357 mag handgun load

[DCB]

Getting ready to roll out a couple hundred 357m loads using Hornady 158gr, SWC/Hp Knurled waxed bullets.
BHN is 10 and load will be 12.5grs of 2400. I have never loaded any of these bullets and was wondering if 1000/1100 f/s would cause any problems, like leading?
I shot some of these in my 38spcl. and they were good.
any thoughts greatly appreciated THANKS
Dave

[Thumbcocker]

You can always roll them in liquid alox.

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[tazman]

You can always roll them in liquid alox.

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Good suggestion.

[MT Gianni]

If it is anything like their wadcutters it is too fast and too soft. Shoot it and see but keep your Lewis Lead remover close. You can always call and see what speed the factory recommends.

[dannyd]

May also be to fast for the HP to work.

[DCB]

Thanks good Idea on the alox.
Did not think the HP would be a problem.
Ill test both and see how it goes.
Last resort would be to melt it down and add some linotype to it and powder coat the bullets.
The bullets are tapered from the nose to the base about .003".. didnt like that much either.

[Adam Helmer]

DCB,

I shoot much .357 cast boolits made from WW and dropped from the mould into a bucket of cold water. None of my .357, .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum cast WW quenched boolits, Alox lubed have ever leaded a bore.

Adam

[Texas by God]

I'm using the Speer version of that bullet with 3.5 grs of Red Dot to print to the fixed sights on my M&P .38 4" revolver.
So far so good, no leading.

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[onelight]

If it is anything like their wadcutters it is too fast and too soft. Shoot it and see but keep your Lewis Lead remover close. You can always call and see what speed the factory recommends.

What Gianni said /\ :)

[Soundguy]

I shoot 10bhn thru 38/357 all the time. I even shoot a softer speer swaged bullet in 45 colt. And yes.. those speer got alox and caranaba ( mixed ). lubed.

You can also rooster jacket them.

[Larry Gibson]

If it is anything like their wadcutters it is too fast and too soft. Shoot it and see but keep your Lewis Lead remover close. You can always call and see what speed the factory recommends.

Correct info here.

Suggest 3.5 to 4.5 gr of Bullseye, Red Dot or any other similar burn rate powder.

[243winxb]

Look for Hornady load data for this "cowboy" Hornady 158gr, SWC/Hp Knurled waxed bullets.

Speer runs there lswc in 357 mag over 1000 fps at maximum.

12.5 of 2400, is worth a try. I load same with my cast.

[gnoahhh]

And I'll add that how well said bullets fit the throats is another factor. I would err on the conservative side and follow Mr. Gibson's advice.

[243winxb]

Low pressure 357 magnum loads for 158 gr cast swc. Hodgdon.

HS-6, 700X, CFE pistoi. CFE Pistol gives the highest velocity 1321fps, @ 28,500 PSI, at 6.6grs maximum. Starting is 5.3 grs 18,100 PSI & 1123 fps.


I wish i bought CFE Pistol, instead of Accurate No. 9. Too late now. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/s-w-m28-2-357-magnum-high-pressure-locked-action.905609/
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/primer-protrusion-into-firing-pin-hole.4486/full

Starting load of No 9 blanked the WSPM, pushing primer brass into the firing pin hole (hammer nose M28-2)
Locked up the cylinder.

[reddog81]

Knurled wax bullets sound like soft swaged bullets and probably not 10 BHN. These would be meant for low velocity target loads.

[Captain O]

How about incorporating a gas check?

[DCB]

Thanks. With the bullets being slightly tapered I might be able to get a gas check to work. the base measures about .355.
The bullets BHN is around 10.4 for sure.
The other option is to use some Alox but then I don't know if they will work with my AP bullet feeder and die. I will not know till I try.
I may just cast a batch RN and powder coat.
I have several powders I could use, Just wanted to use 2400
Dave

[243winxb]

Swaged bullets can be harder then you think. Has the BHN been tested?

[RickinTN]

It's not the velocity which is the limiting factor, it's the pressure with cast or swaged bullets.
Rick

[DCB]

Yeh I tested with both my testers and i get 10-11 BHN. The ST machining gives a reading of 10.4 BHN the lee as close as I can read it is about 10BHN..
pressure will be about 28k 12.5grs of 2400. This is out of the new Lyman cast bullet reloading manual. they state the bullets are linotype.
I think I just realized my error. according to the calculator, Lynotype bullets have a BHN of 19

[243winxb]

I been shooting Alliant 2400 from 12.5 to 14 grs with 158 to 164 gr bullets. Never tested BHN. Just thumb nail test. If a thumb nail marks the bullets, alloys to soft.

Plain range scrap or WW with 2" of Rotometals linotype bar added to 10 lb Lee pot.

[DCB]

Thanks my nails are so soft and thin I can not rely on that method.
I think Ill save these bullets for 38spcl. I will try some loaded 357m to about 1000f/s see how the do.
I have a new to me mold coming next week 358477 Lyman 150gr.
Just weighed out a batch To get a BHN of 17 / 18 should work good for the 357

[Soundguy]

Fine for 38's.

