Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10mm-vs-44mag-bear-guns/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=outdoorlife&fbclid=IwAR01ZZdkAw0tTVioxPSbOhLOBQtMgKTCUlOkpQrK5 KyGPiS4mbCENgK0QsY

We settle the 10mm vs 44 Mag. debate—and wreck our hands in the process

BY JOHN B. SNOW | PUBLISHED APR 14, 2022 1:07 PM


In the great bear-gun debate—10mm vs .44 Mag.—which camp are you in? Without question there’s been a major shift from the .44 Remington Magnum and other fire-belching revolvers toward semiautos chambered in 10mm Auto for those wanting a measure of personal protection against bruins and other potentially dangerous animals. I live on the boundary of grizzly country in southwest Montana and all my local gun stores confirm this trend. Backcountry adventurers, whether they are hunting, fishing, or hiking, are opting for autoloaders over wheel guns.

A Lighter, More Consistent Shotgun Trigger Pull Can Make You a Better Shot

You’ve Got to Be Kidding
Plenty of old-school handgunners scoff at this idea. When comparing the energy of a .44 Magnum to that of a 10mm, there is no competition they insist. In their telling, all those extra rounds in a semiauto 10mm will just give you that many more opportunities to piss off Yogi before he flays you alive.

Bear Guns By the Numbers

And if showing off a ballistic chart were all it took to dissuade a would-be ursine assailant, they would certainly be right. A hopped up .44 Mag. load, such as the Buffalo Bore 340-grain +P+ hard cast flat nose bullet generates a whopping 1,533 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. Compare that to their 10mm Auto mono-metal Dangerous Game load that produces 607 foot-pounds of energy with a 190-grain bullet at 1,200 fps. By that yardstick, the 10mm Auto seems pitiful indeed.

Case closed, right? Not so fast, the 10mm vs .44 Mag. debate isn’t just about ballistics. The problem is you actually have to hit a bear in order to have a chance of stopping it. And in light of a grizzly’s top speed—a shocking 35 mph—that is no easy task. Especially with a hard-kicking handgun torquing on your wrist.

Bear Gun Shootout: The Drill
To get a better handle on this debate I enlisted the help of two fellow pistoleros: Sean Murphy, a USPSA Grand Master, and Outdoor Life staff writer Tyler Freel, who by virtue of living in Alaska hunts bears every year. We conducted a live-fire experiment at Gunsite Academy in the form of a simple, but challenging drill. The three of us shot an array of five knockdown steel poppers from far to near to simulate a bear charge. The farthest target was in the center and then we zig-zagged from far left to far right and then to near left and near right to add in erratic motion and increase the stress level. The farthest target was approximately 20 yards away and the closest were about 12 yards downrange. Watch the video above to see the drill for yourself.


We used four guns for this test. The revolver was a Smith & Wesson 329 PD, which is a Scandium framed .44 Rem. Mag. The great virtue of the 329 PD is its weight. Unloaded it tips the scales at a svelte 23 ounces. I carried this gun for many years while hunting and fishing in Montana, Alaska, Wyoming and Idaho on both my hip and in a chest rig, and I never found it to be burdensome. But its light weight is also its biggest liability. Shooting it with full-house defensive rounds is extremely painful. As the results of our test show, it is much slower and less accurate to boot, despite its excellent, large, and bright fiber-optic front sight.

The autos we used included the following: Glock G20, equipped with a Surefire X400 Ultra, Aimpoint Acro 2.0 red dot, and KKM barrel (35.4 ounces); Smith & Wesson M&P 10mm M 2.0 with a Trijicon RMR (28.5 ounces); and the Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 3.8” Compact with a Hex Dragonfly red dot, Streamlight TLR-3, and GoGun Gas Pedal (33.6 ounces).

10mm vs .44 mag data
The results of our 10mm vs .44 Mag. bear charge drill. Outdoor Life
Bear Gun Shootout: The .44 Magnum
During the 10mm vs .44 Mag. test, none of us were looking forward to running the S&W 329 PD with the Hornady 240-grain JHP loads I had brought along. But while our hands were fresh we shot the revolver first. According to Hornady’s data, the XTP bullets from a 7.5-inch barrel clock at 1350 fps and generate 971 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. And I can vouch that you feel every one of the foot-pounds when you pull the 329’s trigger. (I’m glad I didn’t bring the 305-grain hardcast bullets I normally carry in the revolver, which step out at 1,325 fps with 1,189 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.)


Not only was the muzzle flip difficult to control, but running the revolver quickly was painful as hell. And quickly was a relative term. Our average run on the five-target array was 5.5 seconds with a -1.3 accuracy score. (Meaning we missed an average of 1.3 targets during the drill.) Interestingly, one of the misses was an edge hit that failed to knock over the steel popper, which drove home our collective observation of how difficult the revolver was to control while going for vital hits.


Bear Gun Shootout: The 10mm Autos
We all shot the 10mm Autos much better, despite the fact that the webs of our shooting hands were swollen and bruised after running the .44. We alternated through the pistols, running them in no particular order, but recording our impressions after each run. For ammo we ran 180-grain JHPs from Federal and Hornady loaded to similar velocities. Published data gives speeds of 1,275 fps and a muzzle energy of 650 foot-pounds.

As the chart indicates, the average speeds for the Glock (3.0 seconds), Springfield Armory (3.19 seconds), and the S&W M&P 10mm (3.67 seconds) were vastly superior to what we got with the revolver. Moreover, our accuracy with the autos, which were all fitted with red-dot sights, was much better. Most of the runs were clean with an occasional single dropped target for an overall average accuracy score of -0.3 with each pistol.


The differences in the speed among the 10mms isn’t surprising. The extra weight in the Glock G20 thanks to the Acro and the X400 light, combined with the custom stippling, make it easy to shoot well and fast. Likewise, the gas pedal on the Springfield Armory XD-M helped it perform better. The stock (other than the red dot) S&W M&P 10mm was lighter and therefore slowest of the lot, though with some better stippling up front and a light on board it would certainly run a bit faster.

10mm vs .44 Mag.: Pros and Cons
Prior to the test, all the shooters had been leaning toward the 10mm Auto, and after running the drills we were convinced that our instincts were spot-on. When you weigh the relative advantages and disadvantages of the platforms, we couldn’t bring ourselves to advocate for the .44 Mag.

.44 Mag. Pros:

Light Weight
Packable
Formidable Muzzle Energy

44 Mag. Cons:

Slow
Less Accurate
Limited to 6-Rounds
Slow to Reload
Painful to Shoot
Difficult to Master
Limited Accessories
10mm Auto Pros:

Fast
Accurate
Higher Magazine Capacity
Easier to Master
Less Painful to Shoot
Easy to Improve Performance by Customization
Compatible With a Light
10mm Auto Cons:

Less Muzzle Energy Per Round
Slightly Heavier to Carry
Final Thoughts: 10mm vs .44 Mag.

