Flare for rifle cartridges?

[Shadow9mm]

So... I have only loaded handgun cartridges with cast bullets up to now. I was planning to have my first go at loading 30-06 with cast bullets tomorrow and something struck me. I have always flared my case mouths when loading cast bullets to keep from shaving lead or powder coat off.

Will I need to flare to 30-06 cases so I don't shave lead or powder coat as well? Or will the chamfer from deburring the case be enough?

[GrayTech]

Most likely flaring will be required.

[405grain]

I usually flare the case mouth just enough that half of the gas check will enter the case. I also do seating the boolit and crimping as two separate operations. Using this method I have yet to shave any lead during reloading.

[Winger Ed.]

See what works for you.

For jacketed, I've never had to flare a case mouth.

For cast, I have to flare the case mouth for .45-70.
However; for .30cal. sized to .309, just a nice inside bevel on the case mouth will work with gas checks for me.

[Hick]

It depends on what cast bullet diameter works in your rifle to prevent leading. If you have sized them to 0.308 the bevel is probably enough. But if you size 0.309 or larger a flare will usually work best.

[15meter]

Look up Lyman M-die. It's designed to do exactly what you need. RCBS I believe has a similar die.

Lee makes a generic expander that sort of works. It just flares the very mouth of the case.

Most cost effective is the Lee expander body with a specific expander/bell from NOE. You can order several different sized expanders from NOE plus the lee expander die for the cost of 1 Lyman die.

Don't forget to lube the ID of the case, you are doing a forming operation and a little lube helps. I use Imperial that I wipe just a bit on with a Q-tip. The lube does have the potential to catch a little powder when filling if you don't wipe it out after belling.

Or toss them in the polisher for 20 minutes to clean of the lube. That's what I do because I'm too lazy to wipe out each individual case. Gotta wipe it in by hand, don't gotta wipe it out by hand. That's what machines are for.

And go online, the Lyman Cast #3 is available as a free download. There should be a good description of cast boolit loading techniques.

[armoredman]

I've been flaring .223 for years, JUST enough to make sure the bullet seats without shaving. .308 I do as well, but very lightly. Both are with the cheapo Lee expander die.

[GregLaROCHE]

The NOE system is great. I’ll never go back to a simple flare.

[Randy Bohannon]

I don’t like ‘ flaring’ a case mouth and expanding is what you want just enough that the bullets starts into the case with no ‘flare’ just expanded to accept the desired diameter. None of the Lee dies expand they ‘flare’ which requires a roll crimp to remove so the cartridge will chamber. The BACO expanders either for rifle or handgun are $20.00 you order them for your particular dies it replaces the jacketed bullet ‘flaring’ expander which is useless for cast bullets, anything that ‘flares’ is not optimal , expanding works much better. Flaring causes neck splits eventually where expanding does not,they are not equal.

[414gates]

Flare is required. Just enough that a bullet base can ba placed on and balance in the neck.

[pworley1]

I normally have to. I use just enough to get the bullet started with shaving any lead.

[dale2242]

I flare ALL cases with cast bullet loads.
I use the Lee Universal when my dies don`t flare the case and have never had issues.
It takes a little time to change settings but I don`t have to buy multiple dies.

[Pb Burner]

The only rifle(bottle neck) I load cast in so far is 30-06. I got a Lyman M die because of reading/researching here on this site. My first 06 loads were loaded with necks expanded with the M die, and I've never had an issue seating boolits. It doesn't just stop shaving, I believe it helps the boolit seat straighter and easier, a plus with cast.
I would recommend using the M die.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I much prefer the 'M' die from Lyman or NOE to the 'flare' dies that RCBS and Lee provide. The NOE dies are available in more diameters to allow better seating. Bullet alignment is better with the 'M' dies as the flare is really a short parallel diameter. Lyman 30 cal 'M' dies are .3065 with a .311 'flare' (30R) and for the .31 are .3095 with a .314 'flare' (31R). The short parallel helps a great deal in seating bullets straighter and quite often a crimp is NOT needed, depending on your rifle. A flare can get caught on a sharp chamber edge and may not chamber. I do use 'M' expanders for all the rifle calibers I load for, handgun calibers if I can get them.

[Soundguy]

For cast , including gas checked cast I usually flare a hair to get it started with no shaving.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with Dale2242, does not need a lot, just a little radius instead of a sharp square edge. Make it easy for the cast to slip into place.

