Have you ever worked the DuPont rotating shift schedule?

[Russel Nash]

It is usually implemented in industries which have to run continuously 24/7 like:

Chemical plants
Refineries
Power plants / power houses (both nuclear and coal)

and…

Police departments

The “perk” to the DuPont schedule is that whatever crew you are on, you are scheduled (key word…”scheduled” ) to have like 6/7 days off in a row.

You can read up on the DuPont schedule here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_plan

300131

That is one version of it.

My spidey sense gets tingley with a name like “DuPont” behind it .

It makes me think that somehow it short changes workers on overtime pay (anything past 40 hours in a week period).

But I could be wrong.

Besides, that perk of having 1 week off per month…I bet the low man on the totem pole… gets stuck with forced overtime during that week off.

I currently work at a refinery on a modified Panama schedule.

We voted the DuPont schedule down twice.

What say you?

[DougGuy]

You work an overtime schedule but get no overtime pay. And companies wonder why they can't build loyalty, wonder why workers unionize, steal from the company, can't keep workers, on and on.

I worked power plants in Virginia and it was 10 on 4 off for straight time pay. Hated it.

[waksupi]

Could be worse, you could work for Burlington Northern.

[Moleman-]

Yes, it sucked trying to plan normal things like appointments or get togethers with friends/family. The extra days off were nice though.

[downzero]

You work an overtime schedule but get no overtime pay. And companies wonder why they can't build loyalty, wonder why workers unionize, steal from the company, can't keep workers, on and on.

I worked power plants in Virginia and it was 10 on 4 off for straight time pay. Hated it.

I would be thrilled to have that many days off in a row ever without taking vacation! One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[.429&H110]

I had one of the first pagers in 1973. Work all day, chase the pager all night, until laid off for summer. I still celebrate Tuesdays as pass the pager day. Last job gave me an Android for a pager, is that progress? Maybe, if you can figure out an Android.

One job was 6pm to 6am three days, 6pm to midnight Wednesdays for three years. My wife took longer and longer vacations. If I still worked that shift today, she'd still be on permanent vacation.
The genius of that shift is four guys cover 24/7. Someone doesn't show up, I could have a 36 hour shift.
Only by The Grace of God am I still married.

My dad taught me that policemen are so mean because they work rotating shifts.

[~JM~]

Worked a 12hr rotation for many years. The schedule began with 4 nights, 3 off, 3 days, 24hrs off, 3 nights, 3 off, 3 days, 7-8 off, repeat. Much of the 7-8 days off used to catch up on lost sleep & projects.

The first 4 was treated as a 40hr week with 8 hrs OT @ 1.5X. Supposed to balance out? Works better on a bi-weekly pay schedule. Not as well on bi-monthly.

Prior was an 8hr rotation. I believe the 12hr was more desirable.

Any day/night rotation is less than ideal & has negative physical/mental health effects. Several cases of sleep apnea & worse. Divorce not uncommon.

[redriverhunter]

i work corrections i work 12 hour days 4 on 4 off that is the greatest perk. I take 4 days off equals 12 without having to go in to work.

[.429&H110]

Excellent book from 1986
"Awake at 3AM by choice or by chance?" by Coleman

Sleep deprivation is the only form of torture that actually works.

[Bmi48219]

I occasionally (when nothing better was available) worked for a company that was contractually obligated to provide adequate round the clock manpower for emergency repairs. Of course every project was an emergency. To make things worse they were signatory to a Presidential Agreement that resulted in a ten percent pay cut.
This resulted in the supervisor frequently pushing employees to work 8 on an 8 off. I had heard about this practice from others. My response to the super’s first request was I would gladly stay on the job as long as needed but my OT started after my first 8 hours.
My fellow employees were shocked but I was told to just come back in the morning. I was the only guy on the crew the supervisor respected, to the extent that when I told him I was dragging up for an OT job he said he’d match the pay and hours the new job offered. I thanked him and left anyway.

[white eagle]

use to work factory and was 4-10's and a 3 banger, loved that
then went to construction and str8, 8's loved the money
now no work retired thank god

[megasupermagnum]

The schedule itself is not designed to short you on overtime. You are still working 7 days in a 2 week pay period no matter what. The purpose is to get people to work weekends. It's an older concept, you don't see it in that exact form very often anymore. I currently work with two guys who do a version of that, except the rotation isn't much of a rotation with only two. They work 12 hour shifts. It's the 12 hour days non-stop that gets you. I opted for mon-fri 9 hour days.

