Mosin-Nagant Fans?

[Bigslug]

I've got an opportunity to snag a 1933 Tula hex-receiver 91/30 that was captured & property-marked by the Finns, but not reworked into one of their sexier M27,M28, or M39 upgrades.

Good bore, bolt head locks up tight (a ton of slop with the rest of it), the numbered bits match with a few Ishvesk logos on stuff like the cocking piece and barrel bands. Somebody dropped the bolt in a bluing tank at some point for reasons unknown. Handguards lock the barrel down tightly. Trigger is a crisp 10-12 pounds that breaks like a piece of al dente pasta, with the sear dragging the cocking piece downward about 1/8" before it lets the striker go.

"Need" as you know, has little to do with such things. Part of me has a fascination with the history of the piece - both political and arms-development. Another part of me says the Mosin is mainly something to hold up as an example of how NOT to build a bolt action. I've got copies of the Lyman "299" mold in three diameters, so feeding it should be no problem once brass & dies were acquired.

So tell me your Mosin stories good and bad. I'm waffling a little in light of the better bolt guns I already have. Knowing what to expect might help.
:drinks:

[Kraschenbirn]

Wouldn't say that I'm a Moisin "fan" but I've got a Finn capture similar to the one you're looking at. Mine's an all-matching 1937 Ishevsk with a fairly decent .312 bore and an 8-pound trigger. With the issue sights, off the bench, it'll print 3"+ groups @ 100 yards with PPU Ball and, maybe, a little better with cast (if I'm having a good day:smile:). It's kinda fun to plink with once in a while but, mostly, it just fills a niche in my modest collection pre-WWII milsurps.

Bill

[nagantguy]

If the price is reasonable remember that there will be no more ever.

As fresh out of the marine corps 20 something they were $49-79 each- Finn’s being a little more I bought dozens of them and pallets of ammo.
Shot a lot and learned a lot and Mosin’s sent me down the path of casting for rifles - what do ya do when you’ve a bore that mics .314?
Great piece of history , and still a very serviceable rifle. Very easy to load
For
2 traps that are easy to fall into- winding up having to buy a new safe or two to keep the ever growing collection of them in - chance of that is slimmer with current prices
And when folks spend a ton to make a clone sniper rifle or try to turn an old war horse into a modern sniper rifle so they have a $1000 or more collection of parts and pieces that still shoot 3-4 inch groups at a hundred.
Avoid those pit calls - buy the Finn and enjoy!

[Noah Zark]

My M-N journey began in the late 1980s with Finn M28, then a Finn 91-30, followed by a Finn M28-30. The two previous guns were 2" -2.5" using milsurp ammo, but the 28-30 shot 1.5" groups on a bad day.

Over the years I amassed a collection of just about every Finnish variant, and a good number of Soviet models but over the past two years I've pared way down based on accuracy and what I would take to the range and what stayed home. I still have two Soviet 91-30s, "five line" models, and one "Finned" M91 Sestroyesk with boxed SA stamp. The Sesty crest is too cool.

The majority of my remaining M-N collection is comprised of seven Finn 91-30s, real tackdrivers. I kept a VKT and a SAKO M39, both with pistol grip stocks, and an early M39 with a straight grip stock. The only ones that get fired are three 28-30s and the straight grip M39, and I only shoot milsurp ammo, stuff that's appropriate to all of my Finns which have "D" stamps on the barrel.

Fifteen years ago I was shooting a 28-30 at a local club range, ringing gongs at 10", 200, and 300 yds. A couple of members rolled up and I waited for them to unpack and set targets. They asked what I was shooting, and I said "A Finnish Mosin-Nagant 28-30". One snorted and said something about "Commie junk". They had scoped silhouette rifles. We called the range hot and I rang the 100, 200, and 300yd gongs each five times, offhand, missing a 200 yd gong once when I pulled a shot.

The other guys were standing there, a bit slack jawed. The one said, "That's some shooting open sights like that. What ammo you using?"

"Commie junk," I replied, and broke out the cleaning kit.

Noah

[Jack Stanley]

Fell in love with a very nice 91/59 and couldn't resist , same guy had a 91/30 with bayonet that had the same serial number as the rifle . Older eyes can see the sights real easy and they stayed even after the british Enfields got sent down the road .

