Investments

[JRLesan]

The stock market IS a much better investment than firearms UNLESS one collects only VERY HIGH END specimens in which case they (most likely) have accumulated wealth.

[John Guedry]

Buy Ruger.

[FISH4BUGS]

Wait until the market tanks and tanks badly.....which it will.
You might wish to rethink that position.
The stock market is like Las Vegas - a total crap shoot.

[GhostHawk]

Fish4bugs nailed it. History repeats, you forget the depression and the dirty 30's so fast?

My uncles used to play in the stock market. Some of them made some pretty good money doing it.
But one uncle warned me. You put money in the stock market, the really big money boys run that market up and down as they see fit.

And he pointed out where these billion dollar players would all sell a particular stock or groups of stocks short. And those stocks would plummet. They would ride it down until they had made a pile. Cash out, and turn around and buy those same stocks, thus injecting confidence in the stock, and the stock would shoot up. They made big money both ways.

Me I'd rather have a nice gun safe full of classics. They can only take them from me if I let them.

[JRLesan]

Investments are typically long term as in 'saving for the future'. I was born in '49. Suppose my rich uncle invested $100.00 in the S&P500 when I arrived. Name one firearm available back about then that cost around $100.00 that, if put away NIB, would approach that dollar investment today...

[gwpercle]

Wait until the market tanks and tanks badly.....which it will.
You might wish to rethink that position.
The stock market is like Las Vegas - a total crap shoot.

I like the odds at the Las Vegas Craps Tables better !
The money I gave to "investor's " who were going to build me a nest egg for retirement ...
just magically went away ... Oh Sorry, the stock market tanked ... your money is gone .
I'm not sure, but it seems to me , the whole stock market racket is geared for rich people getting richer and poor working people getting poorer .
I'll invest in guns !
Gary

[TyGuy]

Investing in guns is a lot like investing in cars. NIB safe queens and low mileage garage queens are where the money is. Transferable MGs seem to be on a steady climb but not sure they really outpace inflation. Still, if the stock market really tanks I think I would rather have that MG than a classic car…

[trebor44]

ROI - Return On Investment. Now or in the future? Percentage?

[dverna]

The stock market IS a much better investment than firearms UNLESS one collects only VERY HIGH END specimens in which case they (most likely) have accumulated wealth.

I went though this on this forum a while back and had my butt handed to me. People want to justify they are doing the "smart thing". If their toys appreciate in value, they believe they have been smart.

It is interesting that people will hold on to a gun for 50 years and brag their $35 M-1 is now worth $1800. But $35 invested the S&P in 1972 is worth $5000 today. Never argue with "logic" like that.

People investing in the market for the long term will be successful. But many people sell when the market drops and take a hit. Then they buy too late during the rebound. Long term investors profit from the losses these folks take. And many small investors get "worked over" by so called "financial planners". I had that happen when I was younger.

It is stupid for people to have all their money in the stock market, but it is not smart to have nothing in the market (unless a person does not have a long life expectancy). I could not have retired 10 years ago without investing the market. Even with the recent slump, I have more money now than I did 10 years ago. The value of my gun collection has not kept pace. The value of my components has done much better due to the shortages.

I know only two people who retired comfortably without investing in the market. They invested in their business and in land.

[kerplode]

I went though this on this forum a while back and had my butt handed to me. People want to justify they are doing the "smart thing". If their toys appreciate in value, they believe they have been smart.

It is interesting that people will hold on to a gun for 50 years and brag their $35 M-1 is now worth $1800. But $35 invested the S&P in 1972 is worth $5000 today. Never argue with "logic" like that.

People investing in the market for the long term will be successful. But many people sell when the market drops and take a hit. Then they buy too late during the rebound. Long term investors profit from the losses these folks take. And many small investors get "worked over" by so called "financial planners". I had that happen when I was younger.

It is stupid for people to have all their money in the stock market, but it is not smart to have nothing in the market (unless a person does not have a long life expectancy). I could not have retired 10 years ago without investing the market. Even with the recent slump, I have more money now than I did 10 years ago. The value of my gun collection has not kept pace. The value of my components has done much better due to the shortages.

I know only two people who retired comfortably without investing in the market. They invested in their business and in land.

^ Truth!

And if you're using terms like "Playing the market", "Like Vegas", "A crap shoot", etc, then you almost certainly will lose your money. Best you stick to cash or just be honest with yourself and go buy lottery tickets instead. Investing isn't gambling.

