me, tell me how close you got."

Respect

Years ago I did metal work for a trade gun builder. He invited me to go on an antelope hunt in Wyoming using one of his smoothbore flintlock trade guns. We sat in a blind over a water hole. It was the only water in the area. The antelope knew something wasn't right but they got so thirsty they came in anyway. We both got nice bucks but that was the least sporting "hunt" I have ever been on. That was the first and last time I "hunted" over a water hole. Never shot one with a revolver but I have taken them with a Contender in 357 Herrett and with recurve and compound bows mostly staking use a 2D decoy.

Slob hunter are slob hunters and they are everywhere there are hunters. The get close types have slob hunters and the long range types have slob hunters. Personal observations with years of party hunting is the 30/30 type "touch the rifle once a year" guys wounded a very high percentage of deer.

I lost my first deer with a bow in 1970 at the age of 10. It bothered me greatly. Between deer and antelope with the bow I have killed about 80 without a loss. With the rifle I have lost one out of 200 plus. It was less than a 75 yard standing shot. I hit a branch maybe 10 yards in front of the deer.

I am mostly colorblind and at best I am a poor tracker. I normally limit my game animal shooting yardages to 1/2 or less of my actually shooting abilities. I have finished game wounded by others in the 500 and 600 yard ranges. I have killed prairie dogs at over 1,000 yards and coyotes at over 600 yards so I do apply different standards for some varmints.

Not my place to judge others and their methods if they are cleanly killing their game. I respect good hunter period. Slob hunters not so much.

I hunt within my limitations period.

[todd9.3x57]

I would think that the smell of coffee would alert a mindful old buck?

i am disabled(right arm/leg are kaput) so the old mindful buck days are gone. i go for meat nowadays. if the deer is big enuff body wise, i'll shoot. if its a yearling, it goes away for another day.

i used to smoke cigarettes during my hunt and pee on the ground and i still killed deer.

[M-Tecs]

I would think that the smell of coffee would alert a mindful old buck?

One of my dads buddies in the 70's had a tree stand maybe 400 or 500 yards from mine. He smoked cherry flavored pipe tobacco. If the wind was right I could smell it when he lit up. I figured it would spook all the deer away. Actually I knew it would since I read all the hunting and gun rags of the time and that what they claimed would happen.

It was just the opposite. The deer would get curious and walk right up to his stand. Big buck, does and fawns all did the same. I could see them move but there was heavy brush and trees so my shots were limited.

[waksupi]

Years ago I did metal work for a trade gun builder. He invited me to go on an antelope hunt in Wyoming using one of his smoothbore flintlock trade guns. We sat in a blind over a water hole. It was the only water in the area. The antelope knew something wasn't right but they got so thirsty they came in anyway. We both got nice bucks but that was the least sporting "hunt" I have ever been on. That was the first and last time I "hunted" over a water hole. Never shot one with a revolver but I have taken them with a Contender in 357 Herrett and with recurve and compound bows mostly staking use a 2D decoy.

Slob hunter are slob hunters and they are everywhere there are hunters. The get close types have slob hunters and the long range types have slob hunters. Personal observations with years of party hunting is the 30/30 type "touch the rifle once a year" guys wounded a very high percentage of deer.

I lost my first deer with a bow in 1970 at the age of 10. It bothered me greatly. Between deer and antelope with the bow I have killed about 80 without a loss. With the rifle I have lost one out of 200 plus. It was less than a 75 yard standing shot. I hit a branch maybe 10 yards in front of the deer.

I am mostly colorblind and at best I am a poor tracker. I normally limit my game animal shooting yardages to 1/2 or less of my actually shooting abilities. I have finished game wounded by others in the 500 and 600 yard ranges. I have killed prairie dogs at over 1,000 yards and coyotes at over 600 yards so I do apply different standards for some varmints.

Not my place to judge others and their methods if they are cleanly killing their game. I respect good hunter period. Slob hunters not so much.

I hunt within my limitations period.

I rate tree stands with blinds. The hunting shows with guys shooting deer from blinds over bait disgust me.

[M-Tecs]

I rate tree stands with blinds. The hunting shows with guys shooting deer from blinds over bait disgust me.

