Using Specials in Magnum question...

[Typecaster]

I know that using .22 Shorts in a LR chamber can erode the chamber.

How about using a LOT of .38 or .44 Specials in the magnum chambers? Will that cause erosion as well? I stopped using the shorter cartridges, just use "special" loads in the magnum cases. Was that necessary? (I've got a WHOLE bunch of Special brass.)

Along the same thought, how about .44 Special/Mag in a .444 Marlin? I've got a Highwall in .44 Mag that I've been thinking of rechambering to .444 just so I don't have to worry about hot rifle loads accidentally being used in a peestol. Is that just too much freebore?

Thanks,

Richard

[FN in MT]

Your going to get a dozen of opinions on THIS one. I've shot tens of thousands of rds of .38 Spcl out of Smith 19's , 66's and especially my old duty gun M-28. I'd clean the chambers every few sessions....never had a problem.

BUT..... I do have to add...... I have seen M-19 and M-66 Smiths fed a steady diet of Special cases WITHOUT a THOROUGH CLEANING...have problems extracting magnum brass after a mag load was fired in those DIRTY chambers. Then again pushing with a thumb on the extractor rod doesn't yield a heck of a lot of mechanical force. NONE of them required anything more than a shot of WD-40 or some KROIL, let it sit, then CAREFULLY tap the ext rod against the corner of a bench or whatever.

I also saw a .454 Casull fed a mess of .45 Colts REALLY lock up when FACTORY .454 Casull loads were fired in those dirty chambers. But the working pressure of the Casull is certainly not typical of a .357 or .44 mag.

I try to NOT fire shorter cases in mag cylinders. Sometimes I DO and I've never lost any sleep over it.

FN in MT

[No_1]

Hello old friend,

Been a while. Hope everything is well on your end.

I must agree (from experience) with what FN n MT says regarding 38. / 357 and 44 sp / 44 Mag. As far as shooting the 44 in the 444 chamber the obvious problem of a almost 1" free-bore is probably not as big a concern as the difference in case diameter at the base. The 44 Mag is .457" and the 444 is .470" (sammi specs). You will get some serious case deformation and possible case separation at the base (opinion, not experience).

On another note, how about an update on the 30-40? I have been using those .22 bullets you sent in a 218 Mashburn bee and they have been working out very well. If you have more you are interested in selling please let me know via PM.

Take care my brother,

Robert

[Scrounger]

I wonder if it's feasible/possible to get a cylinder for a S&W 686 chambered for .38 Special only? Or such a chamber in .44 Special for a RedHawk?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Don't you use 44/40 ammo when you want a gallery or light load in a 444? I sort of remember reading this somewhere, probably here. Should do a search of the site :)

[Bret4207]

I'm with Fn, I've never had an erosion issue, but cruddy chambers cause problems extracting.

[Willbird]

I highly doubt anybody can show erosion caused by firing modern smokeless non corrosive 22 short ammo in a 22lr chamber. Also I highly doubt that such can be shown for 38 in 357 or 44 special in 44 magnum.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

wouldnt worry me any.

[leadman]

You could have your Hi-Wall rechambered to 445 SuperMag. Although this is a pistol round, there are not many of them on the market now. I had an H&R Shikari and a T/C Super 14 rechambered to this. Gives you 200-300 or so feet per second more, but accuracy with 44 mag. in 445 SM chamber decreased slightly.

[beagle]

Been shooting specials in magnum chambers for 50 years now with no adverse problems.

As has been pointed out, when shooting mags in a chamber used with specials, you need to clean good with a bronze brush and solvent to remove the fouling or hard extraction will result.

I have a Colt Python that has over 20K rounds in it and most have been .38 Specials. It's as good as the day that I bought it in 1958.

The same applies to my M1894 Marlin Cowboy. No chamber damage after many, many thousands of .38 rounds./beagle

[garandsrus]

I have a S&W 686 in 357 Mag that is set up for PPC shooting with 38's. There is some "missing metal" in the cylinder in front of the 38 case mouth in each cylinder. I believe it is due to a steady diet of the shorter cases, but don't know for sure. I will see if I can take a picture of it next time I clean it.

