Cleaning cases

[smkummer]

So I shot a sample batch of 45 colt and 44-40 blackpowder cartridges for vintage blackpowder colt single actions. I immediately put them in a container of water. 45 minutes later when I got home, they soaked in a solution of dish soap/water. After rinsing, they soaked in a solution of vinegar/ dish soap. They are clean but have a copper colored tinge to them. Maybe that’s as good as they can get OR now would tumbling them with corn Cobb media return them to shine brass? Thanks for your experience.

[414gates]

There's clean and there's clean.

To shine them up, use the corncob media, but the media must be clean. If it's old and discolored, you'll just dirty the brass again.

Thin strips of damp cloth in the tumbler absorbs all the dust, and over time cleans the media. Wet wipes do the same job.

[jdfoxinc]

Used dryer sheets. The copper coloring is from the vinegar leaching a small amount of zinc from the surface of the brass.

[Castaway]

Skip a step or two. After shooting, punch the spent primers and put them in a capped container of water with a couple drops of Dawn. Shake vigorously a few minutes, then rinse and dry. Sometimes I use my ultra sonic cleaner but there’s no real need. If I want it pretty, I’ll tumble but don’t find it shoots any better afterwards. The vinegar isn’t necessary if you give the initial bath in water and Dawn

[Don McDowell]

Case will discolor if you soak them after firing. Really no need to immediately put them in water and leave them. Matter of fact they won't be harmed if you wait a day or 3 before washing , and drying.
Drop a dollop of Brasso into your corncob media and run the cases for a couple of hours they should come out looking close to new. Biggest problem using corncob and other dry media's it tends to linger in some cases , especially the flash holes, so it's best to store them with the mouths down for a while before loading again.

[nuclearcricket]

I wet tumble my cases with cermic media after I punch the primers out. I use the medial sold by Shiloh Rifle. It is 1/8 by 1/4 with angled ends. It does a good job of getting the crud out of the corners. Many also use SS pins to acomplish the same thing. I run them wet with a bit of Lemi shine and probably a table spoon of Simple Green. About 2 hours or so and them come out nice and clean, I then dump them wet into a vibrator with cracked walnut shells for a while to dry and put a final polish on the cases. I have come to the conclusion that putting too much soap in the mix isn't a good thing.
I have not shot any BP rounds for a while but my mix should work for that, I do know with smokeless it has done a super job on the brass I have recently acquired. Also for an inexpensive source of cracked walnut shells, I picked up a box full from Harbor Freight. 25 pounds for about $30 locally seemed to be a good deal. Volume wise, thats about a 5 gallon bucket full. I got the coarse stuff and it seems to do a pretty nice job so far. Seems a bit big to fit into the flash hole.
Sam

[Lead pot]

We all have our way cleaning brass.
When I head to the Quigley Match I'm away from home 8 weeks a lot of time shooting the Q and the Mt 1000 as well as the Big hill shoot and I take 1500 to 2000 rounds for a couple rifles of different calibers and most generally I get them all shot empty.
The empty cases I put in a 40# cat litter bucket with a lid that is tight sealing and I usually have two buckets for the empty brass like you see in the photo with the rifle on it.
I don't presoak the fired cases, never seen a need doing this and in the bucket with a lid it keeps the cases dry and I never seen a green case doing this. When I get home I deprime the brass and soak the cases in a in hot Water er for an hour or so and reach in and lift them and let them drop back in to rinse the fouling out, I don't shake them in water this just peans the case mouth. I pour the water off and it's black :D refill since again and then they get put in a wet tumbler that has 3mm ball ceramic and I use a pad of Cascade and a little lemishine and I tumbled them in a Frankford Arsenal and a Reble Supreme for an hour.
When I take them from the tumbler I rinse them in hot water twice to get the soap off and drop them on a towel to wipe them dry and just let them dry on the floor out of the way someplace till they dry.
They come out clean inside and out looking like new.
I used to use a mix of ceramic and set pins to get the primer pockets clean but I stopped doing this and just use these little balls. They work a lot better than the long angle cut ceramics do.
Here is another thing I do, and it's not for economy reasons.
I have a screen that has small mesh that will hold set pins and these little 3mm balls from falling through.
When the cases get done tumbling I empty the drums in the screen on a 5 gallon bucket and save the black water. The water will clear up in a day or so and when that bucket gets 3/4 full I don't add any more muddy water from the cleaning. In a day all that mud will settle down and I will have a clear, mostly blue colored liquid that has several loads of the cascade and lemishine diluted and when I clean the next load I just dip a coffee can in the bucket slowly and fill the tumbler.
I recycle that sometimes for a couple seasons with just pouring off the clear liquid in another bucket and cleaning the mud out of the bottom of the bucket.
This just works better than getting the commercial cleaning concentrate.

