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View Full Version : Outer's Foul Out Opinions Wanted



waksupi
01-13-2006, 09:09 PM
After spending several hours today, cleaning a badly coppered bore, it came to me that time could be better spent, if the Foul Outs work as advertised.

I have never personally used one, and would like to have imput, pro and con, from users. Also, length of time it takes to clean a badly jacket fouled bore, whatever you can think of. What is the solution that is put in the barrel? Common stuff you can buy, or is it a proprietory chemical? Would Washing Soda, like we use in reverse electrolosis, work?

rockrat
01-13-2006, 09:44 PM
I have used a Foul Out. Works well on a fouled bore with the solution they send. I have also used diluted ammonia for short period. I use brass welding rods with O-rings on them to keep them away from the bore, along with the rubber stopper. On a real fouled bore, I have had to pull the brass rod and sandpaper it to take the copper off the surface, then it works pretty well again(note- these are other peoples guns-they wonder why they won't shoot very well!!)

Jumptrap
01-14-2006, 12:38 AM
After spending several hours today, cleaning a badly coppered bore, it came to me that time could be better spent, if the Foul Outs work as advertised.

I have never personally used one, and would like to have imput, pro and con, from users. Also, length of time it takes to clean a badly jacket fouled bore, whatever you can think of. What is the solution that is put in the barrel? Common stuff you can buy, or is it a proprietory chemical? Would Washing Soda, like we use in reverse electrolosis, work?

Ric,

I think if you ever drop the bucks for one, you'll shake your head and wonder how the hell you ever did without it. Mine doiesn't see a lot of service because I cleaned everything up and rarely ever use jacketed bullets any more. BUT, I don't care if I use it once a year........it was money well spent. Everybody has an opinion just like a rectum....how they wipe thiers is their business. You'll yank out every gun you have...especially the clean ones.....and find out how fouled they are. i have yet to butcher any bores...to hell with the nay sayers. Plug the barrel, dump in the solution and let it work several hours or over night. The next day you have a copper plated rod! i keep doing it until no more copper is leached out. Is it all that important to have a bore squeaky clean? Not in my experience. But if you have a bad fouler...like some some super hotty....the Foul Out prevents bore wear from scrubbing and lots of elbow grease. Buy one.

crazy mark
01-14-2006, 12:44 AM
Ric,
I'm writing an article on the use of them for da book. Some of the best money I have spent in my mind. It cleans copper and lead really good. The only down side is the chemicals are nasty and one should wear proper protection. If you follow directions you can't go wrong. There are instructions on the net for how to make your own but too much amps and you can have ill effects on your barrel. Mark

walltube
01-14-2006, 01:20 AM
Ric,

I agree with JT in his summation. The thing flat out works.

If you have access to a well stocked welding supply dealer, stainless steel 312-316 filler rods will allow you greater flexibility by cutting them to length to suit your pistols or any other firearm with a bbl. length not exceeding the filler rod's. For example: lead accumulation in the cylinder may be addressed by cutting a 1\16" or 1\8" dia. rod that suits the cyl. length. Or, if leading is present in the forcing cone simply plug the muzzle after inserting the rod, fill with Lead-Out solution, attach 'gator clips, energise the power thingy, have a beer (or whatever). In minutes you'll see the lead accumulate on the electrode. Copper is not so dramatic, have two six packs :) . The preceeding of course applies to the Foul-Out II only. Oh yeah, one more note here, I bend a half inch or so 90 degree angle to the electrode that the 'gator clip may be turned away from the top strap to prevent an unwanted short.

I have not any experience with the Foul-Out III unit as of this message. But one is on my "must have" list.

Hope I've been of help.

