30 Super Carry with Hand Loaded Cast Boolits

[shooting on a shoestring]

Standard caveats. Don’t try this at home. It worked in my gun this time. Don’t know if it’ll work in yours.

At this time there is no loading data available for 30 Super Carry. But that doesn’t matter because I used a surplus powder that is not listed loading manuals. It is very close AA#5. It is not BR5. I worked up to a charge of 5.5 grains. The primers looked very much like full throttle 357 loads but not as flat as 220 Swift loads.

I fired factory Federal American Eagle 100 grain FMJ flat points and the Remington 100 grain HST JHP. Measured the outside diameter at the widest point and found them both to be 0.343”. My hand loads all had the same measurement. I interpret that as my loads were not exceeding the ability of the chamber to stand the pressures I generated.

The 2 factory loads both had cartridge over-all lengths of 1.150” and I used the same COL for my loads.

The boolit I used was Accurate 31-117E cast 96% Pb, 2% Sb and 2% Sn, air cooled, aged 1 week, lubed with Felix lube, sized 0.316”.
300429

The gun was S&W Shield EZ. The magazine has a very flat front and sharp corners. It has a fully supported and ramped barrel.
300428

I chronographed all the loads today at 97 degrees F. Yep a hot day in May in Central Texas. 5 shot strings.

The American Eagle 100 grain load gave 1177 fps, sdev 5, hi 1185, lo 1170, es 15 fps.
The Remington 100 grain JHP load gave 1168 fps, sdev 9, hi 1181, lo 1155, es 26 fps.
My final load of 5.5 of a surplus #5 type powder, 117 grain boolit gave 1153 fps, sdev 6, hi 1161, lo 1146, es 15 fps.

Groups…no real data bc I was firing free standing at 20 yards with my shaky hands. Best couple of groups were 3”. A couple went 5”. This does not indicate potential precision of the loads/gun.

I was really surprised the gun would feed the 31-117E boolit. But looking at how the magazine presents the cartridge, it rides pretty high and the square cut feed lips release the back of the cartridge kind of early.
300430

I fired the hand load into a row of 10, 1-gallon water jugs. The first jug was shredded, the second ripped, the third just holed both sides, the fourth caught the boolit. The fifth jug was hit hard enough to pop the sealed top from the jug. The boolit expanded from the 0.304” nose OD to 0.430-0.440”.
300433

The 50k psi pressure 30 Super Carry can run does allow it to punch above its weight.

[cwtebay]

Appreciate the data!!!
I have one sitting in the safe- yet to be fired.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[shooting on a shoestring]

I’ll add that the pistol was better than I expected.

That ugly grip safety hinged at the bottom…actually works great. Doesn’t matter how you grip the pistol either low or high the safety disengages. Much better than the small grip safety on the Springfield XDM/XD series or 1911s.

Also the magazine follower has a tab sticking out on each side about the size of the Glock take down tabs, only much easier to grip. It allows the follower to be easily retracted so you can quite literally drop the rounds into the magazine as easy as dropping them into a revolver cylinder. I used that technique for the first 7-8 rounds then used both the tabs and some thumb pressure from the other hand to slip in the last couple of rounds. It’s very fast to load the magazine. Faster than using an Uplula.

And being hammer fired, the trigger is much better than a striker fired gun. Not K-Frame SA good, but better than New Model Blackhawks come from Ruger.

I was unfair to the gun and disliked it when I first saw it. I assumed incorrectly it was striker fired. And passed on buying or even handling it for a couple of months. But when I did finally handle one and saw it had an internal hammer, and the trigger was good, I bought it. As I was shooting it the first time it became apparent the little gun has good points that are not being advertised or “sold”.

[shooting on a shoestring]

As to the 30 Super Carry cartridge, I’m a fan! It’s as good as I had hoped it would be. The case capacity is getting up close to Smith and Wesson Long. Coupled with that available 50k psi, the cartridge rocks. Especially for a 32 caliber reciprocator.

I notice though the ammo is drying up fast in my neck of the woods. Several gun shops got the ammo before the guns showed up. Now the guns are available but the ammo is not. And no one in my circle is predicting bulk brass being available, including me. I’ll try to be optimistic and hope that’ll change in the future. But I’ll buy every piece of brass I can find, loaded or not trying to hedge against this cartridge being a commercial flop.

[dtknowles]

How is this different and better than this century old cartridge?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9720mm_Longue

[Kosh75287]

How is this different and better than this century old cartridge?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9720mm_Longue

Well. let's see... Half-again the bullet weight at slightly more velocity? New pistols in production, vs. relics and souvenirs on which dubious if any maintenance has been performed or is now POSSIBLE? A non-French engineered pistol with some thought behind its construction and layout (anyone here ever owned or worked on a Renault?)? Everyone who owned their MAS 36s, y'all really love those, right?
Just thinking aloud, here...

[shooting on a shoestring]

“How is this different and better than this century old cartridge?”

I agree with Kosh. Availability. My LGS had the above 30 Super Carry pistol in stock and the ability to order more. Brass is available by easily converting factory loaded ammunition into empty brass. An enjoyable process.

30 Super Carry has one huge selling point. It’s a 50,000 psi pistol cartridge! And due to modern materials and pistol design that 50,000 psi pistol cartridge can be had off the shelf in a polymer framed pistol suitable for carry.

But really, 30 Super Carry is not required to be better than whatever cartridge. I like 32 caliber pistols. I think they’re cool. I’m a fan of all the 32 cartridges. If I had a pistol (or Pedersen device) in 7.65x20 Long you bet I’d be figuring out how to load and shoot it.

If you or anyone wants to post about their reloading results with cast boolits in 7.65x20 Long, please post here. That sounds interesting to me.

[dtknowles]

Well. let's see... Half-again the bullet weight at slightly more velocity? New pistols in production, vs. relics and souvenirs on which dubious if any maintenance has been performed or is now POSSIBLE? A non-French engineered pistol with some thought behind its construction and layout (anyone here ever owned or worked on a Renault?)? Everyone who owned their MAS 36s, y'all really love those, right?
Just thinking aloud, here...

You might rethink your comments about the design.

"Petter's design impressed the Swiss company Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (now known as SIG Sauer); in 1937, they purchased a license from SACM in order to produce their model 47/8 handgun, which became the SIG Sauer P210."

I seems the 30 Super Carry is just a +P (or magnum) version of the 7.65x20 with 30 Luger Ballistics.

Enjoy your new toy. If I was buying an S&W Shield I would choose 9mm.

[ebb]

I think I am going to wait a while to make a decision about the 30 carry. Right now it seems like the answer to a question that was never asked but all that may change with time. Most of the new cartridges are developed to stimulate sales. I thought that the short mags were a waste of time because I already had several magnum rifles, and they were to me cause they offered no more performance than what I had. But if i had no magnum rifles they would be my choice. And the 6.5 Creedmoor, it brought nothing to the table that my Remington 260s didn't already do. I have come to realize that they are making rifles for younger people that don't have a safe full. I am not all that impressed with a 9mm, maybe others aren't either. maybe the others will be impressed with the 30 carry, I am willing to keep an opened mind. BUT would one of you please explain what they had in mind when the made the 5.7-28 I am still trying to figure that one out.

[MarkP]

4.6 x 30 mm & 5.7 x 28 mm to pierce body armor.

[GooseGestapo]

Thanks SOASS. I recently posted a similar thread on my .30 SC.

I found mine to be of superior fit and accuracy.
Cast bullet performance is very good. I have simply been too busy to follow up with additional powders, and primers.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for sharing. I’ve yet to experience the 30SC however, I likely will. Then I can give a report on how hard it’s brass is to find in the grass compared to others.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I managed to empty another handful of factory brass…and catch them.
Found the best brass catcher I have is a Ford pickup with a camper shell. I flipped up the canopy door, stood by the tailgate and the pistol pitched them all in the bed. Didn’t lose any brass. Wished I’d thought of that years ago!

[shooting on a shoestring]

The AA5 type powder left a little space under the boolit. It worked successfully in my view. But I’m considering working up a load with canister AA#7. I’m thinking I might get enough more of the slower powder to boost velocity a bit. Might be a wash. One way to find out…

[mnewcomb59]

That wadcutter mushroom is very impressive and penetrates to upper FBI specs. I wouldn't hesitate to carry that if they still mushroom similar in a few weeks. My 2-2-96 age hardens for at least a month so I bet you get 40 cal and 5 jugs after a few more weeks.

That is more deadly than most 38 special with that huge flat front and that amount of penetration. Maybe a soft, solid, full charge wadcutter at 900 fps that mushrooms to 45 cal would give it a run for its money in penetration and expanded diameter. That probably penetrates almost 50% more than a 158 SWC HP, which is borderline barely passing FBI minimum penetration.

[Bazoo]

I’m impressed that it fed that nose profile. I pretty cool.

[pettypace]

I fired the hand load into a row of 10, 1-gallon water jugs. The first jug was shredded, the second ripped, the third just holed both sides, the fourth caught the boolit. The fifth jug was hit hard enough to pop the sealed top from the jug. The boolit expanded from the 0.304” nose OD to 0.430-0.440”.
300433

The 50k psi pressure 30 Super Carry can run does allow it to punch above its weight.

Treating that expanded bullet as a wadcutter, the VIRGEL app predicts this:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/VIRGEL_WC_44_117_1150.png

[pettypace]

That wadcutter mushroom is very impressive and penetrates to upper FBI specs. I wouldn't hesitate to carry that if they still mushroom similar in a few weeks. My 2-2-96 age hardens for at least a month so I bet you get 40 cal and 5 jugs after a few more weeks.

That is more deadly than most 38 special with that huge flat front and that amount of penetration. Maybe a soft, solid, full charge wadcutter at 900 fps that mushrooms to 45 cal would give it a run for its money in penetration and expanded diameter. That probably penetrates almost 50% more than a 158 SWC HP, which is borderline barely passing FBI minimum penetration.

