Quality of equipment

[ILostMyGoat]

Hey guys I just got into casting, my first mold is a Lee 309-200. I’m casting for my 30-30. My question is do Lyman or ideal or any other “hi end” mold really perform that much better? What is it that makes them so much better? Thanks for the input!


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[Winger Ed.]

The biggest difference I've found is that Iron molds live longer and can take more abuse.
Nothing wrong with Lee molds, but you do need to be more careful with them as far as getting them too hot,
or banging them around.

[wilecoyote]

I have only been using Lee molds for about twenty years. quite user friendly, and I've never ruined one. they still work today better than I can shoot their bullets and do not rust. I'm probably not very picky, but no complains about these molds, while I would be more inclined to spend more in quality dies.

[ILostMyGoat]

I have only been using Lee molds for about twenty years. quite user friendly, and I've never ruined one. they still work today better than I can shoot their bullets and do not rust. I'm probably not very picky, but no complains about these molds, while I would be more inclined to spend more in quality dies.

What dies do you prefer?


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[wilecoyote]

it ever happened that I buy the Lee, easily available here, then inevitably I upgrade to Forster or Redding, and the Lee remain bolted on the Lee Turret or Pro1000 plates as a back-up.
Redding my 1st commercial choice, even more in a single stage press, if I can.

[Land Owner]

Remember, our reloading ancestors sat around a campfire, melted and poured lead (not alloy) into round ball-, then later WC-, SWC-, and Spitzer-molds, killed buffalo, bear, moose, caribou, elk, deer, hogs, and one-another with these "antiquated" by modern standard boolits, and today we "judge" ourselves by the touching of holes at 100 yards down range from equipment and materials that exceed BY FAR anything and everything our ancestors had available to them.

Your modern 30-30 is very forgiving in what it digests, and the killing power of that cartridge is not often argued, though trajectory, et al, is routinely compared to other calibers. Your "attention to detail" making boolits from the cheapest of molds, in reloading cartridges, in shooting, in forming personal confidence in yourself, your equipment, and your methods can be compared to making boolits from the most expensive molds, with very little noticeable difference.

Casting, reloading and shooting for accuracy is "an equation in many variables". Mastering these variables is the path we are all on Grasshopper...

[country gent]

The three basic materials for moulds are aluminum brass and steel.
aluminum: lighter in weight. Is the softest of the materials. Heats up fast and looses heat fast. Usually breaks in fast and casts well.
Brass: Heaviest of the materials. medium hardness, Takes longer to heat up but holds heat well and longer. May take a couple sessions to break in and cast the best. But they are normally very consistent when up and running.
Steel: hardest of the materials, heats and holds heat well, most durable, corrosion is an issue more so in some climates, Casts well and trouble free.

Like most things it is not the equipment as much as learning to use it and How.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hey guys I just got into casting, my first mold is a Lee 309-200. I’m casting for my 30-30. My question is do Lyman or ideal or any other “hi end” mold really perform that much better? What is it that makes them so much better? Thanks for the input!
As to shooting performance:
A Rifle boolit needs to match the needs of your Rifle. Lee molds seem to have more variance/wider tolerance than other brands...If you get one that works in your Rifle, cherish it. Most other brands, you pay for machining preciseness, but you need to know what your rifle wants, to order the correct mold.

[Bazoo]

Lee moulds don’t have the finished details of other moulds. Often the sprue cutter will gouge the top of the mould and needs to be dressed for sharp edges and a bulge at the cutter hole. Lee moulds don’t have a set screw to lock the sprue pivot screw in place. Those are things that take a bit of time and raise cost. The lee handles on their two cavity moulds use cheap stamped metal and generic bolt. Nothing wrong with that, but that saves cost. Lyman uses its own thread pattern best I recall. Or maybe it’s an archaic thread no longer in common use. Lyman and lee will both need a b it if tuning right out of the box, lee will need more, sometimes a lot more.

My experience with RCBS is they will work right out of the box. Accurate moulds I’ve had the same experience, more so.

