Shot Shells for 45 ACP

[challenger_i]

Ok, I will readily admit this is a fishing expedition. :)

Who out there is building their own 45 ACP shot shells, using the cut-down 308 Winchester case?
Pain in the neck, ain't it?
While researching the 45 Turkish cartridge for the Providence Tool Martini rifle (whole different subject!),
I ran across an outfit selling trimmed and sized 45acp M15 brass, made from 308 cases. Thought it was
interesting, until I saw their pricing. Nearly choked!

Ok, here's my pitch:

What would you prospective 45 ACP shotshell loaders think would be a decent price for formed shotshell
cases? I am tooled-up and ready to make said brass, and I am NOT using 308 brass. I have loaded the
stated cases, with #8 1/2 and #12 shot, and they work excellent. The finished product is indistinguishable from a commercially available product, other than one is brass, and the other aluminum.

The floor is open....

[BK7saum]

I have made my own on a few occasions. An afternoon spent forming brass resulted in enough cases/cartridges to last me at least a couple of years. I know there are commercial dies available, but 45acp sizer, 41 mag seater or sizer and cut to length, use a 44 mag RN seater plug to roll crimp either a card or gas check and your good to go.

For me, because I can form them and load them myself out of free range pickup brass and my available dies, it would have to be a quarter or less per case for me to be interested.

One plus when loading yourself, you can prime, seat, and add your overpowder wad before you form the shoulder and neck.

For someone that doesn’t have the extra dies, their price point could/would be higher. For me, there is no interest in paying any more than a quarter a piece. I can make them for free and enjoy the process of being able to do it myself. Just my experiences on the subject.

The shot cartridges I loaded using 9 and 12 shot would cycle my Kimber reliably. Patterns were decent, also.

For someone that just wants to take the easy route, $1.00 per case might be the price point. They are reusable so 25 cases could last quite a while.

[challenger_i]

Your loading method, and mine, are the same. Works like a charm, and do not have to fork-over a week's pay for a special set of dies!
A buck a round sound's way better than the $80 per 25 I saw advertised! :)

Have you tried #4 shot, in any of your loads? I saw reference to using #4 in 45 shot shells for rabbit work.

[nicholst55]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?185253-Making-45acp-shotshells-(My-Way)

[BK7saum]

No, I haven't tried 4s. Biggest i would try would probably be 6s. For snakes and varmits, the smaller shot with better patterns is all I have looked for.

[Outpost75]

I tried the CCI "Big 4" shotshells in .357, and while the shot would penetrate through 3/8" plywood at 15 ft., patterns were so thin as to be completely useless. A .45 ACP holds a similar shot payload to the .357. The .44 Magnum and .45 Colt carry more shot have some potential if you are close, around 10 feet, but beyond that there aren't enough pellets in the pattern to be effective.

300982300983300985300984300986

[Electrod47]

I am a big fan of Pistol Shot Shell, ever since the T/C came out with the Hot Shot. Wanted one desperately, but never had the funds when they were readily available. So I bought the speer capsules for .38/.357 and satisfied myself for awhile. Even in their heyday availability was spotty. I was economical by choice and circumstance so I looked to my favorite in-print Mentor at the time Maj. George Nonte. Tons of idea's and used all of them. Including some considered questionable today. I lurked here for several years before joining another several years ago. All for the Pistol Shot Shell gab. Some of the .45 ACP shot shell production by members of this forum is ( to me ) simply amazing! and perfect!
Unfortunately, for me a little costly. So please view the following suggestion as something a at the time 65 yr/old 10 years ago came up with ro have a snake load ready from my Colt Government while on summer Safari on the deer lease near Sweetwater Texas.
Putting my Maj. Nonte hat on working with items already in my tool box, I took once fired .45 acp shell and sized it. Then (well lubed) I ran it as far as it would go into a .44 special sizing die. Then, using a CCI .44 shot cup filled with #12 shot Its seated over 3.5 grains Bullseye. I then use a .44 taper die gently to snug up the shot cup. Sometimes a dab of glue.
It looks like a monstrosity. Fed single shot into the action, magazine loaded with regular hard ball to back it up. But, the rattler is fairly shredded. It always cycled the action and ejects normally. About as low cost as you can get.

[Texas by God]

Thanks, Outpost75 for the test results. That confirms my suspicion about larger shot. If I need bigger than #9 shot in my revolvers- I'll switch to my 18" .410 single shot and it's superior performance- compared to a handgun.
Challenger- what brass are you using in lieu of .308?

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[Outpost75]

As FYI here are typical patterns for CCI and handloaded handgun shot tested in common "snake gun"calibers. Click on the picture to display full size, so you can read the notes written on the targets. D1C repair center is 11 inches square with 4" inner ring and 8 inch outer ring:

30103030103130103730103230103330103430103530103630 1038

Fine shot is best. For sure snake killing distance 5-6 feet is best. Beyond 10 feet is iffy.

[Char-Gar]

I have to confess, I just get the whole handgun shotshell thing. If you are close enough for a handgun shotshell to be effect, you are close enough to put a bullet just where you want it with great precision.