Yes! That's certainly an impressive "wadcutter mushroom." But it's still a flat-nosed wadcutter and that limits its penetration which, in turn, limits its wound mass. (See VIRGEL screen shot in previous post.)

But if that 117 grain bullet at 1150 f/s could be persuaded to assume the classic mushroom shape (with a gently rounded convex nose) and an expanded diameter of about 0.47", the mathematical models (of MacPherson and/or Schwartz) suggest a significant gain in both penetration and wound mass:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/VIRGEL_MSH_47_117_1150.png

I'd like to see what penetration and expansion shooting on a shoestring's hand loads would produce with a shallow, saucer-shaped depression in the nose of that 117 grain wadcutter.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Hmmmm?
I’ve got a drill press….
Planning on heading to the range tomorrow to chronograph some loads with AA#7.

Problem is I don’t have any empty brass…tonight. Sounds like an interesting use of my upcoming empties.

[Earlwb]

Nice going with your reloading of the 30SC. I like it. Thanks for sharing.
I have one but I haven't gotten around to try reloading for it yet. I am hoping others come up with some load data for it first. You seem to be the first one too. So my hat is off to you for doing it.
I still need to figure out something for the bullets yet, as they aren't making any for reloading the .30SC yet.

[elmacgyver0]

You know? I can't think of a cartridge I hate, just don't need another one to reload.
This cartridge to me sounds like a .40 S& W only in .30 carbine.
Hey, nothing wrong with that.
7.65 French Long? I bet it is pretty close.
I wonder if the new 30 super would work in the old French pistols?
I haven't researched anything, just musing.
Just the same old BS I'm renowned for.

[Earlwb]

You know? I can't think of a cartridge I hate, just don't need another one to reload.
This cartridge to me sounds like a .40 S& W only in .30 carbine.
Hey, nothing wrong with that.
7.65 French Long? I bet it is pretty close.
I wonder if the new 30 super would work in the old French pistols?
I haven't researched anything, just musing.
Just the same old BS I'm renowned for.

Well the first problem is that the 30 SC has 50,000 psi chamber pressure. The 7.65 French Long isn't loaded to that kind of chamber pressures. You run the risk of blowing the old guns up.

The 7,65 Longue was loaded with 77 grain or 80 grain bullets and had muzzle velocities around 1160 fps. But although those velocities are close to the 30SC, the 30 SC is loaded with 100 grain or 110 grain or 115 grain bullets. The 30SC runs around 1250 fps with the 100 grain bullets and 1150 with the 115 grain bullets.

But it sure looks like one could use the brass cases and reload those for the 7.65 Longue. That is what a number of folks are intending to do. You can use .32 ACP bullets. Plus if you have a .30 Pederson device, you could reload the cases to use in the conversions too. Now you could pull the bullets and pour out the propellant then reload and reuse the bullets with a different propellant for using in the 7.65 Longue.

But definitely you do not want to fire the super hot loaded 30 SC in a old 7.65 Longue handgun or Perderson device. You run the risk of it blowing up in your face.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I did get a chance to empty my brass and get some more chronograph data.

I worked up A little farther with my AA#5 type powder and got to 6.0 grains with the 117 wadcutter. Velocity average was 1219 fps at 90 degrees F. That 1219 had a standard deviation of 6. Extreme spread 1323-1210=13. The case did show 0.001” expansion over previous firings so I’m stopping here and calling this my max load for my boolit in my gun.

Using the same boolit but with canister AA#7, I worked up to 7.5 grains and hit the 0.001” case expansion over previous readings. So this is my max for AA#7. The charge filled the case to the boolit base and may have had a tiny bit of compression. Velocity average was 1283, sdev 15, es 1295-1261=34fps.

I also made a first try with another boolit. I used Accurate 31-070C. I used a COL of 1.090”. 6.0 grains of my AA5 type powder gave velocity of 1297fps, sdev 16, es 1318-1279=39 fps. No case expansion over previous readings. This little light weight boolit has some more room to run in velocity.

Now I have some empty cases and I’ll try to get some loaded soon, drill some hollow points, or cup points as PettyPace suggested.

[mnewcomb59]

Before I had HP molds I made a quick and dirty hollow point jig to use with a pocket knife.

You drill a hole slightly bigger than your case in a half inch thick piece of wood (mine is 1.5x12" but not super critical) 11/32 would probably work for the 30 cal.

This hole holds your loaded round upright. Your right forearm rests on the block of wood so it can't tip and you hold a knife centered on the meplat. Your left hand rotates the loaded round like a lathe. I did a few without the jig and the round tipped and I stabbeb my table. Thankfully not my finger. I made hundreds of HP like this and it is easy to be consistent.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ok I have some of the 117 gr wadcutters loaded over 5.7 gr of my AA5 type powder.
I used a little jig in my drill press to hollow point or cup point a few.
I’ve used this sort of jig with good success before.
In this case it’s an 11/32” hole drilled through a board. Then I saw through the board to intersect the hole and leave a semi-circle. I use thumb pressure to hole the loaded round in the semi-circle.
300945

And I’ve used 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4” bits to make some hollow points approximately 1/8” deep. Although on the 1/4” I just drilled until the bit made a full diameter cut and stopped. The result is a wide cup point.
300946

I have 6 loads each of 1/8”, 3/16”, 1/4” and flat unmodified. I’ll use 5 for chronographing and 1 for water jugs.
Not sure if I’ll get to run them this weekend, but soon as I do I’ll post up.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Mnewcomb59, I like the way you think. I really appreciate your ability to make it work with what you got. Hollow points by pocket knife is the result of thinking, trying and doing. That’s real American ingenuity in action.

[mnewcomb59]

If you are only doing a few it is probably quicker than setting up the drill press. Also you can visually center the HP when you do it by hand. Sometimes I have had them off-center when using a drill press jig. Glad you liked the idea!

[GooseGestapo]

SOSS; be real careful with those loads you’re using. (Aa#5 & #7).

Using 90,93, and 100gr bullets @.311” and .314”, I was running into cratered primers at 5.6gr #5 and 6.6gr of #7. My velocities are running a bit lower too.
You didn’t state what diameter your wadcutters were. Maybe .314” ???

My gun did feed and fire the one NOE 89gr wadcutter, but I seated it out to a longer OAL.

re: 7.5 French; aka 7.5x20:
No, you can’t fire the .30SC in the 7.5. Too long (21mm vs 20mm).
Yes, you “might” can fire the 7.5 in the .30SC, but it likely won’t cycle the action.

The .30SC (in my Sheild EZ) needed approximately 90% of max to eject, cock, and feed the next round without a stovepipe jam. Approximately 1,100fps with a Lee 93gr .311” RN @ .314” (modified molds).
A .32acp w/78gr RN wouldn’t unlock the action... Don’t ask how I know!!! Had to be hand fed and hand cleared...
Ammo -Federal (100gr FMJ) is down to 42cents, 7.5x20 brass is .27cents from Starline. I’ll just source brass from loaded ammo...

[shooting on a shoestring]

Goose, I sized at 0.316”. Yep really. 0.316”. I got the mold for 327 and 32-20 revolvers that have throats at 0.315”. I was totally surprised they work so well in the 30 Super Carry.

Now the 30SC is at 50,000 psi cartridge. 50k psi will flatten, flow, crater and ooze small pistol primers. I doubt I’ve hit the full 50k yet, but I’m thinking I’ve gone well past 40k.

The brass is holding up, so when I get back to working loads for it I may switch from S&B small pistol primers to Rem 5&1/2’s. And I may work with small rifle primers.

I view the 30SC as a cartridge to run at high pressure and high performance. Otherwise, I’d shoot 32acp…which I have a couple of and enjoy.

[GooseGestapo]

SOSS
I’m with you! I’m loading to light cratering with Fiocchi primers. Got a bunch at a real good price. Saving my Federal and Winchester for my revolvers. The Fiocchi seem a bit soft.

I too use CCI Small Rifle Primers in full power .327Mag. It’s such a serious over performer! I load the Hornady 100gr XTP and Lee 113gr RFNGC warm, but not to point of cases sticking! Mostly #2400 with the cast and H110 with the jacketed.

Keep up posting on the .30SC!

Despite the naysayers, I feel going forward it’ll pick up steam if enough manufacturers make compact guns for it.
I don’t see it replacing the 9mmPara, but new sales of the .32acp and .380 are in peril. Especially if cost of ammo continues to drop.
Wow! I remember when they were saying the same things about the 9mm vs .357mag.

[Kuduking]

Excellent information! I note that factory bullets are 0.313". Factory fired brass (Remington 100 JHP, Federal 100 FMJ and 100 HST) from my Shield EZ is fairly well flattened, and slightly craters about 50% of the time. Don't know exactly what primer is being used in those loads.

I also was skeptical of this cartridge when introduced, but the pistol/cartridge combination does offer the benefits of lighter recoil, higher capacity and roughly equivalent power to a similar 9mm pistol. The pistol has some good points: flat, good trigger, lightweight, good capacity and easy to operate compared to striker fired guns.

However, a couple of caveats concerned me recently. I originally obtained one with no manual safety, but after reviewing the design of the pistol, I sold it and bought the manual safety version. (Retrofit is not a factory option). There are two passive safety devices on the EZ: the firing pin block and the trigger bar interrupter. In a nutshell, BOTH are controlled by the grip safety. It's been misstated in at least one review of the pistol in a major publication that the trigger disengages the firing pin block - not true. (Typical lazy gun writing shills).

In most pistols that incorporate a passive firing pin block, disengagement is controlled by the trigger action against the trigger bar, which in turn deactivates the firing pin block. Not on the Shield EZ: in the concept of the 1911 Schwartz safety, the grip safety deactivates the firing pin block. Depressing the grip safety engages the trigger bar with the sear, and also deactivates the firing pin block. While this is adequate in regards to the safety of the pistol if dropped - it won't fire - it's problematic in terms of carrying the pistol.

