350 Legend Deer Load

[rtyler8140]

I bought a BCA 350 Legend Upper a couple months ago to see what it could do. I've tried 3 different boolits at this point: Lee 358-200-RF, RCBS 25-250-SP, and NOE 360-230-RF. The Lee showed some promise in the inital testing, but wouldn't cycle the action with the loads I was using. I had the RCBS loaded too hot and it is probably a little too heavy of a boolit to get the velocity I want. I recently acquired the NOE 360-230-RF from another member on here. It is the version with pins for FP, CP, and HP. I decided on the cup point for the testing. I got my hands on some Shooters World Buffalo Rifle and developed a load using Gordon's Reloading Tool. I think I have a winner with the NOE boolit. I figure 230g at 1800fps should be a good combination. Just need to tweak the scope a little and I should be in business.

https://i.ibb.co/gtrRQdb/PXL-20220404-155800454.jpg (https://ibb.co/YfNLJX4)
https://i.ibb.co/vv512RQ/Screenshot-20220430-211801.png (https://ibb.co/JFLnXgy)

[fastdadio]

I have the BCA in 350 also, the only boolit I've tried so far is the 170gr, .357, fp, gc. from Matt's Bullets, I've had several failures to chamber with deformed noses. I think they're a bit too flat nosed to cycle reliably, so I gave the rest of them to my son to use in his Ruger all american bolt gun. If you can get your load to cycle reliably, you have a winner there. Here's a couple molds I have book marked for possible purchase that you may find interesting;
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-195RG
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-180LG

[rtyler8140]

I have the BCA in 350 also, the only boolit I've tried so far is the 170gr, .357, fp, gc. from Matt's Bullets, I've had several failures to chamber with deformed noses. I think they're a bit too flat nosed to cycle reliably, so I gave the rest of them to my son to use in his Ruger all american bolt gun. If you can get your load to cycle reliably, you have a winner there. Here's a couple molds I have book marked for possible purchase that you may find interesting;
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-195RG
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-180LG

I ran 15 rds through with that boolit and all chambered and cycled just fine. I do have the MP 359-220 as well, but need some parts to get it operational again. May see what that one does for kicks if I can get it back together.

[versa-06]

That ought to be a Smack Daddy of a load for just about anything! Looks Good Too!

[lar45]

Is your mold the plain base or gc ?
I see it's powder coated, if it's a gc did you use one?
TIA

[rtyler8140]

Is your mold the plain base or gc ?
I see it's powder coated, if it's a good, did you use one?
TIA

Gas check. Alloy is 50/50 COWW/SOWW, GC, PC, sized to .357

[lar45]

Thanks.
I haven't been able to get cast to shoot well out of my 450 Bushmaster. With jacketed stuff it's unbelievable. Maybe I need to try some softer bullets? I have some ww/pb in the melter pot now, maybe I'll cast some new ones to try.

[rtyler8140]

Thanks.
I haven't been able to get cast to shoot well out of my 450 Bushmaster. With jacketed stuff it's unbelievable. Maybe I need to try some softer bullets? I have some ww/pb in the melter pot now, maybe I'll cast some new ones to try.

Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the 450. I've had good luck with 50/50 in pretty much all my rifles in the range of 1400-2200fps.

[rickt300]

Have you tried grinding the feed lips of your magazines back .200 front to back? Once I did that all my feed/function problems went away. I have CMMG magazines and I ground the lips back to the back of the dimple.

[rickt300]

I am presently jug testing cast bullets for my deer load. For where I hunt 180 grains at 1900fps is perfect. Going outside right now to try the NOE 36-182 bullet cast with the cup point pin, flat nose pin and deep hollow point pin.

[rickt300]

And here they are. the one on the bottom is with the flat nose pin, the middle the cup pin and the top is using the deep HP pin.

https://i.postimg.cc/wjpc99Rt/IMG-0694.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7fKTV8VD)

https://i.postimg.cc/zBbRnQRZ/IMG-0696.jpg (https://postimg.cc/FdvRvDZD)

[rickt300]

These were shot into 4 one gallon milk jugs filled with water at 50 yards. Powder coated with red Harbor freight. The flat nose went through 4 jugs and stuck in the 1/2 inch plywood backing of my target holder. The cup point hit the plywood and bounced back into the 4th jug, the deep hollow point base ended up in the third jug with a fragment that went through the 4th jug. The cup point and the flat nose destroyed the first two jugs. The deep HP made a mist of the first jug, made a 3/8th's inch hole through the second and ended up in the third. So either the cup point or the flat nose work for me as a timber bullet for pigs and deer. The deep HP might be the worlds best raccoon eliminator. The load being 21.3 grains of I4227 shot from a 16 inch barrel. Alloy is 50/50 WW/soft lead maybe pure.