It seems that fans of the .44 Magnum for bear protection only have one thing to hang their argument on: muzzle energy. And I don’t mean to discount that. If I had to hit a charging bear with just one bullet, bigger is certainly better. But given that the hits will come more slowly and less frequently, and that with a revolver there are fewer chances to connect—that single advantage becomes less persuasive in the 10mm vs .44 Mag. debate.

So, yes, the 10mm brings a lot more to the party. It’s quick to deploy, delivers more consistent hits, and with magazines capable of holding 15 rounds (or more) provides more opportunities to kill an attacking bear. A friend of mine who was attacked by a grizzly in Western Montana a few years ago during bow season recalls how the sow had him by the arm and that if he’d had a pistol he could have shot her in the head any number of times. She savaged his arm and shoulder and threw him down a 15-foot cliff, severely injuring him. He now carries a modified Glock G20 everywhere.

I also think the ability to easily add a light to the 10mm Autos is a big advantage. Though I don’t know of any real-world examples that back this up, it seems that during an attack in low light or darkness that the blinding effect of a weapon light could act as a significant deterrent during a bear encounter. It isn’t impossible to mount a light on a revolver, but .44-Magnum wheelguns built to accept lights are extremely uncommon.


Finally, there’s the issue of mastery and practice. Put simply: You’ll spend much more time practicing with a 10mm Auto because it isn’t so punishing. Shooting is a perishable, athletic skill and unless one takes the time to establish and maintain competency, those skills will diminish or fail to take root in the first place. And without those skills, a person who finds themselves fighting for their life will be in even greater danger. Viewed through that lens, the more forgiving nature of the 10mm Auto will trump the .44 Magnum every time.

[missionary5155]

We have a 44 mag and 10 mm. A 44 mag with a 285 grain or heavier Cast FN will still be my choice.
I can down load the 44 for "practice" while the 10mm (as much as I like it) will never get the 285 cast going.

[barkerwc4362]

I am with missionary on this one. I have a 5" 629, a 1006, and a Ruger GP100 in 10mm. For bear I would be toting the 44 mag 629. While I love my 10mms I will take the bigger, heavier bullets of the 44 mag anytime. For really big bear no pistol is big enough.
Bill

[rking22]

Wow , shocking!!! So who would have thought a heavier gun shooting a bullet just over half the weight at 80%of the velocity is easier to hit with?? Wow,

[dverna]

The test was flawed. They should have used a steel .44 Mag with a 6” barrel.

Having said that, I cannot shoot heavy recoil guns well so I would still pick the 10mm.

[lar45]

My 45acp loads are a 275 from hunter's supply running just over 1000fps in my 7" long slide.
I can see the point of hits on target are better than misses. Still I'd rather have a 500 something, or atleast a 480 SRH bobbed to 5.5"ish.

[Minerat]

I'll keep my 5.5" SRH in 454 Cassull with the 310 hard cast. I noticed the Smith has bare sights while all of the pistols wore red dots, real fair accuracy test.

[HWooldridge]

In my humble opinion, 44 mag revolver trumps 10mm auto simply because the likelihood of a potentially fatal jam is much lower with the wheel gun. I am very comfortable with my 6-1/2” M29 and would always pick it over an autoloader. A 1911 in 45acp is miles ahead of a pointed stick but my second choice would be a Blackhawk in 45 LC.

[dkf]

Those lightweight alloy .44mag revolvers may be nice to carry but the nice ends when you have to shoot them any amount. I can only imagine shooting max loads with bullets over 300gr out them.

[Mal Paso]

Flawed! 3 different 10mm guns against a poor excuse for a 44. I have a 4" Redhawk and a 4" Anaconda as dedicated all steel woods guns. They are not as pleasant to shoot as a 6 inch but I can shoot 100 full house rounds in a range session, which I do. Can't imagine what a 329 PD is for. How are you going to practice with something like that. I practice with what I carry, full house loads.

I plan on a spine shot from the front and the #503s will go straight through 14 inches of cedar.

A lot is attitude, if you are prepared and confident you are less likely to have a problem. After many years of signs I finally saw my brown bear. He was taking great pains to go around my camp up North. That's not to say things can't go sideways, we have had 2 cougars go nuts and kill everything in sight in this neighborhood.

I miss my brown bear. He ran the neighborhood, there weren't any black bears getting into things when he was around.

EOR LOL

[sixshot]

Apples & Oranges! You don't carry for convenience, you carry to protect yourself so carry something you can hit with, a bear isn't impressed with misses. A 44 magnum with full power loads will take care of you if you have a full size gun, packing a 329 shorty might make you decide to save the last shots for yourself after shooting that first one.
I like a good 10mm but a practiced hand with a good 44 is better bear medicine.

Dick

[Shawlerbrook]

I am Old school so I will take a revolver or a semi auto.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

The test was flawed. They should have used a steel .44 Mag with a 6” barrel.

Having said that, I cannot shoot heavy recoil guns well so I would still pick the 10mm.

And these guys definitely got more hits on target faster with the 10mm. That strikes me as important.

[Markopolo]

Well I will tell you this… I would NOT be carrying a light 44 framed gun… 23oz???? No Way. Of course they tipped the scales inappropriately. I learned that the hard way.. a super red hawk or a Blackhawk, or my ported Taurus would be a way more appropriate choice for a real comparison.

299003

299004

299005

You wanna bring a 10mm to this party??? Go ahead! Most people do NOT realize what a mature bear looks like. They loaded the deck completely for that comparison in my opinion.

Marko

[dverna]

Good post Marko!!!


edited to add:

Frankly, for most of us, we will never encounter a bear that wants to harm us and the only bears we will ever see are black bears. Where I live, a big black bear is 350 lbs. The record bear in MI is 730 lbs (live weight) and it was shot in the Upper Peninsula...not where I live. The bear was shot over a bait pile and was not attacking anyone. The bear hunters I know got 13 bears last year. Six were in my area and 7 in the UP. They ranged from 125 to 275 lbs field dressed.

If I lived in a place like Marko, I would likely carry a full size .44 Mag as I cannot handle anything more powerful. But here in my area, I carry a Glock 22 as that is what I carry for two legged problems. Some of these discussions are, for the most part and for most people, an excuse to have a new toy. I am involved with a group of bear hunters that runs dogs. The biggest hand gun they carry is a Glock 10mm. Another guy I know who runs with another group of bear hunters used to carry a .357 Mag until he got mauled (He was being a fool and trying to impress the ladies. He walked to within feet of a bear surrounded by dogs to make a point blank head shot.) That fool bought a .500 S&W and he cannot shoot it as the recoil is too much for him.

Carry the biggest gun you can handle, but if you live east of the Mississippi, a bear charging you is rare unless you do something stupid.

[Tripplebeards]

I have a S&W 329 niteguard, a 8 3/4” ported Anaconda, and a brand new Glock 20. Use to own a brushed chrome desert eagle 50 AE that would recoil literally above my head by the time it was all out of steam. I’ll take the extra weight of my 35 whelen carbine pump slung over my shoulder all day long. A pistol is better than nothing but I wouldn’t trust my life on a big grizzly with one no mater what caliber or configuration if I had a lightweight rifle to sling over my shoulder. I’ve shot enough deer with the 50 AE and 44 mag rifle to watch them ALL run like they weren’t hit accept one that was back boned. I’d hate to miss a brown bears brain and, or, CNS when it’s on a full charge.