[fecmech]

They probably won't lead your barrel, these didn't but this is what they'll look like leaving the barrel. I did this some years back. Max load of 296, (1250 fps) 358429 cast from pure lead, .357 mag. Bullets recovered from snow. Notice they held the rifling just fine. No accuracy due to blown bases. Wee bit of setback from acceleration forces! See this thread post#7
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?411488-too-soft-lead-in-Magnum-revolvers

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I have an MP hp mold that drops at 162 grains. Using 20/1 alloy and simple lube these shot great with 8.6 grains of HS-6. Great medium load and super accurate out of my 6" 686+

[DCB]

Fecmech,,. thanks for the link. It was very informative. the one thing that was mentioned was set back? not sure what that means.
Dave

[fecmech]

The set back I'm talking about is the nose of the bullet setting back. If you click on the picture you will see the crimp and lube groove have narrowed slightly from acceleration in the second row. I can't find the pics but 20/1 lead tin 429421 hp's with a max load of 296 became rnfp's upon leaving the barrel when recovered from snow, that's set back! They did shoot well and I killed woodchucks with them.
PS. If you're talking about the pure lead .357 bullets, they started life as a semi-wadcutter 358429.

[Tazman1602]

I used to shoot those knurled bullets years ago and had fair luck with them as low vel target loads. As I remember when I moved from 38 to 357 rolling them in liquid alox worked well or taking a stick of SPG or Paul Matthews BP lube and rubbing them with a bit worked well OR you could melt them down and cast/size with the mold of your choice.

Art

[Kosh75287]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll go there. Your use of 2400 for milder loads should work at least okay, and it is one of the few "Magnum Pistol Powders" that I would consider for developing "less-than-magnum" performance. That said, I'D be tempted to use almost any medium-fast propellant, like Alliant Unique, Herco, BE-86, Accurate #5, or whatever is similar in the IMR/Hodgdon line-up.
If I use your charge weight and divide 7000 gr./lb. by that number, I come up with ~560 charges per pound of 2400. Similar calculation using 7.7/Unique/158 gr. LSWC as a likely duplicate, gives ~908 charges/lb., which effectively increases your powder supply by ~50%.
In the days of $40/lb. propellants, it may make sense to try something that burns faster (and probably cleaner at those pressures) than 2400, and still delivers the 158 gr. at 1250 f/s performance you seek. If you are in a region where other propellants are still simply unobtainable, or you have several 8 lb. jugs of 2400, then all this goes out the window. The first situation seems to be slowly changing, however, so what I am advocating may be food for thought.

[ubetcha]

Correct info here.

Suggest 3.5 to 4.5 gr of Bullseye, Red Dot or any other similar burn rate powder.

I shoot a Lyman 150gr swc and a Lee 158rnfp with an alloy mix of 2-1 ww-pb. 4.0 grs RD. BAC lube , sized .358 in a Ruger Security Six 4" bbl. I have not
experienced any leading.



Correction. I shoot 4gr RD in 38SP and 4.5grs in .357

[robertbank]

DCB,

I shoot much .357 cast boolits made from WW and dropped from the mould into a bucket of cold water. None of my .357, .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum cast WW quenched boolits, Alox lubed have ever leaded a bore.

Adam

Exactly my experience as well along with 9MM. I size my 38spl..357mag .358 and the 9MM sized .357.

Take Care

Bob

[DCB]

Kosh, good point on the round count. I am looking to shoot up some of the 2400. I have 9# I bought way to much.
I have switched gears on the bullets, I purchased a 150gr SWC 358477. batch of material is monotype and #2 bhn is 17..
Shot some today I had 24 rounds with alox and 24 rounds that were powder coated.
shot some out of a S&W 686 4" and a model 13 the load was 14grs 2400 win mag primers. accuracy was pretty good. I'm going to increase the load .5grs see if they are any better ' the powder coats were most accurate. target was at 20 feet. i will set up the chrono on the next batch

[gwpercle]

I don't know if it matters but the Hornady Reloading Manual shows maximum velocities with these boolits in the 357 Magnun as 950 fps with 4 different powders . 900 fps with 2 different powders and 850 fps with 1 powder .
It seems as if Hornady is not pushing these boolits over 950 fps ... my thoughts are soft alloy and not a lot of lubricant ...
For Cowboy Action Shooting ... possibility Deputy Dawg ... possibility !
Gary

[Hi-Speed]

With the Hornady 158 gr swaged SWCHP I use 5.6 grs Power Pistol in 38 Special +P cases for approximately 950 fps. This load approximates velocity of 6.0 grs Unique behind a Speer 158 gr LSWC using 357 Mag cases. My revolver is 4 5/8 inch Ruger 357 Magnum BH.

[robg]

used to use 11'5 gr of 2400 in my 686 had no leading as long as the boolits weren't to soft.

[243winxb]

Pressure test using mag primers. Mags make higher pressure with 2400? https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?381165-Test-of-Hercules-vs-Alliant-2400-in-the-357-Magnum-with-6-different-primers

Nice work by Larry Gibson.

[Hi-Speed]

Larry “parts seas”. What a castboolit legend! we just dig his posts out here in rural Nevada!!!