Green dot powder for 10mm?

[Tripplebeards]

Just getting started on looking through my powder for 10mm. Picked up a glock 20 and Hornady die set the other day. I have a buddy sending me a bunch of 180 grain words he doesn’t want. I have 8 pounds of unopened green dot and would really like to find a use for it. Anyone try green dot powder in 10mm? If so can some direct me to the load data?

[megasupermagnum]

For whatever strange reason, data has never been developed with Green dot in 10mm auto. I can't explain why, but it should work just fine. There is data for 40 S&W, and I'd use that as a starting point. An old Alliant manual shows a max load of 5.3 gr Green Dot, with a 180gr JHP at 1.125" OAL. If I put that into Quickloads, in 10mm auto, you should be safe to 6.2 grains Green dot at 1.250" OAL, but I'd look in that 5.3-6 grain range for accuracy.

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks for the info! Do you have the starting charge for the 40 S&W in case I want to load up some for plinking in my 20?

[hoodat]

I've never loaded 40 S&W, but I've used Green Dot for durned near everything I've loaded for with great success. Certainly all my pistols. Also wimpy cast bullet loads in my smaller rifle cartridges. It sits between Red Dot and Unique for both burn speed, and charge weights on the trusty old Hercules Powder guide that I've used for years. The 40's hadn't been invented back in those days, but Green Dot was listed for every cartridge on the chart. jd

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks for the info! Do you have the starting charge for the 40 S&W in case I want to load up some for plinking in my 20?

It's only listed as 5.3 grains. It was implied in the old manuals that starting loads were 10% less than listed max. In this case, 4.8 grains.

[T-Bird]

My friend loads 250gr 45 colt with it. Apparently it's versatile in pistols.

[Shuz]

Green Dot is an excellent powder for use in the. 44 mag with boolits from 200 to 255g. Start with 6g and work up to 9g.
Absolute favorite is 8.6g and 429421hp at 235g. Velocity is 1050fps in 5" bbl.

[Tripplebeards]

Turkey hunting finally got over a few weeks ago that was consuming all my free time. I took my pistol with me today while brush hogging a food plot on my property. I shot a couple dozen AMEC red boolits I loaded up with 5.8 grains of green dot. No leading, cycled perfectly, and hit water bottles every time at 20 yards. It must be a pretty wimpy load because the brass landed anywhere from 3’ to 5’…or closer to me vs 15’ from factory loads. The recoil felt like, or lighter, than my Ruger P85 mark11 9mm. I loaded a ladder test from suggested minimum to a max 6.2 grains in .2 grain increments with green dot and will have to group test them later this week.

[MT Gianni]

I have never used green dot in the 10 or 40 but find slower powders give me much better results. Power Pistol, 800, AA9, and Herco.

[remy3424]

What was the intent for the Green Dot when you purchased 8 pounds of it! I have less than 2 pounds I should find a use for, left over from years ago loading 20 gauge trap loads. If it does work decent in a 10, it might be a good excuse to get the Delta Elite out.

[Tripplebeards]

Got the powder basically for free. Just was trying to find a use for it. About the only powder besides a half pound of HS6 I have that works for 10mm. Gotta use what I have since all my LGS have nothing for powder in stock as usual.

[stubshaft]

I have never used Green Dot in a 10mm because I don't own one. I have used a lot of it in my 45 LC, 44 Mag and 40 S&W. I have found the burn rate to be similar to AA #5.

[P Flados]

FYI, when I ran the 6.2 for a 180 in a 10mm through Quickload, it showed well under SAAMI max pressure.

And then I calculated that you will only get a mere 9032 rounds of ammo at that charge from 8 lbs of powder. Even if you load with "free" cast projectiles, the $0.10 per primer will cost you quite a bit just to use that powder.

[Tripplebeards]

FYI, when I ran the 6.2 for a 180 in a 10mm through Quickload, it showed well under SAAMI max pressure.

And then I calculated that you will only get a mere 9032 rounds of ammo at that charge from 8 lbs of powder. Even if you load with "free" cast projectiles, the $0.10 per primer will cost you quite a bit just to use that powder.