3M is a good example of what that schedule has become. They not only rotate days, they rotate shifts. So you are working 8 hour days in theory, but one week you are on 1st shift, the next on 2nd, then the next on 3rd. I don't know what order they do it in. It's straight up torture. Why anyone would subject themselves to that for a little more pay, I'll never know.

I still maintain that 4/10 days is the greatest. Hire a 3 day weekend crew, and pay them for it if you want people to work weekends.

[super6]

Mine was 3 twelves on and two off then two on and three off paid overtime after eight hours, Days off rotated so off time was week ends or weekdays always moved up a day up every week, Gave me time to hang at San Diego board walk.... Any that have been there would know!

[MaryB]

They tried to force us to do this at the casino. We balked and walked out. They decided we could stay on a fixed shift. I worked 4 to mids for years, 10 days on 4 off. When my vacation rolled around I scheduled it to coincide with my 4 days off so I ended with 15 days off when I tossed in my birthday day off. Was nice to get away that long. The casino is a very fast paced high pressure job. I repaired electronics, mainly slot machines and their data collection system.

[sharps4590]

When I was on the Police Dept. we worked what was then called a "wheel". That was over 40 years ago and I don't remember the details but it seemed to work well. IIRC, everyone got some holiday's off and weekends seemed evenly distribute as well. Worst thing about it was when you changed shifts. If you didn't have the next day off you only had 8 hours between shifts.

[Handloader109]

I worked at a Milliken textile plant in the 80s. We ran a 10 hour rotation, with a real twist. There was a mini shift. They worked 24 hours a week, 6 to 10pm, with Wednesday off. Worked well for some folks not wanting FT, and students that wanted to work.

There were three other shifts, and we worked 10 hour shifts, except on turn day (Wednesday, when it was 8 hour day)
A shift would come in 8 to 4 on Wednesday, B 4 to midnight and C midnight to 8am. A Shift came in Thursday at 8am to 6pm, and worked 1st shift Thurs through the following Tursday, and on Wednesday, moved to 4pm to Midnight, then off till 10pm Friday night. Then worked night shift Friday through Tuesday 10pm to 8am, and on Wednesday worked midnight to 8am, which was actually Thursday. Then off till the following Wednesday when you came in at 8am again....... 40 hours per week and only a crazy person could have come up with it.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Russel Nash]

You work an overtime schedule but get no overtime pay. And companies wonder why they can't build loyalty, wonder why workers unionize, steal from the company, can't keep workers, on and on.

I worked power plants in Virginia and it was 10 on 4 off for straight time pay. Hated it.

Yep!

At my work, yesterday, they fired an alky unit control room / board operator (alky as in alkalination ).

Our environmental operations unit/sulfur plant has had something like 5 operators within the last year quit.

For us operators on this modified Panama schedule, we have 7 , 12 hour shifts scheduled in a 2 week period.

Three shifts one week.

Four shifts the other week.

With the crew I am on, that 7 shift lands on a Saturday….the pay period… so the first 4 hours ….#40 ,#39, #38, and #37 are straight time. The last 8 hours are time and a half.

The only other time we get OT is if a dude from another crew calls off sick or is on vacation.

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Yes! I definitely liked it better when I was a carpenter or millwright and anything over 8 was time and a half.

Saturday was 1.5

Sunday and holidays was double time.

[Russel Nash]

The schedule itself is not designed to short you on overtime. You are still working 7 days in a 2 week pay period no matter what. The purpose is to get people to work weekends. It's an older concept, you don't see it in that exact form very often anymore. I currently work with two guys who do a version of that, except the rotation isn't much of a rotation with only two. They work 12 hour shifts. It's the 12 hour days non-stop that gets you. I opted for mon-fri 9 hour days.

3M is a good example of what that schedule has become. They not only rotate days, they rotate shifts. So you are working 8 hour days in theory, but one week you are on 1st shift, the next on 2nd, then the next on 3rd. I don't know what order they do it in. It's straight up torture. Why anyone would subject themselves to that for a little more pay, I'll never know.

I still maintain that 4/10 days is the greatest. Hire a 3 day weekend crew, and pay them for it if you want people to work weekends.

Yeah, you’re right. You don’t get cheated on overtime.

When I was a brand new Air Force 2Lt in the base command post, when we had plenty of officers, it 8 hour shifts. It was like 2 days, 2 swings, 2 mids, and then like 4 days off.

