Original RB No 1 Sporting Rifle - Doesn't Shoot

[Dave T]

My RB No1 Sporting rifle does not group, it patterns at 50 yards and the pattern is an irregular 1-2 feet. I half suspected it might do that since I got it as a Christmas present for myself. Looking down the breech end of the barrel I saw shiny, sharp rifling as far as my aging eyes could focus...about 2/3 down the 30" barrel. Looking at the muzzle all I could see was the faintest image of the rifling. It was worn almost smooth 3-4" down the bore. Life, injury, and time kept me from shooting it till yesterday. Worst case scenario turned out to be true.

So now I have to find someone to rebore, reline, and rechamber it to shootable condition, or except that the bloody thing is a wall-hanger. The latter is very objectionable.

299439

This thing was beautifully restored to near pristine condition...except for the interior of the barrel. I want to shoot this rifle, with black powder of course.

Can anyone among the real rifle cranks here recommend someone who does reboring and relining work and is familiar with black powder cartridge guns? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

PS: It has all the original Remington barrel markings, including the chambering, 45-70. Re-barreling would destroy all that.

[elmacgyver0]

I wonder if just counter boring back past the worn area would make it shoot.
It would be a lot cheaper than a complete rebore and lining job.

[labradigger1]

Have you slugged the barrel? Try from the breach first then from the muzzle first.

[indian joe]

I wonder if just counter boring back past the worn area would make it shoot.
It would be a lot cheaper than a complete rebore and lining job.

I counterbored a repro sharps that was leading on some minor rust pitting near the muzzle - improved it? yes. the counterbore was a tad less than two inches - accuracy was half reasonable but there was still a tiny rust mark in there - took a jewellers loup to see it. Everything improved when I finally lopped the barrel and reset the front sight - took almost four inches off it. I wondered after if I had made the counterbore bigger maybe it worked better? Not suggesting you lop your original but I would say get it rebored/ relined properly and forget the counterbore - lots of talk on this forum of JES doing this work with good results and prices quoted seem entirely reasonable to me . Sounds to me like its worn from rod cleaning from the muzzle. OR its got gunked up over the years. slug it as others suggest might tell the story - if its tight at the muzzle I would go after it with steel wool and brasso from the breech end - tight as you can get it around an old copper bristle brush - spend a couple hours of elbow grease and see if you can unearth some rifling - might get lucky?

[Edward]

My RB No1 Sporting rifle does not group, it patterns at 50 yards and the pattern is an irregular 1-2 feet. I half suspected it might do that since I got it as a Christmas present for myself. Looking down the breech end of the barrel I saw shiny, sharp rifling as far as my aging eyes could focus...about 2/3 down the 30" barrel. Looking at the muzzle all I could see was the faintest image of the rifling. It was worn almost smooth 3-4" down the bore. Life, injury, and time kept me from shooting it till yesterday. Worst case scenario turned out to be true.

So now I have to find someone to rebore, reline, and rechamber it to shootable condition, or except that the bloody thing is a wall-hanger. The latter is very objectionable.

299439

This thing was beautifully restored to near pristine condition...except for the interior of the barrel. I want to shoot this rifle, with black powder of course.

Can anyone among the real rifle cranks here recommend someone who does reboring and relining work and is familiar with black powder cartridge guns? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

PS: It has all the original Remington barrel markings, including the chambering, 45-70. Re-barreling would destroy all that.

Bob Hoyt 2379 Mount Hope road Fairfield PA 17320 /Ph#717-642-6696 Call early in the morning ,done 8 or 9 for me ! Reline rebore just ask, fast/reasonable/and quite a master of anything with a barrel!/Ed

[greenjoytj]

Maybe the rifling just need to have lead cleaned out of the grooves at the muzzle end.
I would think if rifling lands were to wear down, the wear would start at the chamber lead end where the bullet is initially forced into the rifling lands.

[Bent Ramrod]

Our very own John Taylor can do the reline job for you. I think he’s up and running now after his move.

He uses TJ’s liners. I drilled out a rusted and bulged Sharps-Borchardt military rifle barrel for a TJ’s liner in .45 caliber. Decided to treat myself to the modern 18” rifling twist, although TJ’s also supplies the more traditional 22” twist.

The barrel, after drilling, was a “thin candy shell,” but it retained all the original markings, holes, dovetails and front sight, and after the liner was soldered in, was back to being as solid as the original barrel and shootable as well. I chambered it in .45-70 and the only limit on its shooting precision are the barrel-mounted military sights.

[HWooldridge]

Before you do any surgery, try different lead alloys and loads. I bought a 44-40 in similar shape (i.e., worn about 4” back from the muzzle due to sloppy cleaning) but I eventually discovered it would shoot 11-12 BHN boolits really well, as in one ragged hole at 50 yards.

You might also try some jacketed slugs for the same reason. It might surprise you.