Then when you crimp, however you crimp, it removes the flare.

I mostly use the Lee tool but some dies have a powder through die that flares and sizes nicely.

[Three44s]

+10 for all the answers given thus far!

They cover a broad range of what works and give the OP a good starting point to find the suitable combination to adopt into anyone’s repitiore.

Three44s

[waco]

I use the RCBS case neck expanding dies. Not only will it give a slight "flair" to the case mouth but more importantly it expands the neck of the case so you are not sizing your bullets as you seat them. I size my .30-06 bullets to .311"
I use a .310" spud in my die. This gives me .001" neck tension. Works well for me.

[BJung]

I second that with Waco.

[Soundguy]

I use a cheap lee neck expander flipped to the shallow angle side. Lil' dab 'l do ya.

[gwpercle]

You will need to flare case mouth for any / all cartridges loaded ...rifle or handgun ... with lead boolits .
A Lyman M-Die is nice but the NOE system of m-die type inserts used in a Lee Universal Neck expander works much better . NOE also sells the Lee Universal Neck Expander if you don't already have one .
Just get a set and save yourself a lot of shaved boolits . The NOE inserts come in many different sizes and are a great value .
Gary

[mdi]

I flare everything. Shoving a slug/bar into a brass tube that is .002"-.004" smaller in ID can be difficult without some sort of "entry way". A flare doesn't need to be a 040" bell, just enough to allow a bullet to stand up and enter the seating die without guiding it in. Remaining flares are removed with a taper crimp die (semi-auto handgun), a roll crimp die (revolvers and rifles) or a collet crimp die.Crimping dies can easily be adjusted to just remove flare as a last step. Been doing this for many years/thousands of rounds without any downsides...

[robg]

flare with the lee universal die .works for me with 223/308/45-70.

[mattw]

I load most of my rifles with cast from .22 to .30. I will never flare another case, it is a draconian guess at best. Look into the Lyman M step dies and the NOE expander plugs. They expand the length of the plug with a step toward the end that you can tune or get tuned to you bullet diameter. No need to crimp or "clean up" the case mouth with tight chambers if the right plug is used.

[popper]

Post #3 is the correct way. And remember to expand the neck for proper neck tension.

[Soundguy]

I load most of my rifles with cast from .22 to .30. I will never flare another case, it is a draconian guess at best. Look into the Lyman M step dies and the NOE expander plugs. They expand the length of the plug with a step toward the end that you can tune or get tuned to you bullet diameter. No need to crimp or "clean up" the case mouth with tight chambers if the right plug is used.

Seems less useful if you are also loading for jacketed bullets on the same. I'd have to replace your stem every time you do something

[Rich/WIS]

I don't crimp my rifle ammo, either cast or jacketed. Have never had an issue with seating rifle boolits in cases that were expanded with the Lyman M die, and have not noticed any of the slight flaring of the case mouth the M die creates after seating. Always figured the seating die tolerance was such that it ironed it out as the boolit was seated.

[Mk42gunner]

I size boolits to 0.311" for most of my .30 caliber rifles. I use the M-die that came in the set for .32 ACP/S&W/S&WL/H&R to expand the neck and allow the gas check a start.

To remove the very slight ring, I adjust the seating die to just straighten the case mouth. The only one that I normally crimp is the .30-30 for use in tube magazines.

Works for me.

Robert

[stubshaft]

Many years ago, I tried loading cast in rifles with only a simple flare and accuracy sucked! I switched to a Lyman "M" die and later the NOE expanders to alleviate some of the neck tension and accuracy was great.

A simple flare will enable you to load a cast bullet without lead shaving BUT the neck of the case will usually size your bullet down a couple of thousandths. If you do not believe me, size a bullet and measure it, load it into a case with ONLY a slight flare, use a kinetic bullet puller and pull the bullet. Now compare the original diameter to the pulled bullet. I usually buy a neck expander to set the bullet tension at .002".

[charlie b]

That may be true with some, but, even plain base bullets are not 'sized down' by the necks in my .308 and .30-06 (most of the time I use gas checks). Yes, I have pulled and measured. I use Lyman #2 alloy exclusively.

I use the Lee universal expander for my rifle, Lee powder thru expanders for pistols. .357 gets roll crimp, 9mm and .45acp get taper crimp. The .308 and .30-06 have the flare removed by the collet crimp die set to not crimp. Works well enough for almost MOA accuracy.