In terms of concealed carry and holstering the pistol, I wasn't comfortable with it. While holstering, the grip safety is being depressed. This is akin to holstering a cocked-and-UNlocked 1911 - it can be done in an emergency but it's not everyday SOP. The trigger pull is relatively light and short, and anything that might come into contact with the trigger has a good chance of firing the pistol - piece of shirttail, top edge of the holster, adjustment cord on a jacket, etc. In a stressful encounter, or even an extended range session, it's possible, and I've seen it happen on the range (with different pistols).

The manual safety version of the Shield EZ disconnects the trigger bar when the thumb safety engaged, so in my view it's safer for carry and holstering. In practical effect, it operates like a 1911, albeit without locking the slide closed. (The EZ thumb safety does not appear to actually block the sear, either.)

Second, an acquaintance recently purchased a 9mm Shield EZ, and after only 75 rounds the breechblock failed. See attached pics. This is not the only instance of this. On a well-known S&W forum an even more catastrophic breechblock failure of a 9mm Shield EZ is shown. The .30 Super Carry and 9mm versions are essentially identical. Both use a MIM "Slide Insert" aka breechblock, pinned into what appears to be a cast slide. I'm not starting a MIM vs. Anything Else debate, but the failure of a major structure of the pistol is nonetheless disconcerting. We're not talking about a little pin or piece with no stress-bearing function.

302663302664

Rant On. S&W continues its race to the bottom with Ruger. Rant Off.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Kuduking, great post!

I get your view of carry with the manual safety on this gun.
My preference was for the no thumb safety model. I agree with what you point out that re-holstering with a grip safety only model does elevate the possibility of an unplanned eruption.

I mitigate that by 2 things. First I find it possible to reposition my grip on the pistol before re-holstering to allow the grip safety to disengage. This is not a sure thing and leaves the door open for Murphy. Second I didn’t buy this reciprocating pistol as a carry piece. I have better built, better handling, safer guns that I have much more confidence in for my carry guns. I bought this S&W EZ because it was the only pistol available for me to play with the cartridge. The $4k Nighthawk was not in my budget to play with.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I feel like I dropped the ball on reporting my hollow point experiment…probably because I did. Ha!

A few things came up and I was not able to do the chronographing at the same time I shot the jugs for penetration. So I went ahead and shot the jugs first but didn’t have my usual measuring tools with me. I lost one of the recovered boolits before I got back home and measured the expanded diameters. Furthermore I mixed up two boolits and couldn’t be sure which loads they came from. So I screwed that up. Going to have to repeat the experiment.

I’ll say that I was not impressed with any of the hollow point wadcutters. There was some difference in the jugs but not enough to make me think it worth the effort to hollow point the boolits. That wadcutter just works!

Also, I shot a control boolit that was age hardened several weeks and it’s expansion was less than the .430” or so inches I got initially, but I didn’t get it measured. Still, it expanded and went into the 5th jug. I’m happy with that.

Hoping I can get back to this in a few weeks.

[mnewcomb59]

I predicted 5 jugs and 40 cal after a few weeks of age hardening. That is probably even better than before because that will get you close to 18" gel penetration. Definitely more juice than a 38 special.

[pettypace]

I predicted 5 jugs and 40 cal after a few weeks of age hardening. That is probably even better than before because that will get you close to 18" gel penetration. Definitely more juice than a 38 special.

That depends on just what you mean by "juice."

A lowly target wadcutter fired from a .38 snubby into bare 10% ordnance gelatin will "rivet" to 0.39" diameter and penetrate to 16". (See, for instance, brassfetcher's test data here (https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/38%20Special/38%20Special%20Ammo%20Selection.html)).

With 10 grains more bullet weight, 150 f/s more velocity, and the right alloy, we should be able to get a .38 wadcutter to "rivet" to 0.40" and penetrate to 18" in bare gelatin without straining a snubby.

So, how would that compare to a 117 grain bullet from a .30 carry that expands to 0.40" and penetrates 18" in bare gelatin?

Here's the .38 from the snubby:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/30_carry_vs_38_snubby_01.png

And here's the .30 carry wadcutter:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/30_carry_vs_38_snubby_02.png

With almost twice the muzzle energy, the .30 carry would likely have an advantage against barriers like windshield glass. But in the absence of barriers I would expect the two rounds, with equal penetration and equal wound mass, to be functionally equivalent.

[rbuck351]

I think I'll stick with 7.62x25 in either my Tok or C52. I think I can get equal or better performance with it.

[shooting on a shoestring]

rbuck351,
Let’s race! Let’s find out.

I looked up the case capacity from wiki for 7.62x25 and see it’s given as 16.8 grains of water.
I just weighed by difference empty and full and found my 30 Super Carry fired brass holds 13.0 grains of water.
So 7.65x25 has 3.8 grains of water more case capacity over 30 SC. Which 3.8/13 times 100 = 29.2% more case capacity than 30 SC.

30 SC has SAAMI pressure limit of 50,000 psi.
7.62x25 has CIP pressure limit of 2500 Bar which is 36,259 psi.
30 SC has 13,741 psi more pressure to work with than 7.62x25.
So 36,259/50,000 times 100 = 72.5%.
7.56x25 has only 72.5% as much pressure to work with.

So it looks to me like 7.65x25 has nearly a 30% advantage in case capacity and 30 Super Carry has nearly a 30% advantage in pressure.

I’m going to guess that’s pretty much a wash. I’ll bet there’s not a discernible difference in real world ballistic performance between the two running flat out. But I’d like to know…

[pettypace]

I think I'll stick with 7.62x25 in either my Tok or C52. I think I can get equal or better performance with it.



rbuck351,
Let’s race! Let’s find out.

I looked up the case capacity from wiki for 7.62x25 and see it’s given as 16.8 grains of water.
I just weighed by difference empty and full and found my 30 Super Carry fired brass holds 13.0 grains of water.
So 7.65x25 has 3.8 grains of water more case capacity over 30 SC. Which 3.8/13 times 100 = 29.2% more case capacity than 30 SC.

30 SC has SAAMI pressure limit of 50,000 psi.
7.62x25 has CIP pressure limit of 2500 Bar which is 36,259 psi.
30 SC has 13,741 psi more pressure to work with than 7.62x25.
So 36,259/50,000 times 100 = 72.5%.
7.56x25 has only 72.5% as much pressure to work with.

So it looks to me like 7.65x25 has nearly a 30% advantage in case capacity and 30 Super Carry has nearly a 30% advantage in pressure.

I’m going to guess that’s pretty much a wash. I’ll bet there’s not a discernible difference in real world ballistic performance between the two running flat out. But I’d like to know…


But what about the bullet? If "real world ballistic performance" includes wound ballistics, the role of the bullet is critical. For example, in his wound profile for the 7.62x39 cartridge (using steel core bullets from an AK-47) Fackler noted:

In most wounds of the abdomen, they caused a small punctate hole much like one would expect from a 25 or 32 ACP FMJ handgun bullet fired at less than 1000 ft/sec., or a single pellet of 00 buckshot. A lot of US servicemen owe their lives to the minimal wounds caused by these bullets. (Wound Ballistic Review, Vol. 5, No. 2, page 37.) (https://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf)

[dtknowles]

rbuck351,
Let’s race! Let’s find out.

I looked up the case capacity from wiki for 7.62x25 and see it’s given as 16.8 grains of water.
I just weighed by difference empty and full and found my 30 Super Carry fired brass holds 13.0 grains of water.
So 7.65x25 has 3.8 grains of water more case capacity over 30 SC. Which 3.8/13 times 100 = 29.2% more case capacity than 30 SC.

30 SC has SAAMI pressure limit of 50,000 psi.
7.62x25 has CIP pressure limit of 2500 Bar which is 36,259 psi.
30 SC has 13,741 psi more pressure to work with than 7.62x25.
So 36,259/50,000 times 100 = 72.5%.
7.56x25 has only 72.5% as much pressure to work with.

So it looks to me like 7.65x25 has nearly a 30% advantage in case capacity and 30 Super Carry has nearly a 30% advantage in pressure.

I’m going to guess that’s pretty much a wash. I’ll bet there’s not a discernible difference in real world ballistic performance between the two running flat out. But I’d like to know…

I am pretty sure the 7.62 x 25 will have more power than the 30 SC but that was not the point of the new guns and cartridge it was to match 9 x 19 performance with the same size gun and have 2 more rounds in the magazine. 7.62 x 25 uses a 90 gr. bullet at 1500 fps vs. the 30 SC a 100 gr. bullet at 1250 fps. I am sure you could get more than 1250 with a 100 gr. bullet from the 7.62 x 25 but the ammo is even larger than 9 x 19 so you sacrifice magazine capacity. The 327 mag. also beats the 30 SC in power with a 115 gr. bullet at 1335 fps from a 3" barrel. How small a pistol do you want to carry and how many rounds do you want it to hold.

TEK

[shooting on a shoestring]

I have no experience with 7.62x25 in either Tok, Mauser or Borchardt.
Just looking at Lyman’s 50th Edition at the 30 Luger data and 7.62 Tokarev/30 Mauser data it looks like the top end in published data is an 85 grain boolit at 1400 fps.

I don’t have an 85 grain 32 caliber mold…yet.
I’m contemplating buying one just to see if I could get it to 1400 in 30 SC.
I’ve got a Accurate 31-070C, 31-088W and I think a 31-105A.

But I could just use the 31-088W and see how fast that one goes. It wouldn’t cost anything but a little loading. I’m pretty sure I have some cast.

As per Pettypace’s point that doesn’t address boolit shape, it only address velocity. But I could do that pretty cheap and maybe in the near future.

I guess the only way to really race them would be for me to buy a 7.62x25 gun, dies and brass. But the Norinco Type 54 and CZ M52 look….ummmm….ugly (Ha! So does the Shield EZ). They seem to be pretty big and heavy too. But I have only seen them in pictures and videos. Might be better in real life. But I haven’t seen any in my usual haunts.

Does anyone know what kind of actions they have? Straight blow back? Tilting barrel? Something else? Are they DA only? What kind of trigger pull do they have? Are they tack drivers or just bullet squirters?

[pettypace]

Does anyone know what kind of actions they have?