299513299514299515299516299517

[smkummer]

Thanks everyone for their time, great advise. Going to clean my media, then put them to polish. No more vinegar solution but in all fairness, I left them in for maybe 2 days.

[ragnar]

We all have our way cleaning brass.
When I head to the Quigley Match I'm away from home 8 weeks a lot of time shooting the Q and the Mt 1000 as well as the Big hill shoot and I take 1500 to 2000 rounds for a couple rifles of different calibers and most generally I get them all shot empty.
The empty cases I put in a 40# cat litter bucket with a lid that is tight sealing and I usually have two buckets for the empty brass like you see in the photo with the rifle on it.
I don't presoak the fired cases, never seen a need doing this and in the bucket with a lid it keeps the cases dry and I never seen a green case doing this. When I get home I deprime the brass and soak the cases in a in hot Water er for an hour or so and reach in and lift them and let them drop back in to rinse the fouling out, I don't shake them in water this just peans the case mouth. I pour the water off and it's black :D refill since again and then they get put in a wet tumbler that has 3mm ball ceramic and I use a pad of Cascade and a little lemishine and I tumbled them in a Frankford Arsenal and a Reble Supreme for an hour.
When I take them from the tumbler I rinse them in hot water twice to get the soap off and drop them on a towel to wipe them dry and just let them dry on the floor out of the way someplace till they dry.
They come out clean inside and out looking like new.
I used to use a mix of ceramic and set pins to get the primer pockets clean but I stopped doing this and just use these little balls. They work a lot better than the long angle cut ceramics do.
Here is another thing I do, and it's not for economy reasons.
I have a screen that has small mesh that will hold set pins and these little 3mm balls from falling through.
When the cases get done tumbling I empty the drums in the screen on a 5 gallon bucket and save the black water. The water will clear up in a day or so and when that bucket gets 3/4 full I don't add any more muddy water from the cleaning. In a day all that mud will settle down and I will have a clear, mostly blue colored liquid that has several loads of the cascade and lemishine diluted and when I clean the next load I just dip a coffee can in the bucket slowly and fill the tumbler.
I recycle that sometimes for a couple seasons with just pouring off the clear liquid in another bucket and cleaning the mud out of the bottom of the bucket.
This just works better than getting the commercial cleaning concentrate.

299513299514299515299516299517

Kurt, where do you get the 3mm ceramic balls? The inside of my cases never come out bright and shiny no matter what I’ve tried.
Mike

[indian joe]

Kurt, where do you get the 3mm ceramic balls? The inside of my cases never come out bright and shiny no matter what I’ve tried.
Mike

Mike
Citric acid and a ultrasonic cleaner! the innards will be squeaky clean (no crud) not shiny just spotless clean. I run each batch about fifteen minutes after depriming and rinsing in plain water with a drop of dish soap. this is so easy its ridiculous.

[Don McDowell]

ragnar google up ceramic polishing media. There's be quite a few links for it. There was some of the ceramic balls on Amazon a while back.

