Bubbaed Barrel repair

[LAGS]

I am working on a rifle for someone else.
He did not build this rifle , he bought it used and looks good from 10 feet away.
This whole rifle is Totally Bubbaed.
The major issue is the barrel.
Besides poorly filed in dovetails for the sights, they screwed the under rib to the barrel with 10/32 screws.
The only problem is.
They drilled and tapped the holes all the way thru into the bore.
The screws are short enough that they don't stick out into the rifling.
I was wondering if the barrel is still safe to fire ?
If it might be safe to fire with screws locktighted into the barrel it leaves a dent in the bore that could collect crud and may effect accuracy.
I was thinking about locking the screws in flush with the inside of the bore.
Then send it to Bob Hoyt and have him refresh the rifling so there is no voids.
The screws will be set in and filed flush with the outside of the barrel so they can never be removed.
The under rib can then be remounted by drilling and tapping new holes the right way , or solder the rib to the barrel.
Do you guys have any opinions on this kind of Fix.
The rifle is a home Built ( by Bubba) and the parts all kind of match up to a TOW Kit Carson Kit.
So there were good parts that he started with.
But his skills are the worst I have ever seen

[243winxb]

The holes will fill with lead from firing & not be a problem. No thread locker needed on plugs.

Had 8 holes drilled into rifling on Ruger mk1pistol, right in front of the chamber/frame. . The venting made it almost recoiless. Used for ISU rapid fire, in 70s. When plugs were put in, accuracy was ok.

When tapping the holes, the plugs should not enter the rifling. To drill, Cerrosafe filled the area first. No burrs.

[LAGS]

With Patched Balls , the lead will never hit the depressions.
Now if he shoots minies that might be an issue.
But I don't think it will be a big problem.
I am working on the stock inletting now.
Looks like I have to glass bed the barrel , tang ,trigger and lock.
Bubba sure doesn't know how to inlet anything.

[243winxb]

I would look for burrs from drilling the hole. May need some polishing, so burrs dont catch the patch. A bore scope would be nice.

[LAGS]

I will make an Epoxy Lapping tool that is cast in the barrel.
That with polishing compound will remove any burs.
But I don't see any burs now or feel them.
Who knows how long ago this gun was built.

[john.k]

J.V .Howe describes how to cover up a hole drilled into the bore......with a borescope it should be relatively easy......anyhoo,it involves cutting off the screw to length as screwed in ,and matching up rifling by filing with the screw removed .....with a borescope ,it wont take too long.

[LAGS]

There are three holes in the barrel.
But lucky the friend would like the barrel shortened because the barrel is way too long and really front heavy for the stock on the rifle.
Cutting down the barrel will eliminate one of the holes at the tip of the barrel , plus the very poorly done dovetail for the front sight.
The dovetail looks like it was cut in with a Dremmel tool
The dovetail is so loose and not level that the front and rear sights were epoxied to the barrel.
The barrel tennon was also soft soldered to the surface of the bottom of the barrel and not dovetailed in like it should be for the tennon design.
That caused the tennon to be so low that it would not allow the ramrod to go past the tennon.
I will fix that too.

[armoredman]

Watching this thread with great interest. :D

[Jackrabbit1957]

Just curious Lags, are you a gunsmith? I am in Southern Az, can offer services to help straighten out that bit of a mess. I mainly do black powder revolver tuning and repairs and occasional rifle stuff. I have a lathe and mill and can definitely get the dovetails in straight if you needed it done, plus square and crown the barrel after it's been cut.

[LAGS]

@jackrabbit.
The name LAGS stands for.
Larry A " Gun" Smith.
I have been building guns for mostly myself since I was 16, back in 1970
But I no longer have my lathe or mill.
I do, if needed, farm out machining if it can not be done by hand.
Armoredman can tell you about the kind of work that I do and my skill level.
I love challenging projects like this because I do not want a bunch of Wall Hangers floating around.
Armoredman has called me the " Anti Bubba".
I can't post pictures on the site because of my computer.( Mostly because I am not good with computers )
But as I am working on a gun for someone else , I send them pictures of before and after so they see what I am doing.
My work is mostly on BP rifles now that I have retired from construction , but never worked as a Gunsmith as a business just a hobby.

[centershot]

There are three holes in the barrel.
But lucky the friend would like the barrel shortened because the barrel is way too long and really front heavy for the stock on the rifle.
Cutting down the barrel will eliminate one of the holes at the tip of the barrel , plus the very poorly done dovetail for the front sight.
The dovetail looks like it was cut in with a Dremmel tool
The dovetail is so loose and not level that the front and rear sights were epoxied to the barrel.
The barrel tennon was also soft soldered to the surface of the bottom of the barrel and not dovetailed in like it should be for the tennon design.
That caused the tennon to be so low that it would not allow the ramrod to go past the tennon.
I will fix that too.

:killingpc

[LAGS]

The barrel is one of the Least Bubba'ed issues.
The stock was inletted too deep.
Then he glued in blocks to build it back up.
In both the barrel and lock areas.
And used some soft gummy epoxy to fill the gaps.
The lock is mounted with two screws.
The one at the front of the lock goes right thru the area where the ramrod should fit in the stock under the lock.
But that wasn't an issue , because he glued a block in to build up the area for the lock to sit in.
The trigger was inletted 1/2" deep into the stock , then again built back up with wood.
The trigger itself was not working.
Mainly because he filed off part of the trigger lever so it didn't hit one of the blocks of wood he glued into the lock area.
Now the lever is too short to engage the sear lever.
Trust me.
I will be able to fix the whole rifle.
I already removed all the little blocks of wood that he glued into the lock area , and am making a single block to fill in the lock area so it can be Re Inletted.
I will also weld up the trigger lever , and drill and tap the lock for installing the lock properly.
There are other issues , but nothing I can't Fix Properly.

[armoredman]

I can attest that LAGS does some FINE work. I am not home and don't have access to all my photos, but I have one fine example, a T/C Renegade he fixed from a broken junker that works like a charm. He also did an incredible custom stock for a rifle I lost right before the divorce, which I will post this weekend. Also, Jackrabbit, I still have to send you that 1860 Uberti to work on - LAGS concentrates on rifles, and yes, that is my rifle he is working on. The primary reason I bought it is that it is a left hander, and my son is left handed, so when this is done my boy and his fat old man can go make smoke together.

[elmacgyver0]

The barrel will be just fine.
I repaired a demilled 30.06 barrel that had 3 bore sized holes drilled into it.
One a few inches from the muzzle, one in the center and one in the chamber.
Tapped the holes made plugs to screw in and contoured the best I could and welded them in place.
Worked just fine, ejected cases have a tiny little crescent mark from the chamber repair but the gun runs flawlessly.
If it works for a 30.06, it will be just fine for black powder.

[LAGS]

I took on this project to use my skills and not let parts from a good Builder Kit go to waste.
The rifle probably have been shootable in the shape Armoredman bought it.
But there might have been issues down the line , so why not fix the rifle now and fix all the potential issues.
Also I will do it for him in this manor to keep the cost down.
IE.
We could replace the stock.
The Pre Shaped un inletted stock costs about $150 plus shipping.
Then it too has to be inletted and finished.
So this gives me plenty of practice on work I may end up doing down the line on other rifles that I buy dirt cheap.
Also , working on a Left Handers in not that common.
So I am not going to pass up this chance to do one.
I have 5 TC Renagade and Hawkins that I am Rebuilding at the same time I am doing his rifle.
After that I will jump in on two other Kits that I bought.
A GPR and a Pedersolli 32 Cub flintlock

[Jackrabbit1957]

Wow, you've certainly got your hands full on that one! Plum amazing how some folks can mess something up.
Good luck with this and your other projects. I am trying to get a small business off the ground doing revolver tunes and repairs plus some other black powder things. Hoping it becomes enough work to keep me in moccasins for my " retirement years".

[LAGS]

When I retired, I decided to kind of follow in my grandfather's footsteps.
He was a home gunsmith for years.
But the last 10 years of his life , he did only Muzzleloaders.
And I mean Built them from scratch.
Barrels, locks and the stocks.
I wish I would have got some of the rifles he had built.
But when he died.
My grandmother donated them to the shooting club he belonged to.
They auctioned them off for money for the club.

