Why Doesn't Lee Make These?

[ACC]

I was wondering why Lee hasn't come across the idea of making a gas check maker. I believe they could sell a ton of these!

ACC

[Electrod47]

I'll tell you what Lee could make a ton of: Come back with the .410 3-station loader and the small box loader for the same. Sell like hot cakes.

[Rickf1985]

I was wondering why Lee hasn't come across the idea of making a gas check maker. I believe they could sell a ton of these!

ACC

Probably because there are several large volume gas check makers out there. I have a very nice gas check maker but it is just more trouble than it is worth when I can buy them by the thousand cheap. Lee has probably done the math and figured out that the cost of making the tool would not be profitable enough to warrant the job. Plus, those that want one tend to make there own anymore. That is why all the guys that were making and selling them stopped doing it.

[BC17A]

The problem I see is Lee would have to make two parts of a punch fit with a tight tolerance. Their variance from die to die tells me they aren't capable of making a quality gas check punch.

[ACC]

I'll tell you what Lee could make a ton of: Come back with the .410 3-station loader and the small box loader for the same. Sell like hot cakes.

I wouldn't know about that as I don't own a shot gun.

ACC

[imashooter2]

I’m guessing it is their obsession with turning a profit.

Reloaders are a small subset of shooters. Bullet casters are a small subset of reloaders. Check makers are a small subset of casters. And that subset is adequately served already. There’s just no market.

[hporter]

There’s just no market.

I don't disagree with your premise of reloaders being a subset of shooters and casters being a subset of reloader's point. Very true.

But you could make the same argument that Lee couldn't turn a profit making bullet molds by the same logic. Have you seen the prices on eBay in the last year for old single and double cavity molds? And what folks were asking for Lee molds when Lee couldn't keep up with demand? I know a lot of it is panic buying, but there is a strong demand for everything reloading related.

I own a Pat Marlin Checkmaker that is very useful to me in 30 cal. I sure wish I would have ordered more sizes of check makers back in the day when they were easier to obtain. I for one would buy a Lee Precision set in .22, .257, .357, .44, and .45 if they were available.

Yes a thousand commercial checks go a long way in some of those calibers. But as we have seen in the roller coaster of availability of reloading components over the past 20-30 years - sometimes the stuff just isn't available. And rolling your own is a nice fall back.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey guys,

I'm sure LEE has looked into it, but with no control as to what the end user chooses to use for the gas
check material (mainly the thickness) decided to avoid all the possible problems with a new product.

AntiqueSledMan.

[GhostHawk]

^ has my vote. Too many hassles with too many people using the wrong material.

[725]

+1 for the Lee .410 loader. I'd buy one. I'd probably buy some for gifts, as well.

[imashooter2]

I don't disagree with your premise of reloaders being a subset of shooters and casters being a subset of reloader's point. Very true.

But you could make the same argument that Lee couldn't turn a profit making bullet molds by the same logic. Have you seen the prices on eBay in the last year for old single and double cavity molds? And what folks were asking for Lee molds when Lee couldn't keep up with demand? I know a lot of it is panic buying, but there is a strong demand for everything reloading related.

I own a Pat Marlin Checkmaker that is very useful to me in 30 cal. I sure wish I would have ordered more sizes of check makers back in the day when they were easier to obtain. I for one would buy a Lee Precision set in .22, .257, .357, .44, and .45 if they were available.

Yes a thousand commercial checks go a long way in some of those calibers. But as we have seen in the roller coaster of availability of reloading components over the past 20-30 years - sometimes the stuff just isn't available. And rolling your own is a nice fall back.

The market for a check maker is probably less than 10% of the market for molds and already well served.

[Land Owner]

Manufacturer's make "thumbs up" value judgements to increase profit. I'm guessing Check Makers is a "thumbs down" value judgement at Lee.

[farmbif]

The problem I see is Lee would have to make two parts of a punch fit with a tight tolerance. Their variance from die to die tells me they aren't capable of making a quality gas check punch.

if lee is not using precision automated cnc machines these days, I dont know what to say.
from what I know with these type machines its all about the programming and keeping sharp cutting tools in them
like any computer its garbage in garbage out if the end product isn't up to spec.
im pretty sure the old days of using Swiss screw machines is long gone

[hporter]

The market for a check maker is probably less than 10% of the market for molds and already well served.