Yours Truly............Harold

JSH
01-14-2006, 08:31 AM
I have to throw my .02 in here. The Foul Out I used to have worked but was not as good as I had figured it would be. I had copper issues but none with lead. I picked up a can of Wipe Out around a year after I bought The FO. Long story short I just use the WO now. Two go arounds with the WO and it is clean, for really bad barrels. Any more about once a year on my FLGC guns is about all they need.
I know FLGC, but before I came over to CB's, I had accumilated about 10K of various FLGC's. Who knows maybe I can trade a few more for some molds.........
Jeff

nelson133
01-14-2006, 08:32 AM
If you want to try it out, or you are cheap, make your own. The liquid is 1 part ammonia to 1 part vinegar to 2 parts water. Buy a mild steel rod and a rubber stopper that will seal the breech. Put either electrical tape or small orings along the rod to keep it from touching the barrel. Insert rod into stopper, stopper into breech, fill barrel with solution, and apply dc current through the solution by hooking up one pole of your electrical source to the barrel and another to the rod. Give it 20 minutes and see what you get. The polarity of the current is important, as you want it to flow from the barrel to the rod to plate the rod. The electrical source can be as small as a 2 d cell flashlight, I use a small trickle charge battery charger. If you don't have a rubber stopper, multiple winds of teflon tape will work. Much more and detailed information is availabe on surplusrifles.com.

rocklock
01-14-2006, 06:19 PM
One thing to remember...the fouling may be in layers, especially in old milsurp rifles.

To give an example, I have a J-bore Gew 88. The bore was nothing to write home about so I decided to use the Foul-Out on it. After about 3 hours I ran a patch down the bore and pushed out quite a bit of black carbon fouling. After cleaning until the patches came out white I ran the F-O for 3 hours and another patch pushed out more black goo. About 2 days worth of this cycle revealed an excellent bore under all the crud.

twotoescharlie
01-14-2006, 10:18 PM
make your own for less than ten bucks!

www.surplusrifle.com

TTC

wills
01-14-2006, 11:07 PM
make your own for less than ten bucks!

www.surplusrifle.com

TTC

More specifically;

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/pdf/makingthesurplus2.pdf

nvbirdman
01-15-2006, 12:21 AM
I love my Foul-Out.
It gets my guns squeeky clean with no labor on my part.
Do you fire 38's in your 357? Do you have trouble extracting the 357's?
If you think that cylinder is clean, try cleaning it with a Foul-Out.

Steelshooter
01-15-2006, 01:43 AM
Does this formula remove lead also or just the copper? I have a foul out 2 and it came with two mixtures, one for copper and one for lead. I am about out of both and don't want to buy some more, the stuff is expensive

walltube
01-15-2006, 01:11 PM
I love my Foul-Out.
It gets my guns squeeky clean with no labor on my part.
Do you fire 38's in your 357? Do you have trouble extracting the 357's?
If you think that cylinder is clean, try cleaning it with a Foul-Out.


Yep! The FO II makes it quick & easy removing the lead fouling in the cylinder after using shorter cases in your .357\.44 magnum.

My Dearly Beloved's SP101 cylinder is slightly out of register from wear & tear. This condition makes what would be a real chore to clean if it were not for the FOII. 100 rnds. of 358477 will have the underside of the top strap, forcing cone, and bbl. face\frame all crapped up with lead fouling.

My cleaning method is (was) to tilt the SP muzzle down, trigger guard up at approx. 45* with the cylinder secured open. Duct or electrician's tape is then wrapped around the frame at the bbl. This forms a sort "tank" to fill the affected area to be cleaned with cleaning solution. A short legnth of SS filler rod eletrode with its' 1" 90* bend will present itself for the 'gator clip. Fill plugged bbl. with your favorite cleaning concoction, energise the unit and watch the lead collect on the electrode. Such fun :).

I hope to hell I haven't made a really simple & effective cleaning method seem complicated with my clumsy narration.

Dat mean a whole lotta verbbin' and adjectavin' be goin' on bra'. Buckshot, he know whut it is. Yo! :D

Yours Truly............Walltube

anachronism
01-15-2006, 06:35 PM
My FOII is a wonderful device. I rarely use it anymore, not because I've found something better (I haven't), but because I don't shoot many jacketed bullets anymore. To clean your forcing cone, drill a small hole, smaller than the diameter of the rod you intend to use, through a properly sized rubber bore plug. stick your rod through the plug, add an appropriate o-ring, and position it in the bore, with about an inch or so sticking out, into the revolvers cylinder window, the cylinder is either open, or removed, of course. Fill the bore with the magic elixer from the forcing cone, and start the foul-Out. Soon, it will be all shiney clean. My Foul-Out handgun record was set by my .41 magnum Redhawk, it took three days, and six solution changes, and rod cleanings to finally conquer the jacketed fouling in that one. The .338 Remington 700 took six days, and about 14 cleanings & changes to finally get clean. This was with the old, original Foul-Out solvent that has been "improved" twice since then. Every used gunI buy gets to meet MISTER Foul-Out.