[truckjohn]

Sounds like you have a real labor of love there.

I have a bad habit of bringing stuff like this home, but it always bites me with twenty times more work and money dumped into it than if I just scrapped the whole thing and started from scratch... But that's just me.

[farmbif]

I have at least one lever action that has front sight mount screw holes that are all the way though the barrel the screws holding sight mount are short and dont extend to rifling. I just assumed that's the way marlin made them at some point. its not a problem in that gun.

[LAGS]

Since I will be cutting about 8" off the barrel and that section has one of the holes.
I will play with running the screw into the barrel and Lock tite it in place in the cut off peice of the barrel.
This gives me a sample that I can play with to have the screw run all the way down to the rifling.
Then since it is right at the end of the barrel , I can see what has to be done to make it flush with the rifling .
That way I can play with the lapping tool that I will make.
Then see if I can eliminate any depression or prevent burs or screw protruding into the bore.
That is why I like these kind of projects.
They allow me to experiment with different types of repairs and not downgrade the finish build.
Sort of like trying different finishes on Junk Stocks that I do not intend on actually building into another gun.
The cut off barrel section with the Bubba'ed in front sight dovetail will also give me something to practice on before I have to do the repair on the other bubba'ed in dovetail for the rear sight.

[armoredman]

Anyone like some photos?

This is what I saw at the store, behind the glass.

299787299788

Something seemed...off, but the left handedness caught my eye. So, closer look...

299789299790299791299792

The store clerk insisted the gun was functioning...and DID managed to get the trigger to reset, once. I talked them down to about half the asking price. Yes, that is one of the missing ram rods guides that fell off.

[armoredman]

So, I took it to LAGS, and he began observing everything Bubba had done...and the list is long. Presented in no particular order, but numbered so LAGS can tell you what you're looking at.
1
299793
2
299794
3
299795
4
299796
5
299797
6
299799
7
299800
8
299798
9
299801
10
299802
11
299803
12
299804

[armoredman]

And the ultimate end user with the original, Bubba'd rifle, which I'll contrast with the rebuilt marvel he will receive.

299805

[LAGS]

If you need more info about the pictures , just ask by number.
That way I don't have to rag on the conditions

[armoredman]

Updates.
13
299823
14
299824

[LAGS]

Pictures 13 and 14 show the lock area of the stock and how I am filling it in so I can re inlet the lock properly.
The lock area on the stock was inletted too big and too deep.
So he ( bubba ) glued in several blocks of wood to support the lock.
I took those blocks out.
Now I sand and fit my block of wood so it slides in all the way.
Then glue it in place with good bedding compound epoxy.
Then inlet the lock like it needs to be.
I have done this kind of Fix when I had an Italian rifle stock they didn't make parts for any more that I filled in the lock area and inletted a lock that was available.

[armoredman]

And;
15
299869

[armoredman]

As promised, some other LAGS work;
CZ 527M converted to a one of a kind pistol grip stock with spare magazine holder in the butt...the last victim of the previous marriage. [smilie=b:
299872299873

TC Renegade rescued;

299874

[LAGS]

You didn't mention the 5 round magazine that I extended to 10 rounds on that CZ

[Jackrabbit1957]

Man! It's a shame about that stock, looks like some really nice figured maple. If that parts set is what I think it is that's about 1000.00 dollars worth.

[LAGS]

You are correct.
This rifle looks like it was a Builders Kit that would have cost about $1,000 for just the parts.
The lock and trigger are made by Long out of Denver.
Those locks were one of the better ones back years ago.
Now you see why it is so important to Save this rifle.

[Hannibal]

I've given up on such projects. If taken on for the owner then they rarely appreciate what you've done for them, if you repair it and try to resell it then no one wants it if they are enlightened as to it's original condition and I don't need to spend my time proving to myself that I can correct such calamities so therefore such messes are simply not worth anything IMHO.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Sometimes it's about the journey rather than the destination.

[LAGS]

Most of the rifles that I rebuild.
If I sell them,
I sell them for the cost of parts that I used to restore them plus what I paid for the rifle.
But then , I do this as a hobby not to make money or do it as a business.
But my hobby has always paid for itself.
I just love the guys that will offer you $100 for a Kibler rife in perfect condition.
Just because it is a Kit.
And kits are just junk.

[armoredman]

You didn't mention the 5 round magazine that I extended to 10 rounds on that CZ

My bad, the one of a kind only ten round CZ527M magazine in the world. THAT survived and went to a needy member of my forum.

[armoredman]

I've given up on such projects. If taken on for the owner then they rarely appreciate what you've done for them, if you repair it and try to resell it then no one wants it if they are enlightened as to it's original condition and I don't need to spend my time proving to myself that I can correct such calamities so therefore such messes are simply not worth anything IMHO.

Trust me, amigo, I appreciate it VERY much. My son also appreciates it as this will be his once it is complete, and LAGS needs to make sure he signs it with a brand somewhere on the stock..."Rescued By LAGS" or something like that.

[LAGS]

Today I bedded the block of wood into the lock area.
I also bedded the area where the ram rod fits under the barrel so a full length ramrod can be used.
I also drilled and tapped the lock in the correct spot for the lock mounting bolt.
Now before I refinish the lock, I will fill in the old holes .
The same will be done on the trigger where he drilled the holes in the wrong spots and very off center.
The next step will be to fine inlet the lock area and remount the barrel tang now that there is wood for the screw to anchor into.
The tang only had one screw in the tip of the tang that also went thru the stock into the trigger.
You can see that in picture 12
Once the tang is mounted correctly , then I can glass bed in the barrel into that over inletted barrel channel.

[John Taylor]

The biggest problem I see is that the lock is on the wrong side. About 35 years ago I made a left handed Hawkin for a customer, told him I had to look in a mirror while making it so it would come out right, or left as the case was. Every once in a while I get a job in where bubba worked on it first, most of the time that adds lots of time to the repair.

[Hannibal]

Most of the rifles that I rebuild.
If I sell them,
I sell them for the cost of parts that I used to restore them plus what I paid for the rifle.
But then , I do this as a hobby not to make money or do it as a business.
But my hobby has always paid for itself.
I just love the guys that will offer you $100 for a Kibler rife in perfect condition.
Just because it is a Kit.
And kits are just junk.

Fair enough. Your work looks fine and apparently it will be appreciated in this case. I've just had too many experiences with 'friends' who want a mess that resembles a hunk of rebar stuck to a chunk of wormy wood restored because it was 'Uncle Joe's favorite' and it got forgotten about in the garage for a couple of decades.
Just, no.

[LAGS]

Mr Taylor.
You are right about the difficulty in inletting the lock on a left Handers.
I have to go slow and keep looking to make sure I don't do it backwards.
The only other Left Hand rifles I have ever done , was a pair of Savage 110s and I still have one that I need to finish the stock.
You are also right about the difficulty in repairing a rifle with several Bubbaed areas.
Like on this rifle.
Normally , I inlet the barrel and tang.
Then the lock and then the trigger.
I can't do the repairs on the cracked forend and line up the barrel again because there is so much wood removed to get the height correct to the lock.
So I chose to set the lock properly , then line the barrel up to the lock position.
As you can see in pictures 5 &8.
He had inletted the stock for a round barrel and Deep.
That caused cracks along the thinner area where the hole for the ramrod is below the barrel.
Then he laid in fiberglass cloth to bridge the cracks.
I took all those repairs out.
I will Full Glass Bed the barrel so it fits the stock perfect.

[armoredman]

16
299927
17
299926
18
299928

[LAGS]

Compare these pictures to previously posted pictures #1,4,11,12,13,&14

[skeettx]

Fun thread, holes can be very interesting :)

[LAGS]

Today I am inletting the lock.
Boy is this difficult.
Not the inletting , but because it is a left handers.
Over the years I have done about 15 guns from a blank stock, but none in left hand.
The Previous Bubba'ed issues aren't causing a concern, but doing things out of proper order slows things down a bit.
But the experience building kits in the past helps with my work.
Especially the ones that I Re Built that I bought used.
I do hope this thread shows others that things can be fixed or made better.