[rickt300]

I notice your seating with the case mouth over the crimp groove leaving it unsupported. Not sure but I like to seat the bullet so it supports the case mouth for what seems like it would be better at headspacing.

[mnewcomb59]

This was confusing to follow along with rickt and rtyler lol I was convinced you were the same person. So are you shooting those plain base at 1900fps? What kind of accuracy are you getting and what twist rate is your barrel? The recovered bullets look great and don't show any signs of skidding, gas cutting or powder coat erosion.

I have had luck with plain base Lee 158-RF with 4% Sb water dropped in my 30" twist Rossi 357 at 2000 fps but they were powder coated and then lightly tumble lubed. Plain PC left the base band naked of PC and left minor fouling in the barrel, but the addition of a light coat of tumble lube cleaned the barrel up and recovered bullets still had colored powder coat on all the drive bands. Plain base groups at 2000+ fps were 3-4 MOA at 100 yards and the gas check 158 RNFP bring it down to 1.5-2" for 10 shots. I mostly deer drive, so I need penetration for bad angle shots and the additional accuracy and softer lead with the gas check bullets doesn't mean much at 20-30 yards. In fact I have started to harden most my gas check bullets over the last 3 years to control expansion and get adequate penetration up close - 2-2-96 WD at 420 degrees penetrates almost as good as the rock hard plain base.

Recently I have been shooting the gas check bullets because I cast and coated buckets of them, but this summer I am loading up some more hard plain base bullets for deer driving because they work so well up close and I can plink them without feeling guilty lol

I would recommend to sight in for the cup point, then check where the flat nose hits. They will probably shoot to the same spot at 50 yards. Use the flat nose for stalking, driving, etc, then use the cup point for ambush hunting (treestand, blind, etc) where you can pick your shots and shoot broadside only. I have found that 3 jug loads don't give exit wounds, 4 jug loads do sometimes, and 5 jug loads give exit wounds almost every time. I have recovered a few "5 jug" bullets from deer but they were Texas heart shots and one was shot in the neck directly facing me. The neck shot went in under the chin, clipped every vertebrae, passed through the vertebrae to the top side of the neck, then was recovered between the shoulder blades of a 180 pound buck. I like to shoot most of my deer with 5 jug loads, but this year I killed a big doe out of state with a 4 jug load in a muzzleloader and got a small exit on a perfect broadside shot. The entry wound was about 3" and the exit was about a half inch. 315 grain .452 soft lead at 1600 fps

[rickt300]

They are all gas checked. My experience with the number of jugs penetrated and exit wounds is like yours. Bullets that penetrate 4 jugs usually give plenty of penetration and exit for me most of the time unless I hit bone. I'm loading up a hundred of the deep HP bullets for my summer loads (raccoons, trapped hogs, coyotes) and will use the flat nose bullets for deer and hog hunting. I may up velocity a bit when I test my pound of 1680.

[Pepe le PewPew]

I don’t have one or a 357 Max, but 1680 or one of the flavors of 296 (Win, Hod, AA or Alliant) ought to allow ultimate power if desired. I sure wish they would have used either a 357 or 358 bore diameter on this cartridge.

[Pepe le PewPew]

Oh forgot the most important part: great shooting and your book it’s look great, the flat point really performed nicely !

[rickt300]

Well I cast far more of the HP versions because it was going soooo well I hated to stop. But I bet I can shoot a couple hundred of them easily in a month. As for the diameter issue, I have taken the advice of some others and size both cast and jacketed bullets to .356 using a LEE sizer die. Easy enough and stops the occasional fail to completely go into battery issue.

[ChristopherO]

I sure wish they would have used either a 357 or 358 bore diameter on this cartridge.

I totally agree. Would have been much more practical.

I have taken the advice of some others and size both cast and jacketed bullets to .356 using a LEE sizer die]

I'm curious if the .356" is enough for the lead boolits. I suppose if the bore measures out at .355" it should do.

