Tree of Heaven

[shaman]

I am in the process of ramping up a DIY black powder hobby. This is a long term project. I just got some black willow cuttings rooted. One of these days, I'll have an endless supply of that stuff. My problem is the interim. Right now, and for at least a few years to come, my main source of charcoal is going to be Ailanthus (AKA Tree of Heaven). It's funny, up until this year, I've been cutting and poisoning this stuff and nearly got it irradicated from the property. Then I found out it produces a superior charcoal. Now I'm praying over a few sprigs that showed up last month.

I'm interested in hearing from the guys who have experience with TOH. Is it better or worse than black willow? Any special hints on processing it?

Let me give you my intended means of processing and see if you have suggestions:

I'll harvest before July 1 from stalks that are 1-2 inches in diameter.
I'll strip bark-- here's where I don't know timing, etc.
I'll let dry until Labor Day and then cut sections to fit the retort, splitting everything so that I have a max thickness of about 1/2 inch.
I'll probably start off with a 1 gal paint can retort and process no more than 16 oz of finished charcoal.
What doesn't get used immediately for BP will be sealed up and stored for rainy days.

My end goal is to create simple riced BP that will feed my smokepoles indefinitely.

[indian joe]

I am in the process of ramping up a DIY black powder hobby. This is a long term project. I just got some black willow cuttings rooted. One of these days, I'll have an endless supply of that stuff. My problem is the interim. Right now, and for at least a few years to come, my main source of charcoal is going to be Ailanthus (AKA Tree of Heaven). It's funny, up until this year, I've been cutting and poisoning this stuff and nearly got it irradicated from the property. Then I found out it produces a superior charcoal. Now I'm praying over a few sprigs that showed up last month.

I'm interested in hearing from the guys who have experience with TOH. Is it better or worse than black willow? Any special hints on processing it?

Let me give you my intended means of processing and see if you have suggestions:

I'll harvest before July 1 from stalks that are 1-2 inches in diameter.
I'll strip bark-- here's where I don't know timing, etc.
I'll let dry until Labor Day and then cut sections to fit the retort, splitting everything so that I have a max thickness of about 1/2 inch.
I'll probably start off with a 1 gal paint can retort and process no more than 16 oz of finished charcoal.
What doesn't get used immediately for BP will be sealed up and stored for rainy days.

My end goal is to create simple riced BP that will feed my smokepoles indefinitely.

You might do better with this Q on the homemade powder thread - several there are using it

[shaman]

Ooops. Thanks!

[Buzz Krumhunger]

“Tree of Heaven” is incorrectly named in my opinion.

[GregLaROCHE]

If the conditions are right, willow grows like weeds.

[MarkP]

I remember reading Silver Maple was used for charcoal.
Several years ago Silver Maples were commonly planted as neighborhood trees here in the treeless plains as fast growing shade trees. Seldom planted now but lots of volunteer trees still popping up from enormous seed production.

[john.k]

See claimed the top Euro powders made from grape vine prunings......anyway,I think the important factor is ash content.....this ideally around 10-11% ,but common woods are around 20%....both willow and tree of heaven are class E invasive weeds here.

[indian joe]

See claimed the top Euro powders made from grape vine prunings......anyway,I think the important factor is ash content.....this ideally around 10-11% ,but common woods are around 20%....both willow and tree of heaven are class E invasive weeds here.

yup and the bureaucratic *****s that put willow on that list should be coralled in a patch of TOH for the remainder of their time on earth - talk about political BS!!!!!!

censor got me there but ya proly got the message starts with A

[Nobade]

I have found TOH to be inferior to Eastern Red Cedar for making gunpowder, and you most certainly do not want to encourage it to grow on your property if you can avoid it.

[shaman]

I don't want to move TOH to the farm. However, I see no problem introducing Black Willow down there next to one of the ponds. The trick is finding something in the interim. I've got TOH growing wild at my house in-town. I've tried for years to poison it, but the birds keep bringing seeds back in. I just laid off poisoning this spring, and I already have some 6-footers growing in the back yard.

However, I also have tons of red cedar and silver maple and wild grape at the farm. This gives me a good feeling. Somewhere in all this, I'll be sure to find a good source of charcoal.

[shaman]

I have found TOH to be inferior to Eastern Red Cedar for making gunpowder, and you most certainly do not want to encourage it to grow on your property if you can avoid it.

The more I read this response, I realize I'm probably trying too hard. Easter Red Cedar is all over the place at my farm.

If you wouldn't mind, could you go through the steps you do to prepare the cuttings? For instance, do you de-bark? If so, how? How long do you let it dry? etc.

[Nobade]

You do want to remove the bark. As for drying, I don't see that it matters all that much other than it takes more fuel to turn it into charcoal if it's fresh. I try to find one that has fallen and is already fairly dry. Otherwise just cut into lengths that fit in your retort, split and large ones so everything is about the same thickness and fairly small, and have at it. Don't overcook it, same as any wood for BP charcoal. As soon as the smoke starts to diminish it's probably done, take it out, plug the hole, and let it cool. Grind and you're there!

[shaman]

Cool. Thanks.

[Bird]

Tree of Heaven......aka Chinese stink tree. I finally eradicated 80% of them from my garden. Little buggers keep growing from the seeds they drop.

[Boz330]

I have found TOH to be inferior to Eastern Red Cedar for making gunpowder, and you most certainly do not want to encourage it to grow on your property if you can avoid it.

Never tried Red Cedar although I have as much of that as TOH on the farm. TOH gave me better velocities than Willow.

Bob

[longcruise]

I read somewhere that Swiss is made with alder.

[barnetmill]

I don't want to move TOH to the farm. However, I see no problem introducing Black Willow down there next to one of the ponds. The trick is finding something in the interim. I've got TOH growing wild at my house in-town. I've tried for years to poison it, but the birds keep bringing seeds back in. I just laid off poisoning this spring, and I already have some 6-footers growing in the back yard.

However, I also have tons of red cedar and silver maple and wild grape at the farm. This gives me a good feeling. Somewhere in all this, I'll be sure to find a good source of charcoal.
While our version of it in the deep south is the Red cedar (Juniperus virginiana) and it is a good useful wood, I cut down everyone that I can legally take down since they are a common host for CAR or cedar apple rust and I grow apple, pear, medlar, mayhaw, and quince trees. The maples are fine. Our most invasive tree is the chinese (tallow) popcorn tree and I have no idea what kind of charcoal they will make.