[armoredman]

Learning opportunity all around!

[indian joe]

gonna be a nice piece when its done - decent quality parts and a nice chunk of wood to work with
the pictures are gonna surprise some folk for sure

[FrankJD]

What is that expression? Polishing a something-or-other? :grin:

[LAGS]

I think this is just a bit more than Polishing.

[armoredman]

Will have more pictures up as soon as I can access the home computer - things are coming along!

[indian joe]

What is that expression? Polishing a something-or-other? :grin:

nah! this is a rebuild - like ya tore it down and sandblasted the chassis kind of rebuild
more of a challenge than a scratch build - cuz he will fix all the stuffed up parts along the way - and he wont leave any tracks along the way either
just hope the feller that receives it - appreciates what has been done!

[armoredman]

nah! this is a rebuild - like ya tore it down and sandblasted the chassis kind of rebuild
more of a challenge than a scratch build - cuz he will fix all the stuffed up parts along the way - and he wont leave any tracks along the way either
just hope the feller that receives it - appreciates what has been done!

Trust me, amigo, I will and my son will as well!
It's starting to remind me of when my Dad used to rebuild Model A's, by buying rusted frames and having them dipped and stretched. That's how the first car I drove was a Model T Rumble Seat. he didn't let me drive it very far, mind you...;)
I have had some of LAGS work and seen a bunch more - if it can be fixed, he can fix it.

[armoredman]

19
https://i.imgur.com/xX7JHY9.jpg

20
https://i.imgur.com/qnrzqmU.jpg

21
https://i.imgur.com/8vqDjTZ.jpg

22
https://i.imgur.com/we1zkbd.jpg

23
https://i.imgur.com/fWLr3yI.jpg

24
https://i.imgur.com/OvJid1L.jpg

[LAGS]

Thank you for posting these pictures.
Today I got the Tang all inletted and about ready to glass bed in the areas where the stock was inletted in the wrong areas or too deep.
I also shortened the barrel as the owner requested.
But you can see how good the rifling is.
I also inletted the barrel Tennon into the bottom of the barrel.
Remember.
Bubba had just soldered the tennon to the bottom of the barrel before.
That made the tennon .090 lower on the barrel.
Whech made the tennon hang down into the slot for the ramrod because he had inletted the barrel so deeply.
I will set the barrel to the proper depth , and make sure the Tennon does not prevent the ramrod from going down the slot all the way.
Then I will Full Glass Bed the barrel channel so the stock fits the exact form and depth the barrel needs

[LAGS]

You can see in pictures 21 and 24 that he had inletted and moved the barrel back.
That caused binding between where the lock wraps around the breech plug.
That GAP will be Epoxy Bedded to make the stock fit the tang and provide recoil support when the rifle is fired.
Also you can see where I installed the Lock Bolt like it should have been installed and not like he Bubba Anchored the lock to the stock with two misplaced screws shown in picture # 1 ,4 &18

[armoredman]

This is one detailed restoration thread!

25
https://i.imgur.com/iksHZfe.jpg

[LAGS]

I checked the Tennon to the ramrod clearance.
Now the ramrod will work under the barrel.
That clearance issue was probably why the rifle came without a ramrod.
I do hope that others see what is being done in this restoration , and many thing that they can do themselves.
I do not have some Fancy Machine Shop.
All the work I do and have done is with Hand Tools and just a couple power tools.
Like a electric drill , a drill press , a 12" disc sander.
Oh.
I do have a Dremmel tool.
But hardly ever use it.

[indian joe]

I checked the Tennon to the ramrod clearance.
Now the ramrod will work under the barrel.
That clearance issue was probably why the rifle came without a ramrod.
I do hope that others see what is being done in this restoration , and many thing that they can do themselves.
I do not have some Fancy Machine Shop.
All the work I do and have done is with Hand Tools and just a couple power tools.
Like a electric drill , a drill press , a 12" disc sander.
Oh.
I do have a Dremmel tool.
But hardly ever use it.

We tend to blame bubba for lack of ability when really most of the problems come from lack of patience - so in the rush to "git it done" the sharp chisel gets replaced by a dremel tool -----= ooooops took too much there ..................................too late mate!

[LAGS]

I just ran into another issue that will have to be addressed now that I set the tennon correctly.
Now the cross hole in the stock is too low.
So that will have to be filled with wood.
Then re inletted to the height needed to work correctly once the barrel is bedded.
No big deal.
And lucky he didn't recess the inlays for the pin into the stock.
I think moving the inlay plates up , will cover the repairs to the stock.
The old screw holes too will be filled with wood and then redrilled when I relocate the inlay plates.
If the inlays don't cover the repairs of the pin hole or screws, I then have the option of installing new Larger inlay plates.
If those can't be found , I can always make new brass or steel plates.

[indian joe]

I just ran into another issue that will have to be addressed now that I set the tennon correctly.
Now the cross hole in the stock is too low.
So that will have to be filled with wood.
Then re inletted to the height needed to work correctly once the barrel is bedded.
No big deal.
And lucky he didn't recess the inlays for the pin into the stock.
I think moving the inlay plates up , will cover the repairs to the stock.
The old screw holes too will be filled with wood and then redrilled when I relocate the inlay plates.
If the inlays don't cover the repairs of the pin hole or screws, I then have the option of installing new Larger inlay plates.
If those can't be found , I can always make new brass or steel plates.

German silver plates look kinda neat - can make them from old kitchen spoon or better an old silver plated coffee pot or such - the remaining silver comes off easy . can fabricate a nose cap from this too - one of the silver brazing alloys is a near perfect colour match

[Jackrabbit1957]

Old coins work too, used them to spruce up my Ferguson build.

[LAGS]

If you look at pictures #1 & 4 you will see that the original builder had made the side plate Washers out of the casing heads from 300 Win Magnum.
That wasn't too bad of an idea.they could have been refined a little better , but still it was a good idea on his part.

[LAGS]

You know,
I really need to Stop Ragging on this Bubba's work.
At least he was able to get a Level 4 Builders kit into a Functioning Rifle.
From the looks of the finishes on the rifle , I bet he would have done an Excellent job on say a level 1 screwdriver kit.
But I still have to point out his Mistakes, and what they effected plus how to Fix them.
But when this rifle is complete , I am sure that I will be blamed by most people that I did the Bubba Work if they can see any of my Fixes.
But I will be satisfied because there are two people that know the real story behind this Rebuild and I know they will appreciate it.
And so will their wallets.

[armoredman]

26
https://i.imgur.com/HBQoUtk.jpg

[LAGS]

And Armoredman must be a King.
I made a Crown for him.

[elmacgyver0]

And Armoredman must be a King.
I made a Crown for him.

I enjoy fixing up a lot of messed up stuff, but I doubt if I can do as well as you.

[LAGS]

Why can't you do as well as my work?
It is just a matter of trying.
And you have a lot of support from members on this , and many other sites.
That Crown was done with a 7/8" ball bearing , welded to a 1/4" piece of drill rod.
Then spun in an electric drill with 220 grit polishing compound.
I made the tool myself like 30 years ago with my welding torch.

[Jackrabbit1957]

LAGS, you do some truly excellent work! I really like the way you stepped up and brought this train wreck back from the trash heap. It's nice to see what some patience and ingenuity can do!

[LAGS]

This is not My train wreck.
But Armoredman did get it because he knew I could fix it if it had issues.
But my train wreck salvage yard is still pretty full.
But those too will get rebuilt over time pretty soon.
After all.
I am a Firearms Recycler more than a Gunsmith

[armoredman]

Now I know what to get you for your birthday - a wrecked model train.

[armoredman]

And Armoredman must be a King.
I made a Crown for him.