Lee moulds I consider 95%. They will have burrs most of the time, and need sprue plate tuning, and generally just need going over. I remove the burrs in the cavities with a bronze toothbrush. Once tuned up, which takes 20 minutes, you generally have a decent casting but inexpensive mould. I’ve been hit and miss with the diameters being what they should.

[1hole]

There is neither cause nor justification for damaging bullet molds so the material - iron, brass or aluminum - shouldn't matter.

Learning to make quality cast boolits and developing good loads with them takes time, experience and brains so holding start-up costs down until we get our feet on the ground is a good thing to do. "Experience", as such, can be deceptive. It doesn't much matter how many times we've done something, what matters very much is how much we've learned!

Lee's 6 six cavity molds produce a heap of very good bullets at a rapid rate and volume has a quality of its own. Obtaining a variety of Lee molds will be much more reasonable than buying a collection of "quality" molds and the bullets will be no more likely to shoot well than any others.

Boolit casting has a learning curve, no one does very well at first so spending a lot for molds you haven't yet learned to use seems foolish.

Cast boolits are delicate. The very best cast boolits won't help until you learn how to reload and shoot them for best results. Spending a few years casting and learning how to best reload your cast boolits is much more effective in the long run than buying costly molds up front.

Learning to shoot well matters too.

[Harter66]

I started with Lee moulds and I don't regret it in the least . My first not Lee mould was a half price used 45-200 RCBS 2 c it was followed by a couple of more bargains made by Lyman . I found the 7mm RCBS mould I needed and got as far as shipping and decided to go look at an NOE which was available and a comparable bullet . It was an aluminum 5 cav and shipped was only $10 more than the RCBS 2 cav .

There is a point of diminishing returns on tool cost vs what you get for the money . Having or had moulds from Cramer , H&G , Ideal , Lyman , Lachmiller , RCBS , Rapine , LBT , Lee , Ohaus , Mtn Molds , NOE , M-P , and Herters ........ I think I'm missing one or more ...... I can say absolutely there is a difference in what you get for the money . Is it worth it ? As others have pointed out yes absolutely , when it is .
I've shot probably a dozen different bullets in 38/357 and none of them shot any better than the Lee 358-158 RF . The LBT and RCBS 40-175/403-175 showed me nothing over over the 401-175 TC Lee .
I do have a 452-255 RF that I've side lined for the NOE version of the 454424 SWC , but that would be a push if I were stuck with a single vs the 6c . I'm not , the NOE is a 5c . So far every 45 rifle bullet I've tried has been poor for me , others are happy with Lee .

In the end of you're willing to trade the time that the Leementing takes AND the bullet works well for you there's no reason not to use them . At this point after nearly 20 yr of mucking about with all of this if I wanted a generic volume bullet for 25 foot paper a Lee would do if I were going to hunt it I'd spend the money on an NOE if the Lee didn't fill my expectations .
For rifles I've had some some hits with Lee and some train wrecks . There only seems to be in those that I load hunting accuracy or disaster . Where it worked I shot a bunch 300+ yd on targets of opportunity , that's not all on the mould though . I've had better easier success with NOE in rifles and equal success with others also .

The difference is Lee is a $25 single or double and a $50 6c in limited designs . The others start at $60-80 and go up . If you call NOE or M-P (I don't want that bill please) you're talking to the guy running the machines .
No slight intended but inspector #12 isn't going to come to the phone at RCBS Lyman or Lee to get your problem addressed .

Inspite of all of the above yes the "better" moulds are worth it , but sometimes it doesn't matter .

[Harter66]

I started with Lee moulds and I don't regret it in the least . My first not Lee mould was a half price used 45-200 RCBS 2 c it was followed by a couple of more bargains made by Lyman . I found the 7mm RCBS mould I needed and got as far as shipping and decided to go look at an NOE which was available and a comparable bullet . It was an aluminum 5 cav and shipped was only $10 more than the RCBS 2 cav .