[Soundguy]

Used dryer sheets. The copper coloring is from the vinegar leaching a small amount of zinc from the surface of the brass.

Agreed... IMHO.. I'd skip the vinegar myself.. though I know some do use lemishine soap for a similar effect..

[Dhall_37]

I like to use a chemical method when cleaning my brass. I deprime, place the cases in water or diluted simple green and add over the counter hydrogen peroxide. It'll fizz and react with the back powder neutralizing it and having some float to the surface.

[Lead pot]

Kurt, where do you get the 3mm ceramic balls? The inside of my cases never come out bright and shiny no matter what I’ve tried.
Mike


Sorry for the slow reply Mike, been out of town.

Mike I got it from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Porcelain-Polishing-Tumbling-Non-Abrasive/dp/B08QH6JQPB/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_rp_c_sccl_2_10/139-5054347-2842922?pd_rd_w=XXdwr&pf_rd_p=c40cc3f9-a100-4914-8c06-0d36763c1da7&pf_rd_r=6AWA43FB92BW0Z3DS7RF&pd_rd_r=5fc0213e-bec1-4e92-9a73-a8485d433238&pd_rd_wg=QkcCX&pd_rd_i=B08QH6JQPB&th=1 . I ordered two packs of the 3mm because I use a Frankford Arsenal tumbler that has a larger capacity than the Rebel Supreme to the tumblers tumbler.
The 3mm will clean a lot, not all, of the primer pockets and fall freely from the pocket. I also have the 4mm but it's a little to large and sticks snug in the pocket but it will clear from it with a slight tap.
There is also 2mm out there that might be better for the primer pockets but this is getting close to the flash hole diameter with it's .078" diameter makes it pretty close to the flash hole diameter, but the 3mm does a very good job with the cleaning mix I mentioned.

Kurt

[ragnar]

Sorry for the slow reply Mike, been out of town.

Mike I got it from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Porcelain-Polishing-Tumbling-Non-Abrasive/dp/B08QH6JQPB/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_rp_c_sccl_2_10/139-5054347-2842922?pd_rd_w=XXdwr&pf_rd_p=c40cc3f9-a100-4914-8c06-0d36763c1da7&pf_rd_r=6AWA43FB92BW0Z3DS7RF&pd_rd_r=5fc0213e-bec1-4e92-9a73-a8485d433238&pd_rd_wg=QkcCX&pd_rd_i=B08QH6JQPB&th=1 . I ordered two packs of the 3mm because I use a Frankford Arsenal tumbler that has a larger capacity than the Rebel Supreme to the tumblers tumbler.
The 3mm will clean a lot, not all, of the primer pockets and fall freely from the pocket. I also have the 4mm but it's a little to large and sticks snug in the pocket but it will clear from it with a slight tap.
There is also 2mm out there that might be better for the primer pockets but this is getting close to the flash hole diameter with it's .078" diameter makes it pretty close to the flash hole diameter, but the 3mm does a very good job with the cleaning mix I mentioned.

Kurt

Thanks Kurt!

[FrankJD]

Mike
Citric acid and a ultrasonic cleaner! the innards will be squeaky clean (no crud) not shiny just spotless clean. I run each batch about fifteen minutes after depriming and rinsing in plain water with a drop of dish soap. this is so easy its ridiculous.

Yup, me too, ultra sonic cleaner, Hornady with their solution. Never tried citric acid, might have too!

[greenjoytj]

Does the 3mm ceramic balls get permanently stained black after cleaning cases that were fired with black powder?

I clean my cases with the stainless steel pins and Cascade dishwasher machine powdered detergent. It works fine.
Lately I have reduced my cleaning time by not striving to get the stains off the inside of the cases just remove all loose fouling.
I found a little carbon staining inside the neck reduces the amount of brass that gets bonded to the neck expanding plug.