What you or I find "proper" doesn't matter. As long as it's legal. If I don't like that method I don't use it. If I really don't like the law I can and have gone to the state legislator and had it changed. I have done that three times.

I mostly deer hunt will archery. I really enjoy the hours I spend in the tree stand. I use a ground blind for archey turkey hunting and I enjoy that also. Same for using a blind goose hunting. Your approval is not required.

[Hannibal]

I rate tree stands with blinds. The hunting shows with guys shooting deer from blinds over bait disgust me.

I preferred tree stands during regular rifle season just to help me get a bit above potential lines of fire. Hearing a bullet whizzing overhead is a bit ...... unsettling. One of the reasons I quit deer hunting, too. Hunting baited areas in my home state is illegal and I agree that it should be with the exception of feral hogs.

That said, based on hunting accident reports if someone convinces someone else to climb a tree to flush a squirrel that someone else is going to get shot.

Not sure where people get their ideas or where they come from but apparently they are out there.

[popper]

TV show of the football player and GF. He shot a 'goat' from 400 so yds, over a river. Had the knowhow - most don't. GF dropped the rifle and bumped the scope, missing most shots. Know your limits.

[kerplode]

If you have the skill and equipment to cleanly kill a game animal at whatever given range you're comfortable shooting it at, then I have no problem with it. Be it 25 or 2500 yards. There are many that can and do make clean kills at extended distances. But...

Given the popularity and attention that "long range hunting" gets these days on TV and the internwebs, there are quite a few people experimenting with it that have neither the skill nor equipment required. These are the goobers that shoot elk in the hind quarters at 800 yards and leave them to suffer because they're too lazy to cross the canyon to go look. This is where I have an issue with "long range hunting"

But not all "short range hunters" are worth a damn either. I worked with a guy about 15 years ago that got into bow hunting. One season, he shot arrows into 6 different cow elk and didn't recover any of them. He claimed the longest shot was around 30 yards. He'd stick them, then look for a bit, then declare "oh well, better luck next time" and try again the next Saturday. After we found out, we teased him mercilessly for "stick and release" hunting. What a *******. Those animals deserved better.

[todd9.3x57]

I rate tree stands with blinds. The hunting shows with guys shooting deer from blinds over bait disgust me.

i'm glad that you don't make laws. us disabled people have a hard time as it is. PA doesn't use bait, its illegal. i used to love tree stands. i'd use them for bow and rifle season. my ground blind is 4"x4"'s screwed together to make a box. then some camo netting and staplers. then i weave sticks (well, my brother) thru the netting. then in the middle of that, there is hunting swivel chair. i used the ladder stand minus the ladder, but the tree fell over on it. i have another ladder stand minus the ladder out in the woods, but i haven't used it in 4 or 5 years.

[versa-06]

What's the difference in hiding behind a blind, & hiding behind a cedar or a bush? When you stalk you look for concealment, Right?

[versa-06]

By the way, I'm disabled too. Wish I weren't, but that is the way it is.

[todd9.3x57]

By the way, I'm disabled too. Wish I weren't, but that is the way it is.


yep, i agree with ya!!! i'd be happy if i could stroll around in the woods, but my right arm/leg is kaput due to a bad stroke. i can gimp around a little bit, but fallen trees and branches, hills and stuff like that don't let me gimp pretty far. even so, i drive my polaris utv back into the woods on a trail, i get out and gimp my way uphill to my blind. i'm ecstatic to see a deer, let alone shooting one. if i do shoot, i can put my winch on a tree(gummy straps) and pull it to my polaris or i can wait for my brother to show up and drag it out. i love seeing the deer, shooting a deer, not so much.;-)

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, believe it or not, smacking a slightly bent barrel on something like a tree was an accepted and taught skill at Colorado School of Trades when I went through their gunsmithing course in 1981-82. They had their favorite sort of spongy telephone pole (still in use with the wires) as the immovable object. It's a learned skill. You have to look through the shiny bore toward something like a heavy phone wire that will make a reflection line down the bore and look for where the line changes angles slightly, and that's where the bend is. Then you smack it on the opposite side to bend it back toward center. Or, this can be done by just observing the light shining through a barrel with the right lighting conditions. In the old time gun factories they had a device that looked much like a spoked steering wheel crossways on top of a steel pole like a "T". The barrel straightening workman would place the barrel through the rim and one of the spokes and look through it out of a window or toward a light, observe where the line changed direction, and pull down on the barrel-- a bend instead of a whack. I have straightened several shotgun barrels using the whack technique, but not a rifle barrel.