[Mal Paso]

Look at the name of the author, it's a Snow Job.

[memtb]

I’m pleased to see that the majority of you experienced shooters chose the 44. I still can’t fathom how ft/lbs energy is mentioned…..as at typical handgun velocities, energy is a pipe dream and means near nothing!

Yes, with the revolver is more difficult to get more rounds down range. But again, to throw ice water on many shooter’s beliefs, if you must rely on multiple hits to disable/stop your adversary …..you have chosen the wrong cartridge.

While certainly an in depth article, required much time and ink……it’s a poor effort to offer a true comparison in cartridge/handgun options! JMO

Oh by the way, give me the 44 “everyday all day”…..unless I can get a 45LC (capable of higher pressure cartridges), .454 or .460! ;) memtb

[Jtarm]

The test was flawed. They should have used a steel .44 Mag with a 6” barrel.

Having said that, I cannot shoot heavy recoil guns well so I would still pick the 10mm.

Yeah I don’t doubt that most shooters would do better with the 10mm, but testing only the 329 pretty much guaranteed the outcome.

BTW, I worry much more about mosquitoes & ticks than bears.

[MGD]

No an expert on bears, but I have never heard of a bear with a bullet energy meter on it. No mention of penetration of dense muscle and heavy bone. Real life isn't a video game. More of a marginal of ineffective cartridge do not equal a larger cartridge. The truth is that any handgun is difficult to shoot well and heavy recoiling handguns are much more difficult to shoot well. Unfortunately this can't be resolved in the gun shop. You must train well and often to develop and maintain the needed proficiency with heavy recoiling handguns. There are no magic bullets (Pun intended). You have to put in the hard work and shoot lots of ammo.

[white eagle]

this comparison is a joke?
for a bear confrontation I would take neither, only cause I can't run

[mtnman31]

I think the comparison would have been improved by including a heavier framed revolver for the 44. They had multiple 10mm's, no reason to not include multiple 44's. I think the semi-autos they used were a good representation of what buyers are likely to encounter if in the market for a 10mm. Only using one .44 was doing the .44 a bit of a disservice. I understand the theory behind the 10 being able to put more rounds on the target than a 44, but on a big griz, penetration is going to be just as important as multiple hits.

As someone else mentioned, if likely to encounter black bears out east, a 10mm is probably suitable. If I was back out west and potentially facing a grizzly, I'd want a .44. That said, personally, I won't be using either of those calibers for bear protection - I'll be carrying my favorite .480 Ruger.

[sharps4590]

He set the parameters for the outcome he wanted. I suspect everyone knows what is said about opinions.

[.429&H110]

Nobody mentioned Boolits!

My .44 SRH shooting hollow points vs 10 mm shooting hard lead?
My .44 SRH launching 250 gr keith boolits vs 10 mm anything?
It's all about product placement...

My favorite bear load is my wife with her 30-06.
Bears are afraid of my swede,
over and over they ran away,
professional courtesy among predators,
bears won't get within 300 yards of her.

[Shuz]

If I had an encounter with any dangerous critter, two or four legged, I wouldn't worry about my .44 mag jamming!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Being that a variety of handguns were 98% effective in stopping a bear attack and that many times hitting the bear caused the charge to pause i think your selling the 10mm short. Yes, a full size steel .44 mag would be ideal but a glock 20 may be more easily toted and deployed. I would not feel nervous if i had a 10mm.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

If I had an encounter with any dangerous critter, two or four legged, I wouldn't worry about my .44 mag jamming!

I never worried about my 1911 or Glock 34 jamming at matches because they never did.

[popper]

I was amused by the target scenario. 15 mph is 22 fps. And they used RDs. Hogs can run about 10 mph, 15 fps. Shooting a 40sw semi at a cage released hog that ran away from me. Point and click - missed twice. Aim with open sight @ 20 yds got him. I didn't realize how fast they can run - or charge. My point - you got a second to react and shoot - better not miss. A heavy load snubby when he's got a hold of you probably works fine. If you can get the shot.

[sixshot]

I'd like to know how a Glock could be "deployed" faster than a 44 magnum? Wouldn't that depend on the skill level of the shooter & also where he had the gun? My 4 son's & I have taken 25 bears over the years all spot & stalk, I've taken 6 with handguns plus another 3 in Alaska and I can tell you, if you haven't experienced it, the speed that they can move is simply amazing, you can't explain it, you have to see it up close. And you don't see all of the bear up close, you see parts of the bear when it's moving at warp speed, trust me!
I've written about this before but I have a neighbor that was badly mauled by a black bear some years back & barely survived, his dad made a one in a million shot with his bow as the bear charged him or they both would probably be dead. It made national news at the time and they were both on a couple of TV shows telling the story.
Whatever you carry, 10mm or 44, make sure it is close at hand & ready to go because things happen in a hurry when a bear decides to attack. They can cover 40 yds in 3 seconds if they zero in on you, how fast did you say you can draw that gun?????
Dick

[FishHunter357]

I carry a Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull with 325gr jacketed buffalo bore whenever I go near my bear spot and it's rarely the only gun I go out with after seeing how fast and far black bears bolt after undoubtedly fatal shots. My first bear was 320lb and it took off 50+ yds after a 325gr 45-70 FTX through the heart and lungs. As others have said, an attack is unlikely but not unheard of. Accuracy is key, but I'm in the 44 mag column here. Faster, heavier hitting bullet, no feed issues, and no safety. I will say 10mm would certainly be on my list above plenty of other calibers that would probably take down a bear too. I've also hunted deer with 44 mag and 10mm handguns and have had better success with 44 mag. Just my opinion though.

[doghawg]

I've only shot one black bear and that was a 285 pound sow (no cubs) at 32 yards with a .475 Linebaugh in 2020. The speed at which the old gal (9 yrs old by tooth sample) departed was absolutely amazing...just as sixshot pointed out. If she would have been running directly at me I'd have been lucky to get off the second shot.

Edit to add...I'm of the opinion that chambering the 329 in .44 magnum is like mounting a Corvette engine on a riding lawnmower.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Hunting something that can easily kill you must be quite stimulating. When it comes to black bears, i always consider it a treat when i see one in the wild. Got nothing against hunting them though. Last one i saw was about 30 miles North of Duluth on #4, large cinnamon colored one while on my motorcycle. That would have made a fine rug for an avid bear hunter.

[Anchorite]

With a .44 you get a larger meplat than a 10mm. I also think magazine capacity is a false god.

[justindad]

When I got into fistfights in my 20s, I didn’t feel the punches from the other guy. I do not believe I would feel a gun in my hand if I was shooting at a bear. So the 10mm pro of less pain is a fallacy, for me. Practice at max load you can handle, and mix in hot loads for your first two cylinders.
*
I stumbled across 4 black bears in NC once. It seemed like two mommas with two cubs, and one was definitely staring me down (one ran away, which was comforting). They left me alone, but 6 rounds wouldn’t have been enough if they wanted to eat me. Is it possible to be fast enough to defend against a multi-bear attack? If it is, the auto loader would win there.