[Rapidrob]

I've been shooting BP firearms for 55 years now. As soon as the match or shooting session is done I use my LEE hand press and de-prime the cases ( Lee Universal De-capping Die fits anything ) and drop them into a soapy water container and shake them up.
As soon as I get home the dirty water is flushed out and the cases are put into a rock tumbler with a few drops of Dawn dish washing detergent with stainless steel tumbling media.
In one hour they come out looking like new. The primer pockets are shiny. Being this clean any cracks at the mouth of the cases are clearly visible as well as any case stretching / bulging.
A few years ago a friend gave me several hundred 6.5 Swede cases,you know the surface discolored ones than came in as loaded ammo. The tumbler really cleaned them up after two hours .
300568

[FrankJD]

I drop just fired brass into a water jug that's had a shot of Dawn. I like how that keeps the bp residue soft. I'm more interested in the interior cleanliness of the case than its exterior.

[Rapidrob]

The cases using the ST tumbling media cleans the insides as well. Cases i cleaned years ago are still clean with no signs of corrosion.

[FrankJD]

Been there with vibratory and dry media, wet rotary with pins and ceramics. Nothing works as well, as fast, or as quiet for me as a 30 min ultra-sonic bath. I do use the vibratory for drying off after a u/s wash, 10 min and done. Brass shines inside and out.

[Rapidrob]

I have a three gallon heated ultra sound cleaner but found it did not remove the debris in the primer pockets as well as the SS MEDIA.

[Lead pot]

Does the 3mm ceramic balls get permanently stained black after cleaning cases that were fired with black powder?

I clean my cases with the stainless steel pins and Cascade dishwasher machine powdered detergent. It works fine.
Lately I have reduced my cleaning time by not striving to get the stains off the inside of the cases just remove all loose fouling.
I found a little carbon staining inside the neck reduces the amount of brass that gets bonded to the neck expanding plug.

No I haven't seen any discoloration with any of the ceramic media. Slant cut tube or round. I been using it for many years.
There is a difference between the 3mm and 4mm ball. The 3mm when I pul it out of the tumbler gives the brass a polished look and the 4mm gives the brass a brushed brass look.
I cut down the tumbling time to 1/2 hr using the 3mm but the 4mm takes a little more time.
I used the angle cut 3/8 long and added SST pins to get the primer pockets clean and this worked fine but the 3mm ball for me is the way to go because spending less time in the tumbler and the cases come out bright inside and out.
I might get some 2mm to see if it works in the primer pockets but it's very close to the flash hole in diameter so some might stick in the hole as the media wears down from use.

Using a set of screens like these with a small mesh of 50 or 100 mesh that fits on top of a 5 gallon bucket https://prospectinggear.com/collections/classifiers saves you from loosing it. I use two, a 3/8" on top of a 50 or 100 mesh this makes separating the brass from the media. The media will fall through the 3/8 and collect on the fine screen. It makes it better separating the cases.
The muddy water I leave in the bucket and when that bucket gets 3/4 full of the muddy cleaning solution, I use a tab of Cascade dishwasher and a little lemishine. This he muddy wader from cleaning will settle in two days and it will be a clear blue liquid and I just dip a coffee can in the clear and put it in the tumbler to clean again. Once or twice a year I will pour off the clear settled and wash out the mud in the bottom of the bucket. There might be an inch of mud in the bottom of the bucket, but I shoot a lot of rounds.

[FrankJD]

I had case mouth peening with s/s pins, I don't like that kinda brass cleaning. If I deprime a just fired case before going into the water/soap jug, then the U/S cleans the pocket quite well. But I don't deprime at the range, no time for that, so I can live with having to manually lightly primer pocket clean.

[Lead pot]

Frank,

I think a lot of the peening comes from what I see some do shaking the brass in a jug with water.
I use a Tumblers tumbler and a Frankford Arsenal. The Arsenal is a larger drum and it's hard and spins faster than the tumblers and I don't see a peening issue using ceramics, but I use more that might be cushning the brass keeping the brass from peening.

