New to this Forum -- some questions

[No Plea]

Thanks in advance for your opinions and suggestions.

1. LBT firelapping method. Where can I find detailed instructions, sources of required materials, etc.? Thinking ahead -- waaay ahead -- I once corresponded with Veral Smith, but have managed to lose the literature he sent me oh so many years ago.

2. In a Ruger Bisley Vaquero, .45 Colt, two cylinder throats measure .453 (perfect) but four measure .451 to .4515. I want to open these up. Since I also want to firelap the bbl, as an experiment to see if I can end up with a slightly choked or tapered bore, I thought about firelapping the four small cylinder throats simultaneously, as well. Is this a valid idea?
[The bore slugs at .451 with no restrictions that I can tell. ]

3. What would you recommend as a better alternative?

4. What do y'all think about Taylor Throating?

5. Where can I find molds for or finished lead, hollow base wad cutters in .451 or .452? I like the .32 or .38 Speer type, but they are not made in .45.

Thanks again.

No Plea

[Thomas_K]

I have the same problem on my SW686 were all the throats are undersized. Have read alot of information and e-mailed Veral about his LBT Lapping kit. The recomendations i get from several sources are the same. Ream the throats to .001" over bore diameter. Firelap the bore with LBT kit. Detailed instructions follow the kit. If you have a kit and have lost the instructions, i'm shure they will send you a new copy. http://www.lbtmoulds.com/

I don't see how firelapping the cylinder throats would be a good idea. In my simple mind I'd think that the cylinder and bore would get the same treatment and therefore the relation between them would never change. And as i understand the process it does not remove very much material. So opening a throath from .451 to .453 would take a lot of lapping.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the board, No Plea!

Not a fire-lapper, but I did ream the throats on a Ruger 45 Colt a few years ago. Not a LOT of metal was removed (from .449" to .4525", then polished to .453"), but it was fairly strong hand-work with a piloted reamer. It seems to me that fire-lapping the throats would take a lot longer than what the bore would require for smoothing, and pose excessive wear on the bore.

[dragonrider]

Years ago I got a firelapping kit from LBT and it came with required instructions.

[AzShooter]

Order the fire lapping kit from Veral. It's easy. Take some old bullets and roll them in the lapping compound on a sheet of glass or on the aluminum bar Veral will send you. I made up 50 bullets with a very light load of 2.7 grains of bullseye to lap the barrel.

After 50 rounds I cleaned everything and then sent another push through slug down the barrel. Two things happend. The barrel was SMOOTH and it also increased in size.

I went from .360 to .365 in size. Since verything was smooth I didn't lap anymore.

To do the throats I used Veral's instructions. I made a rod to go in my drill press, put a slit in the rod so that I could put a pied of 320 sandpaper in the slot and placed it in the cylinders.

Make sure the paper is gight enough to go into the cylinder. Then run your press and lift hyour cylinder until you are working the throats. I let each throat be sanded for about 20 second, then measured the throats and re sanded as needed.

I opened all my throats to exactly .358.

http://photos.imageevent.com/azshooter/throattool/websize/DSC_2506.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/azshooter/throattool/websize/DSC_2510.jpg

My groups tightened up. Any questions and Veral is always open for information or cantact me and I'll try to help you through it.

[Scrounger]

Order the fire lapping kit from Veral. It's easy. Take some old bullets and roll them in the lapping compound on a sheet of glass or on the aluminum bar Veral will send you. I made up 50 bullets with a very light load of 2.7 grains of bullseye to lap the barrel.

After 50 rounds I cleaned everything and then sent another push through slug down the barrel. Two things happend. The barrel was SMOOTH and it also increased in size.

I went from .360 to .365 in size. Since verything was smooth I didn't lap anymore.

To do the throats I used Veral's instructions. I made a rod to go in my drill press, put a slit in the rod so that I could put a pied of 320 sandpaper in the slot and placed it in the cylinders.

Make sure the paper is gight enough to go into the cylinder. Then run your press and lift hyour cylinder until you are working the throats. I let each throat be sanded for about 20 second, then measured the throats and re sanded as needed.

I opened all my throats to exactly .358.


http://photos.imageevent.com/azshooter/throattool/websize/DSC_2506.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/azshooter/throattool/websize/DSC_2510.jpg

My groups tightened up. Any questions and Veral is always open for information or cantact me and I'll try to help you through it.

I think I 'd use a cordless screwdriver, given the short sanding times...

[Catshooter]

All though AZshooter ain't much fer typin' (:)) he told you a true and accurate story. Though he doesn't say, it sounds like he was dealing with either a .38 or a .357.

Definaltley use the drill press, not a hand held drill for honing as the drill press keeps the operation much straighter.


Cat

[Blammer]

scrounger are you recommending a Dremmel? LOL

Just pickin! :)

[AzShooter]

It was most definately a .357. My Smith 627

[Scrounger]

scrounger are you recommending a Dremmel? LOL

Just pickin! :)

No, I meant a simple cordless screwdriver, thinking the low speed would keep one from getting into too much trouble with it because of the low speed. Note someone of far greater skill and knowledge than I disagreed and said to use a drill press. I bow to his superior knowledge.

[Catshooter]

No, I meant a simple cordless screwdriver, thinking the low speed would keep one from getting into too much trouble with it because of the low speed. Note someone of far greater skill and knowledge than I disagreed and said to use a drill press. I bow to his superior knowledge.

"far greater skill and knowledge" Oh boy. Yea, just about the time I start thinking something like that I discover that I welded it on backwards.

Your thought of a screwdriver being slower and thus maybe staying out of trouble more is very valid. A drill press will keep it straighter though and that's trouble that is hard to fix. Most drill presses can turn pretty slowly and that is the best speed to use - slow.


Cat

[No Plea]

Thank y'all.
I think I'll do as y'all suggest. Open the throats with a drill press and sand or maybe if I can locate a proper reamer... maybe to .452.
And then fire lap.
And then see if the throats need another thousandth.
thanks again.
Best --

[Heavy lead]

Welcome to the board, No Plea!

Not a fire-lapper, but I did ream the throats on a Ruger 45 Colt a few years ago. Not a LOT of metal was removed (from .449" to .4525", then polished to .453"), but it was fairly strong hand-work with a piloted reamer. It seems to me that fire-lapping the throats would take a lot longer than what the bore would require for smoothing, and pose excessive wear on the bore.

+1 on this, the piloted reamer (I think Manson reamers) that Brownells sells is the ticket for this. A good investment if you have a lot of 45's.

[Bret4207]

I think I'd send the cylinder out to a shop to have all of them honed out to the same diameter. I've done the sandpaper opening of different things before and you can do some damage. If you're a competent mechanic, fine. If not, send it out.

On fire lapping- A little goes a long way. Someone mentioned firing 50 rounds before he measured, I'd fire maybe 1 cylinder full and then measure. You can't put back metal after you remove it.

[MT Gianni]

AZ Shooter, to verify this is not a typo you get good groups with a 0.358 throat and a 0.365 Bore?

[No Plea]

I am familiar (slightly) with The Cylindersmith. Any other shops y'all would particularly recommend for properly honing/polishing cylinder throats?
More thanks.

P.S.: Bret, you are so right in your advice that we stand up and fight hard for our rights. This current bunch includes some mean and zealous radicals, with whom rational discourse is not possible. Power and pressure are their currency and it's all they understand.