Then we had an “El Tee” or two get deployed to the Sandbox.

Then we worked 12’s.

It was like 3 days on, 3 off, 3 nights on, and 3 off….repeat.

Uggghhh… what a sucky schedule.

[Russel Nash]

use to work factory and was 4-10's and a 3 banger, loved that
then went to construction and str8, 8's loved the money
now no work retired thank god

When I was a carpenter I had a solid surface certification (i.e. Corian counter tops).

So I got sent down to Ft. Leonard Wood, MO for a “barracks” remodel. (New Corian sinks, Corian shower surrounds, new Corian window sills.

We worked 4, 10’s. But there was a twist.

M, Tu, Wed, Th, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday off.

Then worked Tu, Wed, Th, and Fri. Off Saturday and Sunday.

Back to work M, Tu, Wed, Th…. Of Fri, Sat, Sun, and Monday.

So every other weekend was a 4 day weekend.

It was awesome!

Straight time for all 40, but still awesome.

:bigsmyl2:

[historicfirearms]

One of my favorite shifts that I worked was at a nuclear plant. It was 4-10s but one week we would work Tuesday through Friday, the next week would be Monday through Thursday. So every other weekend we had a four day weekend. The other weekend was a normal two day weekend.

[ulav8r]

In 72-73 worked at a paper mill on rotating shifts. Best I remember started Monday at midnight. Worked 5, then off 2, came back on second shift, 5 on and one off, then 5 days on, one off, 5 more days, then a 5 day weekend. Sundays were double pay, any week over 40 got time and a half. Averaged 42 hours a week.

[Frosty Boolit]

I still maintain that 4/10 days is the greatest. Hire a 3 day weekend crew, and pay them for it if you want people to work weekends.

Blue collar wisdom right here, I've heard this statement hundreds of times in just 22 yrs of work.

[country gent]

The can plant at Campbells was on crews, it had to run 24-7 to keep up with the production schedule. If I remember there were 4 crews.
A crew was day shift Monday to Friday with one 12 hour shift on Tuesday
B crew was afternoon shift Monday to Friday with 12 hour on Tuesday
I dont remember C and D crews but they covered the 4 night shifts and Saturday and Sunday
A and B got 42 hours with 2 being overtime
C and D got 36 with 24 being overtime

[dverna]

There is no perfect schedule. Best you can do is find one most people are ok with. Impossible to keep everyone happy.

[trails4u]

I do a fair bit of incident management work (fire, hurricane, flood, national emergency, etc...). Typically it's 0600-2200, 16hr days, 14-21 days at a stretch, depending on the incident and/or other resources available. What we say is..... 'Embrace the Suck'....

[fatelk]

I spent nearly a decade in a semiconductor fab, working the "compressed shift": `12hr shifts, four on, three off, three on, four off. A shift was Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and every other Wednesday 7am-7pm. B shift was 7pm to 7am. C was back half of the week, alternating Wednesdays, and D shift was back half nights. There was no rotating, seniority determined the best shifts. 48 hours one week, 36 the next. The built in overtime was nice.

Then one day they decided on a money saving change. They decided we needed an hour-long lunch break, alternating of course so the shift was still covered. We still did the same work in the same day as before, took the same lunch as we had time, arrived and left at the same time, but got 44 and 33 hours per week instead of 48 and 36. I've never seen so many angry workers in my life.

I work 4-10's now, love it. OT on Fridays occasionally, and call-out on weekends when things break down. Add in a short commute, flexible hours, and lots of time off after nearly 20 years, and it's hard to beat.

[Bmi48219]

When I first started working construction, on weekdays your first 8 hrs were ST, next 2 hrs were PT (time and a half) any hours after that we’re all DT (double time). Saturday, Sunday and holidays were all double time.
Back then we had a saying; all I want is forty hours, ten Saturday and ten Sunday.
Also if you didn’t have a full 8 hour shift off your next shift started and stayed on overtime, either time and a half or double time, which ever the day of the week required. Within 10 years they had negotiated away our double time on weekdays and Saturdays.
A 4-10s schedule was good but not a rolling 40 (4-10s on and 4 days off) because you wound up working weekends for straight time. That didn’t go over well.