Browning

[dtknowles]

I have no experience with 7.62x25 in either Tok, Mauser or Borchardt.
Just looking at Lyman’s 50th Edition at the 30 Luger data and 7.62 Tokarev/30 Mauser data it looks like the top end in published data is an 85 grain boolit at 1400 fps.

I don’t have an 85 grain 32 caliber mold…yet.
I’m contemplating buying one just to see if I could get it to 1400 in 30 SC.
I’ve got a Accurate 31-070C, 31-088W and I think a 31-105A.

But I could just use the 31-088W and see how fast that one goes. It wouldn’t cost anything but a little loading. I’m pretty sure I have some cast.

As per Pettypace’s point that doesn’t address boolit shape, it only address velocity. But I could do that pretty cheap and maybe in the near future.

I guess the only way to really race them would be for me to buy a 7.62x25 gun, dies and brass. But the Norinco Type 54 and CZ M52 look….ummmm….ugly (Ha! So does the Shield EZ). They seem to be pretty big and heavy too. But I have only seen them in pictures and videos. Might be better in real life. But I haven’t seen any in my usual haunts.

Does anyone know what kind of actions they have? Straight blow back? Tilting barrel? Something else? Are they DA only? What kind of trigger pull do they have? Are they tack drivers or just bullet squirters?

The CZ 52 is a cam roller locking action. I think the gun is nice looking. It is not a tack driver but it is better than most military issue sidearms. The action is quite strong. I think it could push any bullet faster than the 30 SC. I have one chambered for 9 x 23 with a heavy recoil spring. It out powers 9mm +P. Yeah, it only holds 8 rounds.

Single action with a thumb safety and exposed hammer. Manual of arms is similar to a 1911 but no grip safety and the safety will safely drop the hammer if selected.

[dverna]

Interesting thread. I am too far down the 9mm path to ever change platforms or calibers. If I did change it would be to the .40 anyway.

[shooting on a shoestring]

DTK, thanks. That little bit helped me be a little bit smarter.
I’ve never heard of a cam roller locking action. Sounds interesting.

9x23 doesn’t need more than 8 rounds…

[shooting on a shoestring]

DV, i can’t argue with your position.

My first center fire reciprocating pistol was a High Power. 9mm of course. That gun showed me that not all reciprocators were evil. It was soon followed by an XD in 40. Then a lot of other calibers got added. The last being 30 Super Carry.

I’m enjoying the 30SC and I consider it a keeper. But I’m not preaching it to be a replacement for 9. And I’d prefer 40 over it or 9 for a one and only gun. But I like 10 better than all 3 of those.

[dtknowles]

DTK, thanks. That little bit helped me be a little bit smarter.
I’ve never heard of a cam roller locking action. Sounds interesting.

9x23 doesn’t need more than 8 rounds…

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=cam+roller+locking+action&view=detail&mid=22A5BB898202A090675822A5BB898202A0906758&FORM=VIRE

[shooting on a shoestring]

DTK,
Thank you Sir!
Very good video.

[Kosh75287]

The CZ 52 is a cam roller locking action. I think the gun is nice looking. It is not a tack driver but it is better than most military issue sidearms. The action is quite strong. I think it could push any bullet faster than the 30 SC. I have one chambered for 9 x 23 with a heavy recoil spring. It out powers 9mm +P. Yeah, it only holds 8 rounds.
Single action with a thumb safety and exposed hammer. Manual of arms is similar to a 1911 but no grip safety and the safety will safely drop the hammer if selected.

The LOCKING action of the Cz52 is quite strong, but there is one area of the chamber, forward of the lugs, where the chamber wall is quite thin. Reloaders can, and have, blow(n) out this thin part, with injudicious loading. Apparently, this failure has occurred in the same place often enough that it is believed by many that the TT-33 pistol is actually the stronger of the two pistols.
Back when Reloadersnest.com was functioning, some brave soul was stoking the 7.62x25 mm with H110, under 90 gr. JHPs, and getting velocities approaching that of the .30 Carbine(!!!). I do not recall the charge weights, but it was one of the few times in which I saw H110 reduced by more than 3% below max with no reported difficulty.
The hammer drop safety will safely drop the hammer if selected, ASSUMING THAT THE PARTS IN THE DECOCKING MECHANISM IS NEW/STILL IN SPEC. Using the hammer drop safety on a pistol in which these parts are moderately worn can result in an unintentional discharge. Ask me how I know.

Beyond this, I DO agree that the 7.62x25 mm can probably out perform the .30 SC, and in less expensive platforms. The .30 SC may beat the 7.62x25 mm in terms of accuracy, but this is a function of a newer platform out-performing an older, more worn one. Things can be done to the CZ52 and the TT-33 to tighten groups.

[dtknowles]

Yeah, agreed. You can check the hammer drop. Just try it without a round in the chamber. The hammer should stop short of the firing pin. Watch a dry fire where you pull the trigger and then watch a hammer drop with the safety, they should be noticeably different.

It should be noted that CZ 52's are market to indicate how many times they have been back to the armory for service and maintence.

This site explains it better that I would.

https://harringtonproducts.com/markings.php

Tim

Tim

[dtknowles]

I have owned three CZ-52's, I sold one (I should have kept it) because I thought it was silly to have three of the same gun. I have 4 barrels for the two I have still, a 9x19, a 9x23 and two 7.62x25 barrels. I have spare firing pins, they do break. I have three different strength wolf recoil springs along with the two stock springs. I have never had a problem with any load functioning with any of the springs but I use the heavy springs with the heavy bullets in 9 mm to reduce the stress on the gun. Beside the "weak" point on the barrel/chamber the rollers and cam do wear and should be lube for longer life along with the heavy springs.

Yes, the Tok might be able to take higher pressures but the CZ can take much higher pressures than any publish loading data or even that from the commy submachine gun ammo.

I don't have to run high pressures to get the 1400 fps with 125 gr. JHPs in my 9 x 23 because I use 9 mm largo brass and load to a longer over all length allowed by the longer magazine. I have almost as much room for powder as a 357 mag.

To understand what a stand out gun this is compare it to a S&W M19. Same ballistics, 4 ounces lighter, single action first shot and every shot, holds three more rounds, is much thinner, holds up better for more full house loads. It is also thinner than a 1911 and lighter as well.

Of course some people prefer the modern triggers and manual of arms on guns like the Shield. That is all about what you train with.

Tim

[shooting on a shoestring]

Kosh, DTK,
Thanks for the posts. Good information.
I can see why the CZ M52 pistol and 7.62x25 have a following.

I really appreciate the S&W Model 19 comparison. I’ve had a Model 19 since I was a kid and I’m very familiar with it. I doubt I’ll see a CZ M52 finished as nicely, and I’ll bet the Model 19 SA trigger is better. While I won’t be giving up my Model 19, I just might have to keep an eye out for an example of the CZ M52. Sounds like a fun gun.

I’m curious though. Does anyone shoot cast boolits in the CZ M52?
Can they feed a boolit with some meplat?

[dtknowles]

The CZ 52 feeds almost anything. It has two things in its favor one with 7.62 x 25 it is a bottle neck round so the whole front of the cartridge is tapered and you can only have so much meplat on a 32. Also since the recoil spring is around the barrel not under it and the barrel only moves front to back not tilting or up and down rounds feed straight into the chamber and don't have to rise much at all. I bet it would feed full wadcutters but I have not tried. I have not had any problems with 60 gr. Gold Dot hollow points. Not really a good self-defence round but those move out at 1700+ fps and will explode varmints. I have also loaded many flat nose and hollow points in the 9 x 23 with no feeding problems. I will try to post pictures of ammo.

I was not putting the M-19 down, it is a very fine gun for what it is. I do prefer my Dan Wesson M-15's but that is a totally different story. I shoot my revolvers a lot more than semi-auto's. You know the brass chasing thing and such.

Tim

[dtknowles]

303180

303181

Tim

[mnewcomb59]

That depends on just what you mean by "juice."

A lowly target wadcutter fired from a .38 snubby into bare 10% ordnance gelatin will "rivet" to 0.39" diameter and penetrate to 16". (See, for instance, brassfetcher's test data here (https://brassfetcher.com/Handguns/38%20Special/38%20Special%20Ammo%20Selection.html)).

With 10 grains more bullet weight, 150 f/s more velocity, and the right alloy, we should be able to get a .38 wadcutter to "rivet" to 0.40" and penetrate to 18" in bare gelatin without straining a snubby.

So, how would that compare to a 117 grain bullet from a .30 carry that expands to 0.40" and penetrates 18" in bare gelatin?

Here's the .38 from the snubby:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/30_carry_vs_38_snubby_01.png

And here's the .30 carry wadcutter:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/30_carry_vs_38_snubby_02.png

With almost twice the muzzle energy, the .30 carry would likely have an advantage against barriers like windshield glass. But in the absence of barriers I would expect the two rounds, with equal penetration and equal wound mass, to be functionally equivalent.

I enjoy your model and its predictions but I have to admit I am confused by a few things. Why does an 18" penetrating bullet not count the whole wound path as defensive wound mass? 18" penetration is not likely to exit. Less than 20% of 18" gel shots will exit humans per FBI data. That data was gathered in the late 80s and American's BMI has gone up significantly since then, making 18" even less likely to exit. I would understand if a bullet penetrated 30" and your model put the big game wound mass at a larger number than the defensive would mass.

Also your model is missing a real world component of damage. Two bullets with a 40 cal meplat, but 400 fps difference in impact velocity and 200% difference in energy will have significant difference in would volume. Check out Veral Smith's book where he has the charts with meplat vs impact velocity. Here is some of his data in this link. https://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html

The flat nose creates a bow wave in flesh/gel/water. The faster a given meplat impacts, the larger the wound. The high pressure flesh squirting away from the meplat acts like a 360 degree pressure washer, cutting flesh a certain distance away from the meplat. The faster a given bullet, the further away it will cut flesh with its bow wave. It seems like your model only uses expanded diameter and total penetration depth but doesn't account for impact energy. Two bullets with the same expanded diameter and same penetration can have dramatically different wounds when the energy is significantly different. Two bullets with the same expanded diameter and same penetration will have virtually identical wounds when energy is nearly equal.