[FrankJD]

Yep, I heard about that happening with some folks, LP. I'm pretty set with my U/S brass cleaning process/routine, it all works well and purty easy. The cleaning followup is always an annealing, then I'm ready to load up again.

[indian joe]

I have a three gallon heated ultra sound cleaner but found it did not remove the debris in the primer pockets as well as the SS MEDIA.

huh !....... spotless clean primer pockets was about the first thing I saw with the ultrasonic cleaner
- mine is only a small one (I shoot often but not a lot so small suits)

[FrankJD]

The brass cleaner used with a U/S matters, at least for me - haven't found any commercial or DIY cleaner better than the Hornady. Deprimed and presoaked brass comes out shining inside and out, primer pockets too.

[Soundguy]

Agreed.. if I have the time.. the US cleaner has always made the best looking brass for me.. it's just very time consuming.

[FrankJD]

Agreed.. if I have the time.. the US cleaner has always made the best looking brass for me.. it's just very time consuming.

I don't find the U/S cleaning time consuming, in fact it's less time than a rotary or vibratory, and it's quieter, too.

Back from the range it starts with washing the just fired brass that was dropped in the water/soap jug - about 10 minutes to wash off and deprime 50-75 brass, 30 minutes in the U/S, 2 minutes to wash off, 2 minutes to towel off, 10 minutes in an open top vibratory to dry, done and ready to anneal.

[Froogal]

So I shot a sample batch of 45 colt and 44-40 blackpowder cartridges for vintage blackpowder colt single actions. I immediately put them in a container of water. 45 minutes later when I got home, they soaked in a solution of dish soap/water. After rinsing, they soaked in a solution of vinegar/ dish soap. They are clean but have a copper colored tinge to them. Maybe that’s as good as they can get OR now would tumbling them with corn Cobb media return them to shine brass? Thanks for your experience.

Hot water and Dawn detergent. Soak for no more than about 30 minutes. Rinse with water, allow to dry and then tumble in walnut shell media. Good enough.

[country gent]

I have done this for a long time After each string I deprime and drop in a jug of water with dawn and lemi shine. When I get home and everything is put away. the brass jug is poured out and rinsed several times with hot tap water. As I put them in the drying rack each gets a swirl with a nylon brush. Usually the first 2 rinses are dirty the 3rd is a light gray. the brush loosens any deposits left. When dry its in the vibratory and corn cobs treated with iosso brass cleaner for 1/2 hour to 45 mins.

[FrankJD]

Lotta good ways to skin the brass cats. :drinks:

[indian joe]

The brass cleaner used with a U/S matters, at least for me - haven't found any commercial or DIY cleaner better than the Hornady. Deprimed and presoaked brass comes out shining inside and out, primer pockets too.

I tried the hornady cleaner - great stuff - I reckon citric acid + a drop of dish soap is at least equal on the innards but I get a dull clean on the outside not shiny with it.
still trying to figure the time consuming part of US but then I only do small batches of brass
never had a tumbler cleaner and the U S sure beats the heck out of doin it by hand !

[FrankJD]

I tried the hornady cleaner - great stuff - I reckon citric acid + a drop of dish soap is at least equal on the innards but I get a dull clean on the outside not shiny with it.
still trying to figure the time consuming part of US but then I only do small batches of brass
never had a tumbler cleaner and the U S sure beats the heck out of doin it by hand !

Same for me, so I pony up the big dollars for the Hornady cleaner.

[Etienne Brule]

Kurt, where do you get the 3mm ceramic balls? The inside of my cases never come out bright and shiny no matter what I’ve tried.
Mike

Hi

I use this kind of ceramic: I find that they are better than the round ones, to clean primer pockets...

https://www.amazon.ca/Tonmp-Pounds-Tumbling-Ceramic-Filler/dp/B08PFCB94Z/ref=asc_df_B08PFCB94Z/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459609691918&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13415112984677912297&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000253&hvtargid=pla-1247704099917&th=1

[Soundguy]

I don't find the U/S cleaning time consuming, in fact it's less time than a rotary or vibratory, and it's quieter, too.

