AA #5 in a .357 Mag. with 160 gr. cast

[Jim22]

After having a discussion with another member here I hve decided to load up some ammo for my 3" barrel Ruger SP101. I have moulds for the Lee 158 grain plain base and their similar gas check boolit. At the velocities I am expecting I don't think the gas check is necessary so I am starting with the plain bevel base. It casts out at about 160 grains depending on alloy. I figure either COWW alloy which I have a bunch of or Lyman #2 from online.

Many of the .357 loads that are stompers use slower powders like 2400, AA#9, etc. Looking over my stash of powder for a suitable short barrel load I come up with AA #5. Dick Lee lists it with the 158 grain cast boolit, starting at 8.0 grains with 9.0 grains as max.

298598

Has anyone tried this combination?

Jim

[gwpercle]

Loading 357 magnum with 160 gr. cast boolits & AA #5 powder :

Wadcutter - NOE 360-160-WC PB (lyman 358432)
Semi-Wadcutter - NOE 360-160-SWC

First was trying for a +P 38 special load in 357 magnum cases .
Tried both boolits with 6.0 grs, AA #5 to start ... too low , not enough pressure to burn cleanly , so it was not an accurate load .

Next , increased load to 7.5 grains AA #5 . Much better , cleaner burning and better accuracy .

I suspect the starting load of 8.0 grains of AA #5 will be just the ticket to completely clean burning and accurate load .

I was also looking for something to stand in for Unique ...it dissapears at times , AA #5 looks promising but my results indicate it is just a tad slower than Unique ... which will be good in heavy / magnum type loads .

Still haven't found anything to replace my old standby - Unique but I will keep looking .
Universal might be good but I haven't located any ... lately .
You just got to make do with what you can get !
AA #5 just might be close to nearly standing in for Unique , it sure does meter and dip easier than flaky Unique ... I charge a lot with powder dippers and AA # 2 & #5 work real well in that aspect !
Gary

[Jim22]

Thank You, Gary.

Jim

[T-Bird]

I shoot 8gr #5 and Lee 158 rnfp sized .359 for my go to load in .357. I have 2 revolvers and 2 leverguns and all shoot it well. When I was getting started with "all this", for me, I got better accuracy, metering, and cleaner shooting from #5 than unique. I use it in .357, .44mag, 45colt for most of my needs. I have strayed to Lil gun, and H110 some for more robust loads but I'm not sure it was necessary.

[gwpercle]

I shoot 8gr #5 and Lee 158 rnfp sized .359 for my go to load in .357. I have 2 revolvers and 2 leverguns and all shoot it well. When I was getting started with "all this", for me, I got better accuracy, metering, and cleaner shooting from #5 than unique. I use it in .357, .44mag, 45colt for most of my needs. I have strayed to Lil gun, and H110 some for more robust loads but I'm not sure it was necessary.

:goodpost: LIKE

Will have to give 8.0 grs. AA #5 / 160 gr. WC & SWC a good try ...
sounds like it will be a winner .

Thanks T-Bird
Gary

[Jim22]

Do either of you know what velocities to expect from a short barrel?

Jim

[racepres]

Never went over 158 in boolit weight, but plenty of those at 8.0 gr.. Higher with 150's of course..
My Notes indicate it was "good" but, H110 was "better", and In My Virginian Dragoon (7-1/2 Bbbl) Blue Dot was best... YMMV
But, even in a 4" bbl, (Dan Wesson/High Standard PorkChop) H110 generally comes out on top..
FWIW, I recall stopping load development with #5 due to finding it Superior in the 32H&R Magnum.. so that is where it gets used!!

[T-Bird]

From my notes, 5 shots ranged from 1075-1096 fps from a 6" 686. I got 1250-1350fps from a 20" 1873, I didn't record the no of shots.. Both were in warm weather (80ish).