There is a point of diminishing returns on tool cost vs what you get for the money . Having or had moulds from Cramer , H&G , Ideal , Lyman , Lachmiller , RCBS , Rapine , LBT , Lee , Ohaus , Mtn Molds , NOE , M-P , and Herters ........ I think I'm missing one or more ...... I can say absolutely there is a difference in what you get for the money . Is it worth it ? As others have pointed out yes absolutely , when it is .
I've shot probably a dozen different bullets in 38/357 and none of them shot any better than the Lee 358-158 RF . The LBT and RCBS 40-175/403-175 showed me nothing over over the 401-175 TC Lee .
I do have a 452-255 RF that I've side lined for the NOE version of the 454424 SWC , but that would be a push if I were stuck with a single vs the 6c . I'm not , the NOE is a 5c . So far every 45 rifle bullet I've tried has been poor for me , others are happy with Lee .

In the end of you're willing to trade the time that the Leementing takes AND the bullet works well for you there's no reason not to use them . At this point after nearly 20 yr of mucking about with all of this if I wanted a generic volume bullet for 25 foot paper a Lee would do if I were going to hunt it I'd spend the money on an NOE if the Lee didn't fill my expectations .
For rifles I've had some some hits with Lee and some train wrecks . There only seems to be in those that I load hunting accuracy or disaster . Where it worked I shot a bunch 300+ yd on targets of opportunity , that's not all on the mould though . I've had better easier success with NOE in rifles and equal success with others also .

The difference is Lee is a $25 single or double and a $50 6c in limited designs . The others start at $60-80 and go up . If you call NOE or M-P (I don't want that bill please) you're talking to the guy running the machines .
No slight intended but inspector #12 isn't going to come to the phone at RCBS Lyman or Lee to get your problem addressed .

Inspite of all of the above yes the "better" moulds are worth it , but sometimes it doesn't matter .

[Soundguy]

I prefer lee for the price. And for paper punching..hard to beat lee micro groove bullets.. Way too easy to shake some alox on cure and go many times.

[elmacgyver0]

I love my Lee molds. They do what I want.

[1hole]

When I get good accuracy from one bullet design but not with a different design I attribute the differences to my load and/or my gun's preference, certainly not the brand of the molds.

[bimus]

In 40 years there has been a lot of 45 ACP pistols owned by sons and daughters grand kids nieces and nephews and friends and only one Lee 228 grain 452 mold .

[El Bibliotecario]

I have only been using Lee molds for about twenty years. quite user friendly, and I've never ruined one. they still work today better than I can shoot their bullets and do not rust. I'm probably not very picky, but no complains about these molds, while I would be more inclined to spend more in quality dies.

That expresses my opinion and experience as well.

The idea of better performance from high end equipment is only valid up to a point. With bullet casting I believe the critical factor is skill and experience.

[Rich/WIS]

Have had molds from all the common makers, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, and NOE. Right now have Lee 6C for handguns and NOE for rifles. Same with pots, have had Lee 10#, Lyman and SAECO 10#, Lyman and Lee 20#. Still have the Lee 20#, and BTW all dripped to some extent. For dies prefer Hornady and RCBS but also have Lyman dies in some calibers. All work well and produce good ammo. Can't comment on Lee dies as I've never used them. Knowing how to use your equipment and attention to detail are far more important than the maker of your equipment, there is an old saying "its not the arrow, its the Indian".

[gwpercle]

I learned on Lyman , bought many Lee's because they are / were affordable and I'm a Tightwad who loves cheap . Lyman are steel tough and Lee are cheap ... made cheap to sell cheap but they can cast boolits . All my moulds were 1 and 2 cavity ... I cast with a dipper .
Joined this site and heard about "Custom" moulds like NOE ... cost more than Lee but people kept talking about them . Wanted a 124 gr. 9mm TC mould with a gas check and Lee or Lyman didn't make one ...So I decided to spend some bucks and see what all the hoopla was about ...
NOE 358-124-TC - GC - 4 cavity aluminum $92.00 was ordered ...
The hoopla was real ... I have bought only NOE moulds since that day ... it's like cars ...
the Lee is a 67 Ford Pinto ... the NOE is a any year Corvette .
The driving / casting experience is just so much nicer.
NOE makes moulds that have been long discontinued ... so I end up buying moulds I can't find but have always wanted to own . NOE prices aren't any higher than Lyman 2 cavity $92.99 at Midway USA . I can vouch for NOE aluminum moulds ... SWEET ! I don't own any brass moulds because of the weight ...to heavy for my old arms .
Gary

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Look on the swapping and selling forum and you can find good deals on top quality molds. I really like my cast iron RCBS molds, so easy to make nice boolits with. I have mostly aluminium molds and they work fine too. I have half a dozen Lee molds and get good boolits from them as well.