DG

[M-Tecs]

Well, believe it or not, smacking a slightly bent barrel on something like a tree was an accepted and taught skill at Colorado School of Trades when I went through their gunsmithing course in 1981-82. They had their favorite sort of spongy telephone pole (still in use with the wires) as the immovable object. It's a learned skill. You have to look through the shiny bore toward something like a heavy phone wire that will make a reflection line down the bore and look for where the line changes angles slightly, and that's where the bend is. Then you smack it on the opposite side to bend it back toward center. Or, this can be done by just observing the light shining through a barrel with the right lighting conditions. In the old time gun factories they had a device that looked much like a spoked steering wheel crossways on top of a steel pole like a "T". The barrel straightening workman would place the barrel through the rim and one of the spokes and look through it out of a window or toward a light, observe where the line changed direction, and pull down on the barrel-- a bend instead of a whack. I have straightened several shotgun barrels using the whack technique, but not a rifle barrel.

DG

It's probably still taught today. As you indicated using light rings works but I find it easier on smoothbores than it is on rifled barrels. On shotgun barrels using too hard of wood you can dent the barrel. I've had to remove dents on several. Owners were trying to adjust POI. Tires were also commonly used. I use to see both methods used a lot on trap ranges in the 70's and early 80's.

There are much more professional methods if you have a mill and a lathe available. Shotgun barrels tend not to walk even if they have series on bends in them. I've been told it's the same for the softer steel muzzleloader barrels but I've never straighten one. On 4130/4140/400 series SS rifles barrels not so much. The wack-a-pole/tire method tends to produce a series of bends verse actually removing the original bend in a professional manor. If you don't care about POI walking or accuracy than it's a good method for rifle barrels................

A good thread here with pics of the Savage press: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?117229-Barrel-straightening

One of the Castboolits members did a nice fixture for doing shotgun barrels. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?372348-Shotgun-barrel-bending-jig-change-POI&p=4518897#post4518897

[Edward]

I rate tree stands with blinds. The hunting shows with guys shooting deer from blinds over bait disgust me.

Snobs are like Slobs ,you pick the definition that describes you best /I already have !/Ed

[Thumbcocker]

My hunting habitat. Note the tree stand. Maybe some of you experts could give me a lesson on 400 yard shots or stalking in this environment when the property line is 75 yards away.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220625/e14e13a865923c274040404bd32dd9fe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220625/d1ff322bbf2af7b80267fc0b07af72c8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220625/f4d0a779ecae61deef1ad6d61f05e248.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[dk17hmr]

The amount of time I have during hunting season dictates what weapon I'm going to be using. My slow season doesn't usually line up with hunting season. Hands down absolute favorite hunting is spot and stalk open country mule deer with a traditional bow. My favorite way ensure a full freezer is with a rifle that's capable of 1/2 moa at 1000.

I have a family of meat eater and I try to keep an elderly neighbor couple in game meat as well so more often than not I'm taking longer shots here in the desert to maintain freezer levels. I got to hunt 5 days in 2021 4 shots resulted in 2 dead elk and a mule deer buck ranges of 70 yards to 548 yards.

[Soundguy]

My family and I used to hunt deer, elk, moose, etc. We let more walk than we took...we don't like bad shots and wounded animals. I moved on to small game for a few years and went to duck and tree rat. Finally moved on to feral hog. Florida has a huge problem with feral Hogs tears up farmlands messes up place for cows and horses, they are plentiful in a good source of meat you can go out by swampy areas near Farms throw corn out in the morning and wait and then take as many as you want. I don't normally bait unless hunting near farms... Keep the hogs on a safe shooting lane. Farm owners always grateful. I have a farm myself and wild hog are a blight. Tear up land..fences..etc.