[pmer]

I had a 10mm glock but the trouble I had with it was it didn't take kindly to upper loads with heavier boolits. Also had a big Ruger snubby but I really had to lean on it to get heavier boolits up 1100 fps. Settled on a plan jane 4 inch model 29, then life was good in the 4 legged snarly critter department.

I have a moving target that rolls down hill towards me. Picture a car tire with a piece of card board on top of it picking up speed as it rolls down the hill. I don't think I ever emptied a six gun before it rolls by and I'm lucky to get 1 or 2 hits on it.

[rintinglen]

Gosh, who'd have thunk it--an optically sighted pistol that weighs over a half pound more shooting a weaker, less powerful cartridge is easier to shoot than an iron sighted revolver that is way too light for the heavier, more, powerful caliber. I am surprised.

I would of thought that these Glockophile Fanbois would used a Boyd or American Deringer two shot snubbie. THAT would have really proved how much better the 10mm is than the 44.

[Bigslug]

Handgun versus charging bears. . .

299094

Yeah. . .It's kind of like that.

I might find something resembling confidence in the form of a Mossberg full of 1.25 ounce slugs, but I think arguing over handgun calibers in this context is kind of like selecting which religion is best for deluding yourself into believing that the universe actually likes you.

[sixshot]

justindad, not likely that you saw 2 momma bears with 2 cubs. It's very rare that a bear only has one cub, it's usually two or three, & four happens at times but two or three is much more common. If one ran off that was probably momma & you were looking at three, second year cubs that she was about to kick off & go looking for a boar to breed.
The sow that attacked my neighbor had two cubs trailing her & he was wearing camo (bow hunting) and was crouched down as she walked by. When she saw movement she attacked so fast he couldn't even stand up & she was in it to kill him, he was badly injured & his dad ran down the mountain towards the screams & the 175 lb sow attacked Nolan & he made the miracle shot with his bow at the charging bear, hitting her in the spine just above her head, killing her 15 feet from him.
They had to life flight Jason out of the remote mountains because he was bleeding out from his injuries. They have the bear mounted in their house.
Dick

[.429&H110]

Alaska has ways of sorting people out.
As the Sourdough taught the Cheechako:
"Cowards didn't come here, and the weak didn't make it."
But nowadays we have AlaskaAir...
My neighbor had a blacktail carcass over his shoulder, walking through the bush on Kodiak at dusk. Was only Grace of God that he didn't bleed out. He never saw the bear. Golly that left some scars.
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.

Gary at Arctic Gunworks proposed to test hard cast boolits on spruce firewood, shoot the woodpile let the children split out the slugs, to make kindling and admire penetration and boolit weight. Gary's theory was inches of wood equals inches of bear. Some spruce is kinda soft, though.

[justindad]

I have a moving target that rolls down hill towards me. Picture a car tire with a piece of card board on top of it picking up speed as it rolls down the hill. I don't think I ever emptied a six gun before it rolls by and I'm lucky to get 1 or 2 hits on it.
That is awesome.

[sixshot]

Wood can be a very good test medium for hard cast bullets, as can flesh. Took this Cape Buffalo last fall in South Africa using a Ruger bisley 45 using a 325 gr water quenched, powder coated bullet to knock it down with the first shot with an exit & then used a 308 gr water quenched, powder coated cast bullet to knock it down the second time as a finisher. The second bullet still weighed 308 grs when I weighed it back when I got home, it just flattened the nose a bit when it hit the off side shoulder. Velocity was 1355 fps from my 8.5" bisley.
https://i.imgur.com/O3yJj60h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U0ZiAtAh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mn8H0J6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uNodLPbh.jpg
I took several other animals with a 282 gr cast HP, Zebra, Kudu, Nyala. Used a FA 41 magnum on the Gemsbok.
Dick

[sharps4590]

Impressive.

[memtb]

Congrats! It’s pretty difficult to argue with success like that! ;)

How many handgun hunters have you seen lined up with their 10mm’s for Africa’s Big Five? Asking for a friend! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Wow, great post there sixshot! Capstick said a Cape Buffalo looked at you like you owed it money.

[M-Tecs]

Congrats! It’s pretty difficult to argue with success like that! ;)

How many handgun hunters have you seen lined up with their 10mm’s for Africa’s Big Five? Asking for a friend! :bigsmyl2: memtb




https://youtu.be/sZBVnquaLXM

[Catshooter]

Reading the OP, it seems to me that there's plenty of sucess with and without the big/bigger bores. Thirty eight special worked three for four? Wow. I never would have called that.

Interesting how many guys ignore facts. Thanks for the interesting data M-Tecs!

[Thumbcocker]

So which bear won the shoot out?

[Anchorite]

There were some guys out west years ago that did a simulation with a basketball rolling downhill as a bear target. Very interesting results were observed, as I recall. You can’t expect to get off multiple rounds at all, hence *a* conclusion was carry the biggest round you can shoot and hope for the best.

[memtb]

M-Tecs……lot of “stunt shooters” out there! I suspect that he may have chosen a different cartridge, had he not had a PH with a darn big rifle cartridge backing him up!

“Stunt Shooting” gets you lots of YouTube views. Of course, getting stomped into a small puddle would also get a lot of views! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[M-Tecs]

M-Tecs……lot of “stunt shooters” out there! I suspect that he may have chosen a different cartridge, had he not had a PH with a darn big rifle cartridge backing him up!

“Stunt Shooting” gets you lots of YouTube views. Of course, getting stomped into a small puddle would also get a lot of views! :bigsmyl2: memtb

If you hunt Africa you have a PH backing you up period. The point you asked for an example and I provided one. It got the job done..............as it has for several others accounts that I am aware of.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

An interesting fact, in many states dogs are the most likely animal to kill a human. Coyotes and cows too! In Alaska and Maine it is the Moose ( not sure if it is people running into them in their automobiles). Stinging insects and snakes as well. Black bears are mentioned frequently as well.

[sixshot]

I have seen the Razor Dobbs video before on Ruger Forum & I don't believe it was a stunt, I think he's a very fine shooter. What I've never figured out is how he did it legally, since you can't take a semi auto handgun into Africa. Only revolvers & even then many countries won't allow them! They have to be scoped & at least in South Africa have to have at least an 8" barrel. When I made my first safari several years ago you were allowed to take 3 handguns, now you can only take 2, either revolver or single shots. Also most probably know about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker a few years ago killing a huge Brown bear that was trying to kill 2 of his fishing clients, he killed the bear with a 9mm! Not a good choice but that's all he was carrying. Also the world record Grizzly was taken with a 22 rimfire, I think by a woman in Alaska.