I have been tramping around in snake country for a very long time and never wished I had shotshells in my handgun.

[johniv]

I’ve spent some time in the woods in snake season too. If you see a snake leave it alone, and you are safe. If you don’t see it and step on/ touch it, you get snake bit. As far as carrying a gun for “protection “, you may as well carry a rabbits foot.

[45workhorse]

There is someone on flea bay that sells a 3d printed cut off jig for the harbor freight mini saw. It cuts .308 down to length. If you need a bunch cut.
(Moderators if I messed up please delete)

I always thought it would be a good idea for law enforcement. Don't have to use a 'duty' round. We get calls a few times a year to remove snakes, I have always pinned the head, picked them up and drove them down the road, and re-homed them in another section of woods. Non poisonous snakes only. Have never gotten a call for poisonous snake.
Other Deputies would either not go to the call or kill whatever type of snake it was.

[Texas by God]

The shot loads with #12 won’t go through the chicken coop wall like real bullets will. As a kid, the .22 version was called Rat Shot by everyone. A feed room at night with flashlights and pistols was fun stuff!

[jmorris]

I don’t go through a lot of them and the last ones I bought here were already ready to go.

However, if I did use a bunch of them, I would probably build something like my .223 to 300blk case cutter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNXz97yWp2w&t=8s

It makes them way faster than you can load them.

[GR8GIFT]

I use Winchester .45 Magnum brass. Works great no need to trim them before forming. I use the RCBS custom .45 shotshell forming and reloading die sets. However when I bought them in the 80's they weren't made of gold. You might check huntington site for the current cost.

[challenger_i]

TBG: In answer to your question, 45 Winchester Magnum cases. They are an RCH shorter than the "Trim-To" length called out for the cut 308 cases, yet they have thinner case walls so more shot capacity.

[Charlie Horse]

I bought a 10 pack? of loaded 45 acp shotshells several decades ago and never fired a one. They have lived in an ammo can of odds and ends for years. They have aluminum cases and a clear blue wad over the shot.

[Finster101]

I don’t go through a lot of them and the last ones I bought here were already ready to go.

However, if I did use a bunch of them, I would probably build something like my .223 to 300blk case cutter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNXz97yWp2w&t=8s

It makes them way faster than you can load them.

You have the coolest toys!

[challenger_i]

"He who dies with the most toys WINS!" :)

[barnetmill]

I’ve spent some time in the woods in snake season too. If you see a snake leave it alone, and you are safe. If you don’t see it and step on/ touch it, you get snake bit. As far as carrying a gun for “protection “, you may as well carry a rabbits foot.

If I am in the woods or somewhere, I would leave a venomous snake alone. If it is near my house for my personal safety it dies ASAP. Much too easy to step on one or put your hand somewhere to pick something up and get bitten. I am especially careful when picking up the dogs' water bowl.
I last killed a water moccasin that was three feet from me when hanging up cloths. Only had my house 9mm on me and not the .38 with shot in my pocket. I shot its head off.
A snake bite can easily cost 75 k to treat.

[barnetmill]

I have to confess, I just get the whole handgun shotshell thing. If you are close enough for a handgun shotshell to be effect, you are close enough to put a bullet just where you want it with great precision.

I have been tramping around in snake country for a very long time and never wished I had shotshells in my handgun.

In cover a moving snake that is fleeing can be had to hit with a single bullet. I recalled one that got away from me that way. About a month later what I believe from the makings was the same water moccasin I spotted from the tractor moving away. I had a .38 3 inch barrel gun with commercial shotshells; ran the snake down and from maybe 10 feet fired at it to stop it. Got a little closer and put some in the head. And then got really close like a few feet and really peppered the head well.

[Texas by God]

Still working on this occasionally with the brass and wads provided by a generous member here(Thanks!)
I modified a home built .375" sizer to roll the case mouth over. I used .410 card wads over the powder and shot.
Ten feet with #9 shot- decent pattern but not enough to eject the brass or lock the slide back.
More work to do.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220714/cd04b29c4e6d5d14ce9d2161e28e5699.jpg

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[barnetmill]

Just five minutes ago I shot a water moccasin. Commercial speer shot cartridge in .38 cal 3 inch barrel gun

Been raining hard for days now in northwest Florida and that makes the snakes start moving. I was looking for a chain saw and out of the high uncut grass it started moving and ran into a large plastic pot. Got the gun to within 5-7 feet of it fired where I thought its head was and hurt it badly and got the gun within 3 feet and fired where I thought its head was and ripped open the abdomen with fluids and visceral leaving. Still not dead. I did not want to fire anymore because of the neighbors. Got a long piece of molding and fished it out of the large planting pot that now had two 3 inch holes in. Tried to smash the snakes head, but the ground was too soft. Took the stick and carried to the fence next to the flooded creek and tossed it there.
I think the load needs larger shot, but the snake was neutralized anyway. A 45 shot round would be more lethal but a small frame short barrel 38 fits better in my pocket.
302140

[gunther]

About 1970, dump shooting rats was a pressure relief for college kids. The rats required 7 1/2 shot. Not as dense patterns, but good enough with a couple of shots from a 38 or one from a 44. Shorter barrels gave less of a doughnut effect on the pattern. Loads were Bullseye, gas checks, shot, and a gas check over shot wad. Not sure we would have used 9 shot, even if we could have found it.