[Wolfdog91]

I see everyone keep talking about 1000yd shots but from talking to most long ranger hunter's ( thanks to everyone pming me) most long range guys aren't taking these 1000-1200 yd shot. They just don't and they think is silly people always run to that.

[Larry Gibson]

Wolfdog91

I believe you are right. "Long range" to most "hunters" is anything past 100 yards which seems closer to 1000 yards to most of them. For 'riflemen" "long range" most often means anything over 300 yards.

[atr]

If you want to impress me as a hunter, tell me how close you got.

amen

[versa-06]

Soundguy; I used to hog hunt in Lake county Fl. just south of Leesburg. One of the things I miss about those low-land swamps.

[koger]

I agree withe OP and Larry Gibson above, long range hunting is 300 yds and further out. I have taken several deer between 300-450 yds, all clean one shot kills. All of these were in fields I have hunted most of my life with the exception of a few. I know the yardage from memory and have hunted mainly with a gun I know the dope on like the back of my hand. I use the same load for deer and varmint hunting, and kill wood chucks and coyotes out of the same fields, all year long with relative ease, using a good solid rest, BDC reticles and a range finder, but I usually only use that for shots past 450yds. My longest shot is 510 yds on a buck who was quartered slightly away from me. I hit him behind the last rib on the left side, through the vitals, out the chest and blew the right front leg off. He made it a few yards and dropped. Shot him with a rifle I built in 1985 and have shot thousands of rounds thru. That makes for a deadly set up all the way around, the knowledge gained from years of use, and knowing the round and gun intimately. If you are not profecient with your rifle, you should not try long range shots. I feel that there are a growing number of young hunters, who are utilizing the optics and tech available to them today, to shorten the learning curve, and as such are deadly at at longer ranges. I also feel that there are a lot of hunters who feel like if they can keep their shots in a gallon jug at 100yds they are good to go, and if faced with a long range shot 300 yds and out, will either completely miss the animal, or wound it badly. I have worked with a number of young folks in the last few years, teaching them what it takes to make a accurate rifle, ammo, , and correct optics, and these folks in turn have taken others under their wings as well, and are passing on the knowledge needed to be succesful . Bottom line, each shooter has to know his limitations and stay within them.

[todd9.3x57]

****THIS IS HOW I FEEL. YOURS MAY VARY. I'M NOT STARTING AN AGRUMENT.********


my longest range deer is about 365ish+/- yards. i think it was 15-20yo. one shot, on the shoulder, lungs and top of the heart were destroyed and the shot goes out, i think, between the ribs. the doe was DRT. i, however, felt bad, like sick to my stomach bad. i was no longer hunting deer, i was a shooter.

{i did 300-some yards shots(2 or 3 deer), 200-300 yards(about a dozen or so deer), 100-200 yards(about a dozen, maybe a little more deer) and under 100 yards(i can't count deer, but i know it is in the hundreds of deer).}

the shot made me be a better hunter. 200 yards was my new goal to shoot a deer. then 10 or so years ago, i was introduced to cast boolits. i'll admit, i wasn't too keen on using cast boolits to hunt with. the first doe i ever shot with a cast boolit was a .311" 165gr ranch dog with h4198 going 1926fps in a sporterized 1898 springfield armory in 30-40 krag. she was 93 yards(laser range finder thingy) away and a little broadside. the shot went thru her shoulder, wrecked both lungs and heart and it went out thru 2 ribs. the doe was DRT. i have shot 7 or 8 deer with the krag and my oldest son has killed 5 or 6 deer and all of the deer were DRT. my son has furthest deer killed at 173 yards with the krag. i have shortest distance, about 20 some yards. the only other rifle that goes DRT, is my husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57(2 deer, 50 and 40 some yards). all the other rifles(35/30-30, 444, 45-70, 44 mag & special...) are NOT DRT, the deer go like 20-30 yards after the shot. every deer is shot behind shoulders or a "double lunger.'"

i no longer use jacketed bullets, except the 34gr nitemare hp in 20 vartarg. the furthest i have shot deer with is 130+/- yards. 150 yards is the furthest i go out to. if the deer is 175 yards away, i'll let it go. i like to use cast boolits and their, or better, our limitations.

