Casted.. Hated it

[brassrat]

I go to my casting spot for the 2nd time this week and it was another pain. I had a pot full of unused mix with a unknown ingot mixed in. Friday this totally froze up my new Lyman 358429 and I broke one of the ground Lee handle holes, all on the first cast. I figured the mould was too cold. Today I had my new/old Lyman handles and high hopes.My pot didnt act normally and temps were rising. Now I had what looked like, frosty, dull boollets. They filled out OK but I was getting a mushy mess on the sprue plate that seemed to not harden and blocked the sprueplate. The boolets and waste was extremely grey and grainy looking. I made a, new, normal, batch and got nothing but minor wrinkling everywhere. I plan on really cleaning and try the lighter fluid. Tks for sharing my rant

[jessdigs]

You might benefit from a PID. It keeps the temp within a few degrees of where you set it, regardless of how full or empty the pot is.

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[Flailguy]

It sounds like you are casting with straight zink to me. If not then I'm not sure.

[brassrat]

I am wondering about zink. I have had a handful of small ingots for years, found IDK. They seem hard and I was thinking/hoping they were a type metal They did fill out well though. Gonna try some acid. Weirdest mix ever. Maybe post a pic tommorrow

[44Blam]

Sounds like you were too hot and then too cold.
It's interesting I find that some molds like to cast hot some like to be cooler.

[charlie b]

Do you have a known, good alloy to start with? If not you are fighting an uphill battle. What kind of pot are you using? What heat source?

I would get some known alloy, even if you have to buy it. Figure out how hot your pot is getting. You are seeing the effects of too cold a pot as well as mold not being right temp. This is why many of us use a hot plate to pre-heat the mold and a thermometer to see what the pot temp is at.

If the mold is new then it definitely needs to be cleaned and will still not cast perfect bullets right away.

[brassrat]

I cast with this mold a couple weeks ago with no troubles. I may have gotten contaminates on it from all the messing around to repair my Lee handles and ditched them anyways. Had a Lee mould that gave me the same wrinkles until recleaned. The brake cleaner needed a detergent scrub before and after. The funny, first pot, was leaving like a grey sand in the holes that I have never seen.

[Dusty Bannister]

If you are talking about the hole where the sprue is torn out of the base of the bullet, that is because the sprue was cut too soon and before the alloy hardened. The sandy appearance is where the alloy was still a little "mushy". Slow down a bit more before cutting the sprue. A thermometer might help you control the temp on your alloy and improve your product.

[MrWolf]

Sounds like the unknown ingot that got mixed in your pot may be the problem if the temperature isn't the issue. Try it with a known mix and see what happens. Reduce the variables that can cause issues. Good luck.

[Soundguy]

frosted is too hot.. mushy is too cold.. sounds like the mold was cold...

[Rickf1985]

Too many variables to even hazard guessing at the problem. You need to start with a known good alloy. Break down and buy some from Rotometals, this will get you started with a known good, tested alloy. Clean out your pot before starting over with this new lead. Do NOT add anything to it!!!!! GET A THERMOMETER!!!! If you do not know what the lead temp is you will have absolutely no idea what you are casting at. And warm up your molds to at least 350-400 degrees before casting. This will all get you in the right ballpark to make good boolits. If this all works or at least gets you real close then you now know that you can do it correctly with the equipment you have. You just need good alloy after that.

[brassrat]

I still don't know if my little ingot was the problem. I think the last session, I popped in at least the, same, Saeco stamped ingot, of which, I accumulated probably 25 lbs. Everything went well. I have a USA Lyman, thermometer and have always used it. This last batch, I really slowed down to a non-counting count of 5 or so and waited until the sprue went dull. Seeing this, damp grainy mush, seemed like Twilight Zone. I do know that my thermometer barely moves when I try to check molds. Gonna bring a handheld next time. The heat confuses me, in that, this trip, the pot temp kept rising. I usually keep it in one place, all day. The mold was kept on the heat, one way or another plus casting. I hold it near my face and do feel significant heat. The, totally fresh batch, lost the frosty and gritty look but went shiny and wrinkled. This didnt make sense. The day was cooler and pretty breezy unlike any other casting day.

[Soundguy]

see what temp the alloy melts at.. zinc melts way hotter than lead.. and tin.. etc.. If you are having to get into the 800's to get a liquid pot.. you may have zinc in there.. another possibility is copper babbit.. it's super hard.. melts hotter.. and if not hot enough to mix.. will stay thick like zinc. There is also the possibility of lo temp undesireable metals in the mix.. like bismuth.... someone may have melted down reclaimed or 'found' bags of shot.. and might have been bismuth shot. I have seen ranges that screen, wash and grade and re-bag shot..

[Soundguy]

Bismuth is grainy...

