44-265-LBT-GC boolit, another aproach

[Onty]

Recently, I found the post that considerably changed my view on hunting load for 44 cal. revolver, and boolit for it. Here is extract from noted post, written by respected hunter and shooter Terry Murbach:

"...I DO KNOW I CAN RUN 300gr BULLETS AT 1100FPS FROM ALL MY 45COLT SIXGUNS INCLUDING THE COLT AND S&W M25-5 GUNS OF VARIOUS BARREL LENGTHS WITH LOADS THAT ARE STRAIGHT OUT OF THE LAST FEW SPEER MANUALS.
A 45 CALIBER 300gr LFN BULLET AT 1100 WILL COMPLETELY PENETRATE ANY ANIMAL IN NORTH AMERICA AND YOU NEED NOTHING ELSE. MORE SPEED MAY FLATTEN THE TRAJECTORY A BIT-- darned LITTLE TOO AS A MATTER OF FACT-- BUT ALL YOU ARE DOING AT 1100 OR 1300 IS POKING A 45 CALIBER HOLE IN AND A 45 CALIBER HOLE OUT.

THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS TO ME IS THE FACT THAT A 454424 KEITH BULLET AT THE SAME SPEEDS--1050 TO 1100-- DOES THE SAME WORK AND DOES IT AT EVEN LOWER PRESSURES. THIRTY SIX YEARS AGO I PUT FIVE TONS OF MEAT ON THE GROUND WITH THE KEITH LOAD FROM A RUGER 45COLT 4 5/8" SIXGUN [ 1075FPS FROM THIS GUN ] AND NEVER RECOVERED A SINGLE BULLET. THEY WENT COMPLETELY THROUGH FROM EVERY CONCEIVABLE ANGLE INCLUDING FROM STRAIGHT ABOVE.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY HEAVIER BULLETS OF ANY KIND IN THE 45COLT CARTRIDGE"

https://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=19554 , posted Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:31 pm

James Gates wrote: When we get to this point, it is the Meplat Area that counts. Whole thread about meplat https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?48098-Gates-Extreme-Meplat-Bullets

In respect of statements above, I started thinking "what if" we apply same principals from Terry Murbach's load 454424 at 1100 fps and transfer to something for 44 Magnum or heavy loaded 44 Special. So, if we have same weight and meplat dia on 44 boolit like they are on 454424, omit SWC design and go to LBT, here is something that, at least, we can talk about:

https://i.imgur.com/iWQTmNB.jpg

Since intention is to use this boolit primarily for hunting, I included a gas check for better accuracy and to eliminate/reduce leading.

Please let me know what is your opinion about suggested boolit. If something similar was already designed, let us know. Thanks!

[RickinTN]

I would be interested in something like that for a light load in my 444 Marlin.
Rick

[Onty]

I would be interested in something like that for a light load in my 444 Marlin.
Rick
What about crimp groove to meplat length, is.420" OK for 444 Marlin?

[RickinTN]

I'm not sure as I'm travelling and don't have my reference books with me nor any brass and measuring devices. The big question would be however where does the ogive intersect the throat of my rifle. I can crimp anywhere with a Lee factory crimp die.
Rick

PS If it comes to be a hollow point option would be great.

[Onty]

As for crimp groove to meplat length, from what I found, 444 Marlin is calling for .350" (2.57" OAL). Hornady lists 2.62" OAL. I am afraid this boolit is too long on front end to be used in 444 Marlin. Unless some rifles are modified to take longer OAL round. One way would be to trim cases on 2.20".

Regarding front driving band, since this boolit is designed for revolver, I made front driving band .100" long. I would suggest, once you are back home, assembly one dummy round with plain base 44 bullet but put base front, lave it .110" sticking out from the case, and try to insert it into chamber.

Yeah, I can talk to Miha from MP Molds and ask his opinion about possibility of offering this boolit also as HP version.

[phaessler]

Quite a while ago I was hooked on the Gates type large meplat designs, drew up this one and had Tom at Accurate make me a 2-cav. Hits like a freight train from a 7.5" Redhawk and a good load of 2400, same load was cutting clover leaf from my Marlin 1894, but feeding the big meplat thru a stock ramp was always rough feeling. Perhaps the slight decrease in meplat as well as the nose length change would correct what I was feeling.
Always interested in another .44 mold too.....

Pete

299957

[Onty]

@phaessler,

Thank you for this crucial information for 444 Marlin shooters. Seems to me that requirements for 444 are smaller meplat, something like .280" for reliable feeding, and some sort of HP design, in order to compensate for reduced meplat. Also, meplat to crimp groove distance and boolit front end (driving band) are issues that need to be addressed for each firearm. What's a good design for revolver, quite possible could be a problem for 444.

Considering everything, requirements for revolver boolit and 444 Marlin are quite different, and blending them will create boolit that most likely wouldn't work well in both types of firearms. In that respect, I think it's better to keep revolver boolit and 444 Marlin one as two separate designs.

[Onty]

Here is plane base version of boolit above:

https://i.imgur.com/M1IW4F1.jpg

I put on a first version gas check since primary intention is to use it as a hunting boolit. Also, if somebody wants to go full throttle, gas check is there with all its benefits. Gas check is small inconvenience and cost, negligible considering overall efforts and cost when going hunting. However, the fact is that for plinking and 1100 fps gas check isn't need.

[bluejay75]

Onty…I knew there was something I liked about you! Excellent. Count me in for two as is.

[phaessler]

@phaessler,

Thank you for this crucial information for 444 Marlin shooters. Seems to me that requirements for 444 are smaller meplat, something like .280" for reliable feeding, and some sort of HP design, in order to compensate for reduced meplat. Also, meplat to crimp groove distance and boolit front end (driving band) are issues that need to be addressed for each firearm. What's a good design for revolver, quite possible could be a problem for 444.

Considering everything, requirements for revolver boolit and 444 Marlin are quite different, and blending them will create boolit that most likely wouldn't work well in both types of firearms. In that respect, I think it's better to keep revolver boolit and 444 Marlin one as two separate designs.

Just to touch this again, the rifle in question was not a 444, its a 44Mag.