[elmacgyver0]

What I find unethical is hammering on a guy for posting a couple videos on something he found interesting.
Personally, I don't hunt, so I think you are all a bunch of slobs. (Just sarcasm, I have no problem with hunting).
We need to encourage young people like Wolfdog91 not jump down their throats.
Sometimes I'm a jerk when I post something and regret it later, I even had a guy PM me and called me a "Dick", he was probably right at that instance in time.
We need more Wolfdog 91s, please don't chase them away.

[sharps4590]

I now use one of those store bought pop-up blinds. For 40+ years I loved just slipping quietly and excruciatingly slow through the Ozark woods and catching a deer bedded or feeding along or just travelling. A cool, damp, foggy, drizzly day was great. I wish I still could. A bout with colon cancer and 6 months of chemo produced enough neuropathy in my feet that those days are over. Evidently, according to you, I should quit hunting? I hope you're never so unfortunate as some of us. If you are I guess you'll quit hunting, since you'll then be like us and make yourself sick?

[kerplode]

We need more Wolfdog 91s, please don't chase them away.

I agree with this completely! Our hobby/sport/passion will wither and die if we fail to welcome new people.

And give what he's posted here so far, I have nothing but respect and admiration for Wolfdog91! Clearly he's a good dude, and we are made better by having him amongst our ranks.

[Soundguy]

Soundguy; I used to hog hunt in Lake county Fl. just south of Leesburg. One of the things I miss about those low-land swamps.

Eustis, Umatila or Altoona area? That's where I hunt too. South and or east of Leesburg.

Lots of white sand, hammock and palms, low wet spots. Plenty of hog and bear. My last hunt..on the way out..found bear track on top of my track....

[Soundguy]

What I find unethical is hammering on a guy for posting a couple videos on something he found interesting.
Personally, I don't hunt, so I think you are all a bunch of slobs. (Just sarcasm, I have no problem with hunting).
We need to encourage young people like Wolfdog91 not jump down their throats.
Sometimes I'm a jerk when I post something and regret it later, I even had a guy PM me and called me a "Dick", he was probably right at that instance in time.
We need more Wolfdog 91s, please don't chase them away.

I wasn't hammering..i was asking if he was anti short range hunting. He seemed to be pretty happy about the long range person beating down the short range person. Was an honest question.

[elmacgyver0]

I wasn't hammering..i was asking if he was anti short range hunting. He seemed to be pretty happy about the long range person beating down the short range person. Was an honest question.

No problem whatsoever, I just want to encourage young gun enthusiasts, whether they hunt or just target shoot. Guys like him are the future, guys like me are the past. What I think is irrelevant, what he thinks is where gun ownership, the country as a whole is going.
IMHO

[versa-06]

Soundguy; PM sent

[M-Tecs]

I wasn't hammering..i was asking if he was anti short range hunting. He seemed to be pretty happy about the long range person beating down the short range person. Was an honest question.

When a person posts on an open discussion forum the end result will be discussion. Name calling or belittling someone is hammering. Normal discussion or normal disagreements is not hammering. Normal discussions and even heated disagreements are part of learning and sharing information. Some of the best info comes out of heated disagreements.

[M-Tecs]

No problem whatsoever, I just want to encourage young gun enthusiasts, whether they hunt or just target shoot. Guys like him are the future, guys like me are the past. What I think is irrelevant, what he thinks is where gun ownership, the country as a whole is going.
IMHO

I agree 100%. That is why it's important to direct them to true subject matter expert's verse YouTube blowhards. Lots of good info on YouTube and unfortunately volumes and volumes of not so good information.

Caveat Emptor defiantly applies to YouTube.

[Hannibal]

The OP has a habit of posting about controversial subjects and then feigning surprise when the discussion doesn't go smoothly. I've no idea if it's done intentionally but he does it on multiple forums and has done it multiple times here. It's an easily identified pattern.

I don't have a problem with anyone posting on any subject provided it is allowed by the rules on whatever forum it's posted on but to post on controversial subjects then appear surprised when there is in fact controversy is boorish at best.

