Small pistol primer is 357 mag loads

[FISH4BUGS]

THAT SHOULD SAY IN 357 MAG LOADS.
Well, back in 2019 I listened to that little voice in my head and stocked up on components, so I have not suffered from the shortage - until now.
I am down to my last 3000 SP magnum primers and it is making me nervous.
I have plenty of SP primers and want to load some mid range 357 ammo.
H&G # 51 plain base, 5.5 gr WW231, mixed brass.
I use WW231 for all my handgun standard velocity loads and WW296 for magnum loads.
Has anyone ever used SP primers in a 357 case w/ 231?
I would think they would work because 231 is a very fast powder and it should light off....maybe.
I know....load 50 and see what happens....but I would rather not get all set up and load if the hive says it won't work.
I'm not interested in making them competitive target accurate....I just want them to go bang.
Your thoughts?

[Targa]

231 doesn’t need magnum primers. You are good to go with standard small pistol primers.

[brassrat]

You have SPPs? and plenty?

[FISH4BUGS]

You have SPPs? and plenty?

I do. The lesson was learned in the LAST shortage. I spent way too much money on components in 2019 when they were available but now I certainly do not regret my decision. I thought that even if there were never another shortage, I would be all set for years to come.
For once in my life I listened to that little voice in my head that said "...stock up".
I would encourage everyone to do the same when components become available again.....it is improving for powder, but not primers just yet.
I am sure that things will get better. There is a new primer factory opening in Texas and they should be shipping by early next year.
https://www.thomasnet.com/insights/ammunition-manufacturer-plans-100-million-northeast-texas-plant/#:~:text=Expansion%20Industries%20acquired%20a%20f acility,primers%20for%20small%2Darms%20ammunition.

[FISH4BUGS]

231 doesn’t need magnum primers. You are good to go with standard small pistol primers.

Opinion or experience?

[hoodat]

I've never used anything but small pistol standard in my 357 shells. I also use mostly 231/hp38. I haven't loaded much heavy bullet, or slower powder loads, so I won't comment on those. jd

[PJEagle]

Since I ran out of small pistol magnum primers I have been using small pistol primers in all my 357 loads. The only difference I have noticed is the standard deviations are a little larger with the small pistol.

[Froogal]

I have used Winchester small pistol, and Winchester small pistol magnum. Honestly NEVER noticed any difference.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What does your manual specify?

I use SPP for all 357M loads, EXCEPT, I do use MSPP for Hot loads using H110, and more recently I've been using VV N110 for the hot loads. BTW, the Vihtavuori manual suggests Rifle primers for my load, but other manuals suggested MSPP, so I used MSPP.

[243winxb]

I use mag primers because some sp got pierced. Gas cutting on the hammer nose, not good. S&W M28. WSPM

[FISH4BUGS]

Since I ran out of small pistol magnum primers I have been using small pistol primers in all my 357 loads. The only difference I have noticed is the standard deviations are a little larger with the small pistol.

I am happy with "minute-of-beer-can" accuracy. My guns will shoot far better than I am capable of doing.
SP with 231 it is!

[FISH4BUGS]

I use mag primers because some sp got pierced. Gas cutting on the hammer nose, not good. S&W M28. WSPM

That is an interesting point. I also shoot a 1960 made 6" 28 (no dash).
I'll keep an eye out for that.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use SP under HP38/Win 231 for most of my 357 shooting. Only use SP magnum under 'heavy' ball powder loads - HS7(old not typo) and 296. S&W 686 and Rossi 92

[MOA]

I use 231 with small pistol primers all the time without problems.

[rkrcpa]

I only use magnum primers in loads using powder that call for magnum primers. And since I mostly use Unique and 2400 I don't use many magnum primers.

[FISH4BUGS]

Oh boy do I feel better now.
I will keep my eyes out for SP Magnum primers and not feel pressured to buy them when I see them regardless of price.
I pop in and out of a number of web sites every few hours or so and I snagged an 8 lb 296 recently.
Now to get more SPM primers!

[Char-Gar]

Historic Factoid: There were 357 Mag revolvers and ammo long before there were magnum small pistol primers. People reloaded the 357 Mag round long before there were magnum small pistol primers.

[mdi]

Primers are designated by the powder they will ignite, not what is printed on the side of the barrel. Slower, harder to ignite powders should have magnum primers for efficient ignition. Faster powders, like W321, work quite well with standard primers but as always, do another load workup with new/different components...

[NSB]

First off, to answer the original question: I’ve shot countless thousands of 357mag reloads using 231 powder and never had any problems. If you check your reloading manuals, they aren’t even called for. Here’s another news flash: lately, with very little to do, I’ve been testing various primers and powders in my .357mag revolver and my .357max rifle and have found no difference in velocity and/or accuracy switching between the two types of primers. I’ve even thrown some small rifle primers in the mix and still can’t find a difference. If you follow several sites on this subject it’s pretty much coming to light that there may not really be a difference between them, or if there is it’s slight. I still use mag primers for 296 and 110. I might play with that sometime soon as well.