Can you post the quicksand data you ran please?

[P Flados]

Can you post the quicksand data you ran please?

First off, I would not push Green Dot too hard in the 10mm. If you are looking for more power, use a better powder (Power pistol, AA#5, AA#7, AA#9, Lovex D037.2/Heavy Pistol seem best, Herco, 2400, HS-6, Longshot and Unique are all better than Green Dot). I will run the numbers out past where I would stop. However, this just for your info, not because I would ever try them (unless it was in an Encore or something similar).

Also note that the estimated performance in the first table is based on a seating depth of 0.350". Other 180 gr bullets I looked had different seating depth for the same AOL. The 10mm is not a big case, and changes in load density (a.k.a. fill %) can make a big difference.



Cartridge : 10 mm Auto (SAAMI)
Bullet : .400, 180, Speer HP GD 4406
Useable Case Capaci: 14.274 grain H2O = 0.927 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.250 inch = 31.75 mm
Barrel Length : 4.6 inch = 116.8 mm
Powder : Alliant GREEN DOT

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-30.3 63 4.60 897 322 18654 3058 100.0 0.672
-27.3 65 4.80 923 340 20183 3166 100.0 0.645
-24.2 68 5.00 948 359 21777 3275 100.0 0.621
-21.2 71 5.20 972 378 23436 3383 100.0 0.599
-18.2 74 5.40 996 396 25162 3490 100.0 0.579
-15.2 76 5.60 1019 415 26956 3597 100.0 0.560
-12.1 79 5.80 1042 434 28819 3704 100.0 0.542
-09.1 82 6.00 1065 453 30752 3810 100.0 0.526
-06.1 84 6.20 1087 472 32758 3916 100.0 0.511 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 87 6.40 1109 491 34837 4021 100.0 0.496 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 90 6.60 1130 510 36992 4126 100.0 0.483 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 93 6.80 1151 530 39224 4230 100.0 0.470 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 90 6.60 1144 523 41324 4062 100.0 0.464 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 90 6.60 1110 492 32357 4217 100.0 0.509 ! Near Maximum !


To show the seating depth difference, I also ran a 1/8" shorter AOL (0.475" seating depth).



Cartridge : 10 mm Auto (SAAMI)
Bullet : .400, 180, Speer HP GD 4406
Useable Case Capaci: 10.301 grain H2O = 0.669 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.125 inch = 28.58 mm
Barrel Length : 4.6 inch = 116.8 mm
Powder : Alliant GREEN DOT


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-30.3 87 4.60 969 375 27751 2791 100.0 0.571
-27.3 91 4.80 996 397 30233 2886 100.0 0.549
-24.2 94 5.00 1023 418 32848 2981 100.0 0.529 ! Near Maximum !
-21.2 98 5.20 1049 439 35602 3075 100.0 0.511 ! Near Maximum !
-18.2 102 5.40 1074 461 38500 3168 100.0 0.493 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-15.2 106 5.60 1099 483 41548 3261 100.0 0.478 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.1 110 5.80 1123 504 44751 3353 100.0 0.463 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Tripplebeards]

I loaded in .2 grain increments to try up to 6.2 grains. After testing if I show no pressure signs I'll try 6.4. I have mine loaded longer than 1.25". Think I'm closer to 1.35" to 1. 38" or more for OAL.

[P Flados]

An OAL of 1.35" only gives a seating depth of 0.25" for the selected bullet. My bet is that your bullet is longer than the 0.610" Speer GD.

And FYI, QL gives the max pressure as 37500 psi.