[Jim22]

So, I loaded up some test ammo. Three each of six loads. From 8.0 to 9.0 grains AA #5 in 0.2 grain increments. CCI small pistol primers. I used the Lee bevel base boolit cast from COWW, unsized and powder coated. A Lee factory crimp into the crimp groove. I really like that Lee crimp die. After seating the boolits, before crimp, the rounds were a bit reluctant to chamber but after the crimp they chambered like factory loads. Maybe it is the collet sleeve that rides with the boolit when crimping. It ironed out all the dents in the brass from grease grooves and lands. New Starline brass.

The result was that there were no signs of excessive pressure. Cases extracted easily, no flattened primers. I will say the little SP101 is a handful with full loads. I am glad I got the longer 3" barrel.

The load data was originally published on Accurate Arms' website. Lee apparently just copied it into his book. I don't think I need to exceed 9.0 grains. May settle on a bit less - maybe 8.5. I want to chronograph the load - just so I know.

Jim

[T-Bird]

The way I look at it, if you're shooting a 3" barrel, you ain't shooting that far. I don't think that a few fps one way or the other is gonna matter. I'd go for accuracy. But, I admit I would want to know the velocity too, but I just like to measure stuff.

[gwpercle]

Jim ... Be sure to post chrono results and group sizes with your loads .
I don't have a chrono or access to one . My Ruger BH has a 6 1/2" bbl .
My notes show my 160 gr. WC & SWC loads with 5.5 grs AA#5 was nothing to write home about , left unburned powder ... the pressure was too low but 6.0 grs AA#5 were better , cleaner burning and 10 shot 1 1/2 groups at 25 yards were nice .

In my world a hit at 800 fps beats a miss at 1200 fps any day of the week and twice on Sunday .
Gary

[T-Bird]

I agree ^^^

[racepres]

Jim ... Be sure to post chrono results and group sizes with your loads .
I don't have a chrono or access to one . My Ruger BH has a 6 1/2" bbl .
My notes show my 160 gr. WC & SWC loads with 5.5 grs AA#5 was nothing to write home about , left unburned powder ... the pressure was too low but 6.0 grs AA#5 were better , cleaner burning and 10 shot 1 1/2 groups at 25 yards were nice .

In my world a hit at 800 fps beats a miss at 1200 fps any day of the week and twice on Sunday .
Gary

Chrono showed 1036 fps avg, out of a 7-1/2 inch Virginian Dragoon... with a 155 SWC over 7.8 gr of AA#5 FWIW I would not hesitate to Start at 7.5 with 158-160 LSWC Your load seems a bit heavy from what I see in the old Paper Accurate reloading Guide... But... If it is working!!!! cool

[Jim22]

Chrono showed 1036 fps avg, out of a 7-1/2 inch Virginian Dragoon... with a 155 SWC over 7.8 gr of AA#5 FWIW I would not hesitate to Start at 7.5 with 158-160 LSWC Your load seems a bit heavy from what I see in the old Paper Accurate reloading Guide... But... If it is working!!!! cool

Hi, thanks for your input. The data I got was from Accurate Arms website. https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center

Here is some data I snipped from there:

298890

Click to enlarge.

Interestingly they list higher maximum loads for jacketed bullets than for cast. I did load about thirty rounds yesterday using 8.5 grains AA#5. I changed the boolit a bit. I used the same Lee bevel based boolit but sized to .358 and lubed with Carnauba Red instead of powder coated and unsized. If it warms up this afternoon I will get out the chronograph. It's currently 32 degrees with a 10 mph wind.

Jim

[racepres]

Hi, thanks for your input. The data I got was from Accurate Arms website. https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center

Here is some data I snipped from there:

298890

Click to enlarge.

Interestingly they list higher maximum loads for jacketed bullets than for cast. I did load about thirty rounds yesterday using 8.5 grains AA#5. I changed the boolit a bit. I used the same Lee bevel based boolit but sized to .358 and lubed with Carnauba Red instead of powder coated and unsized. If it warms up this afternoon I will get out the chronograph. It's currently 32 degrees with a 10 mph wind.

Jim

Interesting.. I was quoting the old Complimentary Guide... from when Accurate was in TN.. But... they claimed a Maximum with 158 Jkt at 8.6 gr.
The LSWC, maxed at 8.2... but, again, this is old Data, and I still have the powder from that date!!!! Certainly early '90's!!!!