[jmorris]

The stock market IS a much better investment than firearms UNLESS one collects only VERY HIGH END specimens in which case they (most likely) have accumulated wealth.

Yeah, I’d have taken $100k of transferable machineguns in May of ‘86 than all of the Bear Stearns, American International Group Inc, XL Group and Genworth Financial Inc stocks that ever existed.

It’s only as safe as what “investments” you can get talked into.

[kootne]

My wife is a CPA. She gets various accounting related periodicals. One is Kiplinger Tax Letter. I read that one because it is just high-lights of subjects and is only four pages long. I still remember reading an article that compared how people did return wise based on the number of various investment areas they were in. On average, the people who were invested in 7 or more areas did much better over time than the people investing in only one or two.
I had a good laugh because of something I had just read in the "Good Book" a day before.
Ecclesiastes 11:2, "Divide your portion to seven or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may befall you on the earth."

[Lifeshort]

Never lost a $ on guns. May not make as much as investing but the enjoyment I get from casting, reloading, and shooting is unmeasurable.

[Handloader109]

Guns are a very poor investment except for just the pleasure in their use. Sure, if you have the foresight and the money to buy up a pile of those worthless Uzis way back in 1986, you might have earned a nice pile of cash. But that $400 gun cost would have earned you roughly $12000 in those 36 years if invested in that losing stock market. And if you were that smart, investing in certain companies would have earned you a million on that $400. Apple being one of them.
And folks, no one since the 29 crash has lost "everything" in ANY stock market correction. Companies will fail, Enron, WorldCom, but unless you are stupid, you don't put all your money in one stock
Yeah, I'm down 20% since last year, but I'm still more than double since 2017. When the stock market goes down, you do not sell, you BUY.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[NyFirefighter357]

The average person doesn't buy guns for investment.

[Hick]

The stock market IS a much better investment than firearms UNLESS one collects only VERY HIGH END specimens in which case they (most likely) have accumulated wealth.

and nobody is trying to pass laws to take away your stock market investment

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have a long story about the gains of investments in guns, but that first canoe accident ate up all the profits.

[john.k]

Best I have done is land .....2020 ,I sold my junkyard for $1m (OK its OZ pesos) that I bought in 1980 for $8000.......and sale was tax free,I paid not one penny in tax......The farm Im sitting on now was bought by my father in 1952 for $400.......now Im paying tax on a Govt valuation of $1 1/2m,and every week I get offers of $3m +............My old man used to say .....land for lazy people....its the only thing you can leave out in the weather and sell for more than it cost.

[bangerjim]

Don't think about guns for long-term REAL financial investments. Or the stock markets! Think about what I did, and go through a registered fiduciary investment firm (not a stock broker or banker) and put your money in fixed annuities. Those financial tools gain money (5-8% per annum) when the markets go up and hold rock steady (no loss) when the markets go down. I have never lost a dime over the past 16 years investing like that. My multi-digit nest egg is totally safe and secure and totally accessible anytime. 100% guaranteed and secure.

The wife dabbles (heavily) in the markets with her multi-digits of (side) play money and gains and looses as the market pendulums swings, but never sells. You only loose when you sell lower than you bought! Only buy dividend-paying stocks, and nothing else. Even if it is some "widget" you really like and use....if no dividend is paid...do not buy it! We live on those dividends.... and have a really nice cash flow coming in every month.

Invest wisely. Invest early. Invest smart. Guns cannot do that. Primers cannot do that. Lead cannot do that. Nor can the markets.

[john.k]

When I was about 12 ,my old man put a fair ammount in stocks for me and my brother......I had a lot in a Copper mine ,and over 15 years ,the stocks never rose ,mainly I suspect because the CEOs in London and New York made sure they didnt....A lot in a major industrial conglomerate.....blue chip to bust due to recessions,cheap offshoring by competition,bad mistakes with foreign investments......and finally a takeover by asset strippers.....I think I had to take .50c a unit for $10 stock a decade before,and the asset strippers made millions from the large land holdings .

[lavenatti]

I've been investing for 30+ years. Chose to make the stock market one of my hobbies. Learned how to invest to minimize taxes when I retire early and get free health care at the same time. The downturn in the market now is normal and it's a buying opportunity while everything is on sale.
This "hobby" already allowed my wife to retire at 60 and as soon as hit the same age I'll retire as well. I should be able to spend about twice what I'm living on now and still continue to see an increase in net worth.