[besk]

I shoot a 2 or 3 inches behind the head. More shot in the snake including the head.

[Bwana John]

I modified a home built .375" sizer to roll the case mouth over. I used .410 card wads over the powder and shot.
I found the beveled bottom of a 38/357 seating die works well to roll the case mouth over.

I use a 11mm hole punch to create 3 over powder wads, and stack them cardboard/bleach bottle plastic/cardboard.

For the overshot card I use a upside down .375" gas check.

After applying the roll crimp over the gas check I fill the remaining space up with fingernail polish.

feeds, fires, extracts, ejects, and holds open slide when empty using M1911 with 16 lb recoil spring.

I "think" (?) the extra wads, gas check, and nail polish helps build up enough pressure to work the action.

But the "pattern" really sucks at more than ~ 12-15 ft away.

[high standard 40]

Ok, I'll preface this by saying I don't have iron clad data from extensive testing to back this up. I learned about 45ACP shotshells and how to make them many years ago from a mentor of mine. He suggested using a cut down plastic .410 wad. I do know that I get better patterns at greater distances than in the illustrations in this thread. I know that the wad is smaller than .45 and thus reduces the available shot charge space. But it also holds the shot column together better and is also less affected negatively by the rifling. It works for me.

[Bwana John]

Ok, I'll preface this by saying I don't have iron clad data from extensive testing to back this up. I learned about 45ACP shotshells and how to make them many years ago from a mentor of mine. He suggested using a cut down plastic .410 wad. I do know that I get better patterns at greater distances than in the illustrations in this thread. I know that the wad is smaller than .45 and thus reduces the available shot charge space. But it also holds the shot column together better and is also less affected negatively by the rifling. It works for me.

Do you add the powder and 410 wad before you neck down the brass (I use a 41 mag sizing die) to create the artificial case mouth to headspace on and payload compartment?

I can't insert the 410 wad after necking down, the wads diameter is just too large. Do you use wad finger guides?

[high standard 40]

Do you add the powder and 410 wad before you neck down the brass (I use a 41 mag sizing die) to create the artificial case mouth to headspace on and payload compartment?

I can't insert the 410 wad after necking down, the wads diameter is just too large. Do you use wad finger guides?

I fully form the cases first, then primer, powder charge, wad, and shot. If you're using military 308 cases they may have thicker case walls. perhaps flaring the case mouth may help.

[barnetmill]

I shoot a 2 or 3 inches behind the head. More shot in the snake including the head.

More often than not the water moccasins are at least semicoiled and I try to angle the shot so that the body is behind the head and will likely catch some of the shot. I think think I need to go to a 8s or 7.5s number shot. Water moccasins have tough skin.

[HWooldridge]

A Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special is pretty close to perfect with Speer plastic shells filled with #9 shot. The barrel is not long enough to blow holes in the pattern, and I can drop it in a hip pocket without having to walk like a peg leg pirate. Keeps going bang until the cylinder is empty.

I’ve tried #12 pellets and they obviously yield a denser pattern but #9 will shred a snake at any reasonable range.

[Texas by God]

If this baby soda can was a fat snake it would be kaput from six feet away.
I think that I like the manual operation- it makes finding the special brass easy.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220718/c3b4b56a365bb6b2812fb84b0ae5173a.jpg

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

The best part, you can probably still recycle the can for 5 cents!

Sheesh...! I hate poisonous snakes! A generous friend of mine sent me some of the cutdown .308 cases for making snake loads, and I will, but I'm still very much with the .410 idea.

DG

[barnetmill]

During the summer I carry two pistols. One with speer .38 shot rounds in a J frame 38 in my pocket and a 9mm pistol in a bandoleer holster. The revolver for the shot loads and the full size semi-automatic pistol for bigger problems. It is not practical to use one pistol for both tasks. If I had a charter's arm in 44 I would carry that instead of a .38 for snakes since it is more effective.

[jessdigs]

There is a complete set of rcbs 45 shotshell dies on eBay right now. $300 but they don't make them anymore.
Still. I have two sets and I paid $75 for one and around 200 for the other.

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[Alferd Packer]

Try using a .444 marlin case.
In some .45 colt cyls. You can only load every other chamber because the rims interfere when loaded side by each.
But then chuck up the case and peel off a thousandth from the rim till you are clear by holding spinning case against a fine flat file.

[Maine1]

Years ago i got very wound up about being able to make 45 ACP shot loads. I really wanted the RCBS die set...but it was not in the cards, or rather, the paycheck.
Of course, there are other ways such as the aforementioned 41 mag, 44 mag dies with cut 308 brass.
Using the CCI rounds, i was able to go to war with invading camp squirrels without blowing holes in the siding. Handy.