I am not the original owner of the pistol, so I have no idea how many thousands of rounds have gone through it. It still shoots great...

John

[Typecaster]

No. 1—

OOPS! Robert, you're absolutely right about the base diameter. I was thinking about the .44 and .444 both using .429 boolets, and didn't think about the "other" end. Although...I could wrap a layer or two of Scotch tape just above the rim to center the .44 case in the chamber (I've done this with a 6.5 Jap with an oversize chamber and a 38 Win Express (38-90) using .405 Basic cases). Case walls still expand, but it's concentric. It's really all hypothetical, as I have a bunch of .444 cases (and 44-40s as well).

Everything is relatively stable here. We took our two sons and their wives to NOLA for the week before Christmas...trying to single-handedly rebuild the economy. Absolutely perfect visit to one of our favorite cities—highlights included lots of good drink (Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop), music (Preservation Hall, Snug Harbor twice, Maple Leaf), and food (Camelia Grill, Acme Oyster House 4 times, Frankie & Johnnies, Cochon, Antoine's (including a personal tour), and topped it off with Christmas Eve dinner at Commander's Palace). Devastation after Katrina is still sad to see, but we got to visit a couple of the houses at Musician's Village that #2 son and wife worked on. It's still really hard on #1 son to visit some areas even though he's been back half a dozen times for business and pleasure...he had restaurant co-workers who lived in the Lower Ninth. Whew! Talk about off-topic...but I'm going to leave it in case somebody wants a recommendation.

No real progress on the Krag, I'm afraid. OTOH, I'm getting ready to cast some Lee .311 RBs. I bet one of those over a little powder wouldn't be too much for the indoor bullet trap. 45 grains isn't much over a .22.

Take care,

Richard

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have a S&W 19 and # 13 down here. Shootings 38 special the Acuracy is not on par with my 2 revolvers. That extra jump to the cylinder throat does it no good. I buy 38 special ammo and reload the "Fixings" into my 357 brass and live with the fps loss. But I also swap projectils and load my 165 swc or 162 wc boolits so I loose little.
Other than some acuracy loss no problem. But I rarely do it.
God Bless you ! Mike

[mag_01]

No problem using 38 in a magnum - Just clean your chambers

[lead Foot]

I load my 357 Dan Wesson with the 200g RCBS rn in 38 cases for silhouette with no fouling in the chamber. I seat them 2 thou below the cylinder. I use 13gr of AR2205 (H2205) @ 1150fps.14gr in the 357mag case delivers the same speed I can't work that one out?

[No_1]

The tape idea would work but you still have to deal with about ~1" chamber jump for the bullet to get to the barrel. Why not just load the 444 down using unique or 2400? You could end up with something better than trying to shoot the 44 in it.

I was working in Mississippi about a year ago and went over to NOLA for a visit with Walltube (who survived the hurricane). He took me around to see how things looked (including a drive thru the 9th ward) then we went back to his place where his lovely wife made me a great home cooked dinner. We chatted about the area but that turned the mood was somber. I spent 6 years there from '73-'79 and will say things look and are very different now.....

On another note, I was thinking about a shortened 444 catridge, something that could be used in a short barrel contender. Maybe 1/2 way between 44 Mag length and 444 length. I guess you could almost call it is 44 MAX. I have a barrel that I can work with and 20 new cases on hand but need to get some used for testing purposes before I start.

Take care and tell us how the RB deal works out.

Robert



No. 1—

OOPS! Robert, you're absolutely right about the base diameter. I was thinking about the .44 and .444 both using .429 boolets, and didn't think about the "other" end. Although...I could wrap a layer or two of Scotch tape just above the rim to center the .44 case in the chamber (I've done this with a 6.5 Jap with an oversize chamber and a 38 Win Express (38-90) using .405 Basic cases). Case walls still expand, but it's concentric. It's really all hypothetical, as I have a bunch of .444 cases (and 44-40s as well).