Needless to say I'm a big fan of the market.

[bangerjim]

Another investment I forgot to mention - - - - - - collectable whiskey and scotch! OMG! What a run I have had. Sorry, you cannot open it !!!!!!!!!!!! Only look at it!

2 bottles of 12 YO rare limited release bourbon - - bought for $75.00 3 years ago now worth over $2,000 a bottle.

8 bottles of single malt scotch -----bought at Costco for $20 each in late 2021, now worth over $50 a bottle

3 bottles of Irish single malt (sequentially serialized) ------ bought at Costco for $60 each 2 years ago now worth over $400 a bottle.

4 bottles of high-end Japanese whisky bought for Total Wine concierge for $60 now worth over $250 a bottle

3 bottles of limited-edition scotch from TW concierge for $70 a bottle now worth over $250 a bottle

4 bottles of rare 12 YO cognac from TW for $70 a bottle 2 years ago, now worth well over $300 a bottle.

All current prices are from the net.

You definitely cannot beat those profit margins with guns and lead in that short time frame! Unless you steal the guns!! [smilie=f:

Just do not open the bottles!

banger :guntootsmiley:

[jonp]

Ive sold a few firearms lately and not high va!ue ones for twice what i paid for them a few years ago

[elmacgyver0]

I'm not into money, if I have enough to eat, pay my bills and taxes with a little left over for a few toys, I'm happy.
I don't have a vehicle under 20 years old, not into cars, thank God.

[bedbugbilly]

I talked to our broker today and his report was that on the average, investments are down 14% to 14.5%. While are IRAs are down that much, our stock investments, which were invested in for the long haul and diversified, are only down around 7%.

Nobody knows how all of this crap is going to sift out. Yesterday, gas here for low octane regular was $5.17/gallon (lower Michigan). On our way home from Arizona, we would pull in to gas up and the previous sales on the pumps were often anywhere from $80 to $95. My comment to my wife at the time was that I'm glad I'm not filling up a pick-up. Yesterday, the previous sale on the pump we pulled in to to top off at showed a $10 sale - FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF LESS THAN 2 GALLONS OF GAS. That tells me a lot right there.

You can all argue about which is a better investment - stocks or guns. But remember something . . . even in a Recession . not a Depression . . . many people . . . young, old, working, retired, single parent or two parents . . . are strapped for money. "What do I pay for? Gas to get to work or food for the kids. The doctor bill or my heating bill?" My point is this. If you think guns "appreciate" so much . . they soon become a non liquid asset. To sell them at what you think is an "appreciated" value . you have to have a buyer with the money.

Yea . . how soon we forget . . . and some have really forgotten what it was like during the Obama/Idiot Administration. I haven't. You couldn't sell real estate. I had a house that was my mother's that I needed to get sold. I had it appraised at the time her death and by the time I was able to get the estate settled and put it up for sale . . . it was a buyer's market. Property was bringing about 30 to 40 percent of what it had been appraised at. We had my M in L in Assisted Living and a lot of those folks had to move out and find another place to live because they could no longer afford to pay the room and board,. It took me almost three years to get the house sold and I had one offer . . . and it was a nice house sitting on 7l5 acres. The only reason I had an offer was because a woman who had boohoo bucks was going to buy it for her sister and her brother to have a place to I've,. Until I got it sold at about 40% of appraised value, I had three years of taxes, three years of maintenance, mowing, heating in the winter, etc. At the same time, I decided to liquidate some guns from my collection and I sold them through a good gun shop that I know the owner. They were put up on GB. A lot of them are nice collector pieces. I didn't need the money, but I didn't want them around anymore as we were spending the winters in Arizona and I was afraid of break-ins and theft. They, too, brought prices considerably below what their value had once been. Again . . a shortage of extra cash equals a decrease in buyers and decrease in selling price. A guy can't spend money on a gun if he is having to pay super inflated prices of all the necessities of life.

Stocks, real estate, precious metals, guns, collector cars . . what ever it is all a crap shoot. Don't foo yourself.