[M-Tecs]

I have seen the Razor Dobbs video before on Ruger Forum & I don't believe it was a stunt, I think he's a very fine shooter. What I've never figured out is how he did it legally, since you can't take a semi auto handgun into Africa. Only revolvers & even then many countries won't allow them! They have to be scoped & at least in South Africa have to have at least an 8" barrel. When I made my first safari several years ago you were allowed to take 3 handguns, now you can only take 2, either revolver or single shots. Also most probably know about famous Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker a few years ago killing a huge Brown bear that was trying to kill 2 of his fishing clients, he killed the bear with a 9mm! Not a good choice but that's all he was carrying. Also the world record Grizzly was taken with a 22 rimfire, I think by a woman in Alaska.

Like most gunfights the number 1 rule is to have a gun. In the actual accounts of handgun use against brown bears honestly I am surprised by how effective the lighter calibers have proven to be.

[memtb]

If you hunt Africa you have a PH backing you up period. The point you asked for an example and I provided one. It got the job done..............as it has for several others accounts that I am aware of.


Absolutely understand the guide requirement. Do you think if legal, he would hunt without back-up…..let’s say Brown’s in willows, African Lions, Cape Buff, ect. in “pucker brush”. Jussay’n! memtb

[M-Tecs]

Absolutely understand the guide requirement. Do you think if legal, he would hunt without back-up…..let’s say Brown’s in willows, African Lions, Cape Buff, ect. in “pucker brush”. Jussay’n! memtb

I perfer not to try to guess what other people might or might not do.

Per actual documented brown bear shootings the 10mm has accounted for itself well.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/04/update-of-pistol-defenses-against-bears-123-cases-98-effective/

Here's one with a 357 https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/

[pmer]

There were some guys out west years ago that did a simulation with a basketball rolling downhill as a bear target. Very interesting results were observed, as I recall. You can’t expect to get off multiple rounds at all, hence *a* conclusion was carry the biggest round you can shoot and hope for the best.

https://imgur.com/a/dJ0ZrMu

Here's a picture of my "bear". It's fun to blaze away at it but eventually you want to hit the thing... it makes you use your sights and wait till it's closer than you might think.
I have a saw horse and ramp with a rope that starts it moving. The frame has counter weights on the bottom to keep the target on top but at the start the frame swings back and forth.
It's not lite, it could take you out if it's coming straight for you!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

[M-Tecs]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

Yes it is.

I will be spending about a month in Alaska this summer in prime bear county. I have a 460 S&W but it is too large and heavy for daily carry for what I am doing. I have 44 Mag and 45 Colt single and double actions if I want.

However I will be carrying a FN FNX 45 in 460 Rowland for bear defense. 15 plus 1 of mid-level 44 mag should get it done if needed. 250 grains at 1,300 fps for 16 shots is nothing to sneeze at. https://www.460rowland.com/shop/ammo/large-and-dangerous-game-250gr/

I do plan on an actual Grizzly at the same location. If it's a spring hunt I will use my 375 H&H or my 416 Rigby. If it's a fall hunt archery is an option.

[Daekar]

So what I learned from the OP is that muzzle energy doesn't matter now, and that an 8-shot 357mag really can do everything.

23oz 44mag... why are so many writers total idiots?

[Markopolo]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

Way better comparison… and I agree with his end conclusion as well.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Yes it is.

I will be spending about a month in Alaska this summer in prime bear county. I have a 460 S&W but it is too large and heavy for daily carry for what I am doing. I have 44 Mag and 45 Colt single and double actions if I want.

However I will be carrying a FN FNX 45 in 460 Rowland for bear defense. 15 plus 1 of mid-level 44 mag should get it done if needed. 250 grains at 1,300 fps for 16 shots is nothing to sneeze at. https://www.460rowland.com/shop/ammo/large-and-dangerous-game-250gr/

I do plan on an actual Grizzly at the same location. If it's a spring hunt I will use my 375 H&H or my 416 Rigby. If it's a fall hunt archery is an option.

Have a good trip, try not to have any king crab farts.

[sixshot]

Good luck on your summer trip & your hunt. I'm guessing a 460 Rowland with 16 rounds of 250's has got to weigh a little bit.
You should be well armed.
Dick

[FishHunter357]

https://imgur.com/a/dJ0ZrMu

Here's a picture of my "bear". It's fun to blaze away at it but eventually you want to hit the thing... it makes you use your sights and wait till it's closer than you might think.
I have a saw horse and ramp with a rope that starts it moving. The frame has counter weights on the bottom to keep the target on top but at the start the frame swings back and forth.
It's not lite, it could take you out if it's coming straight for you!

This is awesome. I really want to make one of these this summer now!! I'd love to see it in action. The other post about rolling a tire got me thinking of putting the target in the center of the tire (no wheel) as it's rolling.

[M-Tecs]

Good luck on your summer trip & your hunt. I'm guessing a 460 Rowland with 16 rounds of 250's has got to weigh a little bit.
You should be well armed.
Dick

The FN FNX 45 is 33.2 ounces. I am not sure what the muzzle brake weighs but with 16 rounds and the brake it's about a pound more. That's just a hair over 3 pounds. That's a lot of firepower in a very controllable package.

A friend owns and operates a salmon and grizzly bear guide service. I will be fishing and helping him get ready for the fall hunting and fishing clients. I will catch the end of the king run, the peak if the pink run and the start of the silver run.

If I book a bear hunt it would be about 1/2 price. If I fill a cancelation it will be almost free.



https://youtu.be/Yx9mJ1BRYLA

[M-Tecs]

Have a good trip, try not to have any king crab farts.

Last time I was up there he did feed me more king crab than I could eat and I can put away a lot of king crab.

[sixshot]

Ha! Shouldn't be hard to find a bear if you smell like a fish......... good luck!

Dick

[M-Tecs]

Ha! Shouldn't be hard to find a bear if you smell like a fish......... good luck!

Dick

Just a little guy but sometimes you just need to look out the window.

299159

Not a little one
299162

[pmer]

This is awesome. I really want to make one of these this summer now!! I'd love to see it in action. The other post about rolling a tire got me thinking of putting the target in the center of the tire (no wheel) as it's rolling.

I found an old video with my son shooting a model 10 at it. Who knows what one can come up with when you have some spare time and some junk laying around. :Fire:

https://youtu.be/nxJaXKXYX4c

Well maybe not, the censors have spoken

[dverna]

This is a much better comparison imho; https://youtu.be/ei5d_BkiwRA

That was an excellent evaluation without BS.

IMO if I was going to hunt large bears with a guide to back me up, the .44 Mag would be a better choice. But if I am alone and selecting a pistol to ward off an attack, I would prefer the 10mm. Those extra shots could be the deal makers. In addition, I have done a lot of pistol shooting and I am not going to spray and pray. If anything, I am at the other end of the spectrum and tend towards accuracy over quantity of bullets downrange.

I would also consider which platform draws easier and comes up to the target "naturally". That is going to vary by individual.

I liked the three second test and that he did it three times to get a decent average.

Again thanks for posting it!!!