I've been toying with various 180+ grain lead cast boolits in my 35 Whelen in an effort to mimic the 350 Legend. Technically, I cannot deer hunt with the bottleneck cartridge, but it has been a fun exercise, keeps me involved and is cheap shooting for the most part. The 45/70 lever action does just fine on whitetails but my main interest has always been bolt actions, which the old Mauser in 35 caliber is. Larry Gibson replied to someone's post a while back that for the softer boolits, like I am shooting, range scrap, accuracy is good but about shot #8 the barrel will need cleaned. That is what I've been experiencing with these powder coated pills. The water jug comparisons are quite helpful. One and Two are well blown apart at 100 yards. Three is well wounded and four can at times still hold the expanded FN slug. Broadside shots on deer at 100 to 125 yards have my confidence. Accuracy begins to fall off by 150 yards, though.
The testing will continue.

Thanks for sharing your efforts and results so far. Be sure to give us field reports.

[rickt300]

I also have a Whelen and plan to play with some cast loads using Blue Dot when time permits. Oddly my Legend is not giving me any issues with barrel fouling. None in fact the barrel is spotless and shiny. I am surely beyond 50 shots since a thorough cleaning. My alloy of 50% WW and 50% pure must be harder than range scrap.

[rtyler8140]

I've been running all my boolits in my rifles with gas checks. For the 350 legend, I'm sizing to .357. I also have a 35 whelen and I run those at .358. I took a deer last year with the Lee 358-200-rf 50/50 air cooled over 13g red dot in my whelen. Shot was about 80 yards and did the trick with little issue.

[MarkP]

200 gr RCBS with RL-7 cycles my BCA in 350 Legend. My chamber in the BCA rifle is large enough that 0.358" bullets (using Starline brass) will chamber and there is plenty of clearance to release the bullet. Fired cases mic 0.382" ish, same with my 10.5" BCA in 350L. I swapped bbls on a 10.5" 5.56 BCA pistol upper and used a BCA 10.5" 350 L bbl. I have only shot 100 cast rounds thru mine BCA rifle mainly 200 gr RCBS & 180 gr NOE WFN (NOE loaded with AA1680) both function fine using Ruger 350 L magazines

I have shot 100's of cast loads thru my bolt action 350's. I have a Rem M Seven Predator (was a 223 ) JES re-bored and used my custom reamer the mouth is 0.003" larger than SAAMI min. With WW brass I can use 0.359 /0.360". In my Ruger All American I only shot cast that is loaded in Starline brass.

[versa-06]

rtyler8140; In that 35 Whelen & that 13 gr. Red Dot charge, What kind of velocity were you getting with that 200 gr. boolit? If you don't mind me asking.

[rtyler8140]

rtyler8140; In that 35 Whelen & that 13 gr. Red Dot charge, What kind of velocity were you getting with that 200 gr. boolit? If you don't mind me asking.

Info in the pic below:

https://i.ibb.co/m0rcV3P/Screenshot-20220506-205046.png (https://ibb.co/jz9rPSj)

[versa-06]

Thanks! Answered all of my questions, Very descriptive. Almost same vel. as posted for 358 Win. In old Lyman Handbook. #358315 206 gr. 13.0 gr. Red Dot 1505 fps.

[rtyler8140]

Thanks! Answered all of my questions, Very descriptive. Almost same vel. as posted for 358 Win. In old Lyman Handbook. #358315 206 gr. 13.0 gr. Red Dot 1505 fps.

Just saw your location, small world. My dad grew up in Ewing & went to Thomas Walker. Used to spend 2 weeks every summer down there when I was a kid.

[versa-06]

Small world with a lot of good people, But!!! It seems to be Falling Away!!! Hope to chat some more, & I love the 35's & up.

[ChristopherO]

I also have a Whelen and plan to play with some cast loads using Blue Dot when time permits. Oddly my Legend is not giving me any issues with barrel fouling. None in fact the barrel is spotless and shiny. I am surely beyond 50 shots since a thorough cleaning. My alloy of 50% WW and 50% pure must be harder than range scrap.

Glad to hear that your barrel shoots them without any lead deposits. I don't receive the streaking or caking, but at 1,900 to 2,000 fps the tight patches push out small lead flakes at the end of a shooting session, even powder coated. This is with H2400 or H4227 (yes, older powder that is still very good). I'm trying next range time to see if slowing them down into the 1,800 fps area will make a difference. Next casting session I'll water drop these NOE 182WFN instead of air cooling. That may assist in toughening up the exterior to keep this from happening. I really enjoy the effect they have on water jugs, though. No doubt a good whitetail load.
299931


My Bullseye loads are under 1,100 fps, IIRC. Fun little poppers and with the right boolit can be impressively accurate. Last time out was with Lyman 358156 powder coated but without the gas checks. 7 grains of Bullseye and large pistol primers. Accuracy wasn't so good at 100 yards with this combination. 20 more are now loaded up with the gas checks attached and the boolits sorted and weighed. Curious how those will do.