[memtb]

The stock market is great…..if you stay in for the long haul! If you wanna get rich quick…..about as good as Vegas or the lottery. A pretty wise friend gave me this market advice……”Bulls make money, Bears make money, and Pigs get slaughtered”! Be conservative on the investments and ride out the bumps! memtb

[Kosh75287]

MAIN holdings in Russell 3000 index fund, maybe 25% that amount in Nasdaq Index, then no more than 4% each in Ruger, ATK, AMD, GLD. Then, outside the stock market, it's time to go long on "beans, bullets & bullion", or "grub, guns & gold", to put it in other terms. Andy Navarro said, before the (STOLEN) Presidential election, "If Biden wins, I'M going long on Guns, Precious metals, and antidepressants..."
I find his inclination difficult to argue with.

[popper]

Market is pretty much run by big banks and Gov. Now they are going to cash so they can buy when the market is down. Retail market is pretty much doing the same. Inflation caused by the big swamp spending. Gov investment in 'green'. Annuities are basic life insurance co run and when they go broke, you loose. Cheap credit (low int rate) is going to hurt a lot of companies, leveraged too much. 40% debt is too much to sustain, as Target is finding out. Nobody wants to buy back the 0.2% money the Fed is holding, mortgage rate is now 5%, so Fed just increases int rate hoping to solve the problem. Home building stops (but not apartments) as home prices are high (for now) but will fall drastically when there are NO buyers. Same with guns.
Avg. gain through retail 'market' investment is about 2% max. Still losing due to inflation the gov wants at 2%. Actual now is more like 18%. And going UP.
Edit: I am not any part of the financial business and offer NO advice.
Fed problem is they bought a lot of cheap INTEREST paper. The QT they talk of so far is just letting go existing MATURING bonds (they bought). With increased yield on Gov. bonds and corporate bonds, NOBODY wants to buy the cheap return stuff! So the 3T$ will only get reduced to 2T%. Only other thing they can do (will do) is increase interest rate. To us retail goods buyers who are reducing our purchases, not too much effect. Corporate won't borrow much so business expansion is LIMITED!. GDP decreases. EU is having the same problem.
Biggest investing mistake I made was dumping the 20 or so '12$ profit sharing' shares of TI about 40 yrs ago.

[Shawlerbrook]

Smart money is spread out in a diversified portfolio.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I was in the stock market for over twenty years and found three stocks that never failed, Johnson & Johnson, Newmont mining and Verizon. Others, not so good.

[lightman]

I've been in the market in one form or another since 1980. I've been through some scary lows and rode them to some scary highs. My strategy is to buy and hold, and mostly in index funds. Most of us can only guess about what they will do but history shows that evertime they have fallen they have come back. Remember, you don't loose anything in down markets unless you panic and sell out. It helps that I have a pension and SS.

[Big Tom]

Guns as an investment make a whole lot of sense to me - that is how I justify every purchase with my wife :-) For a financially sound retirement, I am sure there are better options.

[kerplode]

I've been in the market in one form or another since 1980. I've been through some scary lows and rode them to some scary highs. My strategy is to buy and hold, and mostly in index funds. Most of us can only guess about what they will do but history shows that evertime they have fallen they have come back. Remember, you don't loose anything in down markets unless you panic and sell out. It helps that I have a pension and SS.

That's an excellent strategy and a proven wealth generator. Nice work!

[MT Gianni]

I was in the stock market for over twenty years and found three stocks that never failed, Johnson & Johnson, Newmont mining and Verizon. Others, not so good.

In Montana in the late 90's I had many people tell me that they did well investing in the Anaconda Mining Company, Montana Power Company and Garret Freight lines, all Montana run companies. The Montana Power Company was the last of these to fail [buyer later filed for bankruptcy] though they all did. You need a balanced portfolio that is reviewed regularly. I had no part of Amazon as my advisor thought it was overpriced. I was into the UPS and Fed-Ex when Amazon used mostly that delivery prior to going to Prime trucks. Find out not only what is in constant use but what supports that industry.
I had and still have a lot of interest in buildings that are basically computers, cloud storage centers. With an aging population health care is generally a good investment but needs a watchful eye as does all your money. I can live with a downturn for a while, I averaged 11%-15% returns for the previous 8 years. That is tough to do with guns.

[johnho]

I've been through these so many times it's comical. Same comments all the time. My first "crash" was Oct 87. Panic. Some time later there was another one, too old to remember the year, and sold out at near the bottom. Who knew where the bottom was, nobody. By the time I decided to get back in the market had rallied way beyond where I sold. Big losses. This is not a short term game to play, and I look at it as a game. Market does up, market goes down. Always has, always will. name one time when it went to ZERO and stayed there. Enjoy the rides, builds character.

