Pieatta 1858 Remington Cap and Ball

[Hossfly]

Wow knew you had to clean the cylinder, Barrel,and pull nipples. But didnt think about the internals, untill at 300 shots over 3 months the (hand) stopped coming out to spin the cylinder.

Disassembled the entire thing and lousy, what a corrosive nasty mess. Hand spring completely disappeared. Guess it was the thinist spring in there. Luckily that was all that was eat up.

Ordered new one from Dixie, got entire works cleaned and ready for more fun. This stuff is so corrosion prone, makes me want to just clean it up and just look at it.

Also those Italian screws are made from some of the softest metal I’ve ever seen.

If you’ve fired one of these with real black, best you learn how to disassemble it completely before too much time goes by, or you will end up with a mess.

[gpidaho]

Hossfly: The screws are indeed very soft and total takedown and cleaning are required after a good range session. Helps somewhat to use the conversion cylinder for cartridges but blackpowder residue still works it's way into the action. Gp

[Gtek]

Just curious- what is the barrel to cylinder dimension?

[farmbif]

I have an 1851 navy and have the same corrosion problems. I dont mess with cap and ball pistols anymore as a result. in my case I figure its the goex. ii pulled the gun apart and scrubbed it after use and it still corrodes covered in oil.

[gpidaho]

Just curious- what is the barrel to cylinder dimension? Sorry Gtek, I sold my 1858 to Bedbugbilly maybe he'll chime in. As an aside, I'm your new part time neighbor. Just put an RV at the DIL's fish camp.(Google Oak Hill fish camp) for a look. Gp

[Nobade]

Strange, I have never had any corrosion problems with revolvers when shooting real black powder and commercial caps. I normally clean the bore, cylinder, and outside and hose down the action with spray Ballistol. I'll detail strip them maybe once a year for a good cleaning and inspection but everything still looks like new. Now Pyrodex on the other hand... I ruined a nice revolver with that stuff by not giving it a full strip and clean back a long time ago when I didn't know any better. But black powder - keep it wet with oil and it doesn't rust since it can't absorb any water.

[36g]

Ballistol is your best friend...

[Gtek]

Well, welcome to big Florida! Your a little over an hour north but we welcome new blood to help feed our vast mosquito herds here in the flatland. Been that way a few, hopefully still quiet and peaceful in that area on your quest.

[indian joe]

I have an 1851 navy and have the same corrosion problems. I dont mess with cap and ball pistols anymore as a result. in my case I figure its the goex. ii pulled the gun apart and scrubbed it after use and it still corrodes covered in oil.

must be the weather !

I have a pocket model x.36 and a 1851 x.45

If I shoot once a week at club I might do a complete pull down a couple times a year. Keep plenty oil in the innards.

Regular clean I pull and wash the cylinder and barrel assembly and re oil after every shoot - dont pull the nipples just back em out an eigth of a turn to make sure they not froze up.

But never put water near the frame nor anything with water in - no moose milk or such like - if theres crud - brass brush gets it off and more oil keeps things good

at $16 a tin I dont cap off anymore - before I head off to shoot I wipe the cylinders dry with a patch, blow the nipples out with the air compressor.

[indian joe]

Ballistol is your best friend...

That stuff is water soluble - might be good but I would not put it in the innards of a BP pistol that was not squeaky clean - powder residue + water vapour = rusty gun
moose milk same same - I use moose milk, its the best patch lube for a round ball gun, but not gonna put it down the guts of my pistol, no sir!

[Bent Ramrod]

I take off the nipples, cylinder and barrel of my cap&ball revolvers, wipe them inside and out with Ballistol/water patches. I do the same to the outside of the frame and what I can reach in the internals with patches and Q-Tips.

Then the loose parts are coated with Ballistol itself, inside and out, and reassembled. The frame and what I can reach of the works gets the same straight Ballistol wipe. I have a spray can of Ballistol with the red tube and direct a spray or two into the hand slot, down between the cocked hammer and the frame, and into the bolt window. I grease the arbor/cylinder axle and put it all back together for next time.

Once a year or so I take the gun completely apart and wipe the internals down the same way. The spaces are typically full of a black goo that’s a mixture of BP fouling and Ballistol. It’s a mess, but it has never rusted anything, and doesn’t even affect the case colors.