That is truly a crowning achievement. :)

[LAGS]

Today I will be bedding the Tang and rear of the barrel.
This takes time.
The bedding compound I use , doesn't set for hours and doesn't fully cure for almost 24 hours.
Faster setting epoxies are not as hard and durable as this bedding compound.
So I have to find something else to work on so I don't do the three P's.
You don't want to Pitter , Putter or Play with the gun.
You can screw it up or cause air bubbles if the parts move.
So,
I will go work on my other rifles or see if I can do the repairs on things I need to weld up on the trigger.
But until the epoxy cures, I can not do anything with the trigger that involves fitting it back into the stock

[LAGS]

Now, when you are glass bedding .
You can speed up the curing process on epoxy by warming it up with a hair dryer or heat gun.
But I say Do Not do that.
You are causing the epoxy to cure faster on the exposed parts and not all the way thru evenly.
And if you heat it up enough to get the unexposed areas to cure , you are cooking the crap out of the exposed areas.
Be patient with epoxies , take your time.
It is a lot of work , but you don't want it to come out bad or have to redo it.

[armoredman]

27
https://i.imgur.com/T96o5wd.jpg

28
https://i.imgur.com/LijV1ie.jpg

29
https://i.imgur.com/Wr7PisV.jpg

30
https://i.imgur.com/OpTFqgi.jpg

31
https://i.imgur.com/q4kiTUK.jpg

32
https://i.imgur.com/TV8xepu.jpg

[LAGS]

Picture 29 shows where I epoxied the tang to the barrel for bedding.
This makes sure everything is in alignment when either bedding the Tang or barrel or both at once.
When you are done bedding.
You just warm up the tang with a heat gun or propane torch.
Then it comes back off.
I also epoxy the tang to the barrel when I inlet the stock.
It makes for better more consistent inletting.

[armoredman]

Nifty. BTW, guys I am not there - LAGS is sending me the pics from half a state away and I'm uploading them from home.

[LAGS]

The next area I will bed is the length of the barrel especially the area where the Tennon sits in the stock as seen in picture #30.
To prevent the bedding compound from going down into the channel for the ramrod.
I put the release agent on a piece of steel rod.
And place it in the ramrod channel.
I had the 3/8 steel rod in the ramrod channel when I bedded the tang.
Just in case there was a crack that would let epoxy flow down into the ramrod channel.
As you can see in picture 30.
The stock already had cracks down into the ramrod channel.
Bedding the whole barrel channel will fix those cracks from the inside.
I also glued pieces of wood into the Wedge Holes.
That was because I have to re cut the holes for the barrel wedge because he cut them in too low because of too deep bedding on the barrel.
If I don't have to redo the wedge holes , I just fill them with floral clay so the epoxy doesn't run out there.

[LAGS]

Picture #28 is the rear sight that came with the rifle.
The previous owner / Builder had cut the dovetail in the barrel wrong and was too loose to hold the rear sight in place.
He actually epoxied the rear sight into the dovetail.
So , since the dovetail is larger than most Standard rear Sights , and we don't want to buy an Oversized Sight.
I soldered a steel plate to the front of the sight to make it longer.
Now I can make the dovetail work , and make the rear sight adjustable for windage.
It is kind of a Bubba Fix , but it works and cost me less to do.
Plus the time trying to find a sight that is correct and is oversized on the base.

[indian joe]

just a thought for another time
I did a boogered up CVA once - I think had had a flintlock of different pedigree fitted and then the lock inlet filled with beeswax when it was put back to percussion - whatever - the lock inlet was really bad - rather than fit a wood inlay I just made a bigger lockplate to cover the whole thing and re inletted it - the lockpate was easy - just stripped the lock down and clamped the old and new back to back to get the holes spaced exactly - done one in reverse too - got a inletted stock in that black brazilian timber cheap off a trade blanket - made a blank lockplate to fit the inlet then fitted CVA innards off a small maslin percussion lock.
I do metalwork better than wood so I guess I lean that way but these were easy jobs and end up looking ok.

[LAGS]

@ Indian Joe.
For a template to make duplicate parts ,
I use Masking Tape as you can see in picture #14.
I put the tape on the lock and cut it out to fit.
Then transfered it to the wood block to be able to sand the block to exact measurements of the lock.
In this case.
I Marked the tape to match the Lock.
And then cut the tape to match the previous inletted stock.
Once the block was inserted and glued in the stock , then I made a Tape Template again that was exactly matching the lock for reinletting the block of wood.
I also use that Tape Template method for duplicating metal too like side plates and Wedge Plates and even patch boxes.

[LAGS]

Today's plan is to bed the forestock and area around the Tennon shown in picture #30.
Plus work on the trigger some more.
I need to weld up the plate on the front trigger where he filed it down to clear the stock , and now misses engaging the sear.
That area can be seen in picture #15 on page 2 of this thread.

[725]

LAGS ~ are you going to bed the entire length of the barrel? Seems that would make for a very solid shooter. I've heard of others doing that and I've thought about doing that, too.

725

[725]

Ooops. I reread the tread and see that is for intention. good idea.

[LAGS]

Full length Bedding on a ML barrel really doesn't increase the accuracy as much as it does for many other rifles.
But it does fit the stock to the barrel pretty snug , and more keeps the lighter stocks from warping since you only have the one wedge holding everything together.
But it also prevents moisture from soaking into the barrel channel of the stock causing warps or twists.
On Most M L's
I do not bed them unless the stock isn't that great of fitting.
But Free Floating the barrel on ML does no good at all.
Except maybe on a Heavy barreled Chunk Gun.
The stock floating around the barrel is not likely to put enough pressure on the barrel to cause inaccuracy.
But a poor fitted stock with the wedge putting down pressure on the barrel can cause accuracy issues.
But bedding can prevent that.
The bedding of this stock not only made it fit better , it is fixing the cracks that were already there when Armoredman bought the rifle.
But couldn't see the cracks under the barrel.

[armoredman]

And here we go!

33
https://i.imgur.com/Nl7zK4U.jpg

34
https://i.imgur.com/VOmDQSf.jpg

[LAGS]

# 33 & 34 show the bedding operation on the forestock.
I sent Armoredman pictures of how the barrel channel turned out.
It looks great , and is molded around the barrel tennon really well.
Next thing in line is to bed the trigger and make sure it works properly.
Remember,
When he bought the rifle, the trigger was not working.
But today I welded it up and got it working again.

[725]

Neat

[armoredman]

And I'm back.

35
https://i.imgur.com/YXwwEur.jpg

36
https://i.imgur.com/slSKs4C.jpg

37
https://i.imgur.com/kd1xqjd.jpg

38
https://i.imgur.com/uXO3mcR.jpg

39
https://i.imgur.com/K9Zi7tN.jpg

[LAGS]

It is hard to see in picture #39 , but I had to weld up an extension to the front trigger lever.
The picture #15 on page 2 of this thread shows that plate filed off round which caused it not to hit the sear lever any more.
If this does not work , a new trigger lever can be ordered from T O W for around $20.00

[LAGS]

See the difference between pictures #37 and #30.
You will see how much it improved the fit of the barrel to the barrel channel at the Tennon / wedge area.
That is a very important point on the stock.

[armoredman]

Sweet!

[armoredman]

I missed a few pictures from a day or so ago, sorry.

40
https://i.imgur.com/jqOgImQ.jpg

41
https://i.imgur.com/gzfyj5j.jpg

42
https://i.imgur.com/doC2O2b.jpg

And recently;

43
https://i.imgur.com/8v03BI9.jpg

44
https://i.imgur.com/rcTzgS2.jpg

[LAGS]

Pictures # 40- 42 show the holes in the trigger base that had the holes drilled off center or too close to the end from what I like.
I will re-drill them correctly or should I say , to my liking.
Picture # 44 shows that the nose cap was not installed correctly.
And it was only attached to the stock with epoxy.
You can see in # 43 how far off the stock was shaped for the nose cap.
I will Re fit the stock and then glass bed the cap to the stock.
Then I will install a screw or two from the inside of the barrel channel thru the stock and tapped into the nose cap.
I will use JB Weld Kwik dry epoxy to bed this part.
The stuff that is black , not the clear stuff which is softer.
Because the bedding won't be exposed , so the color doesn't matter.
That epoxy is stronger than most quick cure epoxies.
And for minor parts like this you don't want to be waiting all day for the epoxy to cure.
I will probably use the JB quick cure on the bedding for the trigger too to reset the areas where the stock was over inletted too deep.
Oh.
For Release Agent on the parts , I use Johnson paste Wax.

