Long range .30cal bullet mold for hunting

[Wolfdog91]

Say a guy wanted to use cast at long range for hunting 400yd average shot. Southern white tails taking CNS shots only .30cal .308 ,30-06 ect. What would be y'alls mold of choice? Edit, this is just purely "what if". Already have two rifle with loads worked up with jacketed I can easily keep the my 4" going swinging with at that distance. Just asking what if trying to have some fun is all.
BTW when I say CNS I'm referring to a High shoulder shot which all the long range hunters I talk to refer to as a CNS shot because well technically it is.


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[Budzilla 19]

Wolf dog, I’ve used the Lee C312-1552r boolit in 308, and 30/06, both with excellent results! Powder coated, gas checked, sized to .310”. Worked awesome @465 yards on a 8” gong. Good luck to you whatever way you go.

Imr 4895 in the .308, Scot Brigadier 4831 in the ‘06.

[Bigslug]

As one who wasted his youth in NRA Highpower matches, I would say "certainly nothing cast".

For shot placement in brain or spine at that kind of range, you're needing a load that is significantly sub-MOA in terms of just dispersion.

Then with the velocities you're likely going to achieve with cast, you'll have a rainbow trajectory that will probably require you to correctly know the range down to within no more than 25 yards - maybe as little as 10.

And due to the peculiarities of how cast behaves in the bore, you'll be shooting a relatively blunt-nosed, flat-based bullet which will be much more affected by wind than a Sierra Matchking.

Your "easily achieved" high levels of accuracy will be found in the 1700-2000fps range where drop and wind drift will be greater. Without some REALLY weird science, cast bullet loads for a .30-06 or .308 are going to be closer in performance (speed) to the jacketed loads for the .30-30 or .30-40 Krag (the 311299 is hard to beat for this lower speed range). Go take a look at my "The Components of Going Faster" thread to get a feel for what trying to keep .30-06 speeds with cast requires. I'm starting to dabble in that, and it's no joke when I say it's very much like the 1940's challenge of trying to figure out how to get a fighter plane past the sound barrier.

Is it do-able? Well, yeah, but what you're proposing is a hard shot for a true sniper rig using jacketed match bullets. Factor that into your expectations.

I'd be inclined to work up a 311299 accuracy load around 2000 fps and learn to lob that sucker - - - keeping in mind that it's a round nose, not a tissue-crushing flat point, and that badly-placed head shots can lead to some badly injured deer that will likely be lost and die poorly.

[Wolfdog91]

Hmm well that's interesting, seems A CNS shot is Abit of a different thing to different folks ,my apologies, think high shoulder shot would have been more applicable, most of the long range guy I talk to refer to this as a CNS when it come to deer how ever. Yeah head shooting a deer @400yd isn't something I really feel comfortable with at all. Now hitting this style of shot https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220504/3fc59a032f9c1fbc15e813d538661968.jpg

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[Larry Gibson]

Say a guy wanted to use cast at long range for hunting 400yd average shot. Southern white tails taking CNS shots only .30cal .308 ,30-06 ect. What would be y'alls mold of choice?

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I shoot a lot of LR (300+ yards) with cast bullets in different 30 calibers and have killed quite a few deer with 30 caliber cast bullets. Bigslug mentions many of the probable problems with what you "want" to do. Keep in mind many times what we "want" to do and what we can or should be doing are two different things. Also, to quote Dirty harry, "a man's got to know his limitation".

With normal 10 or even 12" twist 30 cal rifles with a cast bullet pushed to 2000 fps+/- I consider 200 yards as being the maximum effective range and that's with a larger 6" diameter heart area shot. I have developed a potential 300 yards (heart area shot placement) with the 311041HP at 2500 fps out of my 14" twist 308W. Have not had a chance to test it yet but accuracy, retained velocity and terminal effect at 300 yards in wetpack appears good.

I suggest, if you want to CNS shoot the smaller southern whitetails at 400 yards you buy or get a very accurate rifle built and using quality jacketed bullets you can hold moa or less at that 400 yards. Personally I wouldn't try it and I also wasted a lot of my youth on NRA Highpower matches.

Okay, with that high shoulder shot be able to hold and hit that 1 1/4 moa target with every shot at that 400 yard range.

[popper]

Yup, 400 is pretty long for anything at an animal. I figure 200 max with cast (or anything for me) out of 308. IIRC 300 is the Mil expectation of combat. And you get another target if that didn't work, sometimes.

[Rich/WIS]

IME you're aiming too high. The area below your aim point, about midway up will put the bullet through both heart/major blood vessels and lungs. This shot has put most of the deer I've taken down either on the spot or they were dead within a few yards, and the blood trail was easy to follow in heavy brush. At 400 yards, unless the deer is in a picked field, it will be difficult to find the spot it was standing when you shot, so a lot of blood will be a big help finding the spot and recovering the animal.

[MOA]

This is what I use for long distance in 30-06 & 30-40 krag.

299770

[405grain]

Hey Wolfdog: There's a couple of things that just aren't right about what you're trying to achieve. First off about the only way your going to be able to get up to the higher velocities that could make this shot possible with cast bullets might be to go with paper patching. Then there's the aerodynamics that would require a bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient, which wouldn't be the best shape for a cast hunting bullet. The expectations of accuracy at that range aren't realistic unless you factor in drop over range, wind drift, dispersion, the motion of the intended target, and you brought a quality bench rest with you to the woods.

There's debate as to if shooting long range at big game is ethical or not. I'm not going to address this, but I will say that a skilled hunter should be able to stalk much closer to the game without being detected. It takes patience, experience and skill to close the distance without the game seeing, hearing or smelling the hunter. Being a skilled hunter and making a better shot is, in my opinion, more desirable than trying to strike from extreme distance.

