Hogs and the NOE 311-121-RN

[ElCheapo]

Some time back I called AL at NOE and discussed what bullet to use for hunting hogs with my 300 blackout. I told him I had not been able to get the rifle to feed my preferred flatpoint bullets, and he recommended his 311-121-RN. After some discussion I went with his recommendation and ordered my mold. After load development I settled on a PC'd 311-121-RN in front of 16 grains of AA#9 for just over 2200 fps out of my 16" AR. This weekend I finally got to use them on some hogs and here are the results...

Sunday night I was in my stand when a piglet showed up at about 60 yards. One shot dropped it. Then a half hour later a larger hog (close to 300 pounds) walked up to the piglet and sniffed it. Wanting to give the bullet a good test, I held on the shoulder of this hog. At the shot he squealed and dropped, struggled for a bit then layed still. After another hour a hog started working his way down the hill to my right. When he poked his head out from behind a tree at about 30 yards I shot him in the neck, right in front of the shoulder. He dropped, then flopped around some, coming to rest about 10 yards further down the hill. Once things settled down, I was thinking about calling my friends to come help recover the hogs when I heard a twig snap to my left. This time it was a coyote and he recieved a bullet in the shoulder. He did a quick spin, biting at the wound and then fell dead.

So, I was initially pleased with the bullet performance. Every animal I had the opportunity to shoot died from just one round and with very little fuss. Later, upon inspecting the animals I became aware that on the piglet and coyote penetration had been complete, but on the larger hogs (150 and 300 lbs) neither bullet exited. This may have been due to the fact that my alloy was a 50/50 mix of COWW's and pure lead. I may have been better served with straight COWW alloy, as I much prefer complete penetration so if the animal does not drop quickly there are two holes leaking for a good blood trail.

Anyway, I called Al and shared this experience with him. He appreciated the feedback, stating that this bullet was never really designed to take large hogs. We both felt that something pointier, heavier and made of a tougher alloy was needed to get better penetration on a hog. I decided to purchase another one of his molds and when I get the chance to use it I'll relate the experience here.

So what I found out is, the 311-121-RN is a very useful bullet. It's accurate, recoil is light and it's fun to shoot. It would be entirely adequate at normal woods ranges on thin skinned game like deer, especially with the 50/50 alloy I was using. Penetration was complete, and wound cavities gave evidence of expansion. I feel it's a little light for hogs however, especially larger ones unless you restrict yourself to head shots. My bigger hog (a boar) had a coating of mud on his fur, and this coupled with a serious gristle plate on his shoulder limited the bullet's penetration. This was my first hunting experience with the 300 blackout and I enjoyed it immensely. I'm also grateful to see how these bullets worked and pass that information along to others who may be interested. :)

[ABJ]

Great story and well told. I always love real world experience's involving cast and hunting.
Tony

[versa-06]

Great story & experience I'm sure. Were you using a gas check? I just bought an Ideal 3118 that drops a boolit at 118gr with no check, also have a Lee 311-115-RF that is 120gr w-an alum. check & alox lube. Haven't loaded any 3118's yet, but well pleased with the Lee mold.

[ElCheapo]

Great story & experience I'm sure. Were you using a gas check? I just bought an Ideal 3118 that drops a boolit at 118gr with no check, also have a Lee 311-115-RF that is 120gr w-an alum. check & alox lube. Haven't loaded any 3118's yet, but well pleased with the Lee mold.

No gas checks.

I have the modern equivalent of that mould, the 311008 and I really like it. It works great in the 30-30, giving good accuracy and 2200 fps when pc'd. Took my deer with that very bullet last year.

[skeettx]

Here piggy, piggy, pi-WHAM !!

Great post
Mike

[MarkP]

Excellent post thanks for sharing

[ElCheapo]

Great story and well told. I always love real world experience's involving cast and hunting.
Tony

Thank you Sir, and thanks to everyone else as well!

[WinchesterM1]

Have any pics? What COAL are you loading the 300 too? I use that bullet for 30carbine

[mnewcomb59]

Were you shooting these hogs in PA? Nice hunt! Did you recover the bullets that didn't pass through? If not I would shoot some into water jugs.

Maybe you got lucky and they completely flatten out and hardly penetrate 3 jugs like a varmint bullet, or maybe they have a small, controlled expansion and make it through 5-6 jugs. If you get 5 jugs I would use it as is, or if you get less than 5 jugs and really wide expansion I would toughen up the alloy. As velocity drops penetration will increase, so a 50 yard shot will give more penetration than a 5 yard shot.I would check it at high speed right off the end of the muzzle to let you know how far it will penetrate in a worst case scenario.

[quilbilly]

One thing I found a few years back doing terminal performance testing on round nose boolits in 30 caliber is that ones over 150 gr tended to tumble in the media after penetrating about 5-6 inches. When they tumbled, they made a huge wound channel that veered wildly. I never tested any smaller boolits. The media was soaked, compressed phone books and MV's were about 16-1700 fps. What you saw may be what was happening on your smaller targets as well as the big one.