[armoredman]

A few more;

45
https://i.imgur.com/a34gpi1.jpg

46
https://i.imgur.com/gMexqwi.jpg

[LAGS]

I also see what Bubba tried to do.
He had drilled the stock and the barrel so he could screw on the nose cap thru the nose cap and stock and threaded into the barrel to anchor it.
That was Stupid.
With the front of the stock ,screwed to the barrel , then what is the point of having a Hooked Breech plug and a barrel wedge.
It would make lots more work and tools required to take the barrel off for cleaning.
The hole in the barrel in front of the stock tip is for attaching the barrel under rib.
Those are two of the holes that are all the way thru into the rifling.
Those are the holes that started this thread.

[armoredman]

Bubba really did not have a clue..

47
https://i.imgur.com/zYfE81M.jpg

48
https://i.imgur.com/lmeOHo2.jpg

49
https://i.imgur.com/5jvutGa.jpg

[LAGS]

Nose cap is bedded

[725]

How are you fixing the holes that were drilled all the way through the rifling?

[LAGS]

Those holes will be filled with 10/32 hard screws threaded in with Red Locktite.
I will take my bore scope and look down the barrel and watch as I thread them in.
I will stop when the screw starts to come into the rifling.
Then I will take the cut off section of the barrel and make up a Lapping tool that is cast out of hard epoxy mixed with a little aluminium oxide powder.
That will be cast onto a fitting that fits a cleaning rod.
Then I will lap the area where the screws come thru to relieve any burrs or Locktite that is in the rifling.
Then I will make a second lapping tool out of just epoxy.
That one I will use the whole length of the bore with polishing compound.
The lapping tool cast in the cut off section will match the remaining barrels rifling , if Indexed so it will fit almost perfectly.
It is a lot of work , but it works.
In the past I have made lapping tools similar to this to lap out barrels on military rifles that I sporterized like sewer pipe Mosin Nagants.
It doesn't refresh your barrel completely.
But it does follow the existing rifling if done carefully.
But it smooths it out enough to be a little more accurate.

[LAGS]

Hmmm ?
I wonder if I should leave one of the holes and use it as a Gas Port to make this into a Semi or Full Auto Hawken ?

[Jackrabbit1957]

Just be sure to put in the right size gas bushing, don't want it to fling things into the next county.

[armoredman]

I'm trying to visualize a full auto Hawken...

[LAGS]

You can't miss what they probably looked like.
They had a Pistol Grip stock shaped like a Kentucky Pistol.

[LAGS]

The one thing that is taking up most of my time in doing this project is making the Jigs and tools to do the repairs.
Like clamps and jigs to hold the lock to fill in the holes from the previously drilled holes in the lock from the mis laid out lock mounting screws.
Or the lapping tools to fix the barrel in a first class manor.
Planning out and making the tools to Correct issues is as important as to doing the correction .
You don't want to try to fix something , and damage or mark up your parts.

[armoredman]

On the other hand you will have all those tools available the next time Bubba sends something your way. :D

[LAGS]

It depends on what tools or jigs that I have to make.
The tools are kind of specialized to certain brands or models.
And I don't always work on that model with a lot of these issues.
And this gun is a Lefty.
I have never had one like this in left hand.

[armoredman]

And more pics,

50
https://i.imgur.com/Cpt5UBn.jpg

51
https://i.imgur.com/q9LjT53.jpg

52
https://i.imgur.com/LXrhfTV.jpg

53
https://i.imgur.com/j7QaFNv.jpg

54
https://i.imgur.com/Wt0XOZh.jpg

55
https://i.imgur.com/xzL88rc.jpg

56
https://i.imgur.com/P6p7KCk.jpg

57
https://i.imgur.com/WqoRGs3.jpg

58
https://i.imgur.com/xvrerQD.jpg

[LAGS]

The trigger is bedded and re inletted.
I also made the Lapping Slug to fix the barrel.
Look how good that rifling is.
This gun was worth rebuilding for sure.

[LAGS]

Pictures #57& 58 were made in the cut off section of the barrel.
All I did was put a patch lubed with Johnson Paste Wax on a cleaning jag that fits the bore.
Then coated the inside if the bore several times.
Then ran the cleaning rod and jag with the Lubed patch into one end of the barrel.
I stopped about 2" from the other end of the barrel.
Then that last 2" of bore was filled with JB Kwik Weld epoxy.
Make sure that you don't trap any air bubbles in the epoxy.
This epoxy Sets in about 5 minutes.
But let it cure for about 5 hours.
Then you pound the slug out with the ramrod and jag that is already left in the bore.
It does take a little effort to break the slug loose the first time.
If it won't break free , then warm up the barrel a bit to break it loose , or Freeze the barrel.
Now use a Large diameter cleaning rod.
Not some skinny 22 cal aluminium rod , or it will bend.
There is a way you can make up a jig to do one of these from just the muzzle end if you can't or don't want to pull out the bore plug.
I will drill a hole thru the slug and mount it on a rod with a thru screw so it can be used like a cleaning rod to polish out the bore.
One thing to watch for is Indexing of the slug to the bore.
Keep the rifling lined up to the groove that it was cast in.
I just mark the end of the barrel and the end of one end of the slug to match up.

[armoredman]

Learning tons of stuff.

[LAGS]

One thing I should mention ,
I Do Not use the JB steel weld or the Gorilla Weld.
The Gorilla Weld eats thru the release agent.
So your slug sticks in the bore.
If you guys want to try something like this , I would recommend you play with the epoxy and release agent on a piece of scrap steel.
It is better that you know how your material is going to work before you start working on your final parts.

[armoredman]

59
https://i.imgur.com/hfWvwkC.jpg

60
https://i.imgur.com/STMuqAF.jpg

61
https://i.imgur.com/jaiot4H.jpg

[LAGS]

These are pictures from inside of the barrel.
I was able to use a Flat headded screw , screwed in tight to the outside of the barrel.
I then measure the screw and remove it so I could file off any excess screw that protruded into the bore.
When Very Close , I then used that lapping tool that I made to lap off any burs and get it to fit as close as I could to the rifling.
It ain't perfect , but is a whole lot better than the set screws that bubba use.
There is less than .002" depression from the bottom of the grooves on my plugs.
Those left a void in the barrel at each screw that collected lots of dirt.
That void was over 1/8" deep on the barrel when I got it.
If Bubba would have drilled and tapped the barrel at true 90° to the bore , then I could have fitted the plugs so they could be lapped closer to the bore.
Then the only marks that would be left in the barrel would be the minor chips around the drilled and tapped hole.
The flat head screw was countersunk a few thousand into the outside of the barrel.
That way , when it is tightened in with red locktite , the head can be filed off flush with the barrel outside.
Then the screw retains a little flair to prevent it from ever moving down deeper into the bore.

[armoredman]

62
https://i.imgur.com/dDwJpXQ.jpg

63
https://i.imgur.com/0TzLixC.jpg

64
https://i.imgur.com/WmWQdu4.jpg

[LAGS]

These are the types of screws that I used.
As you can see in pic #63 , there is a partial countersink for the base of the screw head to bottom out into.
Then the remaining screw head will be filed flat to the outside of the barrel.

[armoredman]

And now, for more.