[Jim22]

OK, it finally warmed up a few degrees and the breeze dropped off so I went out and set up the chronograph. It's a new one from Caldwell. I fired five rounds of the reloads and also five rounds of PMC 158 grain JHP. The PMC ammo beat out the reloads in velocity - but not by much. The five rounds of reloads with AA #5 produced an average velocity of 1024 fps. The PMC averaged 1163 for four rounds. One gave an error reading. The PMC produced an extreme spread of 21 fps. The handloads 166.

I also have an unopened box of 'Heavy '.357 ammo from Buffalo Bore. It's loaaded with 158 grain JHP and the box claims 1475 fps. I didn't try it but i will. I can't believe 1475 from 3" barrel.

Jim

[Jim22]

After thinking about it I am going to continue to work with AA#5 to see where max is for my revolver. I was interested in AA#5 because of the short barrel but if I can't get better velocities with it - and especially better extreme deviation - I will try AA #9. I have some of that and my powder burn rate sheet puts it about halfway between AA#7 and W296/H110. I also want to test both sized & lubed boolits versus powder coated.

We'll see.

Jim

[T-Bird]

They used mag primers with #5? I used sp standard.

[Jim22]

They used mag primers with #5? I used sp standard.

Yes, I am using standard as well.

Jim

[Jim22]

A little change. I must be getting old. I loaded up some ctgs. with AA#5 and went to get the can of AA#9 that i knew I had. I couldn't find it but I found a new pound of AA#7 so I went to Accurate Arms' website and got data for #7 . Loaded up enough for a chronograph test. I'll report back.

Jim

[Jim22]

OK, an hour with the chronograph revealed this. This time I used powder coated boolits because I had more of them:

AA#5: Velocity avg:
9.0 - 1021
9.2 - 1031
9.4 - 1036
9.6 - 1076
9.8 - 1073

AA#7
9.1 - 907
9.3 - 934
9.5 - 936
9.7 - 974
9.9 - 1007

None of the above loads were sticky to extract and none had flattened primers.

Then I chronographed a few Buffalo Bore Heavy .357 Magnum 158 grain JHP. They surprised me. I fired four rounds and got the same velocity three times. The load also has a lot more recoil. If I take one of the three duplicates and the other non duplicate and average them I get and avg of 1338 fps. The 3" barrel didn't achieve the advertised 1475 fps but 1338 is nothing to sneeze at. Very surprising to me. But the brass was sticky to extract. From what I have seen so far I should be able to go heavier than I have so far. I don't want sticky extraction. Actually, I am quite happy with the progress I have made so far with Accurate powders.

YMMV.

Jim

[Kosh75287]

9.2/AA#5/158 gr. FMJFP gave me 1197 f/s from a 4" Ruger Police Service Six, and 1253 f/s from a 6" S&W M28. I suspect that cast or PC'd projectiles would be launched faster.

[Jim22]

9.2/AA#5/158 gr. FMJFP gave me 1197 f/s from a 4" Ruger Police Service Six, and 1253 f/s from a 6" S&W M28. I suspect that cast or PC'd projectiles would be launched faster.

Thanks, Kosh. I would have thought so as well but my 3" SP101 doesn't quite do it. I'm gonna try above 9.8 grains AA#5 and some higher loads with AA#7. I don't know why but in my gun I am able to substantially exceed max loads from Accurate Arms. I wouldn't try them in lighter build revolvers. Maybe that's what AA was thinking when they called them Maximum. Seems to me I had similar findings when loading for my Ruger Redhawk .44. That gun would swallow loads that I couldn't put in the same room with my M29. Ruger builds tough guns.

Jim

[T-Bird]

Hey GW did you ever try the 8.0 gr #5 loads?

[bsev81]

I have been a fan of No. 5 for years but never tried it in 357 until now. Dad asked me about a medium power plinking load for range days.
I recently got the NOE HTC358-154-RF, got some powder coated and tried them in my 6.5" 686. CCI 500s with 9.0gr No. 5 averaged 1140fps which fits the bill for this purpose..
Next i'll have to see how the NOE HTC 173 mold does with it.