[versa-06]

From what I see, The OP wanted to share something that he found constructive. Have you noticed how the ones with a well full of knowledge add to the topic & others want to tear down a learning curve. Back & forth discussion is good. Like the frapping a barrel against a tree or tire, I've never heard of this, but others have & enlightened it with more description. Bravo on the info!

[Budzilla 19]

Just my personal observation on “ long range “ shot taking;

If you, one hundred percent feel that you can make an ethical kill shot, and have the confidence to do it, by all means, DO IT!! At extended ranges, I’m speaking of, there are so many variables that come into play, that very few shooters have the discipline and experience to pull those kind of shots off! Either from a lifetime of extended range shooting,or, military training of some kind in this discipline, it’s, in my opinion only, up to the trigger puller to determine the viability of success or failure!
But, be prepared to do follow up on bad shots, and practice your tracking skills, as these disciplines need to be proficient also!
Because, in the end, we are alll responsible for the cleanest, most ethical shot we can put on our intended game animal targets.
I certainly have the skills, mindset, and ability to take those “ long range” shots, if I am positive I can pull it off. But, one shred of doubt, I’m letting the target walk till next time.
Feel free to flame me if you think I’m in error on any of my statements.
Be safe, good shooting, guys!

[Wolfdog91]

The OP has a habit of posting about controversial subjects and then feigning surprise when the discussion doesn't go smoothly. I've no idea if it's done intentionally but he does it on multiple forums and has done it multiple times here. It's an easily identified pattern.

I don't have a problem with anyone posting on any subject provided it is allowed by the rules on whatever forum it's posted on but to post on controversial subjects then appear surprised when there is in fact controversy is boorish at best.

Feigning surprise ? Really ? Such as? How have I acted suprised ?
Like I've said before I'm not very surprised anymore with the comments my posts get. If I wanted eveyone to just agree with me I wouldn't post on these forums. I like to share and I like to learn.

[Wolfdog91]

I wasn't hammering..i was asking if he was anti short range hunting. He seemed to be pretty happy about the long range person beating down the short range person. Was an honest question.

Anti short range hunting...... Seriously?
And what I enjoyed about the video was how the guy who actually long range hunted could break down and explain stuff in depth. How he could take the guys argument,if we wanna call it that and go step by step what was wrong what was right how this really works his experience yadda yadda yadda yadda

[Edward]

Feigning surprise ? Really ? Such as? How have I acted suprised ?
Like I've said before I'm not very surprised anymore with the comments my posts get. If I wanted eveyone to just agree with me I wouldn't post on these forums. I like to share and I like to learn.

Keep commenting , your appreciated by me when you get some of these arm chair warriors stirred up . I laugh at a few myself HA -HA/Ed

[414gates]

And what I enjoyed about the video was how the guy who actually long range hunted could break down and explain stuff in depth.

I did not watch the video. I'm allergic to bearded rambo stereotypes in camo. Mea culpa.

Nobody can ever explain to me how taking long shots at animals

1. without being reasonably sure of bullet placement
2. without consideration to bullet construction and impact energy
3. with no hope of a wounded follow up

can ever being called hunting.

Just call it like it is without pretending to be shy - it's using live animals for target practice.

If rambo is shooting from so far, what exactly is the point of wearing camo ?

[414gates]

The OP has a habit of posting about controversial subjects and then feigning surprise when the discussion doesn't go smoothly. I've no idea if it's done intentionally but he does it on multiple forums and has done it multiple times here. It's an easily identified pattern.

I've picked up the same pattern.

In the past, on other forums, I've called out several trolls that obviously don't even own a firearm.

Hopefully the OP is not one of those.

[Wolfdog91]

I did not watch the video. I'm allergic to bearded rambo stereotypes in camo. Mea culpa.

Nobody can ever explain to me how taking long shots at animals

1. without being reasonably sure of bullet placement
2. without consideration to bullet construction and impact energy
3. with no hope of a wounded follow up

can ever being called hunting.

Just call it like it is without pretending to be shy - it's using live animals for target practice.

If rambo is shooting from so far, what exactly is the point of wearing camo ?