And Lee already has all the tooling to make 7/8" precision dies and bullet sizers. I can't imagine it would be very difficult for them to make one.

"Well served" is a relative thing. What is the delivery time after an order for a custom checkmaker die? How many folks have a lathe at home?

And as far as the other comments in this thread about using the correct materials to punch them, "RTFM" might apply. If you are too ignorant to understand the material requirements or read the manual, perhaps you shouldn't be trying to make your own checks.

I never underestimate Lee's innovation. They still aren't making custom dies post pandemic (I inquired last week), but they used to make them at a fair price. Manufacturing a few custom order checkmakers shouldn't be much different than making a custom die set.

It's one thing to say it isn't plausible because they aren't mass marketable at a profit level to sustain the product line. Quite another to preclude something being done on a custom order basis.

[John Guedry]

As long as demand is exceeding supply, if I were Lee, I would stick with what I do best. When the world becomes a " more normal" place again then try exploring new products.

[DonHowe]

I wouldn't know about that as I don't own a shot gun.

ACC
Kinda reminds me of a friend who absolutely refuses to own or use a computer. He told me a while back that Midway said they wouldn't take orders by phone anymore. He predicted they will lose a lot of business from guys like him who don't have internet....

I'm pretty sure that won't have much impact on their sales.

[1hole]

if lee is not using precision automated cnc machines these days, I dont know what to say.
from what I know with these type machines its all about the programming and keeping sharp cutting tools in them
like any computer its garbage in garbage out if the end product isn't up to spec.

Lee Dies are made to the same specifications as any other brands. When any maker sells a rare die that really is outside the tolerances they will happily replace it.

I sometimes have to think some people don't know the measures and tolerances of dies are set by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Makers Institute (SAAMI), not the maker. SAAMI sets both minimum and maximum dimensions but NOT a specific dimension and anything within the tolerance range is fully within specification so the common idea of some brands running "tighter" tolerances is nonsense.

Ammo is made inside the dies; Lee's die insides are as "precise" as any others. Sure, we can buy costly dies with much more velvety exteriors than Lee's but, on average, the ammo will be no better.

I've made chamber casts of a lot of sizers and checked the runout of a lot of seaters. I found that there is as much average difference between dies of the same maker as there is between makers except for Redding and Forster's unique and excellent so called "competition" bullet seaters (and even they vary a bit).

The average output of other dies are tied for second place and why not? After all, personal opinions aside, they're all made to the same specifications range!

[Soundguy]

I'll tell you what Lee could make a ton of: Come back with the .410 3-station loader and the small box loader for the same. Sell like hot cakes.

Tell me about it. I was 'heart broken' when i found out my load all couldn't convert to .410

I ended up buying a little pocket kit from thexring basically a couple tools and an aluminum loading block. slow.. but works for low volume .410

[BC17A]

if lee is not using precision automated cnc machines these days, I dont know what to say.
from what I know with these type machines its all about the programming and keeping sharp cutting tools in them
like any computer its garbage in garbage out if the end product isn't up to spec.
im pretty sure the old days of using Swiss screw machines is long gone


Yes, and their customers are seeing a lot of garbage. My guess is they are not sharpening and/or replacing their tooling like a quality manufacturer does. Below's a pic of some Lee universal expander die plugs. The two on the left are straight from Lee, and the one on the right is one I cleaned up and polished. Notice the brass left on the plugs from the rough finish? I'll just let the picture do the talking. This is only one example, and I've got several more dies that needed re-finishing to make usable. Now, imagine what Lee gas check punches would look like if they tried to produce them.

https://i.postimg.cc/sx149Bjq/expander.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[6622729]

Hey guys,

I'm sure LEE has looked into it, but with no control as to what the end user chooses to use for the gas
check material (mainly the thickness) decided to avoid all the possible problems with a new product.

AntiqueSledMan.

You hit it on the head. I had the 30 caliber Pat Marlin punch. I had to have it “adjusted” when I was using .014 copper. Truth be told, they replaced it. It worked great but I was always a little wear or an accidental nick away from having a useless die. Lee is working with much higher volumes. I’d hate to see them bogged down supporting gas check makers. I’m sure making a precision fit gas check maker doesn’t make sense to them. It’s a boutique item at best. I’d rather Lee stay in their lane. I love their products and almost exclusively use Lee for everything except a couple molds, one die set and a balance scale.