Jack

[36g]

My first M91/30 was from Sears back in the 1960's (ya, I'm older than dirt). It came in arsenal wrap - gauze wrap around the rifle then dipped in a cocoon shell of beeswax. It was a Finn capture and unfired. Sloppy trigger and kicked like a mule with WWII surplus ammo. Sold it some years later but have since bought more Soviet 91/30's, Finn M39's, and even imported a bunch of Hungarian M44s. Made a few sniper versions when the original PU scopes and mounts hit the market years ago. An interesting design and obviously historical. Have fun with it!

[beemer]

I have a 43 91/30 and a M39 Valmet. The 39 does very well with cast, never shot a J-word in it.

The 91/30 I have shot a good bit. It is in nice condition with a good blueing and a good bore. It looks like it was polished with a side grinder but everything that needs to be right is right. It has never been a tack driver, I shoot at a black 6 inch bull and most groups you can cover with the palm of your hand. It is about the same with lead or jacketed. The bore is .312, I had about 250 very old 180 grain spire point bullets that were .308. They shot as good as the .312 dia.

The mosin was a rifle made for conscripts that would probably not outlast the rifle. It is rough, rugged and reliable and can be used for a baseball bat and still do minute of a German. The safety is a joke but it does work, probably even while using it for a bat

I like the history.

Dave

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Oh, well....o.k...here goes. Got my first MN in about 1956 for one dollar from Golden State Arms. The deal was that if you bought a No.1 Mk.III* Lee Enfield for something like $24 in VG condition (barely!) you could get "one miscellaneous European military surplus rifle" thrown in for an additional dollar. My dad was financing the purchase, and I think he couldn't resist finding out what part of Europe was "miscellaneous." When it arrived it was a full length MN 1891 made in 1927 complete with hammer and sickle on the receiver. For yet another dollar it came with 10 rounds of corrosive Russian ammo. I was a Po' Boy, and after the 10 rounds were expended without seeming to hit anything I set it aside for about 15 years until I was educated, employed, and could pursue my hobby. I purchased a Lee Loader in 7.62x54mm and pounded away loading some new Norma empties with .308 bullets. Well, after all, 7.62mm is .308, right? Wrong, as my fine custom ammo wasn't on the target at 50 yds. Then, in my readings, I learned that the MN's bore is usually .311 or larger. I loaded the empties for a second time and was on the paper, although not outstandingly so. The bore resembled the interior of an ancient cast iron sewer pipe when received, and repeated cleaning sessions didn't seem to make much improvement. But, and not the last time this happened, I found that subsequent firings seemed to remove some of the crud, and eventually it came to have a decent bore. I still have this monstrosity.
301416

Then, after a few more years, I found myself in the gunsmithing/FFL business. I was so situated in life when the big MN invasion hit our shores. My first acquisition was an Aztec Arms Import, a 91/30 in almost new condition. There followed a couple more 91/30s and two, perhaps three of them are the Finn capture rifles as you have described. Next came two of the 1944 carbines complete with pig stickers. A third came along when a frequent customer walked into the shop door one day and thrust one at me (without the bayonet) saying, "Here--you can have this!" I hung it on the wall, and sometime later another customer saw it, inquired about it, and said, "I gave that to him!" Eventually I got tired of looking at it and restored it.

Finally, I was in the shop of a friend who sold guns on consignment, and there was a Finn M-28 in new condition. I grabbed it, having heard so many stories about their high quality and wonderful accuracy.

The long and short of it is that I have a pile of them. I keep them because I'm a collector, never shoot them, but agree with your observation that they are a good example of "how not to build a military rifle." They are poorly balanced, clunky, in their original version, of very ungainly length (and slap on that long bayonet it becomes even worse), stiff bolt action, never up to the fit and finish of Mauser. They are "hell for stout" and just about "soldier proof". The cartridge is a good one, but considering the existence of the 7.65mm Mauser (rimless) in the 1891 Mauser (Belgium, Argentina, etc.) it was obsolete when adopted. Still, the Czar, Communists, and all of their various allies and satellites muddled through with it even into the Viet Nam War. One belongs in every military rifle collection, but they are not and never will be near and dear to my heart. MNs are strictly a love 'em or hate 'em proposition. They do have their fanatical adherents, so much so that several years ago I was almost kicked off a military rifles forum for sharing my opinion of them. Give me a Mauser, Lee Enfield, Springfield '03, 1917 Enfield, just about anything else. They are functional, but in my esteem rank with H&R and IJ break top revolvers.