[GONRA]

Rcbs

[gwpercle]

I was thinking about this thread ... it has been a while since I started casting .
Let me add ... Buy the best you can afford at this time .
Don't be afraid to buy a new Lee 2 cavity mould to use for testing . Buying used moulds off Ebay is tricky ... I bought a Lee C309-170-F for 30-30 and a C312-185-1R for 303 British years ago ...they work just fine and I still cast with them . Have several Lee 9mm moulds and 38/357 's too ... that drop great boolits .
So don't be afraid to start with a Lee 2 cavity mould ... they are so economical that you won't loose any money . Read the stickies on how to prep your mould (hand finish ) and get with the casting game . I have several NOE and they are nice but more Lee moulds ...that are like work trucks .
Gary

[Bazoo]

The lee moulds that I have, that cast good, cast really good. But I have had several that didn’t cast large enough. Some will have a small section that is undersized. Not an issue if you powder coat. But I don’t PC. Maybe that’s why everyone is loving their lee moulds, they overlook that .002 small section and it gets “fixed” when coated.

[ILostMyGoat]

So it sounds like y’all have a collection of different molds, no brand loyalty?


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[Winger Ed.]

Like different brands of gasoline-- I have preferences, but not some huge amount of loyalty.

The closest I'd come is a strong preference for Lyman molds,
just because they have their reloading books to go with them.

If I'm going to cast a small amount (1-2,000) of one boolit over a long time, I'll get a Lee.
For mass production, I'll get a Iron mold.

[Land Owner]

So it sounds like y’all have a collection of different molds, no brand loyalty?

Starting out, buy the inexpensive molds. Learn how to cast.
Inexpensive means every brand that suits your wallet.
Eventually, you will volunteer to buy mid-grade molds.
The Cast Learning Curve is not steep. Old molds still pour well.
You may, in time, wish to try one of the "Cadillac" molds,
to "see what others are talking about". Are they "all that"?
I can say, in an HP mold, MiHec brass molds are VERY good.
Brand Loyalty to Lee, Lyman, RCBS, and MiHec - so far.

[Soundguy]

Lee. Lyman / ideal, MP..etc. Anything I can't to pour lead in. Have a few un named antiques too.

[Bazoo]

I’m not brand loyal. Even with the problems I’ve had with lee and Lyman in the past, I still look there. I have lee, Lyman and RCBS currently. I’ve had accurate but sold it and am looking at a couple others. Never tried a saeco yet. I have little to no desire for hollow points though so I likely won’t ever get an MP.

[gwpercle]

Like Winger Ed ... I have preferences , but no one brand/maker makes everything you want or need ...
or your preferred brand may be out of stock .
Lyman makes No 41 magnum / 41 cal moulds any longer , I called Lyman and was told ...all are discontinued , when they did that I bought a couple off ebay ...then the prices got stupid high ... Lee made one I wanted and NOE makes three ...ordered them all . Having a mould is more important than brand loyalty ! I have a model 58 S&W 41 magnum that I wanted a good selection on moulds , who made them was not that important .
Don't get all hung up on brand ... even Lee moulds will cast ... the higher priced ones are just "nicer" .
Get whatever you can get and cast ... experience is a great teacher .
Gary

[Targa]

Hey guys I just got into casting, my first mold is a Lee 309-200. I’m casting for my 30-30. My question is do Lyman or ideal or any other “hi end” mold really perform that much better? What is it that makes them so much better? Thanks for the input!

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I have molds from NOE, Arsenal, MP and H&G. All of them are higher quality as far as workmanship is concerned but none of them actually cast a better bullet. The reasons I picked up the higher end molds that I do have is due to 8 cavity offerings from MP, hollow point molds from MP as well as NOE and different designs that Lee does not offer.

[robg]

my wrists prefer aluminium molds ,lee molds work well,so do my rcbs molds but they get heavy quick.