Everything is relatively stable here. We took our two sons and their wives to NOLA for the week before Christmas...trying to single-handedly rebuild the economy. Absolutely perfect visit to one of our favorite cities—highlights included lots of good drink (Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop), music (Preservation Hall, Snug Harbor twice, Maple Leaf), and food (Camelia Grill, Acme Oyster House 4 times, Frankie & Johnnies, Cochon, Antoine's (including a personal tour), and topped it off with Christmas Eve dinner at Commander's Palace). Devastation after Katrina is still sad to see, but we got to visit a couple of the houses at Musician's Village that #2 son and wife worked on. It's still really hard on #1 son to visit some areas even though he's been back half a dozen times for business and pleasure...he had restaurant co-workers who lived in the Lower Ninth. Whew! Talk about off-topic...but I'm going to leave it in case somebody wants a recommendation.

No real progress on the Krag, I'm afraid. OTOH, I'm getting ready to cast some Lee .311 RBs. I bet one of those over a little powder wouldn't be too much for the indoor bullet trap. 45 grains isn't much over a .22.

Take care,

Richard

[Scrounger]

Too late, No_1, somebody beat you to it (Elgin Gates?) and named it the .445 Super Magnum.

[No_1]

And that uses the 444 case as a base? I will have to research it.

Thanks,

Robert


Too late, No_1, somebody beat you to it (Elgin Gates?) and named it the .445 Super Magnum.

[Scrounger]

Not sure. It might have same base dimensions as the .44 Mag, just longer.

[No_1]

The idea I was thinking about would allow a bad 44 chamber to be cleaned up using a shortened 444 reamer with the benefit of improving on the 44 MAG ballistic's for a handgun without having to deal with 444 recoil AND it would be something different....

Robert

[redbear705]

For the guys and girls that use alot of lead specials in magnum chambers just get a chamber reamer from Dave Manson at Manson precision Reamers.

A few light turns with it during your cleaning sessions remove the crud.

The reamers are not that expensive to purchase but can be rented out on occasion to help defray the cost of purchase. Personaly I will clean a cylinder for a fellow shooter but I perform the task as I dont want them to ruin their cylinders by applying too much pressure and cutting it.

http://www.mansonreamers.com/

I dont work for Dave but I do know him and shoot IDPA with him on occasion...he is a top notch guy to deal with!

JR

[GP100man]

is`nt the 358156s lower crimp groove supose to take care of the jump when usimg spl. cases in mag cyl???
this is what i`ve been doing , it does`nt eliminate it but sure cuts down on the build up!!!!

GP100man:cbpour:

[Jetwrench]

Scrounger, no_1,

Elgin Gates did do the 445 Supermag. It is a 44mag case (1.290) lengthened to 1.600. Starline did make brass, but I dont know if they still do. Jetwrench

[Blazin]

Starline did make brass, but I dont know if they still do.

Still available: http://www.starlinebrass.com/

[Scrounger]

Those reamers are a bit pricey to me. Seems to me Buckshot's Tool Works could turn out a simple chamber reamer (designed to cut crud, not steel) in any caliber for less than a ten spot.

[xpshooter]

FWIW; My Dan Wesson 445 SuperMag shoots my 44 Mag reloads quite well. Which is suprising due to the long jump that they get.

[JW6108]

is`nt the 358156s lower crimp groove supose to take care of the jump when usimg spl. cases in mag cyl???
this is what i`ve been doing , it does`nt eliminate it but sure cuts down on the build up!!!!

GP100man:cbpour:

I have on old Lyman 42nd edition cast bullet book. In it, Ray Thompson (the designer of 358156), said the lower groove was to allow the use of 2400 powder in heavy frame .38 Special guns, but it sounds like the good result you are getting is an additional benefit. I'm using the top groove in .357 cases with H110 (bulky like 2400). They come almost to the cylinder mouth in a S&W 686, but I use a good heavy crimp so have had no problems.

[Flinchrock]

Those reamers are a bit pricey to me. Seems to me Buckshot's Tool Works could turn out a simple chamber reamer (designed to cut crud, not steel) in any caliber for less than a ten spot.

Still lookin' for that five dollar reamer ain'tcha?