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atl5029
04-11-2022, 02:49 PM
Hi All,

I've been MIA for quite a while, but back with a new potential cast application and questions.

I've been following the development of the new 8.6 Blackout round coming out this year and am very excited for it and am planning a build. If you have no idea what I am talking about, 8.6 is to 308 what 300 Blk is to 223. Like 300 Blk, it is built for both supersonic and subsonic loads. Supersonic bullet weights are in the 160-225 range for this cartridge, and while there are plenty of great hunting bullets out there, there are virtually no 338 target bullets out there in this weight range, just 250 and 300, which are used in subsonic loadings. This brings me to the possibility of making up some cast boolits for affordable practice rounds.

The problem comes in the standard twist for this round, which is 1:3. Yes, you read that correctly. Yes, that is faster than just about anything out there. Yes, it is required for what the cartridge is designed to do - sub MOA with 300 grain subsonic loads out to range, extreme terminal performance on game with supersonic loads from short barrels.

My obvious concern and question is whether a cast boolit is even capable of being shot out of such a fast twist barrel without coming apart or extreme leading. One thing the cartridge does have going for it, like the 300 Blk, is that in supersonic it is not extremely fast. 2000-2500 FPS depending on bullet weight.

My thoughts are since this is a target boolit, to cast something very hard, powder coat, and gas check it in order to (hopefully) properly engrave on the rifling without just shearing the bearing surface of the boolit off. Once it leaves he muzzle, it'll be doing extreme RPMs. I would think a well made CB, being all one material, would hold together under even extreme RPMs.

I may also run this same CB in my 338 RCM with a 1:6.5 twist. The twist is not as extreme, but it'll be going significantly faster.

To those who may have any insight into this, what are your thoughts? I know some people run 1:5 300 Blk barrels. Any advice on creating a CB up to my requirements for 8.6?

Winger Ed.
04-11-2022, 02:58 PM
I'd think a 1:3 would lead to severe Leading above a few hundred fps even with a hard alloy.
However; check into casting with Zinc. That might get ya where you want to go.
For the same cast boolit, it weighs about 60% as much as Lead, but can be pushed up to jacketed speeds without a gas check.

Zinc is in the future of casting. I've already recovered a couple of them at our rifle range.

atl5029
04-11-2022, 03:29 PM
I'd think a 1:3 would lead to severe Leading above a few hundred fps even with a hard alloy.
However; check into casting with Zinc. That might get ya where you want to go.
For the same cast boolit, it weighs about 60% as much as Lead, but can be pushed up to jacketed speeds without a gas check.

Zinc is in the future of casting. I've already recovered a couple of them at our rifle range.

That is interesting. There are so many articles out there on how to keep Zinc out of your lead mixture, but now its also got its own casting application. That might be what the doctor ordered because I can find a lot of molds out there for heavier boolits that'll get me the weights i need. Any threads or articles on casting with Zinc you can point me to?

Now the obvious follow up question to that is where do you find a supply of scrap zinc?

Bloodman14
04-11-2022, 04:34 PM
Zinc wheelweights are everywhere. Check your local metal scrapyard. I have several ingots of zinc for other experiments that I haven't gotten to.

Ford SD
04-11-2022, 07:32 PM
338 cal
what can you compare it to
Mid length action 250- 300 g

Sounds a bit like a 358 winchester a great cast rifle round
125g to 3000 fps
250g @2000-2200 fps
1/12 twist barrel

lots of data out there for 358 win ..... and you can convert cases for it :)

cwtebay
04-11-2022, 10:04 PM
There was a discussion about this a while back. My conclusion is that either WOW hard BHN or powder coating at very moderate speeds would be the way to go with that caliber / rifling.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Winger Ed.
04-11-2022, 10:52 PM
Any threads or articles on casting with Zinc you can point me to?



Put 'casting Zinc bullets' and/or 'Casting Zinc boolits' into any search engine and youtube.

When the dozens of articles, threads, and videos pop up, have a sandwich and something to drink handy----
you'll be there awhile.

atl5029
04-22-2022, 12:07 AM
338 cal
what can you compare it to
Mid length action 250- 300 g

Sounds a bit like a 358 winchester a great cast rifle round
125g to 3000 fps
250g @2000-2200 fps
1/12 twist barrel

lots of data out there for 358 win ..... and you can convert cases for it :)

I have a 358 and its one of my favorite rifles, but 8.6 is a totally different beast.

centershot
04-22-2022, 11:37 AM
For lead alloy bullets a 1:3 twist will be a disaster. Read the post by Larry Gibson regarding the RPM Threshold. At 1000 fps, your bullet will be turning 240,000 RPM, that's double the recommended MAXIMUM RPM.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?208186-RPM-Threshold-barrel-twist-velocity-chart

Bullet RPM = MV X 720/Twist Rate (in inches)

For a zinker, that might work! You won't know until you try it.

Harter66
04-22-2022, 01:19 PM
Nothing to do with this and yet .......
I played with the Mtn Molds design tool a lot often and among other things I found that a 220 gr 7 mm in a 1-8.5 was a really long bullet and not even close to running out of twist . In a 1-9.5 it maxed out about 250 gr , that bullet was almost 2" long .

A member here did some testing with an adjustable 45 cal mould and a 1-16 .457 barrel , 45-70 I think , he continued to have stable bullets beyond 750 gr but stopped because the testing wasn't a whole lot of fun anymore . I want to say he took it to 900 gr , a better man than me .

1-14" is more than enough for 300 gr in 35 cal . 1-16" is enough for a 200 gr RN in a 38 Special .

I can't imagine what 4 turns per foot will stabilize in .338 . 500 maybe 600 gr ?

Willie T
04-24-2022, 12:52 PM
The way I roll, I would look at molds for target bullets I wanted to cast and shoot. Use a gyroscopic bullet stability calculator to determine the twist to analyze compatibility with cast Bullets. Bullet length dictates twist. You may have to make some concessions regarding bullet selection. Then I would build the rifle around the bullet I plan to shoot. Sounds like a cool project.
Willie