Looking for some safe smokeless loads for an original Winchester 1873 in 44/40?

[S.B.]

I plan on shooting smokeless rounds in this rifle if possible. This is a post iron frame gun.
Steve

[indian joe]

I plan on shooting smokeless rounds in this rifle if possible. This is a post iron frame gun.
Steve

search "Savvy Jack" - Bryan Austin - hes the man - has posted a heap of stuff on load testing the 44/40 - pressures etc - likely he would tell you try RE7
I say stay away from light loads of fast powder in this old gun - too easy to spike pressure with pistol powders. If its got a decent bore why not use proper blackpowder in it ?

[pworley1]

This is a good place to look https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

[Outpost75]

Accurate 43-215C bullet cast 1 to 30 tin-lead with 24.5 grains of RL7, 22 grains of 4198 or 18.5 grains of 4227 all good in original 1873. Savvy Jack is the guru, having picked up the torch from the late John Kort, who taught us all.

[Savvy Jack]

Thanks for the kind words fellas. John was the best!


I plan on shooting smokeless rounds in this rifle if possible. This is a post iron frame gun.
Steve

The Smokeless Powder Myth
Does not matter if it is post iron or not, big myth carried over from 1900-1909 Colt revolvers, as long as you follow the load manuals. However, even I go easy on the old girls. Winchester never ceased production of smokeless powder loads for their rifles, only suggested them not be used in Revolvers from about 1900 till 1909. Not only were the new 1895 smokeless loads manufactured for the Winchester 73", they were also Jacketed Soft Points......BUT.....they were .4255" not .427". The powder and charge used from 1895 till 1925 never changed....or may have reduced from 17gr to 16gr or even 15gr....still working on that information.
301127

Bore Size Matters, as does bullet size and hardness.
It is best to first slug the bore to find the bore size. The bore size can range from .422" to .433/.436" (typically .429") and shooting hard cast .430" (44 magnum bullet) in a .422" bore at max loads will cause you troubles. Shooting soft .428's in a .424" might not be as bad but lighter loads would be better in case they create high pressures. Soft lead (pure lead) .427" will work accurately for all bore sizes.

Powders
Pistol powders best used in pistols but are fine to about 75 yards in carbines. Unique use to be a reduced rifle load powder and still works great out to 100 yards, Outpost has great results with Bullseye in revolvers and should be satisfactory in rifles or carbines at "shorter" ranges (as compared to 200 yards+). 2400 and IMR4227 work better for they are actually mid-range slower burning rifle powders. Yes, Reloder 7 is my preferred rifle powder but like black powder, it can get expensive using lots of powder. It is about the slowest burning powder that can be used. Trail Boss (A FAST BURNING PISTOL POWDER) works fine as a "bulky" powder but is expensive as such and velocities suffer significantly. I love shooting 6.4gr of the stuff at 265yards. Fairly accurate but would never hunt with it. Other powders work too but I can't try them all.

Manuals
Always use current manuals....as an example, in the link below, note the bore sized used is .436"

This is a good place to look https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

Back to Bullets
The most popular "Magma" (Magma Engineering Commercial Bullet Molds) type hard cast bullets (Oregon Trail's Laser Cast) are now even hard to find but will be good to start with. Care must be used to make sure "fat" bullets do not hit the lands when chambered in tight chambers or high pressures can be created.

If you cast your own.....they are many options but if not using bulk load powders, it is best to use the Accurate Molds 43-215C. It is the same basic design as the Lyman 427098 but a crimp groove was added as well as a large lube groove for black powder.

Dies
Using standard ".427" dies will make you say ugly words if you end up having to use large diameter bullets. You will crush many cases. Can't stuff a .430" in a hole sized for a .427".

Dump any old vintage die sets made for the Winchester .4255" JSP bullets and get at least a Lee set for .427" lead bullets, RCBS "Cowboy" dies for for .428/.429" lead bullets and you may have to use "other" sources for larger diameter bullets for longevity of the brass cases.

This post is missing tons of important information but it will certainly get ya started in the right direction.