A faster 1200 fps 40 cal meplat will undoubtably have a larger wound than an 800 fps, equal size meplat. I have seen it in gel and many deer.

A .34 meplat at 800 fps will make a half inch wide wound in gel or animals. A .28 cal meplat at 1000 fps will also make a half inch wide wound. It appears that your model would put these at different wound volumes if they had equal penetration.

Another example: take a .34 meplat a 800 fps and you get a half inch wide wound. Take that same .34 meplat and shoot it at 1200 fps and the wound is 1.125" wide now. The difference in total wound volume would increase about 5x. A half inch wound that is 18" long has 3.5 cubic inches of damaged tissue. A 1.125 inch wound that is 18" long has 17.7 cubic inches of damaged tissue. Of course in the real world wounds are larger at the beginning and smaller at the end but in this example we used a parallell cylinder to get our volume measurements.

In the first 6" of a gel block I guarantee the 30SC load from above would have at least twice the wound volume of the WC, then the last 12" would look similar to the 38 WC. There would be a much wider wound in the first 6" where the 30 SC is dumping its energy from the 40 cal meplat at 1200 fps. We would definitely see that the maximum width of the wound is larger with the SC. I would predict to see at least a few inches of the gel block near the beginning with tears extending to 1.5 inch wide from the SC load. The maximum wound width seen from the 38 WC would probably not exceed .75 inch at its widest.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Finally got around to shooting the hollow point experiment.
I loaded my maximum velocity load of AA#7. Same powder charge and seating depth for all 4 boolits. Only difference was the weight from the hollow points being drilled. If I recall correctly the hollow point depths were 3/16” deep. The 1/4” cup point was drilled until the drill cut full diameter.
The boolits were shot into a row of 1 gallon water jugs placed back to back.
5 shots were fired across the chronograph and the 6th shot was fired into the water jugs for penetration and expansion.

Before:
303264

After:
303265

The boolits were Accurate 31-117 cast 97%Pb, 1%Sb, 2%Sn aged approximately 3 weeks.

The no-drilled boolit 1276 fps, sdev 8, stopped in 5th jug, expanded diameter 0.480” x 0.510”.
1/8” hollow point 1290 fps, sdev 5, stopped in 3 jug, expanded diameter 0.520” x 0.620” almost broke apart.
3/16” hollow point 1311 fps, sdev 5, stopped in 3 jug but dented the front wall of the 4th, expanded diameter 0.495” x 0.535”.
1/4” cup point 1283 fps, sdev 8, stopped in 3 rd jug but ruptured the front wall of the 4th, expanded diameter 0.535” x 0.560”.

I haven’t been near my balance to check retained weights yet. The hollow points might have lost a little weight.

All of the loads exploded the first jugs like balloons. The second jugs all looked similar and had large rips. The third jugs had rupture lines around the entrance holes. The no-drill boolit passed through the 4 jug with very little tearing and the entrance into the 5th jug was a simple hole.

My conclusion is the hollow points definitely stopped quicker, the cup point did good but I don’t think there is enough difference for me to bother with drilling. I’ll just use them as cast and be happy with 4-5 jugs penetration and the exploded 1st jug.

At the end of the jug experiment I had some jugs leftover. So I fired a shot from my 327 LCR using the same boolit. It expanded to a pretty consistently round 0.420”. It was cast 96%Pb, 2%Sb, 2%Sn and aged probably 2 months. I didn’t chronograph that load but I think it’s velocity is about 1300 fps.

[pettypace]

I enjoy your model and its predictions but I have to admit I am confused by a few things. Why does an 18" penetrating bullet not count the whole wound path as defensive wound mass? 18" penetration is not likely to exit. Less than 20% of 18" gel shots will exit humans per FBI data. That data was gathered in the late 80s and American's BMI has gone up significantly since then, making 18" even less likely to exit. I would understand if a bullet penetrated 30" and your model put the big game wound mass at a larger number than the defensive would mass.


The VIRGEL app is based on Duncan MacPherson's book Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma. I tried to make VIRGEL as faithful to MacPherson's work as I could. For example, my decision to not count penetration beyond 15" in calculating "Defense Wound Mass" was based on these quotes from MacPherson:

The wound trauma model for purposes of WTI assessment is the effective mass of the tissue crushed in the permanent wound cavity at penetration depths less than 15 inches. (page 276).

Penetration depths greater than 15 inches are not rewarded because these penetration depths are almost always beyond the vital structures in the target body. (page 278).

I bet there'd be some interest in discussing the role of the meplat and bullet energy as wounding mechanisms. But that would likely send this thread wildly off course. Perhaps you'd consider starting a new thread with the info contained in your previous post?

[pettypace]

Another example: take a .34 meplat a 800 fps and you get a half inch wide wound. Take that same .34 meplat and shoot it at 1200 fps and the wound is 1.125" wide now. The difference in total wound volume would increase about 5x. A half inch wound that is 18" long has 3.5 cubic inches of damaged tissue. A 1.125 inch wound that is 18" long has 17.7 cubic inches of damaged tissue. Of course in the real world wounds are larger at the beginning and smaller at the end but in this example we used a parallell cylinder to get our volume measurements.


This suggests that SOS's 117 grain WC shot at 1200 f/s and "riveting" to a flat-nosed 0.34" diameter meplat would produce a wound volume in excess of 15 cubic inches. That's about ten times the volume suggested by MacPherson's WTI model shown below:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/30SC_meplat_01.png

In fact, the 15 cubic inch wound volume suggested by the "meplat model" for the 30 SC is more than the volume of the permanent cavity of the 12 gauge rifled slug (about 13 cubic inches) shown in Fackler's wound profile below:

http://snubbyfest.000webhostapp.com/expansion/12_gauge_slug_profile.png

Obviously, no amount of meplat will put the wound volume from a 30SC (or any other service-sized handgun, for that matter) in the same league as the 12 gauge slug. For example, if you squint hard enough at the data table on this page (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/), you can see that the wound volumes calculated by the FBI for a variety of handgun cartridges under consideration seldom exceeded 4 cubic inches even for high performance .45 and 10mm cardridges while the best .357 and 9mm JHP's seldom exceeded 3 cubic inches.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Pettypace,
I’m loving the performance from 30SC.
But…..yep I’ll confirm.
It’s not in the same league as a 12 gauge slug.

[35remington]

Just took in a Shield Plus in 30 SC with a Holosun 507K(X2) arriving Friday.

Am I bored with 9mm everything and want to try something different? Yes.

Will see if the combination will let me warm up to microcompacts. Or at least let me shoot them better and closer to what my favored compacts do (2.0 3.6s with Leupold Delta Point Pro Micros in 9 and 40).

[Kuduking]

Still waiting for pressure-tested data from Hodgdon and Alliant. Might be along wait. Factory loaded ammo is more profitable for them.

[Kuduking]

Still waiting for pressure-tested data from Hodgdon and Alliant. Might be along wait. Factory loaded ammo is more profitable for them.

Emailed Vista/ATK/Alliant/Federal/Speer about a month ago and they were indignant that I would suggest they publish data for it. "Takes time". Right. They developed this cartridge over a year ago.

Yet, a guy in a cowboy hat developed a few loads in his backyard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cY6NyV-EWM

But Hodgdon just delivered, in time for Thanksgiving

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

Looks like I finally have a use for that Longshot I bought a year ago...

[shooting on a shoestring]

COOL!
Thanks for posting Kuduking.

[justindad]

Holy cow Hodgdon has a lot of data. I sure would like to see a pistol that holds 20 rounds in .30SC.

[Gray Fox]

Maybe KelTec will make one with a large mag. GF

[GooseGestapo]

Interesting!
I’d missed that Hodgdons had posted .30SC data.

What little I’d done with #5,#7, #2400, and LongShot, the surprise comes with LongShot!

All the data that SOSS posted was similar to mine and what Hodgdons posted.
However, the max charge of Hodgdons with LongShot is about a grain and a half above what I called “max”.

I’ll have to retry with some CCI SPP, and SRP.
I was getting primer cratering and heavy swiping of primers above 5.7 so called 5.4-5.5 as tops. Somewhat lower velocities from my 3.6” barrel too.

We’ll see...

[Kuduking]

Loaded 6.0 gr Longshot with Sierra 90 JHC and Hornady 100 XTP, OAL 1.090". Had CCI 400 SR primers on hand and used those. Will test and report back.

Used Lee dies on a Dillon RL550. L .32 SWL shellplate does not work. A .32 ACP shellplate has poor fit, doesn't hold case during priming. The recommended .22 Hornet shellplate is just not quite right. The extractor groove on the .30 SC is tapered and the square edge on the top of shellplate damages it. Had to modify the shellplate by beveling the top edge.

[L-R] - Once-Fired Case, Resized case before shellplate modification, Loaded round after shellplate modification
307686

Modified Shellplate (beveled top edge):
307690

Modification Tool:
307688

Finishing 400 grit paper:
307689

The Lee round nose bullet seater smashed the exposed lead nose of the Sierra 90 JHC into a helmet shaped oddball. Trimming was not ideal and doubt I will be using those again.

[Kuduking]

Range Results Part One

S&W Shield EZ, .30 Super Carry, 3.625" Barrel. Chrono @ 20 feet, 68 F.

Handloads
Hornady 100 XTP, 6.0 gr Longshot, CCI 400, OAL 1.090"
7 Yard 5-shot group 3/4"
1268 fps, SD 11

Sierra 90 JHC, 6.0 gr Longshot, CCI 400, OAL 1.090"
7 Yard 5-shot group 5/8"
1319 fps, SD 13

SNS 90 FPL-C, 4.5 gr Longshot, CCI 400, OAL 1.115"
7Y 5-shot group 1/2"
1178 fps, SD 15

Factory Load
Hornady 100 FTX Critical Defense Factory Load
7Y 5-shot group 7/8"
1149 fps, SD 13

Previous control load
Remington 100 JHP Factory Load
1176 fps SD 9

All handloads used once-fired Federal brass. Functioning was 100%. Recoil and case ejection were mild with the 100 FPL-C load. Blast was noticeable with the 100 XTP load. Unburnt powder appeared non-existent with all loads. Barrel and feed ramp fouling somewhat greater than factory ammunition, but cleaned easily. Remarkable consistency with both factory and handloads.