65
https://i.imgur.com/NocQ20z.jpg

66
https://i.imgur.com/UFlDeey.jpg

67
https://i.imgur.com/99fXQWc.jpg

68
https://i.imgur.com/nCaglli.jpg

69
https://i.imgur.com/AyOZVTf.jpg

[LAGS]

Pic #65 & 66 show how the thru drilled holes were plugged with the under barrel rib mounting screws looked from inside the bore when I received the rifle from Armoredman.
There was about 1/8" recess inside the barrel at three different spots.
Actually .140" to be exact.
Those depressions would probably collect lots of fouling every time the gun was fired.
Then these depressions would be hard to clean out.
Picture #67 shows the new screws that I set up in two of the holes in the barrel.
There is less than .001" depression now inside the bore.
There is way less chance of it collection crud , and can be cleaned out much easier.
Pics #68 & 69 show the flat head screws that I used to fill the holes.
Then the heads of the screws were filed off so they didn't cause problems remounting the barrel under rib.
This also prevents someone from removing the screws , or the screws ever screwing down deeper into the bore.
I will drill new holes to re mount the barrel under rib and set them up properly as not to be drilled all the way into the bore.
This should be all the work related to the title of the thread about repairing a Bubba'ed issue inside the barrel.
I think I may start another thread on the repairs to the stock and other parts of this rifle.
Some of those items were covered already in this thread.
But by the title of the thread , some people would not look at it.
But not too many of you will be doing this kind of work on repairing a barrel issue.
So the new thread will be a quicker reference to the work most of you will be looking to do.
And most of the Muzzleloading Refurbishment involves the Stock Issues.
It is also more of things that most of you can do yourself.
There is one more thing I will do with the barrel related to this thread.
I am going to modify my test stand for Proof Testing my barrels.
I have to switch it to fit a Left Hand Lock.
I want to proof test this barrel with double maximum load.
Not because I don't trust my work.
But this barrel was Bubba'ed , and I want proof that it is truly safe.
I had also Proof Tested the barrel on the Renagade that I sold to Armoredman so I was sure there were no issues even though it has a great bore.

[armoredman]

Epic.

[armoredman]

70
https://i.imgur.com/ywcvrnt.jpg

71
https://i.imgur.com/OXGdc5e.jpg

72
https://i.imgur.com/OXGdc5e.jpg

73
https://i.imgur.com/zXgvNVv.jpg

74
https://i.imgur.com/8az0RP7.jpg

[LAGS]

This is pictures of how I fixed the hole in the stock for the barrel wedge.
The wedge would not go thru the stock , plus was too short.
The barrel was also inletted to deep into the stock.
So when the repairs on the stock were finished and I bedded the barrel channel , the wedge had to be relocated.
I filled the old holes with Maple.
Then redrilled the hole to a point where it worked properly.
I measured the lay out with a tool I made from a square with a pin glued to the tip to reach what I wanted to measure.
The the holes were redrilled on my drill press using a locating pin lined up with the drill bit to assure the hole went thru the stock level and in a straight line.
More pictures of my set up and how far off the original holes were compared to now.
These pictures are from one side of the stock.
You will see how far off the other side is too.

[725]

Wow - this really is a major job. Well done.

[LAGS]

Doing these things to a rifle for a friend is very satisfying.

[armoredman]

And next...

75
https://i.imgur.com/4voOP9H.jpg

76
https://i.imgur.com/OhIKFFq.jpg

77
https://i.imgur.com/MyTeXff.jpg

78
https://i.imgur.com/yYwCZ9Q.jpg

[LAGS]

Today's work.
Because the builder had filed the hole for the Wedge bigger to get it to fit.
I made New inlays and recessed them into the stock so they are easier on your hand when the gun is fired.
Now the wedge holds the barrel down snug and the wedge doesn't fall out.

[armoredman]

Sorry, couldn't get the pics done quick enough. Next ones.

79
https://i.imgur.com/Ymm3Del.jpg

80
https://i.imgur.com/v6pcu4N.jpg

81
https://i.imgur.com/T3SwVDP.jpg

[LAGS]

A couple of days ago,
I redid the dovetail for the modified rear sight.
Then I cut the dovetail for the front sight now that I shortened the barrel.
I then shortened and remounted the under barrel rib and thimbles.
Now the thimbles are for a 7/16" ramrod.
The stock is drilled for a 3/8" ramrod.
Since the stock was Bubba'ed so much in the barrel channel, I decided not to drill out the stock for a 7/16" ramrod.
To save the owner money , and not have to order and buy new thimbles , I put in some brass tubing soldered into the thimbles to bring them down to 3/8" inside diameter.
I also mounted the thimbles to the under rib with 6/48 screws and mounted the under rib to the barrel with 3 - 6/48 screws.
The rifle is coming along.
Next week when I get back into town.
I am going to build the test stand to proof test the barrel now that it is complete , except for Re browning it.
And I will start Refitting the Poorly fit curved butt plate to the stock.

[armoredman]

Yay!

[LAGS]

I got back in town , and now am working on the rifle again.
I will be working on re fitting the butt plate to the stock.
I finished up a cradle I made for proof testing the barrel.
Hopefully I will have a chance to get to the range and proof test it.
Once Proofed , I will then start working on the metal finishes.

[Woodnbow]

This is great stuff. You’re quite a craftsman LAGS… and a very good friend.

[armoredman]

And more pics!

82
https://i.imgur.com/ZOCSaST.jpg

83
https://i.imgur.com/Nj7dljz.jpg

84 - the gap is so big, the camera focused on the far wall!
https://i.imgur.com/wcYUleJ.jpg

85
https://i.imgur.com/tHUEzOk.jpg

86
https://i.imgur.com/5EPuLND.jpg

87
https://i.imgur.com/O9Ktfzv.jpg

Has there ever been a restoration so carefully chronicled...:smile:

[armoredman]

This is great stuff. You’re quite a craftsman LAGS… and a very good friend.

Yes, and yes he is.

[Sasquatch-1]

85
https://i.imgur.com/tHUEzOk.jpg

86
https://i.imgur.com/5EPuLND.jpg

87
https://i.imgur.com/O9Ktfzv.jpg
:

I am assuming (and we all know how dangerous that is :groner:) that the jig is for holding the barrel tight while filing slots for sights and things of that nature. What are the two levers by the tang for?

[Texas by God]

This is a great thread! Onward and upward, great work. The proofing fixture is very neat.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[LAGS]

The Levers are the Lock.
Home made for sure.
But it is only for firing the barrel from a distance with a long string.
I made a testing cradle for my Thompson's very similar .
But this rifle was left handed and a totally different tang set up.
@sasquatch 1
I guess One could use this jig for other barrel work like you said.
Like maybe drilling the barrel , or installing the sight dovetails.
But I have my barrel vise with wood blocks that I use to hold the barrel for some of that work.
But thank you.
It may give others a home made suggestion for something they can make and not have to buy all the professional tools since they don't do a lot of work like I do.

[LAGS]

The Levers are the Lock.
Home made for sure.
But it is only for firing the barrel from a distance with a long string.
I made a testing cradle for my Thompson's very similar .
But this rifle was left handed and a totally different tang set up.

[Sasquatch-1]

Now that you have explained it, I can see how it works. Nice setup.

[LAGS]

As it stands right now,
The plan is to Proof Test the barrel this Friday.
Hopefully we can post some pictures of that happening.
I am sure there are a few of you , who want to see how this is done.
And I bet you have a barrel sitting around that you would want to proof test it before shooting it from your shoulder.
One note.
Proof testing the barrel with a double load of powder , and double the load of boolits or balls , in a very HEAVY load.
It can be very hard on the stock.
That is why I opt to Proof Test the barrel on a Cradle without a stock.
I don't want to end up with a barrel that will hold up to the test , and crack the stock in the testing.

[centershot]

You can't miss what they probably looked like.
They had a Pistol Grip stock shaped like a Kentucky Pistol.

And a flash suppressor. :bigsmyl2:

[725]

Would love to see the proof testing pictures.

[LAGS]

The barrel did get proof tested today.
The barrel held up fine.
Now it is time to start prepping the metal for bluing and sand the stock for refinishing.

[armoredman]

Pictures? Pictures you say? How about video?
https://youtu.be/DJLcKGfSSSA

[armoredman]

But for those who don't like video...