[ElCheapo]

Have any pics? What COAL are you loading the 300 too? I use that bullet for 30carbine

Sorry, I've been processing pork so I haven't had time to answer!

The only pic I have is the typical hero shot of me with the pigs and coyote. A friend took it and sent it to me on my phone. I have to figure out how to get it on my computer and post it here.

COAL is 1.822.

[ElCheapo]

Were you shooting these hogs in PA? Nice hunt! Did you recover the bullets that didn't pass through? If not I would shoot some into water jugs.

Maybe you got lucky and they completely flatten out and hardly penetrate 3 jugs like a varmint bullet, or maybe they have a small, controlled expansion and make it through 5-6 jugs. If you get 5 jugs I would use it as is, or if you get less than 5 jugs and really wide expansion I would toughen up the alloy. As velocity drops penetration will increase, so a 50 yard shot will give more penetration than a 5 yard shot.I would check it at high speed right off the end of the muzzle to let you know how far it will penetrate in a worst case scenario.

I have a friend in South Carolina who is a nuisance wildlife control officer. When there is a pig problem he lets me know and I try to make it down. This time it paid off!

On the 150 pound hog I found pieces of the bullet and the bullet base. It came apart when it hit heavy shoulder bones and neck vertebrae. I am definitely going to a tougher alloy along with a pointier, heavier bullet.

[ElCheapo]

One thing I found a few years back doing terminal performance testing on round nose boolits in 30 caliber is that ones over 150 gr tended to tumble in the media after penetrating about 5-6 inches. When they tumbled, they made a huge wound channel that veered wildly. I never tested any smaller boolits. The media was soaked, compressed phone books and MV's were about 16-1700 fps. What you saw may be what was happening on your smaller targets as well as the big one.

These hogs were healthy and well fed. They had thick hides and lots of fat underneath. Velocity was around 2200 fps at the muzzle and the bullets penetrated straight in until they hit heavy bone and then stopped. I'm going to use heavier bullets that are PC'd COWW alloy instead of the 50/50 mix of wheelweights and pure lead.

[popper]

My BO pig load is a 145gr PB PCd FN about COWW with some Cu added, pushed about 2k fps. I tried soft 185gr from 30/30 and got only entrance hole in shoulder. My alloy in 40sw went tail to snout and broke front leg on 130# hog. Fired into rock bank, no frag.

[bsev81]

Good information and great story telling. What part of South Carolina, I just started hog hunting this year in Kershaw county. Bagged one 200 pound boar and I was hooked, talk about good eating!
I have the NOE HTC310-135 I might have to give a whirl the next time I get the opportunity.
Thanks for sharing!

[lar45]

What kind of accuracy are you getting at 2200fps?
I tried to get cast to shoot in Mt 7.62x39 AR Pistol but was never able to make it happen.
I never did try any bullets lighter than 150gn. My barrel is a .308" groove with 10" twist.

[ElCheapo]

Good information and great story telling. What part of South Carolina, I just started hog hunting this year in Kershaw county. Bagged one 200 pound boar and I was hooked, talk about good eating!
I have the NOE HTC310-135 I might have to give a whirl the next time I get the opportunity.
Thanks for sharing!

My friend is in North Augusta. Aiken county area.

[ElCheapo]

What kind of accuracy are you getting at 2200fps?
I tried to get cast to shoot in Mt 7.62x39 AR Pistol but was never able to make it happen.
I never did try any bullets lighter than 150gn. My barrel is a .308" groove with 10" twist.

I'm getting one inch groups at 50 yards. Good enough!

[yeahbub]

I tried soft 185gr from 30/30 and got only entrance hole in shoulder.

Popper, when you say you got only an entrance hole, do you mean it just didn't exit or was it a non-fatal flesh wound on entry? I assume you collected the hog and found it was a failure to exit, but I hear so much about heavy bone structure in hogs that it's not impossible to imagine a dead-soft boolit going to pieces without brining the hog down. I've gone to paper patching 1:1 WW:soft lead in .30's and anticipate no problem in deer, but hogs are a possibility, maybe elk, if the hunt permit fairy waves her wand.

[popper]

It was a recently 'dead' 150ish# boar (some 9mm and then 40sw to the head). Shot in gut and got pass through, not in shoulder. IIRC, soft alloy 185gr FP & 29gr 3031. Exit on gut shot was ~45 size. Shot from 3-4 ft., marlin 30/30. Hog was towed intact to coyote pile. I won't use soft alloy on hogs.

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve cast and shot thousands of the Lee .311” 160gr Pt.GC bullet! 6cav, 2-cav and older 1-cav molds.
Never considered to use it to hunt with.

My .300BO upper feeds the Lee .309” 150gr FNGC perfectly! At 1,750fps, for .300BO purposes, it’s perfect!
I typically used COWW, +2% 95/5 lead free solder. From a .30/30 @2,200 FPS, @158gr, they equal or exceed factory ammo.
I’m now powder coating...

