Lee sizer question

[montana_charlie]

I have a .459 sizing die for my Lyman #45. I am convinced it would produce a bullet of .459" if it was cast from Lyman #2 alloy. But a 'soft' bullet comes out at slightly under .458" because there is no 'springback'.

Now, I find myself wondering if Lee push-through sizers follow the same pattern.
Most specifically, what is the actual 'hole dimension' in the .451 sizer that Lee sells?

Does anybody use that one?
Can you 'slug it' with soft lead and give me the measurement?

CM

[Pat I.]

I just ran some WW bullets through my .451 Lee sizer and they came out at .451 on the nose. If the bullet's ending up too small with your alloy the Lee dies open up real fast if you coat a few bullets with 320 compound and run them through. If you're looking for a specific size check it often because they open up pretty fast.

[montana_charlie]

Actually, I am hoping a Lee sizer has a .450" hole in it. That is why I asked for the measurement of a soft lead slug. I expect (even) wheelweight to have some springback...though I don't know how much.
CM

[TAWILDCATT]

whyndo you think lead springs back????it does not if the hole in die is .451 thats the size the bullet will be.
one way to make impact hammers work better is to resize the loaded rd to depth of bullet.the brass springs back the lead does not.so the bullet comes out of case easier. :coffeecom [smilie=1:

[ktw]

I have around 10 of the Lee push through sizers. Only one of them sized to the nominal size as received (WW alloy). All of the others needed to be honed out to varying degrees to reach nominal size. The latest was a ".309" that sized to .3085. None of them were oversized as received.

-ktw

[montana_charlie]

whyndo you think lead springs back????it does not if the hole in die is .451 thats the size the bullet will be.
Well, I'm not the only one who thinks so...

- From the Corbin site (swaging equipment):
"The core will come out almost the same diameter as the bore of the die, because lead is a "dead" material that does not exhibit much springback."

The context is pure lead, and even that "does not exhibit much springback".


- From a discussion on Shooters Forum:
"My NEI bullet drops from the mold about .301". I often size my patched bullets through a push through size die. My Winchester Big Bore seems to prefer bullets at least .310" in diameter. There is springback. That is a patched bullet run through the .310" size die springs back to 3115" or so."

The context is paper patched bullets cast from alloy comprised of .22LR range scrap...close to pure lead.


- From the end of a discussion at Shooters Forum (about springback) where the poster (finally) checked pure lead against his casting alloy. A 'disbeliever' (like you) maintained that a 'too-large' bullet coming out of a sizing die was due to the die stretching as the bullet was inserted.
" I just went down stairs and did a .490 round ball through a lee push through sizer. This is a beefy piece of metal. It measured .430. Next I did a 44 magnum 22 BHN bullet and pushed it through...reads 431. I'm thinking that water dropped wheel wieght must spring back a thousandth."


If you still don't believe that lead alloys exhibit springback...you might be part of an ever-shrinking minority.
I was told by Lyman that they allow for it when producing their 'H & I' dies. That is why (they said) my '459' sizer produces .458" bullets when soft lead is used.

Now, if anybody has the capability, I would like to know what the diameter is of a soft lead slug...after passing it through a Lee 451 sizer die.
CM

[Buckshot]

..............Not that I'm a metalurgist, or play one on TV but I DO have this in my size die information:

"Tolerance is nominal to +.0003". They're proofed with a WW slug. As you know, from very soft to very hard alloys will size to different OD's in the same die. If you want to size very hard, or very soft bullets to an exact diameter, please provide 3 slugs in that alloy, otherwise WW does a creditable job for 95% of shooting cast. "

Compared to other metals lead is pretty 'dead', but it ain't all dead :-)

................Buckshot

[montana_charlie]

As you know, from very soft to very hard alloys will size to different OD's in the same die.
I wonder if TAWILDCATT is convinced, yet.

CM

[454PB]

Charlie, I have a Lee .451" and some pure lead balls. I'll do a test for you tomorrow and report back.

[lathesmith]

Charlie, I unfortunately cannot answer your question about the Lee sizer, but I would like to help you put to rest the myth that lead alloys exibit zero springback. My own experience shows that different alloys not only cast at slightly different sizes, but they also come out of the sizing die slightly *larger* than the die itself--again, how much larger depends on the alloy. I have had more than one customer inform me that their lead slugs actually are a slightly larger size 24 hours AFTER sizing than they are right after sizing. Yes, we are talking a few ten-thousanths here...but still measurable. "Springback" is the only logical explanation.

lathesmith

[docone31]

I just cast and sized some for my .303 British. They drop at .314, nose at .304. I size them to .308, then paper patch.
I do get some springback on them. Some more than others.
I am not that careful on alloying. Sometimes they are pure wheel weight, sometimes they are mystery metal with wheel weight. None are pure lead.
I can size them through the .308 die, and after I patch, the leftovers sometimes grow. Routinely, I get .3085. When they come out of the die, they are .308 dead on. There is some growth.
The way the die works, it goes through a ring in the die that tapers to the ring. The casting is centered, then shaved down, or more, planished down. After that, there has been some measureable growth.
I think that helps tighten my patches. I am pretty happy with the system I use.
Again, I have no clue on my alloys. There is some zinc, tin, wheel weight, pure lead. When I first melted it together I melted it all together. Sometimes I still do. I am blending my mystery metal into the roof lead I am being given on weekends at the shop.
With whatever I have been casting, I have experienced growth from sizing the casting.

[hooverdm]

but they also come out of the sizing die slightly *larger* than the die itself--again, how much larger depends on the alloy. I have had more than one customer inform me that their lead slugs actually are a slightly larger size 24 hours AFTER sizing than they are right after sizing. Yes, we are talking a few ten-thousanths here...but still measurable. "Springback" is the only logical explanation.

lathesmith

Isn't the question about spring back from sizing, not casting? It is pretty well understood (isn't it?) that different alloys come out of moulds at different diameters, but once a boolit has stabalized at whatever diameter, will it maintain the diameter of the sizinng die or rebound? Just a thought.

Dave H

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, I have a Lee .451" and some pure lead balls. I'll do a test for you tomorrow and report back.
Copy that, Helena. Crow Bench standing by...

[454PB]

I did four tests, from pure lead to the alloy I use for magnum handgun loads. The first 3 softer alloys measured exactly .451". The hardest was very slightly larger as you can see. I saved these samples for more tests as they "age". I've read of boolit diameters increasing over time, but I doubt that it does. I've never actually done a test, so this is a good chance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/SizertestSmall.jpg

[montana_charlie]

Well, that's pretty definitive, 454PB. I guess I'll have to ask Buckshot to make a sizer for me...
CM

[docone31]

So, dental foil is 8.7.
Now I know.
I was given a bunch from a dentist I know. I blended it in with some of my real hard stuff, then cast with it, and they came out great.