load help, 30-06 with cast bullets.

[Shadow9mm]

So I cast for and shoot several handgun bullets, but have never cast for or used cast bullets for rifle cartridges. Currently casing 9mm for semi autos, 38spl for a snubbie, 357 for a 6in barrel, and 44spl and 44mag for a 20in barrel henry rifle.

I have a 30-06, and I ordered the lee C309-170-F, 170g flat point mold. I will be powder coating and gas checking. Planned to size to .309

I understand you cannot push cast bullets at the velocities I am used to with jacketed bullets and am limited to about 2200fps on the top end. These loads will be for fun, punching paper, at about 100yds, and letting the kids play with the big bolt gun.

I would prefer to use a powder I already have, but I understand I may need to add a new powder to my lineup. With that said, I don't want to buy multiple powders, I am hoping for 1 powder, work up a load, and shoot. I currently have Big Game, BL-c(2), CFE223, H335, H110, Lil Gun, HP-38, AA #7, and Power Pistol. I have had great luck with Power Pistol in my 44spl loads in my 20in barrel Henry. Other powders seem to burn up too fast, or not produce enough gas volume.

I have done some reading on mouse fart loads with Unique and 2400. I also have the lyman cast bullet book that I am still digging into.

Will any of the powder I have be suitable? If not, is there one powder that will be most likely to work well as a beginner with cast bullets in rifles?

[Winger Ed.]

Do some research on 'the load'.
Put 'The Load' or 'Red Dot rifle loads' in a search engine and lots of info & articles will pop up.
It's 13 gr. of Red Dot for the .30-06.

I cast a 170 RN and 190SP for .30-06.
For several reasons, I'm happy with it.

[RickinTN]

Good advice from Winger Ed. The only powder you have that may work is Power Pistol but I can't recommend a charge weight for you, maybe others can. The ones which burn too fast and don't produce enough gas volume are the ones you want. I would suggest keeping velocities between 1,100 and 1,500 fps or so. Red dot, at between 10 and 13 grains is a favorite of mine.
Good Luck,
Rick

[charlie b]

But he doesn't have Red Dot.

I like to use rifle powders for cast, but, I have only used the stick powders, such as 4198, 4895, 3031 for velocities in the 1700-2000fps range. They are position sensitive.

For plinking (but you don't have any of these powders either)

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Shadow9mm]

I don't mind adding a new powder, and somewhat figured I might have to. I am just trying to avoid having 2, or 3 or 5 new powders just sitting around, that did not work well, and are now just taking up shelf space, with no possible use in sight. From that aspect unique or 2400 seem like good options as I could use either in some of the other cartridges I reload for. However my focus is on the best powder for the 30-06 with these cast bullets.

[Mk42gunner]

2400 will work. As a bonus, it will also perform well in the .357 and .44's.

Robert

[Winger Ed.]

If you can't find a proper selection, check in your Lyman Cast bullets handbook.
There are actually several that do well, and grab what's available.

[Hick]

HP-38 will also work with the lee 309-170F. I use 7.0 grains for subsonic (1050 fps), 12.5 grains for 1500 fps. I use them in Garand 30-06 in non-cycling mode (treating it like a bolt rifle) and get groups under 3" at 100 yards.

[Texas by God]

Call Hodgdon and ask them first; but of the powders you listed Power Pistol is near Unique in burn rate, and CFE 223 is near BLC2.
If CFE 223 can be reduced safely, 30-30 Winchester 170gr data will work in your 30-06. My new '06 likes that C309170F but I've only used Unique, Red Dot, and 4198 so far.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've used HP38 in 30-30, 308, 300 Savage, 32 Special, 8x57 with success. 7-12 grains should work. In the Lee Reloading Handbook (2nd edition), Richard Lee lists quite a few loads with BL(C2) and H335 at low to at least 2200+ fps for 30-30, 308 and 30-06 and the Lee 309-170. Depending on the rifle, try .309, .310 and .311. I usually start with .310 as it has worked better than .309 for me.

[charlie b]

If you are going to add one, then I'd find some 2400. I haven't seen any available in a long time (no red dot either), which is why I use 4198 and 3031.

[243winxb]

4895 , Hodgdon or IMR. For 30-30, 30-06 , 308 Win. Forget ball powders.

[MT Gianni]

I don't see that you have listed any powders applicable for cast with the possible exception of AA7. Try slow pistol powders or extremely slow rifle powders. I had decent accuracy with BLC2 in the 308 with light bullets but have never checked it out in 06.

[farmbif]

if getting a new powder 4198 and reloader 7 are very good for cast rifle loads

[atr]

if you are going to add a powder I would recommend 2400. It is not position sensitive and it does very well in the -06.

[pworley1]

+1 on 2400.

[jaysouth]

Here is some data for HP-38/231. Click on the 170 load data under the 30-06 heading on the left margin.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Shadow9mm]

I did, thank you!

For now I am going to go with HP-38 as I have a fair bit on hand. I do plan to get 1lb of 2400 to try next trip to the gun shop (2hr drive)

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I've done a lot of testing with loads for my Springfield 03 and have found that the best powders are those that give at least 60% load density. My rifle has a 12X Leuopold scope and a new 4 groove barrel that has never seen "J" boolits. I am loading 31.5gn of 3031 under a Lyman 311284 which weighs 206.8gn with my alloy.