88
https://i.imgur.com/JseVZFr.jpg

89
https://i.imgur.com/xHhF2VI.jpg

90
https://i.imgur.com/9Hm9PZ8.jpg

91
https://i.imgur.com/HCmoXqG.jpg

92
https://i.imgur.com/sKkh9Gu.jpg

93
https://i.imgur.com/yClTWBA.jpg

94
https://i.imgur.com/EgJYX80.jpg

[armoredman]

That test stand is SOLID. Sorry, we did not test for accuracy... :D

[LAGS]

That test cradle, is very solid.
It would make a good stand for accuracy testing.
That is provided that the lock mechanism was refined , or a regular lock be used.

[725]

That rifle is going to end up the best de-bubbafied lefty around. Eager to see the finished version and hear the range reports.

[armoredman]

I think this is the most watched and best documented de-Bubbafying ever done.

[armoredman]

And more photos!

95
https://i.imgur.com/ZrLmIJK.jpg

96
https://i.imgur.com/fHa4o89.jpg

97
https://i.imgur.com/kXBhbjR.jpg

98
https://i.imgur.com/SaPw0ed.jpg

99
https://i.imgur.com/tnTSpIE.jpg

[LAGS]

The rifle is finally coming together.
That is the first coat of stain on the stock.
The metal is being Slow Rust Blued.
It will take a couple more days to get all the parts finished and re assembled.

[725]

Looks like more figure in that stock than I first thought. It's going to look good.

[armoredman]

Dagnabbit, I posted one pic wrong, and can't fix it from here.

[LAGS]

The stock was looking OK.
But I decided to strip off the finish and try another color of stain.
I M O
The finish just was not as even as I like.
But then , that is just me.
The metal is on its final boiling and looks very good.

[armoredman]

Sweet.:-P

[armoredman]

Looking good!

100
https://i.imgur.com/BxbLPFB.jpg

101
https://i.imgur.com/99DBn1q.jpg

102
http://i.imgur.com/HRbejnm.jpg (https://imgur.com/HRbejnm)

[LAGS]

The metal parts are all Rust Blued and I got the new color on the stock.
To me,
The stock looks a lot better.
The pictures of the blued parts is a little deceptive.
The parts were final rusted and boiled.
But instead of carding off the metal parts, I coated them with 3 in 1 machine oil.
And will let it cure overnight , then wipe all the black dust that is still on the metal.
That is why the parts look so shiny and like hot blue.
They will be a Matt Blue because I bead blasted the parts before bluing.

[725]

! It's gittin' there.

[Wayne Smith]

What stain did you end up using? I'm considering soaking a couple cigars in water to make a stain for Maple.

[todd9.3x57]

just for science. do not attempt this at home.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug

[LAGS]

This color of stain on the stock is the
Dark Walnut by Varathane.
The first try on the stain was with the American Walnut color.
That color seemed to be a little more red but looked good.
Many , many years ago.
I did a stock in Tobacco soaked in Alcohol.
It colored the wood ok.
But that is a basic type of stain , and I don't know how well it held up since I sold the rifle.
Now for finishing the metal.
I did the Rust Blue with Doc Hawkens rust bluing liquid.
There are 4 layers of rust bluing on these parts

[armoredman]

I hate watching good rifles destroyed for jollies. I dn't think even LAGS could restore those guns, especially the grenaded one.
This is why, however, that I store BLACK powder far and away from my smokeless powder.
LAGS, what color is tobacco stain?

[LAGS]

The stain I made was a Reddish Brown color.
It did not apply evenly to the wood , but did stain it after several applications.
I also use to do Tiger sripping on stocks using the tobacco stain.
I would mix the Chewing Tobacco ( Red Man ) with alcohol for a week.
Then I soaked a cotton cord in the mix and let it soak up the stain.
I would ring out the cotton cord so it was only damp.
Then I wrapped the cord around the stock.
I let it sit for a few days.
When the cord was removed , the places where the rope hit hardest were the darkest stripes.
But the tobacco stain being uneven in places , made it look more like natural figuring in the wood.
I would then clear coat the stock with linseed oil or Tru Oil to seal it up.
The stocks looked great from about 5 feet away.
I use to do that on the Cheap Kits I use to buy , that had plain maple stocks.
The striping of the stock Upped the looks greatly.

[armoredman]

Well, that answers my question completely. Pass on the Red Man - I smoke a pipe. :mrgreen:
Just had the boy watch those two fine rifles, (why does he keep calling them muskets?!?), get destroyed by IV888. He was suitably impressed.

[LAGS]

Pipe Tobacco will work.
It just takes more tobacco because it is loose and dried out.

[Sasquatch-1]

I read somewhere that "Tobacco Tea" is also good for repelling spiders.

I believe the rifles in the video sacrificed their lives for a good cause.

I can't remember who posted it, but there is one out there about blowing up powder horns and flask that is quite illuminating.

[LAGS]

I re assembled the rifle last night.
Boy , does she look GREAT.
I still have to finish the new ramrod , and do some minor adjustments.
I have to adjust the hammer a bit by bending , so the hammer strikes the primer totally centered.
I am also going to do a little adjustment on the trigger so it lightens up the pull a little bit.
The trigger works fine with the set trigger.
But the front trigger not being set is a little heavy for my liking.
I can't wait until Armoredman and his son get to fire the rifle.
To me.
This has been one successful project.

[725]

Pictures - pictures. Inquiring minds want to know............... :)

[LAGS]

I am sorry.
I don't post the pictures.
I have Armoredman do that since he can work computers.
But I did send him the latest pictures.
I hope you guys are impressed with how the rifle turned out.
It goes to show all of you , that many rifles can be salvaged or just Improved.
And lots of the work isn't that hard , or take a lot of tools.

[armoredman]

Hang on to your hats, boys, this one is great.....

[armoredman]

The way it began.

Held by the end user, my scrawny son.
https://i.imgur.com/ba0r4Ei.jpg

At the shop - I got it for about $100 less than the tag says.
https://i.imgur.com/msrhjgd.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/IqJqC9v.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/zJfH4Zy.jpg

How that side looks NOW. That tang screw is up due to LAGS looking at installing a tang sight.
https://i.imgur.com/5hUqpdR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ur1qoXY.jpg

Right side, previous.
https://i.imgur.com/LbQPf7y.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/mnMjnyf.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/pGU5IY7.jpg

Right side NOW.
https://i.imgur.com/N4eGzdR.jpg

[HumptyDumpty]

That's beautifully done.:drinks:

[LAGS]

I tried looking at a used tang sight I have from an old Winchester.
Too bad it doesn't fit.
I think this rifle is going to be a good long range rifle.

[armoredman]

My son saw the photos and is much excited.

[LAGS]

There are a few things that can be upgraded on this rifle if it is your preference.
Like adding patch box , a lock side plate or adjustable sights.
But let's see how this rifle shoots and if they really want to do upgrades.

[725]

! Night & day difference. Well done. The blueing really sets it off.

[LAGS]

That Bluing was done with Doc Hawkens Bluing that I got from www.thehawkendoctor.com
It works well and lasts forever.
I also got the new nipple from the same sight at a good price.
I also get things like Carding Wheels , carding Brushes and other stuff to do my bluing.

[armoredman]

Mmmm adjustable sights....

[LAGS]

Adjustable sights from other models of rifles can be made to fit this barrel.
Like from TC Renagade with 1" barrels.
They also have aftermarket sights like Williams that are Hi Viz that can be used.
You just have to decide on what type of sight you like best.

[LAGS]

Just to keep you guys in the loop.
We plan to take the finished rifle out next week and test fire the completed rifle.
I am all jazzed that the owner gets to see what he ended up with.
I think you guys too are waiting to see the results.
My wife intends on going with us also.
It will be the first time we are shooting the .32 Traditions " Crockett " rifle kit that I built for her.
She has never fired a ML yet
But she is an excellent Rifle shooter.
Now , Handguns.
That is a whole different story.
But speaking of Handguns.
I also plan to take out a .45 cal ML pistol I built for another member out of Misc parts he sent me.
So this one is kind of a scratch built custom pistol.

[725]

Whoo Hoo. More to come later on that!

[indian joe]

Adjustable sights from other models of rifles can be made to fit this barrel.
Like from TC Renagade with 1" barrels.
They also have aftermarket sights like Williams that are Hi Viz that can be used.
You just have to decide on what type of sight you like best.