[MT Gianni]

I was friends with several who worked that shift in Idaho in the 80's. Most loved it as it allowed them to farm and still get in a days paid work. Their farms usually suffered a little for it. I think it depends on your body. many can get used to it but some cannot. Many love it as the bosses are usually 8-4 Mon-Fri and they can do a lot less with only foreman trying to cover a shift.
I worked in an industry where there was real concern about who could drive the pull truck when the DOT said you couldn't drive more than 16 hours in a day. WHen power or gas is out 20-25 hours straight work was not unusual. The money was good if you could hang on to it.

[Geezer in NH]

As a FF in a big city I worked 2 10 hour days and 2 14 hour nights. 4 group system. Had a calenderer with groups on it so new year in advance when my group worked.

Day 1 10 hrs off 14 hrs, day 2 10 hours, 48 hrs off, next 14 hour shift, 10 off, 14 hour shift 72 hours off.

Way better than the older 48 hour weeks. We were however on call by recall group for multiple alarms (no extra pay) 1 day and one night (14 hour)

2 Years after I retired dept went to 24 hour shifts no idea how that works but brothers were very happy with it. I could see it be nice in a slow company but I was never in one of them. (to me that would be very BORING)

[rbuck351]

I did corrections for 20 years. We worked 7 12s on days then had a week off and then 7 12s on nights. I switched institutions and they gave some positions straight nights or straight days. I got lucky and got one of the straight night positions for the last six or seven years. You take a week of and have a three week vacation. And with straight nights I avoided the stressful day night switch and admin. There were no days off for holidays but you got an extra 8 hrs pay if you worked a holiday. You got OT for any time over 84 hrs a week or any time worked on your week off. If you worked a holiday on your week of it was 12 hrs OT and 8 hrs holiday pay. I really liked the schedule.

[gwpercle]

Could be worse ... You could be in business for yourself ...
then your schedule is from can untill can't with no overtime and no time off .
Gary

[TyGuy]

I work as a tech at an auto dealership. My department has three techs and works Monday through Friday, 7a-6p and alternate one day off during the week. So one week I’m off Monday. The next week I’m off Wednesday. The third week I have Friday off which rolls into the first week of the cycle (Monday off) resulting in a 4 day weekend every three weeks. It also opens up an extra lift three days a week to increase capacity for the two techs working M,W, and F. I really like the 4 ten hour days.

[Rich/WIS]

Before retirement worked for a company that provided underground locating services to various utility companies. Work was nominally 8 hours a day, overtime started after 40 hours. Say nominally because during the construction season was not unusual to be on OT on or before end of day on Wednesday. Had a lot of pay periods of 80 regular and 70-80 OT hours. We were also called out at night if utility repairs required digging, call out time was time and a half from when we left home until we got back. Was the best job I ever had, as long as you did the work only saw the supervisor when he brought supplies, and had a company truck so no vehicle expenses.

[Bmi48219]

The can plant at Campbells was…..

country_gent,
Do you recall when Campbells rejected a shipment of can steel from National Steel? I think it was around 1999 or 2000. It became a joke in the steel construction industry that their steel couldn’t hold soup.

[MaryB]

Before retirement worked for a company that provided underground locating services to various utility companies. Work was nominally 8 hours a day, overtime started after 40 hours. Say nominally because during the construction season was not unusual to be on OT on or before end of day on Wednesday. Had a lot of pay periods of 80 regular and 70-80 OT hours. We were also called out at night if utility repairs required digging, call out time was time and a half from when we left home until we got back. Was the best job I ever had, as long as you did the work only saw the supervisor when he brought supplies, and had a company truck so no vehicle expenses.

My job at the casino was theoretically 40 hours a week... it was very rare I was under 60 hours a week. I was 1 of 2 electronic repair techs keeping 1800 slot machines, 40 or so signs, the slot machine accounting data network, and anything else electronic running... we worked until it was fixed!

[fatnhappy]

The schedule itself is not designed to short you on overtime. You are still working 7 days in a 2 week pay period no matter what. The purpose is to get people to work weekends. It's an older concept, you don't see it in that exact form very often anymore. I currently work with two guys who do a version of that, except the rotation isn't much of a rotation with only two. They work 12 hour shifts. It's the 12 hour days non-stop that gets you. I opted for mon-fri 9 hour days.

3M is a good example of what that schedule has become. They not only rotate days, they rotate shifts. So you are working 8 hour days in theory, but one week you are on 1st shift, the next on 2nd, then the next on 3rd. I don't know what order they do it in. It's straight up torture. Why anyone would subject themselves to that for a little more pay, I'll never know.