The Hornady factory load was underwhelming, coming in at 100 fps less than spec, with resulting low energy figures.

Primer Appearance
307875

Hodgdon maximum of Longshot with the 100 XTP is 6.7 gr, start charge 4.5 gr. I went with 6.0 gr, which Hodgdon data would predict 1272 fps, so I think their data looks good in this pistol. Based on velocity/recoil/ejection/primer appearance, I may try 6.2 gr, not sure I want to go higher with the CCI 400 primer. Perhaps the Federal 205 primer, as used in the Hodgdon data, is stiffer. Unfortunately, don't have any.

N.B. The muzzle blast is surprising with this pistol and my usual chrono distance of 15 feet was a no-go as the screens were being set off by the escaping gases. I had to move back to 20 feet to get consistent proper readings.

[Kuduking]

Range Results Part Two

307876

My previous tests with the Hornady 100 XTP in .32 H&R Mag and .327 Federal indicated that penetration might be enthusiastic in .30 SC, and it turned out to be correct. It is equivalent to Remington 100 JHP and Federal 100 HST in penetration, although both those factory loads expand more, close to 0.560". Don't see any advantage to the handloaded 100 XTP other than cost and availability.

The Sierra 90 JHC load bears re-testing. The inconsistency in performance was likely due to varying amounts of bullet deformation in seating and lead trimming. After shooting, I examined a few different bullet seating dies I had on hand for other .32 cartridges and replaced the Lee die with another brand (which I won't name because I think their dies are crap) which had a better shaped bullet seating punch. Loaded a dummy cartridge with the Sierra bullet and it appeared sound. This load seems promising with 350 ft lbs of muzzle energy, penetration averaging 14" and expansion greater than the factory JHP and HST.

The Hornady 100 FTX Critical Defense load with it's underperforming velocity penetrated well and expanded consistently. It would be a good for those needing an even lighter recoiling load for defensive purposes, although energy level is disappointing.

[GooseGestapo]

I don’t know if anyone noticed, the Hornady 100gr load with LongShot is over 100fps faster than factory ballistics.
This solidly puts it in the 9mm league. Nice to know the already hot factory loads leave a small amount of power on the table for reloaders.

I’ve picked up a NOE 100gr FNGC 5-cavity mold. I’ve started working up loads with LongShot so I’ll be reporting back. Early results in my Taurus Mod76 in .32H&R show great promise.

[BC17A]

Great thread, let's keep it going. I picked up my 30SC Shield Plus last week and although the pistol was flawless, I was underwhelmed with the factory ammo. Was getting about 94% of rated velocity which is pretty good considering the 3.1" barrel, but I know our handloads can do better. I've got loads worked up with the 100XTP using AA7 and Longshot along with several using the Lee 311-100-2R. Hoping to see 1260+ from the XTPs and Longshot but need to wait for the range to dry up for a few days since it snowed yesterday.


https://i.postimg.cc/7Yd4CVpc/30screloads.jpg (https://postimages.org/)print screen (https://postimages.org/app)

[shooting on a shoestring]

Good to see you guys making progress reloading 30 Super Carry. Keep up the good work!

I had to sit out for awhile because I broke mine. The MIM firing pin block broke.

309581

The broken bit jammed the firing pin. Gave me light strikes at first then no strikes.

S&W wouldn’t sell fire control parts to either me or the LGS who is a S&W Armourer. So, it went back, got a new firing pin block installed and came back working. Took about 2 months.

Now here’s the odd part….I got worried 30 SC might die out before Sig, Glock or someone else would make a better pistol. I’ve accumulated a good bit of brass and love the cartridge. So I bought a second Shield while they’re still available. Ha! I might be the first guy in history (so far) to buy a second gun in 30 Super Carry!

[BC17A]

I had to sit out for awhile because I broke mine. The MIM firing pin block broke.


Wow!, that's the first FP block I've seen broken. Have read several reports of breech blocks shattering and why I never got excited about the 9mm EZ. Hopefully they only had a bad run of blocks and corrected the problem before deciding to use it with the 50k PSI 30SC.

Anyway, hows the chamber/throat on the EZ, any room for longer OAL's to increase charges with slower powders? So far the Shield Plus looks promising as it has a generous throat. The 100XTP seats to 1.090" by the book, but can go out to 1.170" and still chamber reliably. The Lee 311-100 leaves even more case volume than the XTP at it's max OAL. Might be enough room to use AA#9 and safely achieve even higher velocities than AA#7 or Longshot.

[BC17A]

Okay, I had a chance to hit the range a few times so here's the good, bad and the ugly. First trip I got some data as to where the Shield Plus should perform as to load data using a 3.1" barrel compared to the 4" test barrel. With this I had a pretty good idea of where my handloads would perform as far as velocity goes.

Starting with Accurate #7 with the 100gn & 85gn XTP, all velocities were very close to where my calculations said they should be. I was only firing 3 rounds per test load so I didn't worry about recording ES or SD.

Hornady 100XTP, 6.1gn AA#7, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1109 FPS

Hornady 100XTP, 6.4gn AA#7, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1158 FPS

Hornady 100XTP, 6.7gn AA#7 (max), Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1217 FPS

Hornady 85XTP, 7.2gn AA#7, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.080" OAL
1265 FPS

Hornady 85XTP, 7.5gn AA#7, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.080" OAL
1309 FPS

Hornady 85XTP, 7.8gn AA#7 (max), Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.080" OAL
1351 FPS


Next up were the Longshot loads. This is where things got interesting and why I believe GooseGistapo is correct about Longshot being about max at only 6 grains(or less). After thinking about what I was going to load and running the data through my head, I thought it was odd that Longshot would have the same maximum charge as Accurate #7, especially when every cartridge I load with those two powders show AA#7 having a 20-25% higher maximum charge. With this in mind I decided to start at 15% reduced from Hodgdon's data.

Hornady 100XTP, 5.9gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1313 FPS. I calculated this load to reach only 1188fps.

Hornady 100XTP, 6.2gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1341 FPS. I calculated this load to reach only 1215fps.

This is when I stopped because something didn't add up. At first I had the chronograph set at 12 feet so I moved it out to 15 and finally out to 20 feet when the readings were still much higher than I had calculated they should be. After examining the brass closer, and noticing the deep creases, I decided to stop and go home to pull down the rest of those rounds to see if I had made an error on the weights. Nothing I did was wrong and all powder charges were spot-on to the load data so I loaded some up with closer to start charge weights. After testing those earlier today I believe that Hodgdon's data needs to be used with EXTREME CAUTION.

Hornady 100XTP, 5.2gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1227 FPS. I calculated this load to reach only 1134fps.

Hornady 100XTP, 5.4gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1240 FPS. I calculated this load to reach only 1152fps.

Maximum velocity I should expect to see from the 3.1" Shield Plus and the 100XTP is about 1270fps and will more than likely achieve at only 5.7 to 5.8 grains of Longshot which I should test next week. I can't imagine what a 6.7gn charge might do after seeing what the 6.2gn charge did.

So here's the picture of those two cases from the 1300+ fps loads. All the brass from the max AA#7 loads was perfect without even a hint of chamber creasing like these do. Oh, and just to be sure the chronograph wasn't acting up, I was using a brand new battery and also verified velocities across it from 900fps to 1500+ fps with several other guns. Thoughts?


https://i.postimg.cc/d33W2dHv/LSbrass.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[35remington]

The brass looks to be expanding into the unsupported barrel ramp area. Potentially very good call on smelling a rat when this combined with higher than expected velocities showed up. No smilies on the case is a good thing.

[35remington]

Will the gun allow loading to a longer OAL? A little room could help in this instance. Assuming the cartridge still fits.

Are the marks near the head fully circumferential or just on one side of the case?

[BC17A]

Will the gun allow loading to a longer OAL? A little room could help in this instance. Assuming the cartridge still fits.

Are the marks near the head fully circumferential or just on one side of the case?


The creasing is only along the less supported area at the top of the feed ramp, typically where a Glock would bulge/crease a case. As for the chamber/throat, yes it is generous and will chamber a 100XTP at 1.165" (.075" longer than book oal).

[35remington]

Then I would load the longer OAL the gun and magazine will accept and adjust powder charge as needed. At some point you may be able to attain decent desired velocity sans the bulges, possibly.

From a 3.1 inch Shield which I also own 1250 is nothing to sneeze at with a 100 and certainly exceeds factory load velocities. If you could only get Gold Dot as components in this weight.

I must say a little pistol that is between G19 and G17 capacity while being the size of a G43 is appealing to me but I still want an M and P Compact in say 3.6 or four inch in the caliber.

[megasupermagnum]

Emailed Vista/ATK/Alliant/Federal/Speer about a month ago and they were indignant that I would suggest they publish data for it. "Takes time". Right. They developed this cartridge over a year ago.

Yet, a guy in a cowboy hat developed a few loads in his backyard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cY6NyV-EWM

But Hodgdon just delivered, in time for Thanksgiving

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

Looks like I finally have a use for that Longshot I bought a year ago...

If you want an idea how long it takes Alliant to do anything. Back in 2007 they promised to republish data with bluedot for 41 magnum. Here we are, 2023, no new data. As far as I can tell, Alliant has never published loads with powders that were from when they were still called Hercules, yet they have consistently deleted loads over the years. The new powders they have developed since then have very minimal data. The reloader series of rifle powders are the only powders they have cared about at all. When Alliant does publish data for 30 super carry, I'd lay money it's with a powder like BE-86 or sport pistol, or some other nonsense that people don't want, but they just keep pushing so it can sell. Sorry for the rant. If you are counting on Alliant to publish data, you are in for the long haul. Next time a reloading manual such as the Lyman #52, or maybe even an updated #51 will surely have Alliant powder data.