I shoot my muzzleloaders (patched ball) with fixed sights - never thought it was a hindrance - set em up crack on at 100yards - with a decent load you be 2 - 3" high at 50 - shoot enough to get familiar with it then its a lot quicker/easier to compensate than adjust the dang sight

[LAGS]

I agree with you Joe.
But a lot of people are all modern and like the Looks of the more modern sights.
Plus being Adjustable , it makes it easier for people to get the rifle Zeroed in at that 100 yard mark .
And some people like me , where their eyesight is not as good as it use to be , the modern sights are easier to see.
I do have a Hi Viz sight on one of my Hawkens for hunting in low light like early morning conditions.
But To each his own.
Use what works for you.
I have a scope mount for one rifle.
But prefer not to use a scope.
But who knows.
My eyes may get worse in years to come , so I will hold on to that mount for now.
Also.
Most adjustable Modern sights are taller.
That can be a factor for some people to get a better sighting picture.

[indian joe]

I agree with you Joe.
But a lot of people are all modern and like the Looks of the more modern sights.
Plus being Adjustable , it makes it easier for people to get the rifle Zeroed in at that 100 yard mark .
And some people like me , where their eyesight is not as good as it use to be , the modern sights are easier to see.
I do have a Hi Viz sight on one of my Hawkens for hunting in low light like early morning conditions.
But To each his own.
Use what works for you.
I have a scope mount for one rifle.
But prefer not to use a scope.
But who knows.
My eyes may get worse in years to come , so I will hold on to that mount for now.
Also.
Most adjustable Modern sights are taller.
That can be a factor for some people to get a better sighting picture.

Yeah it can be a bit of a fiddle getting sorted first off - I think most of my deal is I just dont like the look of the adjustable sights that come on some muzzleloaders -

I put a tall set of sights on one of mine to counteract a too straight stock - after I tried oil bending it - got it to move about a half inch but needed more - funny thing - good wood (walnut or the dark brazilian stuff) bent easy - this was a cheap beech stock and it didnt want to cooperate

Eyes are a problem !!! (old ones are anyways) --- long barrel -- move the backsite down a bit -- big wide front sight (1/8" or better) --

I have had a couple good shooting ball guns I woulda liked to put a decent (modern) scope on just to see what we could do - never did it

You did great work - that young feller is gonna have some fun - hope he keeps at it

[LAGS]

I too have put on Taller sights to counteract a rifle that the drop in the butt stock was too flat.
That one is a Traditions , St Louis Hawken kit that I built.
I didn't want to reshape the stock , because it fit others just fine.
It is just my long arms and long neck that makes the stocks for my rifles require more drop in the stock for the sights to line up for me.
But there are other options you can try if your rifle sighting line up doesn't work for you.

[armoredman]

We will see what the boy wants, but first, he makes smoke! Then we see! No matter what I pay, it can never be enough for this labor of love

[armoredman]

Anyone up for the final verdict? [smilie=w:

[armoredman]

First, for those who like video with music and action, ( not EXACTLY Hollywood quality, of course), and the secret surprise is only found in the video...

YouTube approved, finally.

https://youtu.be/y8ANlNFYK5E

But not everyone like watching YouTube, and I can't blame them.

So, here we go!

Here he is finally getting hands on, and he is quite happy - he usually doesn't smile big.

https://i.imgur.com/pvieYRV.jpg

PURTY!

https://i.imgur.com/1rI0qtv.jpg

Time for some hands on education.

https://i.imgur.com/YKv2Gki.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/veonoIK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gdzkyaY.jpg

The excitement builds

https://i.imgur.com/P9718xu.jpg

It must have patch, THEN ball...

https://i.imgur.com/hj0zzPw.jpg

Cap it!

https://i.imgur.com/n8GYJHO.jpg

Moment of truth.

https://i.imgur.com/1jYndnI.jpg

First round ever fired by this kid through this rifle, first time it's been fired since being deBubba'd, (which SHOULD be an official term!), and that's pretty darn respectable. The X'd out group was me verifying a 50 yard zero on a MUCH different rifle...

https://i.imgur.com/VziLc5J.jpg

[armoredman]

But he wasn't done. Look carefully over the top of the white painted target - that black speck is the ball in the air.

https://i.imgur.com/8FZ8j5Q.jpg

Two shot group, standing 50 yards, fixed iron sights.

https://i.imgur.com/pSlS2gt.jpg

I painted over that so he dumped one dead center.

https://i.imgur.com/wvkJ0sW.jpg

Happy son!

https://i.imgur.com/zLsSGLT.jpg

And a parting message.

https://i.imgur.com/pSNcxqz.jpg

[LAGS]

That was a great day.
Now there is another BP shooter.
And he didn't do too bad for his first time with this rifle and the type it is.
I am so happy that he was pleased with the restoration on the rifle.

[LAGS]

In that picture that you can see the ball flying halfway to the target.
You can also see the Patch flying halfway behind it to the rifle which still has sparks around the muzzle.

[armoredman]

And YouTube said we can watch the video!

https://youtu.be/y8ANlNFYK5E

[LAGS]

I am really impressed with that rifles accuracy for the first time it was shot after repair.
And by a person that had Never shot that rifle before.
Now Remember.
This is the Bubba'ed rifle that had TWO holes drilled all the way into the bore.
So , Filling the holes with screws really works , if done properly.
So I am impressed that the part that started this thread , has proved to be repairable.

[armoredman]

Incredible work, sir.

[725]

LAGS, "the magnificent", per the video is right on. Well done de-bubbafication of a nightmare piece. That young man had an appreciative smile that Dad will remember for a long time. Even though it's been reported that the shooter never fired a ML before, it is obvious he has shooting skills. Hope he enjoys his new rifle for a long time. I know he will remember it all with a smile long after his own kids are shown their first gun.
The added bonus footage of the ML pistol made me smile. More to come on that build as soon as I get the photos collated and get them onto the site.
Well done, LAGS.

[armoredman]

I'm a little surprised with all the views on this thread that there wasn't more comments after it was all done. However, it is pretty well established that LAGS really knows how to "rescue" a muzzleloader!

[smilie=w::2_high5::awesome:

[725]

me, too.

[LAGS]

I am very pleased with the number of Views this thread has had.
This thread started off Asking for Your Opinions on a barrel repair that I was doing.
And it ventured into a full explanation of other or related issues that this rifle had.
I like showing you guys that Things can be fixed.
But by me doing a post like this, I am also asking for your help.
Not in just the repairs , but comments on repairs I might be able to help you make or that are needed.
I like to help others and promote this BP Sport.
I have received a few PM's from members about issues they needed advice on.
But don't be shy,
Share your questions on the forum.
There are many others that may have a better fix or opinion than I do.
Don't feel that you are the only one with a problem.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey LAGS really appreciate you having the desire to share your knowledge! I also do black powder gunsmithing, mostly tuning on revolvers but occasionally do other things. I like to help out as well and feel that this knowledge should be passed along. Never cared for those folks that think their knowledge is a deep dark secret. Keep doing what you're doing!

[LAGS]

Just an update.
I have watched the rifle being shot several times.
Everything is working excellent.
The kid LOVES that rifle.
And it is very accurate.
He is also shooting it with Homemade BP and Homemade Primer caps

[armoredman]

Nowadays it's the only thing he wants to shoot! :D

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello LAGS,

I don't know how I missed this post.
I went back and read all the way through,
what a project and what a fantastic job.

Thanks for sharing, AntiqueSledMan.

[LAGS]

Thank You A.S.M.
I am glad that you are impressed.
We did the thread just to show you guys that Rifles can be saved.
And there are lots of things that many of you can actually do at home.
I do my work in my garage , and don't have a ton of specialized professional tools.
But this thread can also point out things to watch for or do if you build a kit.

[armoredman]

Just passed this thread on to some other people who might also be interested.

[LAGS]

I keep getting questions from members that lots of the questions can be somewhat answered in this post.
But if you have more questions , feel free to PM me.
I love helping others