[Dusty Bannister]

"The, totally fresh batch, lost the frosty and gritty look but went shiny and wrinkled. This didnt make sense. The day was cooler and pretty breezy unlike any other casting day."

Casting outside or in a breeze can mask many issues and lead you out into the weeds. Shiny and wrinkled often suggests a cool mold. That would be consistent with cooler ambient air temps chilling the mold during the casting session.

[Geezer in NH]

I do know that my thermometer barely moves when I try to check molds. .

Huh I am confused. The thermometer is for the alloy not the mold.

[bangerjim]

Try preheating your molds on an electric hotplate to FULL casting temp, not just warm!

I do that and get perfect drops from the 1st one with any ally I use.

Also, pre-heat your feed ingots to about 10°F under liquidous of the alloy. Saves tons of time when refreshing your pot as there is very little cycle time.

If you think there is Zn, test with muriatic acid for a reaction.

[super6]

You lost the mojo gods, I cast from a stainless steel pot and a ladle pour, Never ever used a thermometer, Your melt will tell you what you need to know. As far as the mold...Hot till it frosts then back off a little. And yes I have sessions where nothing go's right just go at it another day!

[mdi]

N/a

[mdi]

Lot's of hints and "coulda beens" so I'll add one more. The clues for me are the "unknown ingot" and "grainy". Sounds like zinc to me. I'd remove all the alloy from the pot and refill with a known good alloy and try again...

[fredj338]

I still don't know if my little ingot was the problem. I think the last session, I popped in at least the, same, Saeco stamped ingot, of which, I accumulated probably 25 lbs. Everything went well. I have a USA Lyman, thermometer and have always used it. This last batch, I really slowed down to a non-counting count of 5 or so and waited until the sprue went dull. Seeing this, damp grainy mush, seemed like Twilight Zone. I do know that my thermometer barely moves when I try to check molds. Gonna bring a handheld next time. The heat confuses me, in that, this trip, the pot temp kept rising. I usually keep it in one place, all day. The mold was kept on the heat, one way or another plus casting. I hold it near my face and do feel significant heat. The, totally fresh batch, lost the frosty and gritty look but went shiny and wrinkled. This didnt make sense. The day was cooler and pretty breezy unlike any other casting day.
If your spru is setting in 5sec, things are too cold imo. I look at the spru, it tells you when its solid. Pot temps will always rise as you cast, unless you have a pid, the amount of alloy is always reducing. IF casting outside, its going to affect pot & mold temp. Maybe a wind screen. Yes a hot plate is the way to go for heating the mold & any ingots added to the pot. Just be sure it isnt too hot for ingots, huge mess.

[brassrat]

Hope to check for zinc but can't easily, gotta take a small ride for my stash. I went through all my moulds and hopefully everything is clean and did some shopping to get some sprueplates from moving which also annoyed me bigly. I have stopped scrubbing cavities with my soft brushes that I use at my bench and to clean up dust on my pistols. I wonder if that caused wrinkles, this trip. The cylinder releases and various corners look great however299537

[Rickf1985]

Lot's of hints and "coulda beens" so I'll add one more. The clues for me are the "unknown ingot" and "grainy". Sounds like zinc to me. I'd remove all the alloy from the pot and refill with a known good alloy and try again...

I said that and was totally ignored. "You can lead a horse to water"...............................:popcorn:

[murf205]

Too many variables to even hazard guessing at the problem. You need to start with a known good alloy. Break down and buy some from Rotometals, this will get you started with a known good, tested alloy. Clean out your pot before starting over with this new lead. Do NOT add anything to it!!!!! GET A THERMOMETER!!!! If you do not know what the lead temp is you will have absolutely no idea what you are casting at. And warm up your molds to at least 350-400 degrees before casting. This will all get you in the right ballpark to make good boolits. If this all works or at least gets you real close then you now know that you can do it correctly with the equipment you have. You just need good alloy after that.

Beat me to it Rick.This is good advice.

[gwpercle]

Gary's Tip-O-the-Day.
No mystery metal ... when casting know for sure what is tin & lead and don't "hope" a ingot isn't Zinc .
Avoid zinc at all costs ... have ingots tested and know what they are .

From what I've been reading ... you dropped a Zinc ingot in your pot and everything went to heck in a handbasket after that ... Know what your metal is ... or don't use it .

Gary

[brassrat]

What do the boolets look like. I havent had any experience with zinc, just avoided it, until maybe now and I knew better but chanced it. Like I said, I removed the questionable stuff and put in a new mix consisting of a few ingots of pure lead that I made from, brand new, scrapped rolls of roofing lead and pure pewter ingots that I bought and melted. I also said that I did use a Lyman thermometer, from when I started casting around ten yrs ago. Not a long lifetime like some but not my first casting. Thanks for all the advice thou

[Y-T71]

Get yourself some hydrochloric acid ("The Works" toilet bowl cleaner is a popular choice) and put a couple of drops on a clean spot on an ingot or boolet.