Marvelous stuff, Ballistol. I used to have to take the revolvers completely apart after every shooting session, wash the pieces in hot water/dish detergent, rinse, dry, oil and grease everything, put it all back together and then take a shower myself.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey everyone, barrel to cylinder gap should run .002 to .006. Any of these black powder revolvers can benefit from an action shield. Another trick is to pack the innards with hi temp wheel bearing grease. I have some thoughts about these pistols to pass along, especially about the Colt replicas. Uberti has never fixed the short arbor or cylinder pin where it goes into the barrel assembly. Pietta fixed it for the most part but they still have one slip through from time to time. Almost all of them are timed late as to full cock lock up. The short arbor is a must fix on the big horse pistols such as the Walkers and Dragoons, these guys will try to self destruct shooting full capacity loads. Dragoon45 and myself offer services to correct and tune these guns.

[Hellgate]

Pretty much what Nobade said. Keep the innards oiled or even hose them with WD-40. I had a '61 Navy that I could not get the trigger spring screw loose to do a full tear down so after punching the barrel and cylinder I would hose the innards with WD-40 and put it away. After about 5 years and a couple thousand rounds I figured how to get the screw out and all there was in the works was a lot of black sludge, a couple cap fragments and NO RUST at all. So I only do a complete tear down maybe once a year and if all nipples fire reliably I coat the threads with anti seize and never again remove them unless I do a complete replacement.

[sharps4590]

Jackrabbit, if they're late to lock up, the hand is too short? So you have to replace it and fit a new one? Am I....uhh...assuming correctly?

[Hossfly]

Hey everyone, barrel to cylinder gap should run .002 to .006. Any of these black powder revolvers can benefit from an action shield. Another trick is to pack the innards with hi temp wheel bearing grease. I have some thoughts about these pistols to pass along, especially about the Colt replicas. Uberti has never fixed the short arbor or cylinder pin where it goes into the barrel assembly. Pietta fixed it for the most part but they still have one slip through from time to time. Almost all of them are timed late as to full cock lock up. The short arbor is a must fix on the big horse pistols such as the Walkers and Dragoons, these guys will try to self destruct shooting full capacity loads. Dragoon45 and myself offer services to correct and tune these guns.
Question, the hand-spring, is the small spring just pressed in? Kinda like the hammer main spring except with out the tension screw?

[Gtek]

The hand spring is usually an arched flat spring staked into slot on hand. Later some were modified removing flat spring which breaks often enough for some and then install a spring and plunger through frame under top strap. I reached the point that all the Italian retro's are a kit gun, they can certainly be a box of chocolate!

[Jackrabbit1957]

Jackrabbit, if they're late to lock up, the hand is too short? So you have to replace it and fit a new one? Am I....uhh...assuming correctly?

Not necessarily, it can be stretched slightly but by far the easiest way for me is build it back up with a small spot weld, then bring it back into spec by filing and stoning.

[Jackrabbit1957]

The hand spring is usually an arched flat spring staked into slot on hand. Later some were modified removing flat spring which breaks often enough for some and then install a spring and plunger through frame under top strap. I reached the point that all the Italian retro's are a kit gun, they can certainly be a box of chocolate! You're correct on all counts! I install the plunger and spring setup similar to what Ruger does as part of a full on tune. It gets real interesting on the pocket models due to the small parts and internal geometry.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Tightening or loosening a screw is not gonna fix a problem. These are small machines designed to run with parts held by screws and pins. Screws are meant to be tightened to a certain value and not fiddled with unless it's meant to be an adjustment screw. That bolt spring screw was never intended to be an adjustment screw. If the timing is late, fix it right and be done with it.

[Hellgate]

It would be better to get a lighter or stronger spring rather than have a trigger/bolt screw unsnugged. What keeps it from working loose and falling out? I'd recommend changing out the spring (or bending a wing) and keep the screw snug. If you need the bolt to come up earlier you need to ever-so-slightly shorten the bolt arm that rides over the hammer cam.

[Gtek]

I suspect more than one screw has been loosened.

[Hossfly]

I think that hand spring on mine was just too thin IDK. Measured thickness around .011 of what was left. New one should be in this week. Think I’ll try some LPS 3, after and during reassembly to maybe stop any future rust issues. It leaves a wax residue after it dries, but looks nasty at first. Y’all think that would be a good idea or no?

[derek45]

All part of the fun

GOEX is far better than pyroxex

300083

[Jackrabbit1957]

Won't hurt anything, my oil of choice is reclaimed refrigerant compressor oil. Got a gallon of it 10 years ago and still have 3/4 of it. Seems like good stuff.