[Dave T]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Yes I have slugged the barrel. It was .458"-.459" depending on where I measured the slug and how well I could read my calipers that day. I was shooting .460" bullets. From the breech the slug was pretty tight until it got near the muzzle and then it slid out pretty easily, and that messed up the slug a bit, affecting the accuracy of the measurement. As it skidded the edges blurred.

Joe, I'm not part of the in-crowd on this forum. I don't have a clue who "JES" might be. Ramrod, John Taylor may be your very own but like the mythical JES, I don't know the man. (smile)

Edward, I will try to get a hold of Mr Hoyt this week and see what he has to say.

Thanks again to everyone.

Dave

[Wayne Smith]

I would reline so you keep the original caliber to match the marking on the barrel. There is a section of Vendor Sponsors and I know John is listed there, I'm not sure if Jessie is.

[indian joe]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Yes I have slugged the barrel. It was .458"-.459" depending on where I measured the slug and how well I could read my calipers that day. I was shooting .460" bullets. From the breech the slug was pretty tight until it got near the muzzle and then it slid out pretty easily, and that messed up the slug a bit, affecting the accuracy of the measurement. As it skidded the edges blurred.

Joe, I'm not part of the in-crowd on this forum. I don't have a clue who "JES" might be. Ramrod, John Taylor may be your very own but like the mythical JES, I don't know the man. (smile)

Edward, I will try to get a hold of Mr Hoyt this week and see what he has to say.

Thanks again to everyone.

Dave

Dave.
I dont have the specifics just read the fellers here - downunder we dont have access to the same people you do - all three smiths mentioned get good reviews and to me prices seem quite reasonable. John Taylor is active on this forum wont take much trouble to find him.

[Dave T]

I would reline so you keep the original caliber to match the marking on the barrel. There is a section of Vendor Sponsors and I know John is listed there, I'm not sure if Jessie is.

Seems like ever since I passed 70 years I'm getting dumber rather than smarter. Case in point. I just went through the "Vendor Sponsors" list 3-4 times. Didn't find any mention of barrel work of any kind. Getting old sucks hind tit.

Sorry to be a pain in the arss,
Dave

[GL49]

I think this is where you'll want to go to find John Taylor. Everybody on the forum has good things to say about his work.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?2728-John-Taylor

Jesse Ocumpaugh can be found at
http://35caliber.com/
I don't know if he'll put a liner in a barrel, I know he can rebore them. He's a couple of hours north of me in Oregon, hopefully I'll get a Miroku 1886 to him this summer to get bored to 50 Alaskan. I've been threatening to do that for a couple of years, just never got around to it. Once again, everybody praises the work he does.

[Dave T]

Thanks again to all the helpful replies. I did find contact info for Mr Taylor over on CASCity.com, and I have been in touch with him. Now all I have to do is figure out how to package this heavy barreled action and ship it off. Looking forward to one day being able to shoot this RB No 1 Sporting Rifle.

Dave

[LIMPINGJ]

https://johntaylormachine.com/

[577450]

I would go with the counterbore approach first. I have a .43 Spanish that did that and I wanted to use in deer season. When I found that the bullet would drop into the bore full length, I cut the barrel back to the front sight ,crowned with a countersink, and it was 2 or 3 inches at 50 yards. Wish I was set up to counterbore but the rifle wasn't worth a lot and it got the job done. A reline or new barrel may be overkill. John

[skeettx]

Linotype and bullet diameter as large as the chamber allows
Gas check would help

Mike

[Dave T]

Linotype and bullet diameter as large as the chamber allows
Gas check would help

Mike

Neither of those ideas are acceptable (at least to me) for shooting black powder. I want to be able to shoot ammunition that is close to what this gun would have fired in the 1880s.

Dave

[skeettx]

Dave
AH, more data, then shoot a SOFT bullet and let the black pump it up for a barrel seal.
Mike

[Dave T]

Dave
AH, more data, then shoot a SOFT bullet and let the black pump it up for a barrel seal.
Mike

Mike,

My bullets are 1-16 alloy, which is what I've read was the original alloy for the 45-70 cartridge.

Dave

[Wayne Smith]

Mike,

My bullets are 1-16 alloy, which is what I've read was the original alloy for the 45-70 cartridge.

Dave

It was for Sharps, Remington used 1-20.

[John in PA]

Just a thought. I believe you stated that the rifling is clean and sharp as far as you can see from the breech and that only the last third seems affected. Is there a possibility that the last third is badly leaded rather than shot out or rusted out? Plug the bore with a wood plug, fill it with mercury and let it stand muzzle down for a couple days. Then carefully drain the mercury off and either thump the muzzle on a block of wood or use a dry bronze bore brush and brush out the lead/mercury amalgum. Or, if you have access, use one of the fancy electronic lead removing gizmos)

[Dave T]

Thanks for the thought John but it's already off the the gunsmith for a re-bore and reline. I scrubbed the muzzle end "vigerously" and the appearance of almost no rifling remained the same.

Dave

[scattershot]

That’s a beautiful rifle, please keep us informed of your progress.