He discussed every one of those points in detail

[Wolfdog91]

I've picked up the same pattern.

In the past, on other forums, I've called out several trolls that obviously don't even own a firearm.

Hopefully the OP is not one of those.

I'm up to 24 total lol

[414gates]

He discussed every one of those points in detail

Discuss the points in great detail, write entire volumes of encyclopedias, keep explaining till the rambo beard goes grey, it still comes down to using live animals for target practice.

If you fancy using live animals for target practice, just call it hunting and it becomes legal.

Does he perhaps explain why he needs camo while shooting from so far the animals can't even see him ?

[Wolfdog91]

Discuss the points in great detail, write entire volumes of encyclopedias, keep explaining till the rambo beard goes grey, it still comes down to using live animals for target practice.

If you fancy using live animals for target practice, just call it hunting and it becomes legal.

Does he perhaps explain why he needs camo while shooting from so far the animals can't even see him ?

Yes

[versa-06]

414gates; I am sorry to hear about the things that you are allergic to, This is probably why no one can explain to "you" why people take long shots at animals. Because You don't Watch & You don't Listen. You just claimed the fame of not watching what this post is all about, So where is the ground-work for your negative comments? Just asking I'd like to learn how you do this without the experience of what is posted?

[414gates]

414gates; I am sorry to hear about the things that you are allergic to, This is probably why no one can explain to "you" why people take long shots at animals. Because You don't Watch & You don't Listen. You just claimed the fame of not watching what this post is all about, So where is the ground-work for your negative comments? Just asking I'd like to learn how you do this without the experience of what is posted?

No need for apology, thank you.

Here's my ground work :

1. can you place a kill shot
2. will the bullet hold together with sufficient penetration
3. can you find it if you wound it
4. there is no such thing as long range hunting, only hunting.

Posing in camo for Youtube and talking crap is not worth my time. I don't need to watch the video, the OP summed it up already in the first post. Refer point 4.

If you like using live animals for target practice, or you approve of the concept, just say so, there are far more outrageous things that are socially acceptable today.

I've got nothing against camo, I wear camo whenever I'm in the bush, and I don't shave too often, so I often have a beard. I'm still allergic to bearded rambo types in camo posing on Youtube.

[414gates]

Yes

Great. If you learned anything constructive, it's to your benefit.

What is beneficial to you may be of no concern me, and vice versa.

[Soundguy]

Here is one I'm not comfortable with.... How do you guarantee a follow up shot at a 1/4 mile away? How do you then track a possibly wounded animal when the hike may take you hours to get there. I watched a video of a guy shooting a big sheep from one mountain to another mountain. No joke... Took 4 hours to hike down and up... Seems excessive to me..inhumane in case of a wound shot..you can't follow up or get over to humane kill the animal without hours of suffering... At that range..on a treed mountain..5 foot move could be total cover... Hated watching that video.

[versa-06]

I don't shoot anything over 300 yards. I am not set up nor am I qualified. With cast that # comes down depending on bore size & boolit weight. Long range or short sometimes a bad hit just happens. Sometimes even a short shot may require hours of tracking for the hunter & anguish for an animal. Anyone who likes to see an animal suffer has issues that need to be dealt with, but things happen. When you catch a fish, do you put it out of it's misery, or throw it in a cooler & let it die slowly? Or maybe let it die on a stringer? When a Feline or K-9 kills a deer or an elk is it Quick? Just pointing out where some things really stand when we look at the big picture.

[megasupermagnum]

Here is one I'm not comfortable with.... How do you guarantee a follow up shot at a 1/4 mile away? How do you then track a possibly wounded animal when the hike may take you hours to get there. I watched a video of a guy shooting a big sheep from one mountain to another mountain. No joke... Took 4 hours to hike down and up... Seems excessive to me..inhumane in case of a wound shot..you can't follow up or get over to humane kill the animal without hours of suffering... At that range..on a treed mountain..5 foot move could be total cover... Hated watching that video.