Based on what I see, I would think both Herco and Bluedot would be phenomenal powders in this cartridge.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

So the advantage over 9mm would be increased capacity? Not a very good trade really given scarcity of brass and load data. You provided some valuable information. Thanks for that. I'll stick with the plentiful and inexpensive 9mm for now.

[Abert Rim]

Megasupermagnum, your Alliant rant resonates at my house. They have to be the most useless powder company of all time when it comes to developing and publishing load data. Just awful.

[shooting on a shoestring]

BC17A, sorry for the delay.
The Shield EZ barrel and chamber are great. No problems there. It’s got a little bit, estimate 1/16” freebore before the leade into the rifling starts. I haven’t tried loading any jacketed yet and may not get there.

When I get back to loading for it again I’m thinking I’ll either use a 77 gr TC I bought for 32acp or the 105 RF I bought for 32 SWL. I’m very happy with my big old 177 out of the case wadcutter. But I’ll try to branch out a little.

Someone asked about a fireball. I haven’t seen any from mine. I have shot it some at an indoor range but didn’t see any fireball. I just shot a 4 inch 44 Magnum at that indoor range with 28 gr 300mp and a 215 gr boolit. That was a fireball I could see!

[BC17A]

Sounds like S&W did right by both the Plus and EZ in 30SC using a decent reamer for the chambers. I'm going to work up more loads for the Lee 311-100 boolit this week using some Alliant powders since there's no point in waiting for data. I emailed them a few weeks ago to inquire about load data and this is their response. "I’m confident the lab is working on that. But at this time it is still not available. As to when it will be out, I could not tell you at this time".

As for muzzle flash, I didn't notice any with all of the powders I was using, CFE-Pistol, Autocomp, True Blue, WST, Longshot and Accurate #7. The last time out I did manage to test a few AA#9 loads using the 100XTP. Seated to 1.165" I could only squeeze in a max of 8.2 grains and they were mediocre at best only reaching 1114fps and leaving a lot of unburned powder in the barrel. I'll give them one more go using magnum primers but don't think there will be much improvement.

[BC17A]

Made it to the range again yesterday to test more LS loads with the 100XTP. This time I decided to remove any possible errors from my process and borrowed a friend's powder scale and chronograph. Though I have a new pound of LS I continued using the original pound since it's given me very consistent velocities matching data for 9mm, 10mm, 40cal and 500 Mag. After this test, I came to the conclusion that max load for LS/100XTP in 30SC is 5.6gn. I called Hodgdon last week and the guy I spoke with didn't seem to concerned with their data as it stands. I sent him the pics of my creased brass and he did email back and say they're going to use an employee's 30SC gun to see what kind of velocities they get compared to their test barrels. Haven't heard back yet so we'll see.


Hornady 100XTP, 5.6gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1277 FPS.

Hornady 100XTP, 5.7gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1290 FPS.

Hornady 100XTP, 5.8gn Longshot, Federal 205, Fed Brass (once fired), 1.090" OAL
1299 FPS. This load is just starting to show a slight crease on the brass.


****edit 2/2/2023****

Decided to load and test more Longshot today with a new pound I bought last year. Old powder lot was dated 2018 and this new lot 2021. Both lots tested nearly identical. 3 different charges and none more than 4fps difference in average velocities. I'm convinced that Hodgdon's Longshot data in the 30 Super Carry is well over maximum and caution be used with their data.

[shooting on a shoestring]

BC17A.
I have some Long Shot and had good results with it in 40 S&W and 10mm. Not surprised it works in 30 SC.

That’s pretty impressive getting close to 1300 fps with a jacketed 100 gr hp in that short little barrel. That the power of high pressure! This is a huge step above 32acp! It’s like stepping up to 35 caliber!

Gotta say though when you go to 50,000 psi in a pistol, brass flows, cases deform and primers flow. The actions on these little Smiths aren’t stable as a ‘98 Mauser. We’re not playing with a huge amount of steel around the chamber like on a 30’06. I’m surprised these little Smith’s can do it!

[35remington]

Mostly a function of how much brass is exposed. The gun communicates when things are going wrong, so that is helpful if you load prudently.

[BC17A]

Range day again today. Recorded some good baseline 30SC start loads with Power Pistol, BE-86 and Blue-Dot with the Lee 311-100. Will post data details after I get back out and work-up something substantial.

[Bigslug]

So, after looking at BC17's photos of puddled primers from where his loads went over-pressure, I'd like to float the following:

One thing I noted when this cartridge was born a year ago was that a 115 grain bullet in this diameter has nearly or exactly the same sectional density as a 147 grain 9mm bullet - which typically tends to penetrate better than the 115 and 124 grain 9mm counterparts and at lower speeds and pressures.

I think perhaps the way to load this thing may not be to firewall it with light bullets, but rather to increase the projectile mass and keep it to around 1000 fps. Probably gentler on the gun and the shooter, as well as maybe a better terminal performer.

[35remington]

From stubby 3.1 inch barrels the factory 115s go 1080 with no undue trauma to cases or primers, so I think that should be doable or a bit better with handloads as well.

[BC17A]

I'd likely be testing 115's as well, if they were available that is. Speer is about the only company making a 115 JHP and I haven't seen hide nor hair of any Speer handgun reloading bullets in quite some time.

[35remington]

Nor have I. The only ones I have found was twenty round boxes Gold Dot 115s factory. No components by Speer around here. My local Scheels sells 100 grain Remington and Federal FMJ and has sold out their allotments fairly expeditiously. Price on sale for 50 was 19.99 which is not too bad and cheaper than 40 and competitive with 380. The Cabelas in Omaha has very occasionally had defensive SC ammo but no practice ammo.

Not sure what that means. Local Scheels offers both Smith pistol variants for the cartridge. For some reason never looked to see if Cabelas does. Maybe next time.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Finally got my first split case in 30 Super Carry. I’ve lost track of how many times this batch of cases were reloaded. This particular batch also saw some heavy loads when I was working up loads to find the top end limit. The primer pockets loosened up noticeably after the first 3-4 reloadings but never got too loose to hold a primer. About then I backed off to loading 5.5 grains of my mil surp #5 under the 117 wadcutter. IIRC it runs a bit over 1200 fps and is pretty much in line with current factory loadings. I’m thinking this batch of cases has seen 5-6 loadings at that level.

So, all in all I’m happy with case life for 30 Super Carry. I was expecting very short case life due to the high pressures this cartridge runs. It’ll be interesting to see now if several more split soon or if this was just an early bloomer.

Also it makes me think Federal put some good metallurgy in these cases. I remember the first 32 H&R cases were brittle and split quickly. Glad to see that’s not happening in 30 Super Carry.

[JohnForrest]

Gentleman, I have enjoyed my first time reading down through the thread. 6 months of development so far, I hope it continues on the track it's started on. I have Lee dies and a Hi Point carbine on order. Found a Shield EZ for 4 Washington's a couple days ago so I am on board with you all. BTW Smith has a rebate deal of 3 magazines for certain guns (Shield EZ) purchased during the summer!

[shooting on a shoestring]

JF, welcome aboard to both the board and to hand loading 30 Super Carry.
I’d like to hear how the Lee dies work out. I’m still loading on RCBS 32 acp dies.
And….even though we’re in the Wheelguns, Pistols and Handcannons section, I hope you post some results with the carbine. I really think 30 Super Carry could stretch it’s legs with some more barrel.

[JohnForrest]

Thank you SOS. It was interesting to hear about the comparisons made to 7.62x25. Tokarev is one of my favorite oddballs to play with.

One thing I did want to bring up when I read about the trouble someone had with Long Shot. I wonder if 30 SC is as prone to pressure increases associated COL as 32 ACP? Might be something to watch a little closer?

[GooseGestapo]

I haven’t really been able to further explore the .30SC.
I Will say that SRP’s made a LOT of difference in primer extrusion and swipe. That’s my primary criteria as I lost the Semi Auto 1500 at the 1997 NPSC due to a Federal SPP swiping and leaving shaved metal in the firing pin hole. Lost 70pts. Cost me several guns… not won due to loss of points in combined aggregates.

I’ve been using a NOE 100gr RFN witch is really a Keith style SWC. With the SRP and 6.1gr of LongShot, I’m getting just over 1,250fps and decent accuracy. It’s good enough as cases aren’t thrown as far as faster loads. The NOE is a 5-cavity mold, so there’s THAT!

I’ve been buying 100rds of 100gr Federal AE every time I go by Academy sports, so I building a stash of ammo/brass.
I believe whoever said the future of the cartridge is with heavier bullets was onto something. I REALLY like the way the gun performs with the Lee 113gr .311” RFN-GC. My mold I’d is beagled to throw.314” and I size them to .314” for my Single-7.
I’ve been tempted to try some Speer 110gr .308 Varminters for grins and giggles.
I’m hoping someone will produce a barrel and slide conversion for a Glock or M1912.
$3,000 for a Night Hawk .30SC is beyond my pain tolerance…
I’d bounce for a full size M&P .30SC with a 21rd capacity however…

[TD1886]

Don't know if it is worth to post this here. I have quite a fr 30 Lugers and7.62 x25 Tokareva. I'm exceeding all our velocities with a 100 grain bullet especially out of the six inch Luger. I was using HP38 and loading it up half a grain at a time I will tell you the velocity with the 6 inch barrel with the 100 grain bullet got up to 1700 fps and I back off that that point to 1600 fps. I was seeing pressure, Not telling the load but it shot mighty fast and operated well. I had a couple guys with me and they were shot about two things, about how fast it went and how far off Hodgdon is on hot loading. No bugle on the case, not blow primers, case came out of the chamber easily. Maybe I'll cast some up for it and restest and get the ES ad SD too. Just stay tune. Only think over the single action board group could get on it that the 30 Super held more rounds.