lovedogs
02-09-2006, 09:42 AM
You won't need one every day, but when you need one nothing works better. Can be a little slow on copper sometimes but really works fast and completely on lead. Be careful about "building your own" and making up your own chemicals. Also, they work best if you use the right grade of stainless rods, like what they come with. If memory serves, they are 340 grade stainless and they conduct the electricity at the rate the machine was designed to work at. Folks at Outer's are helpful and their chemistry people quite knowledgeable.

garandsrus
02-09-2006, 11:57 PM
Hi,

I built my own unit and it works great.... It is a little different from the link above, but similar. I bought all the parts at radio shack.

I have cleaned several rifle bore's with one set of two DD batteries and they are still going strong. I really like this for the Garand since you have to clean from the muzzle if you use a cleaning rod.

I have only used it for removing copper fowling.

To remove lead in stainless handguns, I use (from http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Lead) :

A 50/50 mix of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (the common drug store variety) and white vinegar. Plug the bore, fill it up using a dropper or syringe and let it stand for 5-10 minutes. (Do not let it stand for too long.) You may get some foaming so protect the barrel's external finish as this solution is not kind to bluing--so take appropriate precautions. Drain and wipe out the black muck that used to be lead and then immediately clean well with bore cleaner.

This works really well also...

John

PatMarlin
02-10-2006, 01:56 AM
I broke down an bought one this past year as I was having a hard time getting a few of my rifles down to bare metal. It worked great, and all the heavy ram rod brusing can't be the best thing for your bore.

The chemicals are extremely mild, with vinegar being the primary solution in one, and the other close to windex. Nothing nasty there.

Funny thing though- My 1917 enfield produced small lead flakes when I empty'd out the solution. I thought it was supposed to adhear to the rod. Any thoughts on that?

David R
02-10-2006, 07:54 AM
OK, that is my project for today, to go out and get a rod. I have O rings, and the household chemicals. I even have a flashlight that fell off the fridge and broke the head off. All that is left are two copper strips coming out from the base that holds the batteries, so all I have to do is solder some wire and alagator clips on em.

Been wanting to do this for a long time, thanks for the push.

David

David R
02-12-2006, 09:17 AM
OK, I bought a 1/8" 3' steel rod at the hardware store. I taped it so it doesn't touch the barrel , mixed up water, amonia, and viniger 2 to 1 to 1.

I read back about polarity, and decided to try it both ways. With + on the electrode, it draws 25 milliamps and works slow. With - on the electrode, it draws 90 milliamps and bubbles as soon as I hook it up. It seems more gunk goes to the rod with + electrode.

Well, the first few times I left it on for 20 minutes, pulled out the rod and coldn't believe the gunk on the rod. I wiped it off, changed the solution and put it back in again. With the electrode +, I had to clean the rod off with sandpaper. All was getting is a bunch of dark green to black gunk that turned brown after it dried. Next I left it in for 1 hour. I continued for about 6 hours. Still getting gunk on the rod, lots of it. The stuff almost filled the space from the rod to the barrel. After the 6 hours and a total of around 10 cleanings of the rod I was still getting gunk on the rod, but I quit. I put the gun in my cleaning vice and ran some hoppies soaked patches through it. It took 10 patches before they stopped coming out totally black. Then I pushed a nylon brush through the barrel. It felt real odd, with LOTS of resistance is some places and a little less in others. After investagating, I realized the brush was binding where the tape was on the rod. I could see the fouling had not been removed where the tape was, so today I am going to put the rod in upside down. This way, the tape will be in a different spot.

This is on my 1917 enfield that I thought I had clean. I wasn't even close.

I will report on how it shoots later today.