It doesn't matter if it's 500 yards or 50 yards. That's mountain hunting. Even in our measly black hills, you could shoot an animal 50 yards away, and it could make one good bound across a valley turning a 100 yard recovery into a mile uphill hike. 1/4 mile isn't that far, 440 yards. If you aren't comfortable with that, you may as well not bother with bighorn sheep unless you are a bow hunter. You can blow $300 a year in preference points in numerous states and you MIGHT draw a tag sometime in your life. If you can't practice long range shots with that kind of commitment, you probably aren't willing to become physically fit enough to handle it either. Of course with money, anything is possible.

[Soundguy]

I much prefer large game at close range with a double gun...and glad is optional..i like express sights.. And short yardage is my preference.

[sharps4590]

I like my hunting up close and personal. Measured in feet is good. HOWEVER!!!! I have shot enough long range competition and just for the fun of doing it and learning how that IF I wanted to take an animal at 400-800 yards, still owned my long range rifle and was in practice, I would have neither problem nor difficulty doing so. But TO ME, that isn't hunting. For me it would be calculated killing. Having said that I have no problem with those who do it, if they're capable. It just ain't for me.

My longest shot on a critter is a lasered 480 yards. Not all that far except that it was a crow, shot in the head with a 300 Win. Mag. That deserves a brief explanation. The day before we, the boy who worked on the farm for us and I, had sighted in my rifle for dead on at 500 lasered yards. That Sunday after church we went out to have some fun and the aforementioned crow landed on my range just in front of the target frame. Jason put the range finder on it and I fired. Crow collapsed. The head shot was luck, the crow was facing us but hitting it? No way that was luck. With that rifle sub 3 inch groups were as common as dirt at 500 yards....and that was over 30 years ago.

[Hannibal]

Have you ever noticed among all the successful shot stories in a long range hunting thread you never one time see a post about a poor shot that resulted in a wounded but unrecovered animal?

I guess those people don't ever post in any thread.

[versa-06]

I beg to differ, I have read several posts where hunters admit a bad shot, short & long, & tracked for hours to locate animal & or lost it completely. If you are an avid hunter you will experience a less than perfect scenario.

[Larry Gibson]

The one deer I shot and never found was shot under 50 yards

[Texas by God]

The one deer I shot and never found was shot under 50 yardsThe same here. Looked for it for two days. Found it's skull and spine the following spring after a flood.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Soundguy]

Knock on wood I've been lucky everything I've shot has dropped within a couple feet of where I shot it a couple times it's still kicked a little bit sometimes it was dead right there but always basically right where shot. Then again I tend to bring more gun than is needed for my intended game animals too. In the old days I would hunt hog with 30-30 and then move to 35 Remington but now that I've gotten older I've moved up the 30 ought 6 is my minimum Hog Gun, have carried a 45-70 hog hunting as well, the areas I hunt in there just aren't any long shots anyway. I tend to bring big guns because you just never know when you're going to see a monster animal walk around a Thicket and I'd hate to be shooting a 6 or 700 lb hog with a 30-30, and here in Florida we have even larger Hogs as well as bear. I wouldn't feel bad at all taking a 458 Magnum or larger

[Geezer in NH]

I am 70 years old and have hunted all my life. Long time ago I hunted chucks all over NE in 3 states, shot at them from Far, far away. Mis no biggie as any hit would kill. It was fun. Deer however I never hunted a field or highline Shot them by stalking most shots under 50 yards.

I did hunt antelope in WY. Shot my biggest buck at 350+ yards dropped at the shot. No way to get closer and had been shooting chucks for years with the 25/06 I had built. Confident if the shot was not good that I could place 2-3 more.

With that I then progressed to Black Powder and Flintlocks. I have hunted the last 30+ years with them. It is a hunting challenge to me, but that's me. I have friends that hunt the longer ranges with much success as they shoot competition high power and NOT the normal once a year shooter to see if the rifle still works deer hunter.

Folks get uppity about shooting and hunting don't like the method then don't do it. Stop condemning others.

[sharps4590]

The one deer I shot and never found was shot under 50 yards

Seems to be at least a little common. So was mine and I stumbled onto it the next May while squirrel hunting. I wounded a buck but he survived, evidently in good health as I saw him a few times after the season.

[todd9.3x57]

sorry!! put it in the wrong spot.