I still maintain that 4/10 days is the greatest. Hire a 3 day weekend crew, and pay them for it if you want people to work weekends.

4/10 is almost the greatest.


The greatest was the deal I negotiated in 2001 when my son was born. I worked 3 12s. Friday, saturday, sunday. paid lunch. 6:00 am to 6:00pm. no swinging of shifts. I was paid a 40 hour week. the 4 additional hours granted to me so long as I worked 36. Anything over 36 hours was OT.

When I took a week's vacation I only needed to use 36 hours from my PTO bank and was paid 40, so I was effectively awarded 2 additional vacation days a year. Any holidays that fell M-Th were banked in my PTO.

When my son was little I was a stay at home Dad monday to thursday. My wife and I never paid for daycare. I was able to get out of all the BS in-law stuff on the weekends. I never dealt with weekend hunters. I got to take my son fishing anytime I wanted. When my mother was dying of pancreatic cancer I had the time I needed to take care of her, take her to the oncologist and chemo, see to it she was fed and ultimately was able to help her live at home until she passed.

They had to pull me off that shift kicking and screaming.

[shortlegs]

Try working the extra board at a railroad. 8hr to 11hr 59 min. and you get 8 hrs off add 1 min more and you get 10 hrs off. You never know when your next shift will be except that you will have 8 to 10 hrs off before you can work again. It was great pay and the retirement is great, but the extra board is not a family friendly work cycle.

[megasupermagnum]

4/10 is almost the greatest.


The greatest was the deal I negotiated in 2001 when my son was born. I worked 3 12s. Friday, saturday, sunday. paid lunch. 6:00 am to 6:00pm. no swinging of shifts. I was paid a 40 hour week. the 4 additional hours granted to me so long as I worked 36. Anything over 36 hours was OT.

When I took a week's vacation I only needed to use 36 hours from my PTO bank and was paid 40, so I was effectively awarded 2 additional vacation days a year. Any holidays that fell M-Th were banked in my PTO.

When my son was little I was a stay at home Dad monday to thursday. My wife and I never paid for daycare. I was able to get out of all the BS in-law stuff on the weekends. I never dealt with weekend hunters. I got to take my son fishing anytime I wanted. When my mother was dying of pancreatic cancer I had the time I needed to take care of her, take her to the oncologist and chemo, see to it she was fed and ultimately was able to help her live at home until she passed.

They had to pull me off that shift kicking and screaming.

Yes, that is a dedicated weekend shift that I wish more companies would use. There are quite a few people that are more than willing to work weekends for the extra pay, and weekdays off. The night weekend shift is still a tough sell, but it is what it is.

[armoredman]

i work corrections i work 12 hour days 4 on 4 off that is the greatest perk. I take 4 days off equals 12 without having to go in to work.

Greetings brother, been working behind the wire for 20 years now.
We have a 3 on, 4 on schedule. We get paid ALL overtime.

For example, PM Back shift, (back half of the week off), will work first week, Sun/Mon/Tue/Wed 12 hour shifts. Then 3 days off. Then 3 12 hour shifts, Sun/Mn. Tue...and on Wed things get goofy.
You HAVE to have 40 hours on your time card, so the original plc was on the long week, on day 4, you claim 4 hours regular time, then 5 hours over time and 3 hours compensatory time. The comp time translates to basically 4.5 hours of leave/vacation/whatever you wanna call it. Then, on the hort week, you burn 4 hours comp to get your 40, and bank 1/2 hour comp. Since I earn the top rate of annual leave, (vacation), I take all 8 as OT and burn 4 hours AL every pay period, and still end up on top.
Goofy, but we've been doing it for over 5 years now.

[armoredman]

As a FF in a big city I worked 2 10 hour days and 2 14 hour nights. 4 group system. Had a calenderer with groups on it so new year in advance when my group worked.

Day 1 10 hrs off 14 hrs, day 2 10 hours, 48 hrs off, next 14 hour shift, 10 off, 14 hour shift 72 hours off.

Way better than the older 48 hour weeks. We were however on call by recall group for multiple alarms (no extra pay) 1 day and one night (14 hour)

2 Years after I retired dept went to 24 hour shifts no idea how that works but brothers were very happy with it. I could see it be nice in a slow company but I was never in one of them. (to me that would be very BORING)

God made firefighters so COs could have heros - I've had to fight fires in the Navy and in the prison - no WAY do I wanna do that full time!