[rickt300]

I am air cooling, have yet to water quench anything for this rifle. Just shot another 50 through the barrel and still it looks perfect, shiny. I just ran out of I4227(love that powder) and will start a workup using H110 next series of tests. As long as it puts bullets into 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards I ain't messing with it. May save the 1680 for some J bullets I have lined up.

[geezer56]

Guys, fwiw, Deadshot barrels makes a 358 legend barrel that is correctly sized with a bore that is made for 357-358 diameter boollits. I'm cheap, and my cmmg barrel shoots jacketed so well that I can't justify the expense.

[rickt300]

Guys, fwiw, Deadshot barrels makes a 358 legend barrel that is correctly sized with a bore that is made for 357-358 diameter boollits. I'm cheap, and my cmmg barrel shoots jacketed so well that I can't justify the expense.

Same for my BCA barrel which after 200 rounds of powder coated bullets has become very polished. Burned around 150 jacketed bullets already and they performed just fine. Can't wait til this fall and doing the real testing.

[rickt300]

Well dragging this back up. I have a couple of pounds of H110 to use. I have noted some posts saying that maybe H110/296 may not be good with cast bullets, not sure why. Maybe too easy to get them moving. So that leaves a can of 1680. Does this powder have to be run at top velocities? I would like to run 1900-2000 feet per second.

[missionary5155]

I have used 296 /110 with cast for years in revolvers and Contenders in 41 Mag and 414 Supermag. But we only shoot heavy for caliber with a heavy crimp.
Not in the need for super speed.

[P Flados]

H110 seems to work for some folks, but it gave me poor ignition. Some rounds of any given batch seemed notably less powerful and I even stuck a few bullets in the barrel.

I switched to WC 680 (milsurp version of 1680) and was very pleased. The gun seems to like loads that are say 98% fill (just shy of full up to the bullet base).

This was with my 357AR Max (ballistic twin - same AOL & very close on effective case capacity) and custom 180 or 200 gr NLG cast bullets with PC.

[cwlongshot]

I have a number of pet cast loads in my Legend Bolt gun. My M$R shoots Fury 170g with 296 almost exclusively as its Faxon barrel has proven picky and this Fury/296 load works.

But a NOE 360/181 cup point and Blue Dot shoots 1600 fps and overlaps holes with numbing repeatability. I powder
Coat the bullets and removed the gc so the mold drops PB bullets now. I see ZERO need for a GC on a powder
Coated bullet under 1800fps. I have shot many past 2K with zero fouling but pressures to attain that warrent a gc.

A MP 359/220 was mentioned and is a favorite in my 356/358's but it was used last year with 5744 to take a couple
Deer and it worked perfectly & 1500 fps. Dime sized exits taking ribs deer expired with in 50/60' and there reaction was close to archery. Jump and walk off dying mid stride. Shots inside 150'

I like the idea of 1750/1800 fpr a cast bullet deer hunting velocity and strive to achieve that. But dont be afraid of a lil
Less as long as you act the hunter not the shooter. Place shots on calm close animals And you will have a full freezer.

CW

[rickt300]

I have a number of pet cast loads in my Legend Bolt gun. My M$R shoots Fury 170g with 296 almost exclusively as its Faxon barrel has proven picky and this Fury/296 load works.

But a NOE 360/181 cup point and Blue Dot shoots 1600 fps and overlaps holes with numbing repeatability. I powder
Coat the bullets and removed the gc so the mold drops PB bullets now. I see ZERO need for a GC on a powder
Coated bullet under 1800fps. I have shot many past 2K with zero fouling but pressures to attain that warrent a gc.

A MP 359/220 was mentioned and is a favorite in my 356/358's but it was used last year with 5744 to take a couple
Deer and it worked perfectly & 1500 fps. Dime sized exits taking ribs deer expired with in 50/60' and there reaction was close to archery. Jump and walk off dying mid stride. Shots inside 150'

I like the idea of 1750/1800 fpr a cast bullet deer hunting velocity and strive to achieve that. But dont be afraid of a lil
Less as long as you act the hunter not the shooter. Place shots on calm close animals And you will have a full freezer.

CW

I do have some Blue Dot. Could you give me a ball park starting load and velocity range?

[cwlongshot]

Blue dot can be quite sketchy so start low and work up. Watching for pressures and they can come quickly.

CW