There....you wanted to know! :-(

DG

[725]

If the price is right - get it. Crude design was genius.

[Geezer in NH]

A Finn marked Hex action Sweet!!! Is barrel marked SA? Even Better. Was it drilled for the scope mount?

My Fin is an Izzy but has SA barrel. Scope holes filled but now has the mount and Russian scope on it. Shoots the Czechoslovakian silver tip into 1 1/2 as best I can do. The cheaper Russian WWII into 2-3 inches not bad for a surplus rifle from 90 years ago for ammo and gun.

That Ruskey ammo in a spam can with the inside paint still wet when opened it dried in 24 hours canned really fresh it seems. [Steel cased]

[Bigslug]

A Finn marked Hex action Sweet!!! Is barrel marked SA? Even Better. Was it drilled for the scope mount?

Barrel just has the "SA" in the square on the left side of the barrel which just denotes that the Finnish army owned it at some point. Top of the barrel has a letter "D" stamped on it, which apparently is a Finn stamp stating it's rated to take a certain spec of ammo they had captured a lot of. No scope mount. It has a Finnish sling swivel passed through and bolted together through the front Russian dog collar slot.

All in all, it looks like the Finns owned it, but never got around to doing anything with it as it appears to be straight Russian spec but for the stamps. Not found any explanation for the bolt getting blued.

Still waffling.

[45workhorse]

A MN carbine with bayonet and a unopen crate(s) of ammo, just in case things go bad. Just my .02 cents worth.
If the price is right pick it up, I don' think you will regret it.

[Gtek]

Have not shot any of my collection in a while, but I do remember that cocking piece climbing on that looooooong squeeze. Those rifles did exactly what they were designed to do, must credit them with that.

[fatelk]

I don't know if this is entirely accurate, but I remember reading somewhere that the Mosin design, clunky as it is, is particularly well suited to freezing cold (Russian winters), and that they tended to be more reliable on the brutal WWII eastern front that the finer Mauser rifle. I've never shot either rifle in the freezing cold under combat conditions, so I don't know if that's true or not.

[beemer]

I don't know if this is entirely accurate, but I remember reading somewhere that the Mosin design, clunky as it is, is particularly well suited to freezing cold (Russian winters), and that they tended to be more reliable on the brutal WWII eastern front that the finer Mauser rifle. I've never shot either rifle in the freezing cold under combat conditions, so I don't know if that's true or not.

I have the book Sniper on the Eastern Front, an account of Sepp Allerberger. He was a German sniper that basically learned on his own with a captured Russian rifle. Later he used 98, he stated that the 98 could freeze up due to tighter tolerances and the Mosin-Nagant was not affected. The Russians tend to make rifles that will operate in bad conditions, it is necessary if you live where bad weather in normal.

[725]

Simo Hayha was a fan. Do a search and read about one of the worlds greatest snipers.

[WinchesterM1]

I’ve got around 185 mosins…..does that make me a fan?

[slim1836]

I’ve got around 185 mosins…..does that make me a fan?

Nope, you're an addict.

Slim

[Larry Gibson]

I only have 5 MNs currently. Two of them from the past SE Asian war games which previous owners no longer needed. The other two are M930 sniper (original) and a Sako built M39 on a hex receiver which is very accurate with cast bullets.

301511

[Bigslug]

Missed the boat on that one. Gotta decide if I'm still looking.

[30calflash]

In what I've read on them the Finns would test drive captured equipment, refurb what's needed or if in good shape & meeting their specs, would get put into service. That's why there's some Soviet rifles with Finnish markings and no change to the rifle other than rear sight markings and obliteration of the hammer and sickle. Not common as many needed work but a few did make the cut for their purposes.

I've a '95 Tula, original barrel, with the forend spliced and otherwise as issued besides markings.