Back from the range it starts with washing the just fired brass that was dropped in the water/soap jug - about 10 minutes to wash off and deprime 50-75 brass, 30 minutes in the U/S, 2 minutes to wash off, 2 minutes to towel off, 10 minutes in an open top vibratory to dry, done and ready to anneal.
Depending on what I'm shooting if it's rifle I like brand-new looking brass with no stains so I will generally ultrasonic clean it for an hour then dry it so that's where my time way comes from that's why I prefer just vibratory tumbler ring it for a little bit to get soot off

[greenjoytj]

So I shot blackpowder cartridges.
They soaked in a solution of dish soap/water. After rinsing, they soaked in a solution of vinegar/ dish soap. They are clean but have a copper colored tinge to them.

Either your case soaked too long in the vinegar acid or you used too much acid (too concentrated)

The acid leaches out the zinc from the surface of the brass alloy leaving copper as the prominent metal on the case surface which shows as pinkish copper colour. Too much citric acid will do the same.

I know some BP shooters are super anal about getting their fired case submerged in water/detergent ASAP.
That’s not necessary, my 45 Colt cases are thoroughly slimed inside and out from bullet lube vapour.
The dry cases stink less of sulphur, once the water hits them that really brings out the sulphur stink.
I want my case dry because I de-cap and clean the primer pockets to remove a lot of the worst fouling so the case won’t be tumbling in more fouling (concentrate) than necessary.
I try to reduce the time my cases spend tumbling to reduce case mouth peening.
I can feel and see the peening with a hand magnifying glass (or my cell phone camera) my non aggressive LEE deburring tool works great to remove the peening high spots.
I use an RCBS tumbler, SS pins, one litre of water, one heaped tbs of Cascade dishwasher machine detergent. Tumble for 1 hour then check the state of cleanliness, rinse.
If I want more shine I’ll tumble another ½ hour with 15 ml of Hornady One Shot ultra sonic cleaning solution.
I used to power brush the inside but the small pistol cases it wasn’t worth the added time & effort.

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t tumble after washing. After a quick rinse in citric acid I put them to dry and then reload. I’ve heard that citric acid gives them a protective etching against corrosion, as well as shining them up a bit.

[oldracer]

While it has been a few years since I shot B/P cartridge rifles (muzzle loaders only now) I refered to the notes I took when I first started aand was told by the late Doug Knoell how he did his case prep and since he was VERY highly reguarded as a B/P shooter and champion I thought "why mess with success"!
Here is his procedure:
- Fire form the new cases, looking for any blow back
- Use your blow tube, at least 3 good breaths then punch out the primer
- Immediately drop the case in a container of pure water with a dash of Dawn shake the container frequently
- Immediately at home dump the container into a collander and flush well
- Put cases in a tumbler with pure water, very small ceramic balls and a dash of Dawn
- Testing will determine how long you have to run the tumbler, I used 4 hours minimum. I use a double Harbor Freight one.
- Dump the whole thing in a collander and flush with pure water then blow dry while using rubber gloves, don't touch the cases
- Make sure primer pocket is clean, measure case length and adjust as necessary, expand case mouth very slightly so bullet is a slip fit.
- Seat the new primers all exactly the same
- Load the powder using a drop tube, insert the milk carton wad, insert the news paper wad then compress the powder with your compression die, NEVER compress the powder with the bullet!!
- Insert the bullet, Doug said he never did a crimp so I never did either. I usually had to use a "bullet seater" since the slightly belled case mouth will rub on the chamber sides. This prevents blow back.

That is from the notes I took when Doug was working on my original Rolling Block and explaining how to shoot this new, to me, stuff.
John