Shooting wonky wadcutters

[techie]

299122
(What looks like the slanted bottom end of the leftmost bullet is an illusion.)
When I posted about the misshapen .38 DEWC bullets (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?441101-Asymmetric-commercial-DEWCs) I had received from Missouri Bullet company via Midway, the consensus was that I should load them sprue end up, if at all. But one poster, Winger Ed., said to load them sprue down to look better, and thought accuracy would be about the same either way.

Before I heard from MBC that they would replace the bullets, I had loaded about 20 of them, 10 with the bad end down and 11 with it up (I miscounted while loading). I loaded them in mixed .38 SP brass, with 3.0 grains HP-38, with a very light crimp in the crimp groove. I shot groups from a rest at 25 yards from my 8-3/8" barreled S&W Model 27-2.

Here are the targets:
Wonky end up:
299123

Wonky end down:
299124

These groups are actually about the same size, and neither is satisfactory, but the one with the bad end down is clearly better. Why is that so, since so much experience seems to prove that deformation at the base is worse than deformation at the tip?

My theory is that it's the loading process. My RCBS seater stem, though marked "WC", is clearly designed for SWC bullets. It has a circular rim around a flat depression rather than a flat surface. This has never been an issue with properly made bullets, but when I seated these bullets with the pancake of lead up, flakes and slivers of lead came off almost every bullet. Originally I thought that this additional deformation near the rim of the bullet might affect its aerodynamics, but in reading the sticky on "trailing edge failure" I realized that I was getting off-center seating pressure, causing the bullets to be seated with a tilt. This seems way more plausible as a cause of the random scattering in the first group.

Any thoughts?

[Winger Ed.]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]299122. But one poster, Winger Ed., said to load them sprue down to look better, and thought accuracy would be about the same either way.


Any thoughts?

It's sort of like the way they shoot handguns in da 'hood---- by holding their '9' at a 90 degree angle:

Looks, and style are MUCH more important than accuracy.:bigsmyl2:

[ShooterAZ]

This is why most of us cast our own boolits. We have more control over the quality, and ultimately the accuracy of our loads. I personally have had no such problems with the RCBS seating dies, even with flat nosed wadcutters. My initial thoughts are that the cases are not "belled" quite enough before seating. That's my theory anyway.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think, once you figure out how to seat them properly with ugly side up, your groups will be even better.
I'd "fill" that cupped seater plug with some epoxy so it's flat.
then as ShooterAZ says, be sure you have enough flare/bell on case mouth.

[whisler]

Hot melt glue also works (for a while) to fill the void.

[techie]

I personally have had no such problems with the RCBS seating dies, even with flat nosed wadcutters. My initial thoughts are that the cases are not "belled" quite enough before seating. That's my theory anyway.

As I said in the first post, like you I've never had a problem with that stem using decent bullets.

For belling I'm using a Dillon powder-through expander that a friend with a lathe turned into an M die for me. This has greatly improved how my bullets stand in the case, though I am definitely eager to learn ways to do it better. Here's a Matt's Bullets button nose WC ready to seat.

299128

Anyway, if the main problem was with my belling I'd expect both groups to be about the same. Not that the sprue down group is good, it is just clearly better than the sprue up group.

Overall I am really glad these bullets are going back to MBC to be melted down.


This is why most of us cast our own boolits. We have more control over the quality, and ultimately the accuracy of our loads.

I don't cast bullets (yet) but if I keep reading threads here I could get tempted.

[kenton]

I have made a few "custom" seating stems my self for that reason. If your lathe friend is game you might get them to make you a flat point seating stem for the cost of a piece of 12L14 steel hex stock from mcmaster carr. Maybe make a deal that they keep the leftover material as "payment".

On a different note. A friend pointed out if a threaded rod is called all-thread, hex stock should be called all-head.

[Forty Rod Ray]

Might ask what MBC had to say? Me……. I would have said “ …. Very sorry, what’s your address, how many did you order”?

[techie]

Might ask what MBC had to say? Me……. I would have said “ …. Very sorry, what’s your address, how many did you order”?

That's pretty much what they said. Very gracious and pretty prompt. They needed to get new moulds, it wasn't just a loose sprue plate or something like that. Assuming they walk the talk, I will definitely buy from them again.