If it starts bubbling/"foaming" you got yourself some zinc in the mix .

[brassrat]

I have a jar of HCL and will test, but its not here. I think I will have a few tests done on my various materials and look for that bismuth. Sorry for not responding to everyone but was very busy with my moulds. 299545 I think a couple had been contaminated and the weather was not what I was used to. Still maybe some zinc, will see.

[mdi]

Why complicate the issue? Quickest, easiest test is use a known good alloy. Same results, check molds, methods etc. Good bullets, toss contaminated alloy...

[Y-T71]

Why complicate the issue? Quickest, easiest test is use a known good alloy. Same results, check molds, methods etc. Good bullets, toss contaminated alloy...

Maybe he wants to know.

I would want to know even if it never changed anything.

"Why" is this happening isn't an unreasonable question.

[Markopolo]

Wrinkles are nearly always temp issues. Best to dump the pot carefully when it is liquid, then start a fresh alloy. I really think you have 2 issues running.. unknown alloy and temp issues.. equalize these and you will have shootable bullets.

Marko

[brassrat]

Well still no satisfaction on a couple trys at casting. 0 saved boolets with wrinkles large and small.I did make a nifty acid dropper bottle up thou. I tested a questionable boolet and there was no fizzing at all. The cool winds won't go away. I only started with problems after really keeping an eye on pot temps. Usually I would be into the 850* ++ areas with great results. The more I know, the more dangerous I get. I suspect it will get better with hotter weather.

[poppy42]

It sounds like you are casting with straight zink to me. If not then I'm not sure.

Seriously doubt it was pure zinc. Considering zinc melts it almost 800° compared to lead that melts at about 630! Hardness would certainly be considerably harder than any normal Cast Boolet if it was pure zinc. Sounds to me like the temperature problem. First batch, to hot. That would explain the grainy sprews (cut them while the lead was to hot and not fully harden. Second batch was too cold, that would explain the wrinkles

[GregLaROCHE]

Sounds like you could have a some zinc in your mix. Best to start over with a 100% known alloy. Heat and cast until the boolits are frosted and well filled out and then turn the pot down. A thermometer or PID makes things easier to sort out, but not 100% necessary.

[brassrat]

I can't get a break from the wind, as if that is a casting, deal breaker, so I will post something from 2014 when I stumbled into casting. Somebody here let me know that it looked like a H+G that I had. They cleaned up well and the Ideal mould had new wood made from some hickory. They are both .38 WCs. The HG is a, pitted boolet, maker but a great mould. The Ideal has a, still unidentified, green surface. Its another great mould.300505

[brassrat]

I just noticed another pic in my file. The lube is from a members or members, hometown. I dissolved at least one of them in One Step and use a little in a TL. with a couple of other mixes. I love the coating.300506


Sorry, in my folder, the print is large and clear but blurry, in thread. It says ' Las Cruces NM

[lightman]

I plan on really cleaning and try the lighter fluid. Tks for sharing my rant

I wouldn't use Lighter Fluid to clean with. It will leave a residue behind. Its great for flushing out a trigger but not on a bullet mold. Its what Jewell recommends for their triggers.

I store my molds with oil on them and have to degrease them before use. I use a tooth brush and either Brake Cleaner or Electrical Contact Cleaner as a solvent.

Wishing you Luck with this.

[brassrat]

Well I broke out my setup and, sort of, got my mojo back. No wrinkling. It looks like 800 * is my new temp, same as what I'm used to. I used an electronic thermometer on the molds and am sure they were too cold, giving problems. I was trying to keep my tin dissolved so dropped to 700* and read how everyone puts something on the hotplate coils and I started but it dropped my mold temps. As to the lighterfluid that was a burning lighterfluid idea and I did it on all of them after extensive work and other cleaning. Thanks to Lightman and all responders for all the help

[brassrat]

My pot was bone dry and took forever to heat up, again. Checking mould temps and pot temps is mandatory, at least for now. Mojo is back bigly and actually did a little something for a change. Had 2x 4c going for a bit and temps were high, still, on all the moulds. Handles were hot, with my little wool gloves No frosting thou. Gotta get everything into one mix, next, instead of guessing every little pot.

[AlHunt]

My pot was bone dry and took forever to heat up, again.

My Lyman 4-20 had a terminal inside corrode on me. It didn't stop the pot but it took a long time to heat up and wouldn't hold temp. Easily fixed.

Might be worth a glance.

[brassrat]

The pot just doesnt melt too well with my ingots, when empty. After getting a liquid going, it melts fast. Filling up when it hits halfway is only a few minutes. I am watching for 800* and then casting. I had backslided and was starting again too soon with the ingots or my, giant, spru returns.