[Dutchman]

Between my son-in-law and myself we have a few.

https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/4/28344/9895637/7141_nvi-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/firearms/7141-n-vi.html)

[NuJudge]

I have one Finn M39 that shoots quite well. It came to me fresh from rebuild. I have shot a lot of jacketed, and a little cast through it.

I have one made by Remington in 1918 that has been in the family a long time, and a 91/59. I also have one of the Polish .22LR trainers, which is enjoyable to shoot.

There are still a lot of them in Russia & Ukraine, as both are using them in their current war. You may see them imported here again.

[LAGS]

The first M N that I shot was one my dad brought back from Korea in 1951.
He sold it back in the '70s because he couldn't find hunting ammo for it.
But I have had over 30 over the years.
I am down to 4 now that I am downsizing my collection now that I have retired.
My two favorites that I still have are two 28/30s and a 1891 Finish rebuild.
I sporterized one of the 28/30s and put a scope on it.
It is one of my most accurate rifles.

[armoredman]

I had three, an M38 that I loved, a 91/30 that was OK, and a 1920 Tula hex 91/30 that was a tack driver. All sold for medical bills. If I had my druthers, I'd have that M38 back. When I had nothing, that little carbine was my defense rifle, and I trusted it.

[SoonerEd]

If your interested in finnish capture rifles check out Doug Bowser's Rifles of the White Death. He lives an hour and a half South of me and is very knowledgeable about them and finnish history with the russians. If you read his books gives you some history of why they joined the axis powers and now want in NATO.

[36g]

One of the next projects is a 91/30 sniper with a PE scope. Need it for an upcoming movie project. I have all of the pieces needed, just need to get going on it. May also do a short side rail 98k sniper - just trying to decide if needing to build on a wartime 98 action or if to make up as a transitional sniper using a WWI action and cut down long barrel. NO, I'm not thinking of taking an existing GEW barreled action and mucking it up, but rather a GEW action and either a 8mm or 7.65mm barrel and building up from there.

[Bigslug]

Well. . .missing the opportunity on the Camaro led me to ending up with the Corvette - a basically new Finnish M39 will be coming home shortly.

I've got a couple more in the 91 and 91/30 pattern potentially on the line awaiting offers to be entertained or rejected, but having had my jaw dropped by the range performance of one M39 and by the internal wood fitting of another in the past, I decided it was time to pull my head out of my butt and bring one home.:lol:

[Bigslug]

If your interested in finnish capture rifles check out Doug Bowser's Rifles of the White Death. He lives an hour and a half South of me and is very knowledgeable about them and finnish history with the russians. If you read his books gives you some history of why they joined the axis powers and now want in NATO.

I've had Terrence Lapin's collector's guide for well over a decade and have been studying the Finnish sections in prep for this purchase.

If you proceed like many of us gun cranks do and look at the history of the guns and how it relates to their people, then the story of the Mosin in the conflict between Finland and Russia is a pretty fascinating one. The 28/30 and M39 were the full culmination of what you can build with a Mosin action if you take the time to CARE, but equally cool is the fact that the Finns had a less intense program to test out captured Russian rifles to separate which ones were manufactured under the influence of vodka and indifference from those made when the Commissar was actually watching the line. That they either left them mostly alone or modified them incrementally according to their defects speaks volumes about a nation of shooters acting free of bureaucratic red tape.

[samari46]

My cast bullet moisin is a Finn model 27 that I swapped for over 30 years ago. Lyman 314299 sized to .3135" and 20 grains IMR 4769. Will so 2-2.5" groups when my eyes cooperate. Beautiful bore on this one. Frank

[WinchesterM1]

A lot of those rifles in Lapins book are mine, they borrowed for the pics, don’t ask me which ones now I forget lol

I love mosins, being young(36) I got into them when they were cheap($79) when I worked at a gun store, I would order 5 a week and go through them and then buy them for $89OTD so I was buying one or 2 a week. When SOG got something different in or special they would call me and it would be on the next order out, plus when we would visit the In-law I would stop by every pawn shop on the way to Dayton OH and then all of the ones there. I really enjoy Mosins for what they are, they are amazing rifles. 302475