[JohnForrest]

After visiting with a Brownell's tech I tried emailing Nighthawk about buying a mag, barrel, and slide to put a 1911 SC together? The reply was "Not selling any SC parts at this time". Made me wonder if enough fellas asked nicely they might consider it? I guess there is a whole raft of bullseye shooters wanting 1911 32 ACP mags and slides as well.

[shooting on a shoestring]

JF, I saw your question asking if 30 SC was more or less tolerant to changes in cartridge over-all length (COL) than 32 acp. I’ve been thinking….

I don’t really know at this point but have come up with a couple of thoughts.

First, COL is critical in both cartridges.

Second, my opinion is 30 SC will be slightly more forgiving in changes to COL due to its bigger case capacity and being loaded with slower powders.

[JohnForrest]

I think you are right on the money SOS.

[JohnForrest]

JF, welcome aboard to both the board and to hand loading 30 Super Carry.
I’d like to hear how the Lee dies work out. I’m still loading on RCBS 32 acp dies.
And….even though we’re in the Wheelguns, Pistols and Handcannons section, I hope you post some results with the carbine. I really think 30 Super Carry could stretch it’s legs with some more barrel.




Took some Blazer brass 115 FMJ down by the barn and sent them through the chronograph. Shield EZ were all around 1024-1040 Hi Point carbine 16" barrel were 1268-1278 What suprisede me was how quiet the shots fired out of the longer barrel. Also pretty suprised and pleased with the Hi Point. $340 gun ran flawless from the first shot. Not saying it's for everyone but I like it. Cant wasit for rabbit hunting this winter.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well that’s interesting.
So with the Blazer 115 FMJ, the little 3.68” barrel Shield got 80% of the velocity the 16” barrel made. I’m going to interpret that as the 30 Super Carry is all about high chamber pressure but doesn’t have the case capacity or expansion ratio to keep the high acceleration past the first 4 inches or so. In other words the last 12” of acceleration only netted 200 fps but the first 3.68” netted 1030 fps. That makes me think the little Shield EZ might be a better host for 30 Super Carry than I thought.

The low muzzle report from your carbine also means low muzzle pressure.

But, that’s not a bad thing for carbine. Yep I’ll bet you have fun with it.
Thanks for posting.

[JohnForrest]

Remington and blazer ammo have a 30 cuper carry promo. Buy 3 boxes get rebate on 3rd box. Promotions.vistaoutdoor.com I didn't know cci, speer, blazer were all remington and Vista outdoor. I wonder if Blazer and remington ammo are all the same brass? Oh yea, max $200 rebate per household

[shooting on a shoestring]

Thanks for the heads up.
Yep I’m thinking 30 Super Carry ammo is not selling well and it’ll soon be gone.
Then after a few decades it’ll be all the rage for collector’s. Maybe like the 22 Remington Jet and S&W Model 53’s.

But by then I probably won’t be shooting much and most of my brass will be lost or shot ‘till split.

So….I’m buying what I can to shoot it as long as I can. It’s good’un!

[JohnForrest]

I just heard about a fella that works at Hi Point. He is working up loads for 30 SC with jacketed 50 and 65 grain bullets. Close to 2500 fps out of 16" barrel. And over 1800 in Shield EZ. Wouldn't something like an old model 12 Remington pump be a fun gun in 30 SC?

[kenton]

SG ammo has Remington for $24/50 rounds. Free shipping if you spend over $200.

https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/30-super-carry

[Bawana17]

Living in The People's Republik of California sucks. I would love to get a .30 Super Carry, but Cali doesn't seem to have one available on their gun registry. A real shame, as I have a boatload of boolits for it, as I load 327, 32 H&R, 32 S&W short and long, as well as 32 Auto. Gotta love my Ruger Single Seven, as it can shoot all of the above. VERY handy quality when exposing new shooters, as the recoil varies from none to a reasonable amount in the 327 with the hottest loads. I keep looking for older 32's, to no avail. My A.H brother-in-law sold a K32 to a gun shop instead of me as we don't get along. Since he knows NOTHING about guns, I'm quite sure he got taken. Looking forward to leaving this place soon, and getting a few new toys, including the 30 Super once I establish residency in my new State.

[Captain Wheelgun]

Shooting on a Shoestring, I’ve been following this thread from the beginning, but now I need go go back and re-read it since I’ve just added a Shield EZ .30 SC to my .32 collection.

One question though. I’ve found that the grip safety pinches the web of my hand. Did yoy have any problems with this?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ahoy Cap’n!
Welcome to the 30 Super Carry party!

Grip Safety pinch? No. I haven’t had any pinch nor bite from my Shield EZ.

But…I’ve sure wished I could have this wonderful cartridge in another platform.
I’d jump on an Sig P365 or a Hi Power clone like the Springfield SA35. Heck I’d even buy a Glock if they’d do 30SC.

Keep us posted on your experience with 30 SC.

[justindad]

The Hodgdon 2024 Annual Manual has load data for six different bullets in the .30SC. Longshot gets a 100 gr XTP going 1,336 fps.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Thanks for the update.
Yep this high pressure cartridge can perform way better than expected from a 32.
Glad to hear there’s some data showing up.
I think I’ve got some 100 gr XTPs. Might have to try them.
But I’m still shooting the heck out of mine with my big old full meplat 31-117E from Accurate Molds. It works so good I just keep loading it back every time I get some brass empty.

[Abert Rim]

Shoestring, I continue to be impressed with that Accurate boolit and the fact that it feeds. I am looking at Accurate 31-115H.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Albert,
ME TOO!
I would have bet money it would not feed in a reciprocator. I designed it for 327 and heavy loaded 32-20 revolvers. I was totally amazed that boolit fed in the Shield EZ 30 SC. And it doesn’t just sort of feed, it hasn’t had any failures to feed. It just runs!
Really though I’ll have to say that’s due to the Shield EZ design and not the boolit.

[Abert Rim]

I have had too much Kool-Aid here. Grabagun in Coppel, TX, has the Shield EZ and Shield Plus on sale for $299. Have an EZ on the way.:cool:

[shooting on a shoestring]

Wow!
Good for you!
There’s a lot of fun to be had for $299!

When you pull the slide off or put it on, stay off of the grip safety. It’s not intuitive but it’s not hard to do. I’m suspicious not doing that may have lead to my firing pin block breaking.

Overall I’ve been impressed with the EZ Shield. And I’ve really gotten used to the easy to load magazines to the point I’m aggravated with all the others.

I’m anxious to hear what you think of the gun and caliber.

[Abert Rim]

Will report. Glory be, my local Academy has the ammo in stock -- both Federal and CCI. Will probably stick with Federal to have consistent brass.

[Abert Rim]

Ran a few dozen Federal factory loads through the EZ yesterday. Very pleasant shooting experience!

[shooting on a shoestring]

Wooohooo!
Now you’ve got some empty brass.
What are you going to load in it?

[Soundguy]

I'm late to this thread. There is now 30sc load data.

I didn't like it in cast..even hard gas checked alloy... So much pressure.. I was not finding a happy load range that operated the slide fully..gave a good self defense power range..and that left 0 fouling. Imho..this is a cartridge that will prefer plated or jacketed rounds if you want optimal performance vs just operational performance.

I love cast and shoot it in virtually everything I own.. I do on occasion find cartridges or applications where cast just is too sub optimal...

[Abert Rim]

I ordered the Accurate 31-115H from Tom and plan to powder coat it. I hope that works out. Will probably work with Long Shot first.
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-115H

[shooting on a shoestring]

Albert, I like your choices! Pretty similar to where I went for my first tries. And, pretty much where I ended up. I’m anxious to hear your progress.

What do you think of the EZ system for loading the magazine?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Soundguy, I size my boolits to 0.316” and cast them from about 96/2/2 Pb/Sn/Sb aged from a week to 6 months. I drive them hard enough to get 0.001” case head expansion. The nose of my Accurate 31-117E is a bore ride with some clearance at 0.300”. The ones I've recovered all show the bore ride portion obturated to fill the grooves. That might be the mechanism that lets me shoot that soft alloy at way over 357 Magnum pressures without stripping the riflings. The whole length of the boolit grabs the rifling. It also seals really well.

If you get the urge to revisit shooting cast, I suggest you try soft boolits with pressure up near 50,000 psi and see if they strip and tumble or obturate and shoot straight and clean. My 2cents.

[Abert Rim]

The EZ mags are a dream to load compared to so many others. Lee dies arrived today, along with the .314 push-through sizer. Not sure when to expect Tom's .31-115H mold. He has been faster than
expected for my last couple of orders.

[Abert Rim]

Finally got the Accurate 31-115H mold, cast some slugs and loaded one just for starters. I think it is a darned handsome boolit.

https://i.postimg.cc/0zDF1Qhr/image-50402817.jpg (https://postimg.cc/0zDF1Qhr)

[35remington]

Looks like one of Veral Smith’s ogival wadcutters.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Oh yeah!
That’s a fine looking boolit.
Put 40,000 to 50,000 psi behind it and I’ll bet you grin!

[pettypace]

Looks like one of Veral Smith’s ogival wadcutters.

Or like Keith's 260 grain .44 Special Belding & Mull bullet. Here's a pic from Sixguns, page 281.

324808

[JohnForrest]

Hey SOS,

I am thinking about getting a two stack to go with my EZ. What's your opinion on the thumb safety?

[shooting on a shoestring]

John Forrest, my opinion is thumb safeties are a personal thing like boxers or briefs.

I don’t want them on my polymer framed guns, but I’m fine with them on my 1903’s, 1911’s and Hi-Powers. That strikes me as odd.

I’ve heard the stories of folks in a fight not being able to disengage a thumb safety or squeeze a grip safety due to struggling over the gun while a thug was trying to wrest it from them.

That’s often countered with stories where the thug got the gun but couldn’t shoot the good guy bc the thug didn’t disengage the thumb safety.

Then there’s stories where someone lets a kid find a gun. The kid points it and pulls the trigger. If the thumb safety is on it doesn’t make the news.

I say pick the one that best suits your needs, beliefs, feelings and be happy!