[Mk42gunner]

I use mag primers because some sp got pierced. Gas cutting on the hammer nose, not good. S&W M28. WSPM

The firing pin is replaceable on most S&W revolvers. You will need the rivet also, unless you are extremely lucky.

If I had one that was gas cut bad enough to pierce primers, I would put a new one on for sure. Not sure now, but they weren't that costly a few years ago.

Robert

[Mitch]

The only 357 loads i us emag primers for is 296/h110.If you find and old winchester loading book you use to get from the dealer selling the powder it only calls for mag primers with 296.Not saying i dont believe that the fireing pin gets some wear or gas cutting.but i have not seen this on any of my S&W revolvers.I got some of mine new in the 80s 686s and 586s

[FISH4BUGS]

If you follow several sites on this subject it’s pretty much coming to light that there may not really be a difference between them, or if there is it’s slight. I still use mag primers for 296 and 110. I might play with that sometime soon as well.
What sites discuss this subject?
Thanks for the real world experience.
If you start experimenting with SR instead of SPM, let us know.
You make me think about that one.
That would be helpful. Lots of SR in stock with far fewer SPM.

[Mitch]

FISHBUGS.I do remeber reading some threads here about swapping primers for different things.It seems to come up when there is a paninc going on.I am sure there has been more than one thread here as well about mg primer VS standard.

Now i got away from shooting and loading for a while.I decided to get all my loading gear out around my Birthday at the end of Sepetemer 2014.There was a gun show that weekend.I went and got caught up on the current prices. Did a little shopping local and never got back to a gun show till Jauary 2015 right after the Sandy Hook shooting.There was nothing to be had anywhere for a long time it took several years before I could buy any reloading supplies.Lessons learned.The old days were gone for good.No more running out o powder and primers and heading the the LGS and buying more any time i was out.Stock up when you can and buy as much as you can as funds allow.Save your money when there is paininc buying for when things calm down.Then buy buy buy.I look at it this way.I am investing money in my GUN 401k.My goal is 2 pronged here first never worrie about the next panic and have enough stash of everything while i am working to not have to buy much after retirement.

[charlie b]

I never loaded .357 with mag primers. But, never used 296 either. Mostly Unique, Blue Dot, 2400 and AA 7.

[Kosh75287]

It might also be worth remembering that some of the first .357 Magnum rounds were developed using small rifle primers.

[Targa]

Opinion or experience?

Experience. I will say that I only buy magnum primers when it is an option and use them in everything but I have used more standard small pistol primers with Win 231 than I can count without an issue of any kind.

[Rapier]

231 does not care if it is in a 38 Spl case or 357 Mag case, same load, same bullet weight, just use Small Pistol primers. Shot thousands in competition. With Rugers Colts, Smiths, Smolts and a Clarke 1911 38 Spl gun.

If you are piercing primers with a M-28, suggest you might want to get the firing pin diameter checked with the firing pin hole in the frame. Sounds like you may have an oversized firing pin hole or even possibly a week hammer spring. did you turn the hammer spring tensioning screw out?
The 28 should shoot 38 Spls, just about forever, without any incident.

[winelover]

SP primers with most powders for 357 Mags. SPM for 296/H-110.............optional for 2400. Most older manuals called for magnum primers when using 2400 (357 & 44 Mag). I have and still wouldn't hesitate to use magnum primers with 2400, if push came to shove. Reduce load, accordingly, if your on the fence.

Winelover

[jonp]

I've used SPP with my 357 Mag. I use them with the faster powders like 231, bullseye and Promo for light to med loads with no problems. The SPM I save for slower powders like W296/H110 when heading for top velocity for hunting.

Like Winelover I've used both with 2400 with no seeming difference but I'd still go with the previous statement on this.

[243winxb]

As of 2017 - Reloading data lists these primers to be used with the 357 magnum. CCI 550 Mag., WSPM, FED 200, REM 5 1/2

Reloading data lists these primers to be used with the 38 special and 38special +P. CCI 500,Rem 1 1/2, Fed 100, WSP,

Speer list the CCI 550Mag primer for Alliant 2400. This info is available at all primer manufacture websites.