A high shoulder shot should damage the spinal column and paralyze the quarry so that it is incapable of running away after being shot. The problem with a high shoulder shot is that it damages a lot of meat. I helped a buddy clean a deer after he'd done a broadside high shoulder shot on a blacktail deer with a 30-06. There's a lot of bone in this area and the impact caused a huge amount of high velocity bone fragments to turn both shoulders to useless mush. In my experience it's better to try for a heart/lung shot. In reality, after hiking up hills and over valleys carrying rifle, canteen, and pack, when the quarry suddenly presents it's self, that usually means an offhand shot while trying to control breathing. A long stalk to shoot from a more stable position at an unaware animal is a better choice, but animals don't always follow the script. In those real life instance a "center of mass" heart lung shot is often the best that you can do.

For a cast boolit deer hunting load in 30-06 my first choice would be the RCBS 30-180-FN. This boolit has a long bearing surface, a large meplat, is heavy (usually cast at around 190 grains), and has been accurate in both my 30-06 and 308 Win. A second choice would be the Lyman 311284, but it has a round nose which may have less shocking power than a flat nose. The velocity that I'd recommend should be around 1900 fps. Ammunition in this configuration should be effective at ranges out to 150 yards. (Most deer shot in the United States are taken at a range of less than 100 yards). This would be an excellent hunting combination.

If you want to try long range hunting I can think of no better choice than to get or build an accurate varmint rifle and shoot jacketed ammunition at ground hogs, prairie dogs, rock chucks, or sage rats (ground squirrels). Doing this will help you to develop good long range shooting skills like range estimation, doping the wind, breath control, and improved reloading techniques.

[charlie b]

If you have not shot game at that kind of range with jacketed I'd recommend you not try it with cast. Shooting at a range is a lot different than field shooting.

[MT Gianni]

For me, anything over 250 is a jacket bullet. Maybe over 200. I hunt private property with no trespassing on either side. I expect my shots to be between sundown and the 30 minutes of legal shooting time after that. If the animal takes 1/2 step between the time you pull the trigger and the bullet arrives you have a high lung shot and a tracking situation.
If I was in a blind with a solid rest at a time when I had that shot and only that shot I would want jacketed. Much of hunting is knowing when not to shoot.

[lar45]

I'm from Idaho and understand cross canyon shots, forests, and stalking opportunities.
I'm currently in Arkansas where almost none of that applies. The undergrowth where my lease is, is THICK and full of thorny vines and blackberry thick nasty, tear your jeans stuff.
Spot and stalk does not apply here. I have a box on stilts that I sit in and watch down some long mowed lanes. I hang surveyors tape at 100, 200, and 300yds on the side of the lane, so estimating range can be done quickly. The end of my long lane is 350yds.
Back in Idaho I've taken several muledeer at around the 500yd mark with a 25-06, all 1 shot kills. So I should be able to handle 350.
If I was going to hunt deer at long range with cast, I would use my 14twist 30-06. It will hold sub 1" groups for 10 shots from around 2450-2800ish. The only downside is it's a custom rifle, ie $$.

[megasupermagnum]

4" wont cut it on a shoulder shot. If you hit the shoulder plate, I can only imagine it will slow a deer down, but may not be fatal. They can run surprisingly well with a busted leg. To truly disable a deer, you need to hit the joint (and/or spine), which is more like a 2" target at best. I don't care how good of a shooter you are, a 2" target at 400 yards just is not reasonable. The shoulder shot is the best for guys with small properties, states that don't let you track, and jerks for neighbors. It's also decent if you are hunting an area where a deer running at all is bad news. All of those involve close range shots. In these cases, I'm more a fan of neck shots myself.

Everybody I've ever known who was good at longer shots, it is heart/lung only. That gives you a good 8" circle to hit.

[M-Tecs]

Wolf dog, most people overestimate the size of a whitetail. As pointed out that shot at that distance is not realistic. Your target is maybe 2 inches max.

299923 I took this one with a bow and it scored 129 and it field dressed at 163

299924 this is just a pic of the web.

299925 This states it well.

[DonHowe]

I have not shot or shot at game at 400yds with either cast or jacketed bullets. I have done a considerable amount of shooting at "steel animals" at that distance with cast bullets at black powder velocity.
I have seen cast bullet rifles, even at low velocity, shoot fairly impressive groups at 400yds. But it takes an accurate rifle and loads plus a GOOD shooter willing to shoot in varying conditions. NRA High Power competition is a good place to learn shooting in all sorts of conditions.
Contrary to what the ad men want us to believe, glitzy rifles chamber for the latest fad cartridge loaded with high BC bullets and Imes via a scope that requires a 2nd mortgage to purchase do not negate climatic and atmospheric conditions. In many rifle shooting disciplines a number of sighter shots are allowed, maybe aided by a spotter. Not so in ethical hunting.
What a hunter should be most concerned with is the ability to place a one-shot group and under which conditions not to try that.

[Texas by God]

With a tall bipod from the sitting position, I can hit a gallon paint can 3 out of 3 with 100 gr Sierra bullets in my 25-06 Tikka at 460 yards. From my fence to the end of the field.
I've watched nice bucks cross the field down there at dusk many times- but I'm not hungry enough to consider taking a shot.
I hate tracking deer. I've killed one whitetail buck, one Muley buck, and a spike elk at just over 300 yards. But I like closer shots best.
With cast, I'm going to stay under 100yds with my iron sighted guns and 150 with the scoped ones.

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