[Hossfly]

Won't hurt anything, my oil of choice is reclaimed refrigerant compressor oil. Got a gallon of it 10 years ago and still have 3/4 of it. Seems like good stuff.

If that oil is clear, prolly mineral oil. We used a lot of that in Industrial refrigeration. Had gallons of it left when I retired. We used LPS 3 to protect metal from rusting after cleaning, kinda left a waxed feel to the surface. We also used it on the 106 Recoiless Rifles after cleaning, looked bad but kept from rusting.

[Hossfly]

Won't hurt anything, my oil of choice is reclaimed refrigerant compressor oil. Got a gallon of it 10 years ago and still have 3/4 of it. Seems like good stuff.

If that oil is clear, prolly mineral oil. We used a lot of that in Industrial refrigeration. Had gallons of it left when I retired. We used LPS 3 to protect metal from rusting after cleaning, kinda left a waxed feel to the surface. We also used it on the 106 Recoiless Rifles after cleaning, looked bad but kept from rusting.

[derek45]

I like BALLISTOL / Moose Milk

https://i.imgur.com/oebXE9q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0O3NOqy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5LIQc0C.jpg

[Jackrabbit1957]

Nice collection of revolvers! Are they Pietta or Uberti?

[derek45]

Nice collection of revolvers! Are they Pietta or Uberti?

1860 Army is a Pietta I bought from cabelas several years ago. it had timing issues, the bolt was peening the cylinder notches. I learned how to fix it.

the Remington is a Pietta I got from cabelas a few years ago. it’s perfect

the 1851 London Navy is an Uberti I picked up from Midwayusa last year. it’s by far the best of the bunch

the Colts had reliablility issues until I put in SLIXSHOT nipples

the Rem has been reliable “as is”

[Hellgate]

I looked up the MSDS sheet on Ballistol several years back and found it was mostly mineral oil with some additives (some obscure alcohol IIRC) to make it partially water soluble.

[Jackrabbit1957]

1860 Army is a Pietta I bought from cabelas several years ago. it had timing issues, the bolt was peening the cylinder notches. I learned how to fix it.

the Remington is a Pietta I got from cabelas a few years ago. it’s perfect

the 1851 London Navy is an Uberti I picked up from Midwayusa last year. it’s by far the best of the bunch

the Colts had reliablility issues until I put in SLIXSHOT nipples

the Rem has been reliable “as is” Did you fix the arbor on the Uberti? The last ones I tuned had really nice internal parts and were almost tuned, like they started to tune it and quit halfway through. They've never corrected the short arbor.

[Hossfly]

Finally got the new hand and spring combo yesterday and reassembled. Took out to home range and fired 24 rounds to get POI set since I filed front sight down 1/4”. Everything working now perfectly. Field stripped and cleaned. Coated all internal springs with LPS 3. Will recheck after about 1 month.

[johnsonian09]

I never clean my internals I just check them. Probably once every 3 or 4 range trips so every 150-200 shots or 4 months. they are never rusty. Or dirty from powder fowling.

What I do is clean everything. Thin coat of bore butter, even on screw threads. Reassemble but leave off brass trigger guard. Pack all openings with a bit of off brand crisco from Wally World. Install trigger guard. Work the action. Leave on half cock, Smear adjust the white crisco so all openings are closed and leave like that in the holster for awhile. The crisco will rubberize kinda and make a seal so the fowling doesn’t get in. Powder sits on top of the crisco and sticks to it. But I’ve never had a hand, trigger or that 2 prong spring rust. Just change out the crisco. The fowling will never get to the innards but the action will stiffen after 4months or so because the grease spoils.

These guns were run on lead, BP, hot water maybe a little soap, and animal fat/ beeswax. At the time they didn’t have all these chemical products. Not saying the don’t work. I just haven’t tried them. All the frontiersmen and soldiers that had cap and ball guns couldn’t afford to let their lively hood rust up in the middle of the plains on a cattle drive because they didn’t have oil or something to clean it with.


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[Jackrabbit1957]

Another trick is to pack the internal cavities with hi temp bearing grease such as Mobil 1. I have done this on all my revolvers and it saves a ton of work. The grease stops the powder fouling from getting into the action plus keeps things lubricated. Clean up is clean the barrel, cylinder and outer frame...done. Once a year detail strip and clean, repack it with grease and shoot for another year.