[Jim22]

If I book a bear hunt it would be about 1/2 price. If I fill a cancelation it will be almost free.



https://youtu.be/Yx9mJ1BRYLA

Bring a rifle. I have been to Karluk lake.

Jim

[Cast10]

I have not idea on big bear’s……But I’ve owned/reloaded several 44 mag’s and carry a Glock 20/10mm.

I recall some Alaska guide’s saying “I’d rather a hunter bring a /06 he can shoot than a 338 he can’t.”

[memtb]

I have not idea on big bear’s……But I’ve owned/reloaded several 44 mag’s and carry a Glock 20/10mm.

I recall some Alaska guide’s saying “I’d rather a hunter bring a /06 he can shoot than a 338 he can’t.”


A lot of guides enjoy shooting client’s wounded game! It brings some pleasure to the many hours of hard work and dealing with “entitled” clients! :smile: memtb

[Cast10]

A lot of guides enjoy shooting client’s wounded game! It brings some pleasure to the many hours of hard work and dealing with “entitled” clients! :smile: memtb

No. After the first shot, they all unload anyway…….

[rbuck351]

One would be very lucky to get one shot at an attacking brown bear and getting several shots pushes the odds way up. 44mag will hit much harder on the one shot you may get. I certainly wouldn't be carrying a super light weight stubby one though.

[pmer]

I'm glad there's lots of choices for hand guns. IHMO the extra rounds from an autoloader would be useful for warning shots and when the bear is farther out.

You can download a 44 mag, 45 Colt to 250 grains at a 1000 fps and be where a 10mm wishes it could be. You could even have ascending velocities where the last ones are going much faster.

I'd be nervous about a souped up autoloader unless it could shoot hundreds of rounds without any type of failure. Just think about all the nose profiles, cartridge lengths and springs, etc.

I've only been on one guided hunt and the guide used a12 gauge with slugs. I asked him what slugs he's using? "regular slugs" I replied I shot a yearling buck with one of those and the slug was as flat as a pancake and it didn't pass through on a broad side shot. I had a 45-70 with 400 grains and big charge 3031 and a 44 snubbie.

[Rick R]

Possibly a better comparison would be between my 10mm SR1911 (40.4 oz) and my S&W .44 Mag Mountain Gun (41.5 oz) (weights off the Internet because I’m too lazy to get the guns out of the safe and scales out of the kitchen).

I know that I can accurately hit targets faster with the SR1911 and empty ten 10mm rounds faster than six .44 mid-range loads out of the revolver. Not “bear” loads but 250gr swc over 10.0gr of Unique, changing to the same bullet over a warm 2400 load slows me down a bit more.

My question would be is a 200gr 10mm WFN at 1,200fps enough to stop a big bear? I know it will go through six gallon jugs of water and hit an old soft body armor panel with enough energy to put a 2” hole in the 5 gallon bucket full of water holding up the panel with the backface deformation.

[justindad]

When the 9mm vs .45ACP debates come up regarding protection against two legged critters, stories inevitably come up about some perp taking 12GA slugs and surviving, while another guy killed two with a one round of .38 special. I imagine similar stories exist for bear. When it’s your turn to go, you will go to the place you have chosen.
*
What about the bears hopped up on PCP?

[HWooldridge]

When the 9mm vs .45ACP debates come up regarding protection against two legged critters, stories inevitably come up about some perp taking 12GA slugs and surviving, while another guy killed two with a one round of .38 special. I imagine similar stories exist for bear. When it’s your turn to go, you will go to the place you have chosen.
*
What about the bears hopped up on PCP?

Is PCP short for Por Cu Pine?

[murf205]

Just a little guy but sometimes you just need to look out the window.

299159

Not a little one
299162299276299277

Yep, just look out the window is right. Especially when they smell a 4th of July fish fry!

[454PB]

Here's pictures of a Montana game warden that killed a 500 pound Grizzly with a .357 magnum to save his own life:

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=fieldandstream

[Beerd]

Here's pictures of a Montana game warden that killed a 500 pound Grizzly with a .357 magnum to save his own life:

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=fieldandstream

yikes!
I remember the story, first time seeing the pics.
..

[sixshot]

That's why it's called hunting! Just watched "Tracks Across Africa" again last night, can't stop watching a certain episode. A guy shoots a Cape Buffalo with a "fatal" shot at 24 yds with a 450 gr bullet from a 416 rifle, then shoots it again with another "fatal" shot that blows that heart in half, it still charges & he shoots it in the face at 3 feet, yikes! And he falls over to the side as the Cape Buffalo blasts past him & flips his buddy way up in the air & the PH shoots it twice with 2 "fatal" shots from his 470 double rifle & the bull keeps running another 25-30 yds before piling up!
They looked down on me for hunting with a Ruger 45 revolver in Africa & even more so for using cast bullets over there. I shot Nyala, Zebra, Cape Buffalo, Kudu & Gemsbuck, 5 animals with 6 shots.... go figure.
Dick

[charlie b]

A perfect explanation of why the caliber of gun matters less than the conditions.

A charging animal is not the same as a stationary or 'bluffing' one. The second case a body shot of any type is probably enough to defuse the situation. A charging animal may take many 'fatal' wounds and still keep coming.

A CNS shot will stop just about any animal, but, the target area is small and a charging animal makes it even harder to hit.

PCP is nothing compared to massive amounts of adrenaline.

[murf205]

That's why it's called hunting! Just watched "Tracks Across Africa" again last night, can't stop watching a certain episode. A guy shoots a Cape Buffalo with a "fatal" shot at 24 yds with a 450 gr bullet from a 416 rifle, then shoots it again with another "fatal" shot that blows that heart in half, it still charges & he shoots it in the face at 3 feet, yikes! And he falls over to the side as the Cape Buffalo blasts past him & flips his buddy way up in the air & the PH shoots it twice with 2 "fatal" shots from his 470 double rifle & the bull keeps running another 25-30 yds before piling up!
They looked down on me for hunting with a Ruger 45 revolver in Africa & even more so for using cast bullets over there. I shot Nyala, Zebra, Cape Buffalo, Kudu & Gemsbuck, 5 animals with 6 shots.... go figure.
Dick

Dick, which one took the extra shot?

[rbuck351]

Hunting an animal that doesn't know you are there is a lot different than trying to protect yourself from a charging bear that has just burst out of the bushes 5 yds away and doing about 30 mph. You will be lucky to get one shot no matter the gun.

[memtb]

A perfect explanation of why the caliber of gun matters less than the conditions.

A charging animal is not the same as a stationary or 'bluffing' one. The second case a body shot of any type is probably enough to defuse the situation. A charging animal may take many 'fatal' wounds and still keep coming.

A CNS shot will stop just about any animal, but, the target area is small and a charging animal makes it even harder to hit.

PCP is nothing compared to massive amounts of adrenaline.


Hence the reason for my “signature line”! There is no such thing as “overkill” with a conventional cartridge in a conventional shoulder fired long gun, or a conventional handgun! JMHO memtb

[memtb]

Hunting an animal that doesn't know you are there is a lot different than trying to protect yourself from a charging bear that has just burst out of the bushes 5 yds away and doing about 30 mph. You will be lucky to get one shot no matter the gun.