[super6]

Gotta go with Gonra, RCBS If i can't find A Hensly and Gibbs.

[jsizemore]

Buying quality casting equipment is like buying quality firearms. The better either is points to operator error when it ain't working right. When you have the skills to use either, then you can make mediocre equipment or firearms work like the good stuff. There is no substitute for hands on experience and not settling for mediocre results.

[Wayne Smith]

BTW, iron molds are just that, Meenhite or something like that - and high lead content ductile iron.

[justindad]

A new caster shouldn’t put themselves in a position where they have to learn what is wrong with the mold - first learn what is wrong with your technique & process.
*
I bought an NOE 2-cavity brass and an NOE 5-cavity aluminum to start. I figured I’d start with something of quality so that I would learn about casting and not mold repair. I learned about both (still am). My recommendation for a first mold: 1) a bullet profile you actually want to shoot, 2) avoid sharp corners and square lube grooves, 3) 2-cavity maximum.
*
It would be great if you could buy a used mold from someone of good repute, who can tell you what they have “rains bullets”. Who can be trusted?

[Soundguy]

To avoid all square corners you may be stuck buying ( regular production models mind you.. not custom stuff ).. older ideal/lyman and lee micro groove.

To be honest.. a 20$ lee 2 cavity aluminum mold is a great learning tool.. and then once you learn.. just keep using it. The bulk of my molds are lee 2 hole.. I make some great shooting and looking ammo.

[rbuck351]

I have molds from Lyman, lee, rcbs, NOE and even an old winchester. The only molds that don't do what I expected were the Lee bore riders. I have three or four and all have bore rider noses that are too small, from .002 to .005 to small. All Lee pistol molds have worked very well.

[Static line]

First, pick the profile of the bullet that you want then choose the mold that offers it and go from there. Iron or Aluminum makes no difference. It's all good.Only you can decide how much you want to spend and how many cavities you want per mold. Most of the time for me, two cavities is good enough and much lighter to work with.

[Soundguy]

Bore riders might be ok if you like really slow rifle bullets.. I tend to prefer gas check and faster rifle bullets. If too small..maybe too soft and shrinking? Some molds like a certain alloy.. Ie.. A mold for Lyman #2 that is fed softer range lead around #10bhn is going to drop smaller bullets...

[Land Owner]

First, pick the profile of the bullet that you want then choose the mold that offers it and go from there. Iron or Aluminum makes no difference. It's all good.Only you can decide how much you want to spend and how many cavities you want per mold. Most of the time for me, two cavities is good enough and much lighter to work with.

Very good point(s), particularly in first choosing a boolit PROFILE. The 30-30 is a hunting round. I enjoy a LOT of trigger time shooting feral hogs. I like "Keith-style" boolit profiles and purchased a pair of Lyman molds, a steel, 2-cavity, 311-041 FV that drops my alloy at 173 grains and a steel, single cavity, 309-170. I am awaiting my kids availability to test accuracy in their micro-groove Marlin 30-30's.

[greenwart]

Lee molds take some care and tuning for the most part. The exception is their 6 cavity molds. they seem to be made better than the 2 cavity molds. I cast for 9mm,10mm and 358 and the 6 cavities can make a pile of bullet quickly. I have a couple of 309-170F molds which have proved to be the best fit for my 30-30's vs the larger and smaller weights.

[6622729]

Hey guys I just got into casting, my first mold is a Lee 309-200. I’m casting for my 30-30. My question is do Lyman or ideal or any other “hi end” mold really perform that much better? What is it that makes them so much better? Thanks for the input!


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Lee molds are great. The higher end molds like NOE or MP are very nice as well. I have all 3 but none stand out from the other in terms of what they produce. Lee molds are much more available than MP or NOE but the latter 2 offer more variety. I would suggest starting with a couple Lee molds while you learn to cast and care for your equipment. If you can clean and lube a Lee mold without causing wrinkled bullets or galling the mating surface between the sprue plate and the top of the mold, you will be ready to get in line and wait for the MP Or NOE or similar custom mold of your choice.

[lesharris]

You can get Lee molds cheaper to see what works for you and always upgrade to more expensive molds at a later date.