I ran the 1.35":



Cartridge : 10 mm Auto (SAAMI)
Bullet : .400, 180, Speer HP GD 4406
Useable Case Capaci: 17.452 grain H2O = 1.133 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.350 inch = 34.29 mm
Barrel Length : 4.6 inch = 116.8 mm
Powder : Alliant GREEN DOT

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-06.1 69 6.20 1032 426 25470 4146 100.0 0.565
-03.0 71 6.40 1053 443 27001 4260 100.0 0.549
+00.0 74 6.60 1074 461 28580 4373 100.0 0.534
+03.0 76 6.80 1094 478 30207 4487 100.0 0.520
+06.1 78 7.00 1114 496 31882 4600 100.0 0.507 ! Near Maximum !
+09.1 80 7.20 1133 513 33607 4712 100.0 0.494 ! Near Maximum !
+12.1 82 7.40 1153 531 35381 4824 100.0 0.482 ! Near Maximum !
+15.2 85 7.60 1172 549 37207 4935 100.0 0.471 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 74 6.60 1089 474 31863 4306 100.0 0.510
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 74 6.60 1052 442 25067 4469 100.0 0.567

[Kosh75287]

I STILL think I'd look for something else to use. Green Dot IS well-behaved, but every propellant has limits to its docility. I find myself asking how many 8# kegs of Unique, Herco, or Blue Dot can be bought for the cost of replacing a 10mm pistol.

[kerplode]

I checked Alliant 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, Lyman 47, 49, 50, Cast 4, Speer 15, Hornady 10, and the revised Lee 2nd. None show Green Dot loads for 10mm. Proceed carefully.


I find myself asking how many 8# kegs of Unique, Herco, or Blue Dot can be bought for the cost of replacing a 10mm pistol.
Probably 3 or 4. In the grand scheme of things, though, handguns are cheap. It's fingers and eyes that are expensive.

[P Flados]

Flake powders with a burn rate of Unique or faster are about a safe as you are going to find. Pretty much the only risk is a gross overload. Since these powders tend to be bulky, double charges are less likely than for other powders.

Actually, if it were my gun I would find the lowest charge that reliably cycles the action including lock back. Then I would probably increase the charge by 0.2 grs and call it good.

Again, if true max power is desired, there are better choices. But for bulk shooting, max power is really not needed and something like Green Dot should do an excellent job for lower power bulk shooting ammo.

I use a lot of Promo (bulk equivalent to Red Dot) for a similar function.

[Tripplebeards]

Then 5.8 grains is probably perfect. It cycles Perfectly and the brass drops anywhere from right at my feet to maybe 5 feet away max. The average brass casing drops probably 2 to 3 feet in back of me versus factory ammo that gets launched a good 15 feet into the right and rear. Like I stated earlier it recoils like my P85 MK11 9mm. It’s a very tame load that cycles. At least I can find my brass easily with this load. I think it would be impossible to do a double charge on it as the case would be overflowing. The powder is pretty bulky.

[kerplode]

Awesome...Sounds like it's working well!

[Tripplebeards]

Just casted up a bunch of .402 170 group buy hollow points. They weigh around 160 grains average with 16/1 alloy. Any green dot load data help for the lighter 160 grain boolits?


I did try 6 grains of green dot with the .401 AMECs today. Tried three 5 shot groups and and checked for leading every group. No leading observered. Five shot group at 15 yards...

https://i.imgur.com/xjMMUd1.jpeg

I have had alot of trigger time behind this pist or caliber yet. Maybe a box or so of ammo through it so far. I also shot some of the AMECs my buddy sent loaded. He must have crimped them to hard because after I tried five of his loads they leaded the heck out of the barrel! I'll be pulling the rest. I checked after every 5 rounds of my .401 AMEC loads and had no leading today. Luckily shooters.choice and chore boy removed all the leading in about 20 brush strokes.

Never leaded a barrel before...

304488

https://i.imgur.com/rn86gki.jpg

I'm a little paranoid now after the leading. I did slug my barrel today. My slug was ah where from .399 to .400.5 I had one reading of..401. So I am debating on polishing my lee .401 sizer die to .402 when it gets here tomorrow.

[Tripplebeards]

Nobody chimed in yet so I have about a quarter pound of unique laying around that was given to me. The bullets average weight are just under 162 grains PCd so I'm going with 165 grain load data and going to try seven grains and unique. Load data in Lyman 50th was 6.5 to 7.3 grains.