After corrosive ammo?

[LIMPINGJ]

Will Ed's Red work for cleanup after using corrisive milsurp. I belive I had read that Harris updated the formula Hatcher listed in his book with ingrediants we can get. So is the new formula still good to use after shooting corrosive?
Jim

[StarMetal]

Depends what the new ingredients are. Hoppes said their #9 will clean it and I personally think it's the ammonia in it that does the trick.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Ed's Red won't work for cleaning after corrosive stuff. It doesn't have water in it to dissolve the potassium chloride.

I use ammonia solution to clean, but that's because ammonia dissolves copper and nickel fouling. Ammonia has nothing to do with getting out potassium chloride. But it's dissolved in water, and water gets out the salt. Lots of folks use plain water, or soapy water.

Ed's Red is fine, but there's no particular advantage to using that mixture. Won't get anything out that a patch with some plain kerosene or light oil wouldn't, and if you want to lube your barrel with ATF, you might as well use it straight.

[StarMetal]

John you're basically right about Ed's Red. But if you add ammonia and acetone it will definately get out alot more then kerosene.

Joe

[txpete]

nothing beats a good cleaning with hot soapy water,rinse dry then do a reg cleaning.
pete

[Ricochet]

Ammonia shouldn't mix too well with it, being a water solution and the Ed's Red being mostly oily stuff, but I haven't tried doing it. The only thing acetone's going to do for bore cleaning is thin the viscosity of the oily stuff so it'll penetrate under the sooty stuff better. There's not much organic stuff left in a bore after shooting smokeless powder that needs an organic solvent to get it out, unless you want to dissolve unburned powder grains instead of pushing them out with a patch. (That'd make lacquer and probably isn't a great idea.) And acetone'll dissolve many plastic stock materials and stock finishes fast!

In my experience, plain household ammonia with a little dishwashing detergent in it (or the old-fashioned sudsy ammonia, if you can find it) gets out the sooty stuff (and corrosive salt) as fast and thoroughly as anything will, the ammonia dissolves the jacket metal fouling at the same time, and when the pretty blue color quits coming out (the black gunk's finished after 2-3 patches), I'm ready to wipe it out and oil it with a little spindle oil.

Ammonia won't help with lead fouling, alas.

[StarMetal]

John it's my understanding that the acetone is in there to dissolve the plastic that may be in the bore of mainly shotguns since the wads that hold the shot are plastic. Also some muzzleloader use plastic sabots and very few rifles. Yes we know acetone will ruin some stock finishes as will alot of bore solvents on the market and they are clearly marked.

There would be another means of getting ammonia in that oil solution. I was thinking of industrial ammonia not the water based stuff.

Sounds like you're not a Ed's Red advocate???

Joe

[Cayoot]

I've been shooting corrosive ammo for years (through bolt actions).

What I learned was based on the old WWI cleaning system (when corrosive ammo was the norm).

I keep a pill bottle in my shooting kit. In it is a 50/50 mix of tap water and common ammonia (from the grocery store).

After shooting, I dampen a patch and push it through the bore twice, then wipe off the bolt face. Then I push a dry patch through the bore.

That's it. The salts have been neutralized and moisture wiped out. Now I put it away and clean the gun as normal when I get home, or a few days later or never (then I put a bit of break free or ed's red *which I prefer* through the tube for semi-storage).

This is the system that I have used for almost 2 decades and I have NEVER had any problem even though I shoot corrosive ammo by the cases every year.

If your gun is gas operated, then you will have to run the ammonia dampened patch through the gas tube...but that's all.

Don't fear corrosive ammo, it was the main-stay for decades.....just use a cheap really cheap mix of 50/50 tap water and ammonia to neutralize the salts like was done in the past.

As to cost, I usually buy a $0.99 bottle of ammonia every 3 or 4 months. :razz:

[StarMetal]

It's wise to to strip the bolt every once in awhile and clean the firing pin and spring. Also wipe the area around the breech , rails, and magazine just to be safe.

Funny how guys will own a muzzle loader and clean it with hot soapy water, but somehow doing the same to a centerfire rifle is taboo for them.

Joe

[Cayoot]

Excellent Point Joe!!!!!

I should have mentioned that.

[waksupi]

Dennis Kroh recommends Windex.

[rocklock]

Dennis Kroh recommends Windex.

I second the recommendation, but make sure it's Windex with ammonia..

[Ricochet]

The ammonia's to remove jacket fouling, not primer salt. You can't "neutralize" salt, only dissolve it in water and wipe it out. For that reason, my wet patches only go one way, from breech to muzzle. No point dragging back salty water into the bore you just cleaned.

Joe, I'm not a fan of Ed's Red, I just don't see the point of "cooking" up a formula like that with no strong rationale for its ingredients, but I see the point of acetone where you've got plastic fouling. I don't think about scatterguns or sabots, not being a shooter of those sorts of things.

I just use cheapo household ammonia and light oil, and they work fine.

[C1PNR]

Dennis Kroh recommends Windex.
I've read that recommendation by others, as well. But I also know that salt is dissolved and carried away by water. So I just went to the Windex FAQ to see what's in Windex. Here it is:

"What ingredients are in Windex® Glass and Multi-Surface Cleaners?
Windex® Glass and Multi-Surface Cleaners contain detergents, solvents, fragrance, Ammonia-D®, and alcohol. They should not be used if ammonia is not recommended for use on surface. (Windex® Multi Task with Vinegar, Windex® Outdoor Window & Surface Cleaner, and Windex® Multi Task Glistening Citrus Orange do not contain ammonia. They are safe to use in these cases.)"

I don't see water mentioned at all, unless it's an unspecified part of the "solvents" group.

I'm thinking a water, and ammonia if you insist, mix is what you want, or maybe a water and Windex mixture.

Personally I think a warm water and household ammonia mix down a warm bore is better, if only because the pores of the metal may be a little more open.

[Buckshot]

....................In 30-06, Den 42 ammo, 8x57 1940's Turk surp, and 8x56R surp I just used hot water with a couple squirts of dish detergent to 'wet it'. A few patches down the barrel. Wipe the boltface with a dampish patch, then 2-3 more patches straight on down and out the barrel and then cleaned normally. Never had a problem with rusting.

I'd read about a test you could do if you wondered if some ammo was corrosive or not. Sounded like fun so I gave it a whirl using a 8x56R emptied case. Drove a 20d nail up through a bit of wood. Buffed the nail with some steel wool. Upended the case over the nail and used a punch to fire the primer.

That afternoon the nail had little orange speckles on it. The next morning the nail was fairly well covered with fuzzy orange rust. By that evening it looked like it was wearing a orangish reddish fur coat.

.................Buckshot

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks everyone for your insight. Got the $0.98 jug of amonia from Wally World and mixed half and half with water. I should be good for several cases of this cheap milsurp.
Jim