“C’mon man”…..you know that you can empty the magazine and with “adequate training” reload another mag! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[pmer]

And besides most bears nowadays will let you get into a good modified Weaver stance after you get your electronic site turned on before they charge anyways.

[Geezer in NH]

Real encounters that happened.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?441399-Update-of-Pistol-Defenses-Against-Bears-123-Cases-98-Effective

[thxmrgarand]

I moved to the 49th state 49 years ago, so I have been a resident of both the states that have no sales tax and no income tax. About 40 years ago my wife and I moved to a small town that sits at the mouth of a wide braided river, not uncommon here. There was a fellow who walked around town with great difficulty - painful to see him. I thought he had some terrible disease, late Parkinson's or something. I was told he was a brown bear victim. He had shot a moose up the river where it was a few miles across. When he returned for the second load of meat the moose had been covered with saplings and brush. He uncovered the meat and in the course of that he was badly mauled. One of the fellows that helped pack him out told me that about 12 guys went back in to pack out gear after getting the mauling victim headed to hospital. Everyone wore a handgun. They were taking a break, undoubtedly a smoke break at that time period, at a camp that sat above the river when they spotted a brown bear running towards them from hundreds of yards out into the braided river. When the bear hit about 100 yards everyone started shooting their handguns, probably lots of .357s and a few .44s at that point in time. Most had time to empty their guns twice. It was a time when everyone shot at just about everything all the time, which is how it was in the state I left and in this state when I arrived. The bear finally fell dead when it reached the bank and started up the bank to them. The fellow telling me the story was a long-time local law official, ambulance driver, and all-round hand. He said the bear may have had as many as 100 rounds in it when it expired. There was no way to determine if that bear had done the mauling. I do not intend this to add anything to the debate about 10 mms, .44s or anything else. However, I have seen some S&W 329s for sale that each had shot only 6 rounds. I carry a 29 that my brother gave me decades ago.

[murf205]

"However, I have seen some S&W 329s for sale that each had shot only 6 rounds. I carry a 29 that my brother gave me decades ago."

Reminds me of a time I had to go up to Nikiski and stopped by the bar(naturally) where the guy's were he-hawing me for taking a dip in the Kenai River with my 629 on and "cooking" it next to the stove to dry it out. A guy sitting next to me said he had a 329 but sold it after a cylinder full of 240 gr. He said he would rather take his chances with the bear!

[Edward]

YIKES!!!!/Ed

[Markwell]

Have travelled the West for many years and worked several seasons in a hunting camp in the Wyoming range. We've seen the big bears but never had a problem with them. Was always a big fan of S&W 29s (still have a 6.5" and two 5")loaded with 320gr. LBTs. However, as we've aged we've found managing the DA trigger at speed to be more difficult every year and putting more than one shot on target in a timely manner (recoil recovery) has gotten much more difficult. So we have switched to the 10mm. We know the 10mm is not a magnum ballistics wise but figure that 10mm 200gr hard cast flat points on target are better than .44 320s that don't hit or worse yet, don't get fired. Here in the Alleghenies we've only got black bears and our woods loafing handguns vary from .32 H&R Mags up to the 10mm; just depends on our mood.

[Three44s]

My dedicated protection is a Smith 629 Mountain Gun (44 Mag).

I will take the reliability, better bullets and increased power of it over fifteen rounds of lessor power from a 10 mm auto any day ..... particularly when bears do not slow walk at you!

But we live in a free country and you pack what you feel good with and I will do what I feel best at.

As far as the 329 Smith goes, I fired a 4” model with full house and I liked it!

In a “known” bear situation ...... I want a long gun in someone else’s hands three states away and I will read about it! .....

Next is a long gun in my hands. Barring that, my Ruger SRH in 480 Ruger feels better than the 44!

Three44s

[sixshot]

murf205, I've been away for a couple of days, had eye surgery, getting old! It was the first animal I shot, the Nyala & it was facing me straight on. My practice was to carry a 282 gr HP in the first chamber & back it up with a 308 gr. LBT solid in case I had to take a second shot at a bad angle, knowing that I would get complete or almost complete penetration from any angle.
The shot was straight down the middle & it was hit really hard & was just walking around in a tight circle on it's tip toes & the PH said to hit it again and I ran the 308 gr solid through it broadside, dropping it straight down.
Now I need to back up & admit that I shot every animal but the Zebra twice because that's what I was told to do, not that they needed it but because that's pretty much the way they do it over there. The Zebra went down so fast they weren't even sure where it was & it was dead when we walked up to it. The Cape Buffalo, I knocked down with a 325 gr cast that broke the shoulder broadside but missed the off side shoulder & it knocked it down on it's shoulder & it's nose. It stood back up but was really wobbly, ready to go down but again the PH said to hit it again & I ran a 308 gr solid through the ribs and the vitals & it hit the off side shoulder dropping it on all fours, & that's where the skinners found it. When I got back to Idaho that water quenched cast bullet still weighed 308 grs.
On the Kudu I used the high shoulder shot at 82 yds with a 282 gr HP & got an exit & it dropped straight down, I finished it off with a heart shot when we walked up. On the Gemsbok I used a 250 gr cast in the FA 41 magnum at 56 yds (I think) and again used the high shoulder shot to drop it on the spot, never took a step & the bullet exited. Finished it off with a heart shot. So, you can call it 5 for 6 or you can call it 5 animals with 9 shots.
https://i.imgur.com/sJ1LCrzh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LGGaMc3h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ktcjc1Nh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dwMxY4Hh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dADefemh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WfGikrYh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uNodLPbh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rLqWlZth.jpg
Dick

[rkcohen]

..i love the 10 v 44 argument!

.it's only slightly less entertaining than old men arguing over motor oil....

so in 1953 bella twin killed a world record (at that time) griz with a 22 lr. https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bella-twin-the-22-used-to-take-the-1953-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz7RrLCEaWf

does that make the 22 rf a viable big bear choice? i mean the kel-tec pmr30 holds 30 rounds of 22 mag - so put the two togetrher - a world record on a rimfire and a mag capacity of 30 - bingo! we have a winner!!

most likely - what you shoot best - is the best for you - and there in lies the rub.

most folks simply don't shoot that much anymore, even when i go to a tree stand with my 308 (or fill in the blank) i have a backup handgun - a gun that here in the virginia/north carolina area doesn't have to be a whole lot simply because we don't have to worry about being charged by crazed bison or ravenous brown bears..

if i were walking thru the woods in the great state of alaska - i'd probably have my little 4" redhawk in 45 colt - because i can shoot that as well or better than some flyweight 44 that is all but uncontrollable.

but that's what works for me.

for others, heck, it just might be that 30 round kel-tec, who knows......

[725]

:) .22 long. Gotta love the spirit of an old Cree woman.

[memtb]

:) .22 long. Gotta love the spirit of an old Cree woman.

When it’s all ya got…..you do the best you can!