[Larry Gibson]

It is probable there won't be any pressure difference between a MSPP and a SPP in 38 SPL Or 357 magnum cases with such powders as 231, Bullseye, Red Dot, etc. The reason being that load of 231 will produce only so much pressure regardless of the primer used to ignite it. There were a couple previous threads with actual test data regarding the subject.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?417830-Comparison-of-various-SP-and-SR-primers-in-the-357-Magnum

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?423061-9mm-with-SP-and-SR-primers-psi-tests

[mdi]

The "small standard vs magnum" has been discussed on every reloading forum I visit to the tune of (seemingly) 10,000 times. Answers vary from "yes do it, to "yes but do another load workup or reduce loads by ??%", amounts vary. to "No,1 you'll put your eye out". Over the years I have tried probably every primer swap easily done (I even reamed/deepened some 45 ACP primer pockets and used large rifle magnum primers). But as "Reloading 101", I did another load work up, from min. loads and up. I doubt if I'm the only one to do this, but I've never heard of any KABOOMS from any primer switch and the most common problem was pierced primers (pistol primers in rifle applications). Normally if someone needs to ask the answer is "no, get more experience and do some "primer study"...

[MOA]

Might there be a difference with j words or less.
I go look now but I'm running the master caster.

[derek45]

Opinion or experience?

I can answer that.

357 mag / win231 / 158gr works very well with standard small pistol primers.

My yRuger GP100 4.2" shot hits on steel at 90 yards. 6.5gr Win231, SNS 158gr RNFP coated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umk68uyVxtA

[Hanzy4200]

Use them all the time. No issues. There should be a sticky on "The great primer debate". Primer choice is far less important than many believe.

[mdi]

Experience here too. For quite a while I only reloaded 38/357 and 44 Special/Magnum. I used a lot of W231 and only used standard primers, mostly CCI. In my 357 loads, even when I used upper loads with 158gr LSWC I got very consistent performance/velocities using standard primers (book velocities are a bit over 1,100 fps.)...

[FISH4BUGS]

Well, OK then. I just cast , sized and lubed some 2000 H&G # 51's.
Because I don't want to make a huge mistake (ask me how I know), I will load 50 (I am going to up the charge to 6.0 gr.) and see how they do.
Then comes a marathon loading session or three to take care of the next 2 years of 357's!

[NSB]

I’ve spent the last two weeks loading up a few hundred rounds of several powders and bullets trying to find a load my new 357max barrel likes. Haven’t found anything yet to meet my expectations (this is my fourth .357max gun, been loading it for about fifteen years). Anyway, for primers I’ve tried CCI400, CCI450, Rem 6 1/2, Fed GM205MAR, WSR, WSPM, Fed205M, Tula SPM. I’ve used 5744, 296, 4227, Rel7, 1680, H110 (same as 296), 2400, N110, and N120. I’ve had ZERO ignition problems, no signs of pressure, and no discernible difference in point of impact. Unfortunately, this new barrel isn’t shooting anything very well. My other three guns/barrels shot most of what I load well or exceptionally well with the same loads. I’m not saying to just go ahead and do this, I don’t load to max loads to start and I work my way up. Info on the 357max is sketchy at best and the only published loads are for handgun. Rifle loads are suspect and you should check your source before using any load data you’re given. Shooting my .357mags over the years hasn’t shown much difference either. I’m starting to believe that primer data itself is pretty unreliable and inconsistent. I’m not sure it’s the science I once thought it was. I do wish some reputable, reliable source would take all the primer brands and do a study on them to find out scientifically/statstically how much difference if any there really is.

[mdi]

Double check that 6.0 gr. load of W231/HP-38. The Hodgdon manual I have here shows 5.0 as max for 1109 fps...

[Dieselhorses]

eph-25 takes care of that for me :) But yes, even my 500 magnum (which requires LRP's) I use LPP's hopped up.

I make my own. (https://mewe.com/join/primerreloading)

[derek45]

Double check that 6.0 gr. load of W231/HP-38. The Hodgdon manual I have here shows 5.0 as max for 1109 fps...

I've been shooting that load for many many years, without trouble.

Lead bullet load data is often very mild loads to prevent leading, but a properly sized and coated cast bullet can be driven faster without leading.

. . . even to H110 and 2400 levels.

You can shoot 6.5gr w231 all day in a GP100 or 686, as I have got decades.

https://i.imgur.com/KF9NCJy.jpg

[mdi]

I thought the OP was talking about a 158 gr LSWC from an H&G 51 mold...

[derek45]

I thought the OP was talking about a 158 gr LSWC from an H&G 51 mold...

he is

and 6.5gr 231 will work great with that bullet, provided it's properly sized, etc.

[mdi]

Well, I trust my reloading manuals, I can read and understand them much easier than an anonymous screen name. My Hodgdon manual definitely states that for a cast 158gr. LSWC the max charge of W231/HP-38 is 5.0 grains.

[derek45]

Well, I trust my reloading manuals, I can read and understand them much easier than an anonymous screen name. My Hodgdon manual definitely states that for a cast 158gr. LSWC the max charge of W231/HP-38 is 5.0 grains.


well, I can't argue with that

https://i.imgur.com/mnFvE1D.gif