My savage 340 in 30-30 is next, then the 1891 arg mauser, then my Savage 24v...............

David

trooperdan
02-12-2006, 11:31 AM
David, I think it is pretty important to keep the polarity correct. The positive should go to the rod and nagative on the barrel. I'd be pretty leery of running it reversed.

David R
02-12-2006, 11:39 AM
Thanks, I am still going at it. So far One set of duracells have been used up. Still getting the green crud on the rod and I am an hour into it today. I wonder if I am hurting the barrel. The patch goes through real hard like it is rough. Either I am pitting the barrel or not all of the fouling is out yet. I can still see a chunk of fouling just where the rifling starts. I think I must have taken out a thousandths or two of crud. I am going to slug the bore again when the job is finished.

David

twotoescharlie
02-12-2006, 01:20 PM
If not hooked up correctlly , it will work in reverse.(removing fouling from rod and putting it on the barrel.)

TTC

David R
02-12-2006, 04:23 PM
Ok,

after a long while of cleaning, probably 8 or so hours, one time the rod came out clean. No green or black gunk. Off to the range I went. Shot 50 rounds of 13 grains of RED dot with a 311466 and some 311407. No difference in how the gun shoots. 2.5 at 50 yards and around 3.5 at 100. No change in groups as far as my poor eyes could shoot. I brought the gun home, cleaned it conventionally. Then stuck the rod in again with the same electrolyte. No gunk on the rod after 15 minutes. Its still foaming, but no green or black stuff. guess I got it clean.

There are pits in the barrel., I don't know if I put them there or uncover them form all the fouling that must have been developing after 75 or so years.

I guess it was a success.

Going to shoot some more, my pet load, 60 grains of WC860 with the 311466.

David

Lee
02-12-2006, 11:36 PM
Interesting thread so far. Makes me real itchy to try this myself. I've a couple rifles that are suspect, although they look clean when sighting down the barrel.
(Anyone have any pointers on what copper fouling looks like?? Hope that isn't TOO dumb a question)

The onlyest thing that stops me from trying that right now is the "stoppering" the barrel part. I have nightmares (and with my luck!) about the stopper leaking and the solutions running all over the place.....

DavidR, from what I've read on other forums and heard around town, the pitting was most likely there, you just exposed it. Also, FWIW, although it costs a little more, go back to the hardware store and see if they have real tiny o-rings. Slip them on the rod, they will prevent the rod from touching the barrel, allowing enough slop that you won't see the "bands" of crud where the tape was..........................Lee ;-)

David R
02-13-2006, 07:02 AM
I figure if I Use orings, they will be moved everytime I clean off the rod. The tape stays in the same place.

As far as plugging the barrrel, | just took a 30 cal jag on a pistol rod with 3 patches and jammed it into the action. All of my guns are bolt or single shot.

On my next adventrue I am going to try electrical tape around the shoulder of a fired case.

David

lovedogs
02-17-2006, 07:52 PM
David R.... You're right about the "O" rings. That works better. It's common to find a bbl. has been pitted after years of not ever really being cleaned. I had a sad case of one old guy who had stored his "pristine" Pre-64 in a wool-lined case. He oiled it up every year and thought it was fine. When we got all the copper out it was so pitted it looked like a sewer pipe in that bbl. I clean everything down to bare steel since that experience.

David R
02-17-2006, 09:57 PM
OK, I tried a few more things.

1) I used some 3/32" 316 (stainless) welding rod. Nothing. 1/8" Mild steel worked better.

2) O rings work better than tape.

3) I cut the solution and it didn't work near as well.

4) I am going to find a small transformer, this is killing me in D batteries.

5) Once the rod gets old, it does not clean as well.

6) I tried wrapping 2 layers of teflon tape on the shoulder of a fired case. It sealed well. I also tried driving a pure lead 30 cal boolit with a patch in the muzzle. It also worked well.

I am sold. Nothing has even come close to how dirty my enfeild was.

Thanks for the education, I now have another way to clean rifles.

David

garandsrus
02-18-2006, 12:51 AM
David R,

I just use a rubber stopper, like a test tube stopper, to plug the chamber. You can find several sizes of these at many hardware stores and home centers. Push it in so it is a snug fit. I haven't had any fall out, but I put a plastic container underneath the barrel just in case.