It took me over 600 rounds but I have managed a 100yd 10 shot group under MOA, if fact that day I managed two such groups!

https://i.imgur.com/SabiU6Dl.jpg

[MUSTANG]

Shadow9mm was looking to use powder he had. He had BLC-2 not any of most of the suggestions. My thoughts -

I would start by trying 31 Grains of BLC-2, a dacron tuft to fill the space over the powder & keep it on the primer, your lee C309-170-F, 170g flat point boolit lubed and sized to .310. I got there by adapting the W748 data and substituting the use of BLC-2 which is close to the same burn rate. Try an increase of a grain at a time till the accuracy goes South from too much velocity for the alloy you are using in your cast boolits.

The following table was taken from the Lyman Cast Bullet HandBook - 3rd Edition. The Lyman 31141 is similar weight.

Click on picture to Enlarge and read more easily.

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[1006]

301364Tried to post a picture of some data from Lyman’s Cast Reloading Manual, but it was blurry.

If you can find a copy, it has a lot of data for the 30/06.

[1006]

A post from several years ago-good info from some experts:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?315846-30-06-lightweight-quot-training-loads-quot

[MUSTANG]

Below is an expanded pic of the 311291 (169 Grain) data from the same source. It is not as crisp as might be desired; but still quite readable. For both this pic and my previous one; a reader can click on the picture and it will open in a different window - but expanded much larger - which helps in readability for those with more seasoned eyes.


301365

[MUSTANG]

It just struck me that Shadow9mm and other readers might not yet have the background to understand my post when I stated that W748 and BLC-2 had similar burn rates. For their clarification; the following is an extract from one of many "Powder Burn Rate Charts".

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A complete pdf version of this "Powder Burn Rate Chart" can be found at: https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/burn-rate-color.pdf

[garrisonjoe]

Bullet hardness is more important as you start to make rifle slugs. I get excellent plinking performance (1400 FPS) in 30-06 with Brinnell Hardness of 16, and hunting performance (1900-2000 FPS) at 30 Brinnell Hardness (that obtained with heat treat - water quenching).

good luck, garrisonjoe

[Adk Mike]

301388
I like 13 grains of Unique with a 311291 sized to .311
Nice groups at 50 and 100

[Adk Mike]

I forget to mention the rifle is a US model 1917 made by Remington.
One of the best shooting rifles I’ve ever owned

[robg]

2400 is very flexible .works in 357mag/308 and 45-70.

[Shadow9mm]

well, my case flare tool should be in here in a few days. I decided to start with HP-38 as i have that on hand. I struck out on 2400 but there is one other shop I can look at next week for it.

I decided to size the bullets to .309, as that is the sizer I have. Then powder coat to try and bump the size up a bit.

[405grain]

As others have pointed out: 2400 is not sensitive to position and requires no fillers. You can get good velocities and accuracy with it. I've had success using it in 30-06 with the 200 grain Lyman # 311299. Load what you can with what you've got on hand, but keep an eye out for some 2400; it's a good powder.

[Shadow9mm]

I'm still looking, but the shop I stopped at saturday did not have any 2400, I do really want to try it. Im hoping to swing by the other shop wed or thurs.

[GooseGestapo]

The Lee .309-170gr FN is my second favorite .30cal cast bullet.
Of your current powders, Power Pistol would be where I’d start.
PP isn’t listed in many sources because it’s just too new. For historical reference, it was originally called Bullseye ‘84. It’s a fine grain double base powder just like Bullseye, and Unique. It has the flake size of original Bullseye but is a tad bit slower burning than Unique.
I’d use the starting load for Unique and work up to max load for Unique.

For an upper power load, use the BLC2. Lee#2 lists loads with it on page 153. I’ve never used BLC2 in the .30/06, but my favorite load in the .35Rem is with a RCBS 200gr FNGC over 39.5gr.
The aforementioned 31.5gr load should be a good one.
Use a LR MAGNUM primer if you can get any. BLC2 is a spherical powder and works better in cold weather with a hotter primer.

Another strong recommendation is to size 0.311”!
With powder coat, you may likely be able to skip the gas check.

[gwpercle]

This data is from RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1
30-06 170 gr. FP GC sized: .309"
Powder - H335

starting Load - 30.0 grs @ 1813 fps

Maximum Load - 32.0 @ 1966 fps .



BBS (Beg , Borrow or Steal) some Red Dot Powder and Load 13.0 grs under that 170 gr. boolit ...
It's a "special " load ! .... It's ... " The Load " and we Thank Mr. C.E. Harris for it !

I have a manual that shows loads for the 30-06 / 170 gr. FP GC and Red Dot powder as:

starting load - 10.5 grs. @ 1355 fps

maximum load - 13.5 grs @ 1585 fps

Several years ago I had read the article "The Load or: what you can do with 13.0 grs. red dot"... then later ... saw 3 cans Red Dot sitting on dealer's shelf ... I bought one and gave "The Load" a good try , shot them Sunday and Monday went to dealers and bought the other two cans Red Dot ...yeah , it's that good ...Red Dot and cast boolits became my new Match Made in Heaven ... wonderful in rifle and handgun loads .
Gary