However, there is zero reason for anyone with a few active active brain cells and a little money to make poor decisions of this magnitude! I would hope that anyone of us would choose a slightly better cartridge! memtb

[pmer]

She knew what she was doing and I'd guess it wasn't the first bear she shot in the side of the head. You can drop 200 lb feeder pigs in a similar way but its from the top of the head with pigs.

Nerves of steel though, I'd have no problem doing what she says.

[murf205]

sixshot, well done indeed. I hate to hijack this thread so I will PM.

[Three44s]

She knew what she was doing and I'd guess it wasn't the first bear she shot in the side of the head. You can drop 200 lb feeder pigs in a similar way but its from the top of the head with pigs.

Nerves of steel though, I'd have no problem doing what she says.

Well, that’s the trick!

At the last second, just jump to the side and stuff a twenty two slug in the side of a charging bear.

Best regards

Three44s

[MT Gianni]

I am still wondering if their next comparison is going to be a Kia and an F350.

[jonp]

IDK but a big bear is not something I'd rely on a handgun for. That said, I'll take more 10mm rounds loaded as hot as the gun will take so I can empty everything and pray. Pull the trigger faster more times and hope for the best.

[Radarsonwheels]

My only experience with bears is reading all of Elmer Keith’s books about guiding grizzly hunts. He definitely had plenty of experience. The most memorable story was a large sow that his customer gutshot, which was tearing it’s own loops of spilling guts in a 35mph attempt to kill the poor marksman Keith was protecting.

The takeaway from all his writing at least for me was that in the case of big angry bears the only reasonable option is to score devastating hits to it’s skeleton with full house hardcast. I would be seriously considering the S&W 500 unless I had miles & miles to lug it, with a 6” 44 a close second!

[Three44s]

If you can lug a S&W 500 then more power to ya!

At some point though a handgun that nearly out weighs a small framed larger bore levergun or sufficient shotgun is more advisable IMO.

My largest handgun is a Ruger SRH in 480. It’s definitely much more portable compared to a full size 500 Smith!

Three44s

[sixshot]

Used a Ruger SRH to take my Idaho bull moose, my Dentist buddy used my custom Alan Harton 480 bisley to take an even bigger Idaho bull moose. Two moose with 2 shots & 4 holes, 2 in & 2 out! No bear is going to stop a good 480 bullet from any angle.

Dick

[Three44s]

Used a Ruger SRH to take my Idaho bull moose, my Dentist buddy used my custom Alan Harton 480 bisley to take an even bigger Idaho bull moose. Two moose with 2 shots & 4 holes, 2 in & 2 out! No bear is going to stop a good 480 bullet from any angle.

Dick

Yes, my molds both throw almost an ounce of lead per cavity. At 1100 or 1200 FPS you ain’t gonna stop them babies easily!

Three44s

[Messy bear]

Still like Dicks Africa story. It’s good stuff
I have seen and been in on lots of bison killing. Just did a couple this last week. I can tell you that 22 in right place is effective if they don’t get too old. But seeing many that didn’t go down in corral as well as hunting situations has left me with a very strong conviction that bigger is always better. For instance when the brain is missed, the larger calibers will sometimes still put them down. Have a few skulls that tell that story. Then in the hunting senerio the bigger stuff always wins

[Messy bear]

In fact in hunting situations it seems no sane caliber can “knock” one down unless it’s hit in cns. That includes many 458 and even a few 505’s. You just can’t knock em off their feet without a cns

[Messy bear]

Having said all this I still see the thought process about shooting something easier to manage. Cause if you don’t practice and get familiar with firearm, well we all know the outcome of that.
So always bring a gun to the fight cause it’s better than a knife or fists

[ironhead7544]

Probably best to carry both. The 10mm in a chest holster and a snubby big bore on your belt. IF you get a chance to use the 10mm and it fails, you can use the snubby to push against the bear on top of you.

That is why the Ruger Alaskan was designed. Last resort.

JMHO.

[Tripplebeards]

And the S&W 329NG

[Idaho45guy]

Read the OP and had a pretty fair guess what 90% of the posts would be like. I was not disappointed.

I'll stick with my 10mms, two of which were used in the test.

[thadfz]

And this is why I don’t spend my money on pop culture gun rags anymore…[emoji2357][emoji2369]

Wow, a 329 is what a “hunter” gets to carry?? Give me a break Snow… [emoji107]


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[Idaho45guy]

And this is why I don’t spend my money on pop culture gun rags anymore…[emoji2357][emoji2369]

Wow, a 329 is what a “hunter” gets to carry?? Give me a break Snow… [emoji107]


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Yep. Stupid choice for the .44 Magnum to compare. Should have used a 4" or 5.5" Redhawk or 2.5" Alaskan.

[sixshot]

Good discussion without a lot of nonsense! I've always been a revolver guy & a big revolver with big, heavy bullets doesn't need to be abusive to give you lots of penetration & controlability. I also have a Kimber Eclipse 10mm & it is a very nice gun & with a 200 gr WFN bullet that I make it would be very comforting in bear country with a mag full & one in the pipe.
The problem I've always wondered about after being in on many, many bears is, how anyone would get off very many shots with anything if a bear charged at close quarters because they are so dang fast! We've never been charged but we've been extremely close to a lot of bears & it can be a little nerve wracking sometimes.
This is our 26th or 27th bear, all spot & stalk, taken by my 14 year old grandson 3 days ago. His younger brother missed one in a bad wind. It's a nice big boar with a large head & great fur!
https://i.imgur.com/TCmS3CAh.jpg
Dick

[Tripplebeards]

I have to say I really like my S&W 329NG. I can drill pop cans pretty quick at 30 yards with it. I can tell you getting off a quick second shot isn’t going to happen if needed. It takes a second or two to recover from the recoil with full throttle loads. I put a little over 600 rounds through it in a week last summer. About 250 or a little more in each session. Just make sure to wear gloves or you’ll have bleeding knuckles from the trigger guard biting them.

Here my NG next to my my anaconda

https://i.imgur.com/rIx3mp8.jpg

I picked up a glock 20 a few weeks ago. It’s a tac driver right out of the box! I can tell you I would have 3 or 4 rounds in a bear’s kisser with the Glock 20 before I’d get a 2nd shot of with the 329NG.

[white eagle]

Hey Dick whats that white stuff?
Rite now, where I am, it's 85° with 66% humidity
why get the bear madder at you by shooting it in the kisser
I've carried a Dan Wesson Razorback in Idaho as a back up on a elk hunt
only because I didn't have a 44 mag at the time

[sixshot]

White Eagle, we've been getting snow about every other day right here at my house! One day I see lots of Rock Chucks & the next day they are down all day snoozing!
Grandson Porter made a great shot on that bear at 302 yds, one shot. His 12 yr old brother Branson had chances at 2 other bears before they had to leave but the winds were really bad up high & his dad thought the shot was too risky, Branson didn't think so......... one bear was at 310 yds & the other was about 350 yds, my son said both were bigger than the bear in the photo, a Cinnamon phase & a big chocolate phase bear.
Dick