Casting for hunting with the 8mm's

[4575wcf]

Hey all
I just added an 8 x 54 Krag Jorgensen to the battery. I built the cartridge on an M'91 Argentine Mauser that I have had for over 40 years. This is a Scandinavian moose cartridge derived by the Norwegians circa 1900's. They were looking to get a bit more wallop on moose from the standard service rifle, the Norwegian 6.5 x 55 Krag Jorgensen. By necking the 6.5 x 55 to 8mm with no other changes they arrived at an 8mm cartridge that would work through the standard Krag action, requiring only a new barrel. The Swedish also picked it up, reboring the '94 and '96 Swedish Mausers to 8mm. I first read about the cartridge in Barnes' "Cartridges of the World", and became interested in it then. I thought it might make a great cast bullet hunting gun because it seems to have most of the things you need. Saeco/Reddings 190 grain 8mm bullet cast in hard shot drops from the mold at about 194 grains with the check and lube, and 28 grains of IMR 3031 drives it at about 1690 fps from the 24" barrel. The neck is somewhat longer than the 8 x 57, but the powder capacity is very close to the 8 x 57 because of the slightly larger dimensions of the 6.5 case compared to the rest of the Mauser family of cartridges. The cartridge finishes up a bit shorter, the perfect length and pressure for the pre '98 Mausers. Starting at the 30.0 grain charge suggested for the 8 x 57, the load started shooting at about 28.0 grains and produced a 3 shot group approaching 1 inch at 50 yards, generating an estimated 30,000 psi. I took the gun on an impromptu wild pig hunt last weekend and shot a 200 lb sow running at about 40 yards. I slipped the bullet through the ribs, blew up the heart, and broke a rib on exit. More shooting and more hunting is in order; I am just getting reacquainted with the old '91 in the new caliber. I like the performance so far!

[pworley1]

It sounds like you are on to something good there.

[4575wcf]

I've been a black powder shooter for a long time, and I have toyed with black powder cartridge rifles some. This is my first foray into hunting with cast bullets in the small bore smokeless sizes. The 8 x 54, loaded with bullets cast in hard lead shot and quenched into cold water quits shooting at 1700 fps. Judging by the performance on the wild pig, I would say the bullets are performing more like a solid than a hunting soft nose. I have an idea to try modifying Lee's 205 grain mold to accept a fired .22 LR case as a hollow point, with the bullet cast around it and the rim holding it in. I am pretty sure the accuracy falls off when the velocity overcomes the plastic strength of the bullet noses, at about 1700 fps, and the resulting brass tube might help prevent that allowing more velocity. Surely someone has tried this?

[Beerd]

sounds like your bullets are too hard.
try adding some "pure" lead to your alloy and air cooling instead of water quenching.

search here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?22-Hunting-with-CB-s for opinions on hollow point bullets.

..
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[4575wcf]

Wouldn't an increase in bullet softness require a decrease in velocity as well? I don't seem to be getting leading to speak of, a nice ring of melted lube on the barrel crown indicates the lube is doing its thing. The gun is shooting pretty hard, if anything I wish to drive them faster, getting as close to the 8mm 196 Norma jacketed bullet performance as possible. I know a bigger bore, less velocity and softer lead would be a better game load overall, but I am looking to extend effective range.

[wilecoyote]

I have an idea to try modifying Lee's 205 grain mold to accept a fired .22 LR case as a hollow point, with the bullet cast around it and the rim holding it in.

...I just have one of these molds. in this case, I would be very interested to learn how_
thanks in advance !

[Beerd]

Wouldn't an increase in bullet softness require a decrease in velocity as well? ..........................

A common misconception.
Slug your barrel, size your bullets .002" over groove diameter.
A gas checked bullet cast from 50% wheel weight 50% soft lead can easily reach 2,000 ft/sec or more.


.......................... I am looking to extend effective range.

what is your goal with this rifle?
..

[4575wcf]

Well the cartridge was developed to increase performance over the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser for shooting the Scandinavian moose with the same rifles. The goal is to make it as close to the effective performance as the original 8 x 54 Norma 196 gr. load from the '40s within the limitations of cast projectiles.

[4575wcf]

...I just have one of these molds. in this case, I would be very interested to learn how_
thanks in advance !

Seems the Lee 205 grain bullet is designed for the M95 Austrian Straight Pull M30 cartridge 8 x 56R, and sports a diameter of .329. That is a LOT to size so perhaps another similar mold would work better. I think the idea has merit, and I think I have a way figured to pull the mold conversion off.

[Landy88]

You can size that much, for your .329 205 grain, by filling the lube grooves first then using a push through sizing die. The lube protects the grooves and lubricates the bullet and die.

Your 8x54 reads like an excellent cast cartridge and an equally good fit for those early actions that are best with moderated pressures.

[sharps4590]

Tom at Accurate makes the best 8mm hunting bullet I've seen and used.

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=32-205B

Dispense with the hollow point.

[725]

Your cartridge sounds like winner. Keep us up on your hunting adventures.

[hc18flyer]

Tom at Accurate makes the best 8mm hunting bullet I've seen and used.

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=32-205B

Dispense with the hollow point.

I like this bullet in my 8mm Yugo M48. I cast of 50/ 50 and don't push it past 1850 fps. My shots are usually inside of 125 yards. hc18flyer

[4575wcf]

I am beginning to think the fast twist of my surplus '93 Mauser barrel, 1 turn in 240mm, or around 1 turn in 9.45 inches, is working against me. As surely as the forces of acceleration from zero to 1700 fps in 24 inches travel is trying to squash the bullet nose out of concentric, the higher rotational speed imparted must be causing increased centrifugal force to do the same thing. I think a fellow needs to think about possible ways to stiffen up the plastic limits of the bullet nose. I have looked over Accurate's 205 grain 8mm offering, that DOES look like a heck of a bullet design. The flat nose would definitely be more likely to upset concentric to the bore than Saeco's round nose would when things begin to let go and deform, and the extra weight would add more punch at the same velocities.