[bangerjim]

Just invest in fixed indexed annuities from a certified fiduciary advisor and you will be safe during the "up and down" cycles. I have never lost a dime. Even today, with the markets cratering, my large nest egg is still worth what it was 2 weeks ago, or whenever the markets went up the last time.

[Horn Ridge]

Well with the government determined retirement age creeping up all the time, find something you halfway enjoy doing and plan on doing it for a long time. Invest in whatever floats your boat. It’s your money and you’ve had to earn it.

[MarkP]

I was in the stock market for over twenty years and found three stocks that never failed, Johnson & Johnson, Newmont mining and Verizon. Others, not so good.

J&J had a neat calculator in their investor relations section of the J&J website; you could do what if's such as buy certain number of shares or a certain dollar amount on a particular date and look at what the current value would be. You click to reinvest dividends of not.

Never underestimate the power of dividend reinvestment.

[popper]

I get a chuckle out of forward P/E.

[snowwolfe]

Anything can be worth any amount on paper. But just because item X is worth $50 doesn’t mean you can easily sell it for $50.
Remember Beanie babies? Cabbage patch dolls? And now RV’s and campers are in the toilet. Fortunes were made in bitcoin, now it’s worth half its high.

[Four-Sixty]

I'll try something fun. I'll share how I've lost money on stocks.

I've worked jobs since I was 12. A Uncle started me on a Direct Reinvestment Plan. I added money to it and lost over four grand when PG&E got caught polluting the environment, making people sick.

I started another stock plan in Regions Bank due to the high dividend they had. The financial crisis happened in 2008 and I lost a couple grand on that.

I used to 'trade' amongst funds in my 401k. One of the Asian crisis happened and stopped that - realizing a loss of several grand.

My point is, contrary to what you see about rosy investing claims people do loose money in the market, LOL!

[BrassMagnet]

The stock market IS a much better investment than firearms UNLESS one collects only VERY HIGH END specimens in which case they (most likely) have accumulated wealth.

The stock market has been tanking very badly lately! More to come! When the market crashes most stock market investors will sell anything that can sell so they can continue to play with stock. All assets crash then, some worse than others.

[farmbif]

im still waiting for AIG to go back down to 75 cents a share, then it will be time to buy

[bangerjim]

Even with the horrible dives the markets have been taking the past 15 days, the vast huge part my investment nest egg in fixed indexed annuities has not gone down 10¢. And I can access many thousands of $$ tomorrow if I need it. Only way to go. Not guns, not ammo, not primers, not lead!

The wife has lost in the high 4 digits with her "play money" in the markets recently, but she only looses if she sells while down! It keeps her busy and out of my hair!!!! Worth every penny.

[imashooter2]

They say a 20% correction is a once in 20 years event. I have been through at least 5 of them over the last 30 years. I wish I could crush the odds in Vegas like that.

[bangerjim]

The stock market is no place to try to MAKE money today. All you can do is buy something you have been watching (that pays dividends), buy it and hope it does not continue the downward spiral we see even today after the FED raised interest rates 750 BP.

I have lost money in the markets in the past. Ever hear of a little company called ENRON? Well, we lost about $90,000 when it went belly up overnight years ago. Can't cry in your spilled beer. We just moved on with our many other investments and have more than recovered today.

But ENRON is a perfect example of how you have NO control over companies taking a dive outside the market trends and loosing lots of money. And it still happens......occasionally. That's why you need a W_I_D_E investment portfolio of stocks, bonds, and fixed indexed annuities.

Never keep a company 401K if you are retired! Or if you can move a portion of the funds you have in there out, if still employed there! A 401K is a federal government-run fund and when was the last time you did well when someone told you..........."Hello, I am from the Federal Government and I am here to help you."

[MT Gianni]

I lost $125,000 when my employer went into other options and their stock price dropped from $80 to $0.15. We could remove our matching funds until the price was less than $7. 401K programs are government authorized for tax purposes but not Gvmt run. Fidelity has managed mine since the 80's when the funds were authorized.

[popper]

https://sensingonline.blogspot.com/2022/06/get-ready-for-catastrophic-def-shortage.html
Very interesting, must read.
Another funny one.
https://sensingonline.blogspot.com/2022/03/biden-begs-texas-to-secede.html Read the bottom line!