John

nelson133
02-18-2006, 06:16 AM
I use a small 2 amp battery charger for power. I have read that you can use one of those little wall ac/dc units, cut off the tip and attach alligator clips. Cleaning the rod with steel wool or one of those pot scrubber things will restore it.

omgb
02-18-2006, 11:13 PM
I used cork. I drilled a hole in it to center the rod. I wrapped electrician's tape at several points so that it wouldn't short out. Then I hooked it up to the battery using gater clips. It worked pretty well on an old nagant. Then I used it on my P17 Enfield and it worked good there too. Finally, I used on a Sharps leaded up. Worked there too.

David R
02-19-2006, 01:38 AM
Tried a small 7 AH 12 v gell cell today. I think its too much, the barrel got warm and I could see a spark when I hooked up the aligator clips. LOTSA black and green gunk, but maybe 6 volts would be more reasonable. Cleaned my son's 1891 Arg today. I also did the savage 340 I recently bought. Savage has nice sharp rifling, mauser has rounded smoothed out rifling. Both really needed it. I am sold. Still perfecting my method, but is working well.

I tried the 316 stainless rod, but no joy there at all. Mild steel rod made a bunch of black , rust and green stuff.

David

rocklock
02-19-2006, 09:09 PM
Funny thing though- My 1917 enfield produced small lead flakes when I empty'd out the solution. I thought it was supposed to adhear to the rod. Any thoughts on that?

My M74/80 Gras did the same thing. Before using the Foul-Out I thought the bore was clean. After 2 hours I drained the solution, ran a dry patch down the barrel and got mucho black goo and a bunch of lead slivers.

My theory is that the lead was trapped between 2 layers of carbon fouling and when the fouling softened the lead just came loose.

David R
02-19-2006, 09:23 PM
Its been real cold out, so today I cleaned my 1891 arg mauser. Now that its clean, I can see that it is also shot out. The rifling starts a long ways down and is worn to round. NO wonder I cluldn't seat em out far enough. I also did my Savage 340 in 30-30. Nice sharp rifling.

Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this project. Only one more to do. My Savage 24V in 222. Barrel in that one looked terrible when it was new.

I clean all my rifles regularly, but aparently there was more there than I ever knew.

David

David R
02-21-2006, 09:34 PM
You guys are probably geting tired of this.

A few more things. I did my 24V 222 barrel today. I used the 12 volt gel cell and 316 stainless rod. I filled it up, hooked it up and it went bubbeling away. After about 1/2 hour, the barrel was too hot to touch. I pulled out the stainless rod and no joy. The rod had nothing stuck to it except a little brown stuff. could have been copper, but I don't think so. No green or brown foam. I poured what was left out of the barrel. NO black flakes, no chunks of stuff. The sollution wasn't even discolored much. I pushed hoppies soaked patch after patch through the barrel. They came out black and after about 15 they were grey. I think the barrel cleaned some because of the heat, not the chemical action of the solution. I am going to do it again with a mild steel rod and 6 volts.

1) Steel rod is better
2) 12 volts are too many

David

Lee
02-22-2006, 01:26 AM
David R, no not getting tired of this thread at all. Keep posting your results. Makes for good reading, makes for a better experience for any of us who attempt to do what you are doing. Thanks in advance.............Lee ;-)

fiberoptik
02-22-2006, 06:51 PM
Same here. We like learning from other's mistakes/experience. Saves wear & tear on us.

David R
02-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Well thanks guys, I like making mistakes and expeermenting....Cant speel either.

David

GregP42
02-23-2006, 07:47 AM
I built one of these last year myself, works great.

Things I have learned,
1) put a rheostat inline to set the current flow.
2) 30 - 40 milli amps is all that I have needed, more than that and it gets hot.
3) 3 volts will do just fine, 6 is the most I have tried.
4) DO NOT GET THE SOLUTION ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BARREL!!

Other than that mine works great, I hook my amp meter inline to set up the rheostat, then hook everything back up and walk off and leave it running.

Greg