[Kosh75287]

121 gr. at 2200 is slightly inferior to the .30 AK round, which isn't world-reknown for it's "game dropping" properties (except perhaps in barrages?). I'm guessing the far more surgical accuracy with which your projectiles hit has much to do with the round's efficacy. It is commendable performance for any rifle/shooter combination.
I've been accused of being overly conservative about such matters, but I would have wanted 25 - 50% more bullet mass at that velocity for use on wild boar, just to fend off Murphy and his laws (and my sometimes "minute of gallon milk jug" marksmanship).
A friend and "shade tree gunsmith of my acquaintance once took an already-mutilated Argentine Mauser, rebarrelled it with a .358" barrel ("I don't KNOW why, don't ask!" were HIS words), and christened it a "9.1x53mm Sedgewicke". On cartridge work-up, we found it to deliver ballistics slightly ahead of the .348 Winchester and crowding the .358 Win., with hard-cast 200 gr. and heavier bullets. It was a "Hawg Thumper" (again, HIS words) out to 200 yards (the greatest distance at which he attempted a shot).
I never hunted with the beast, but it was far more pleasant to shoot than expected, given its military buttstock, and the bullet masses/velocities it disposed. I used to kid him that it should be re-christened the "Sedgewicke COE Mortar", though the trajectory was not QUITE that bad.
Anyway, off-topic, but smile-provoking story about hog-hunting rifles.

[ElCheapo]

I’ve cast and shot thousands of the Lee .311” 160gr Pt.GC bullet! 6cav, 2-cav and older 1-cav molds.
Never considered to use it to hunt with.

My .300BO upper feeds the Lee .309” 150gr FNGC perfectly! At 1,750fps, for .300BO purposes, it’s perfect!
I typically used COWW, +2% 95/5 lead free solder. From a .30/30 @2,200 FPS, @158gr, they equal or exceed factory ammo.
I’m now powder coating...

Powder coating makes gas checks unnecessary up to about 2250 fps in my experience.

[ElCheapo]

121 gr. at 2200 is slightly inferior to the .30 AK round, which isn't world-reknown for it's "game dropping" properties (except perhaps in barrages?). I'm guessing the far more surgical accuracy with which your projectiles hit has much to do with the round's efficacy. It is commendable performance for any rifle/shooter combination.
I've been accused of being overly conservative about such matters, but I would have wanted 25 - 50% more bullet mass at that velocity for use on wild boar, just to fend off Murphy and his laws (and my sometimes "minute of gallon milk jug" marksmanship).
A friend and "shade tree gunsmith of my acquaintance once took an already-mutilated Argentine Mauser, rebarrelled it with a .358" barrel ("I don't KNOW why, don't ask!" were HIS words), and christened it a "9.1x53mm Sedgewicke". On cartridge work-up, we found it to deliver ballistics slightly ahead of the .348 Winchester and crowding the .358 Win., with hard-cast 200 gr. and heavier bullets. It was a "Hawg Thumper" (again, HIS words) out to 200 yards (the greatest distance at which he attempted a shot).
I never hunted with the beast, but it was far more pleasant to shoot than expected, given its military buttstock, and the bullet masses/velocities it disposed. I used to kid him that it should be re-christened the "Sedgewicke COE Mortar", though the trajectory was not QUITE that bad.
Anyway, off-topic, but smile-provoking story about hog-hunting rifles.

Ordered this one...

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-moulds/308-311/308-135-rn-g4/

Longer and heavier, but could be a tad undersized at .308 diameter which is fine. I'll be PCing this bullet so the lube groove is unnecessary. I'll remove it and gain some weight and diameter in the process. Probably end up at around 137 to 140 grains and I should be able to get 2200 fps from this one as well. I'm thinking a heavier bullet made of a tougher alloy along with the pointy nose shape should get better penetration.

[ElCheapo]

Hero shot...

300446

[versa-06]

Looks like 2-Freezer Fillers, & a little BBQ.

[Digital Dan]

Hogs aren’t hard to kill but placement is key with low power rounds. I’ve whacked over 150 with .22CB shorts, one shot each save for one that required two. My current hog killer is .30 caliber, 180 gr subsonic and suppressed. It works just as well.

[ElCheapo]

Well, I got my new mold from NOE.:smile: Bullet diameter out of the mold with my alloy was .310, with powder coating adding to that which is nice. It tried shooting some of them, but nothing hit the paper at 50 yards! Bearing surface with this bullet is lacking, which isn't surprising since it was originally designed for 30 caliber airgun! As expected I'll have to modify the mold to get the performance I want. Should be totally worth it as these are great looking bullets! I love the nose shape and they should feed as well or better than the roundnoses I used. My goal is 2200 fps with accuracy. We'll see!

[ChristopherO]

Looking forward to your next field report.