Am I too picky??

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

So I got this mold new from Midway, handed it to a buddy at work who runs a mill, and asked him to remove the gas check shank. Upon returning it to me (I never even looked at the mold), he let me know about extreme chatter in one of the cavities. Here’s a pic, and the response from Lee. I’m kind of disappointed, but then got to thinking, “Am I being too picky??”

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Here is my email to Lee:
“ Hi there! I purchased a 2 cavity mold, the 501-440 from Midway (if my memory serves me correctly) and the finish on one cavity has quite a bit of chatter. The finish in one cavity is excellent, but the other cavity is very rough. This roughness, of course, is very visible in the cast bullet. I will attach pictures so you can see the problem. I am a machinist and as soon as I got the mold Ihanded it to one of our mill operators and had them remove the gas check shank. I never even took it out of the box to look at it initially. When he brought it back he notified me of the finish in the one cavity. I tried casting with it and unfortunately the bullets are slightly out of round and don’t size all the way around. If I’ve voided the warranty by removing the gas check shank, I understand. I’ve made worse mistakes in life lol. Thank you for taking the time and advising!”



Here is the response I got from Lee:

“ Anthony,

You could return the mold, and we can mic the cavity, if it is under size we would replace it. Chatter on big bore tooling like that is typical, especially when the tooling is brand new. We have no guarantee on finish, but from photos it looks more than useable.

I am attaching a return form on this email. It has all the info you need to return it.

Thank You,

Kyle
Customer Service”

Needless to say, its going back because it is out of round and only about 2/3 of it sizes even after powder coating. But just curious what you guys (and gals) would do?

[country gent]

It wouldnt hurt to make a test run see how it does and go from there. If unacceptable you will have a couple samples to send back with it.

[Hamish]

You’re not being too picky, but it IS Lee,,,,,,

Shoot ‘em.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm looking at the pictures as close as I can, and I can barely see anything at all. You are talking about the cavity closest to the handles, correct? Unless the pictures don't show it, yes, you are being too picky.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

298296

The chatter is not superficial, it runs deep lol

You can really see how bad it is if you look at the loob groove

[imashooter2]

I’d be unhappy with the finish in that cavity.

I’d also be surprised if Lee does anything now that you’ve modified the mold.

[Lakehouse2012]

Send that back! If Miha shipped junk that that to people he wouldn't stay in business. Too bad that Lee finds that acceptable

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[rancher1913]

its a lee, if you want quality you need to expect to pay more than you pay for a lee. if you are not going to be doing bench rest competition, I would use it.

[tchepone]

Send it back. That's pretty poor workmanship even for a cheap moukd. I generally like Lee and have a lot of their equipment but I gave up on their molds long ago. I have gone to Accurate & NOE for not that much more money. You're not too picky.

[Tazman1602]

I don’t know, agreed I do see lube grooves not right but….and no offense, you took a company’s brand new mold and promptly modified it. IMHO I wouldn’t think Lee would even consider taking it back.

Like I said no offense….

Art

[ascast]

wow you bought it, had some other guy machine it, and now want to send it back to LEE for satisfaction ? Have I got that sequence right? I would ask you if you want Ranch or Blue cheese with that . harsh ...maybe, but you asked...

[megasupermagnum]

Again, it is hard to tell in a picture, but it just doesn't look that bad to me.

[Willie T]

I cast a lot of good Bullets with Lee molds and like them. I wouldn’t be satisfied with that. If I altered the mold I would eat it though.
Willie

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Yeah my email to Lee stated that I understand completely if I voided the warranty by removing the GC shank.

I’ve got a handful of NOE molds and use them for my high volume casting. Seems like a good time buy more for the stuff I don’t shoot a bunch of. Time to eliminate all the headaches.

[ScrapMetal]

I would have turned it back before modifying it, now you should probably eat it. I think that their explanation is pretty lame as well,

"You could return the mold, and we can mic the cavity, if it is under size we would replace it. Chatter on big bore tooling like that is typical, especially when the tooling is brand new. We have no guarantee on finish, but from photos it looks more than useable."

Chatter on sharp, brand new tooling? Only if you are running it improperly. "Useable?" Sure, I could carve out a "useable" slug with my pocket knife but it's not likey to make a good grouping. No, there is no excuse for putting out that kind of "quality" even at the cut rate price.

JMHO

-Ron

[6622729]

wow you bought it, had some other guy machine it, and now want to send it back to LEE for satisfaction ? Have I got that sequence right? I would ask you if you want Ranch or Blue cheese with that . harsh ...maybe, but you asked...

I agree. If you were unsatisfied with the mold, I think you forfeited your opportunity to return it once you started modifying it. The cavity is worse than I would have wanted but I think you own it now. It would be above and beyond to ask Lee to step in now. Good news is it’s just a $30 2 cavity mold.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I would have turned it back before modifying it, now you should probably eat it. I think that their explanation is pretty lame as well,

"You could return the mold, and we can mic the cavity, if it is under size we would replace it. Chatter on big bore tooling like that is typical, especially when the tooling is brand new. We have no guarantee on finish, but from photos it looks more than useable."

Chatter on sharp, brand new tooling? Only if you are running it improperly. "Useable?" Sure, I could carve out a "useable" slug with my pocket knife but it's not likey to make a good grouping. No, there is no excuse for putting out that kind of "quality" even at the cut rate price.

JMHO

-Ron

My thoughts EXACTLY. As a machinist myself, it’s my job to troubleshoot issues like chatter. But then again, they probably got a bunch of button pushers that don’t have a clue about machining, hence the $30 price tag. I’m gonna eat it. Lesson learned. Lol

[wwmartin]

Out of curiosity. What is the mold #. I have one of their 41 caliber molds that has chatter on the nose radius. Shoots as good as I can.
Bill

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

It’s their .501 mold. I wouldn’t be worried about chatter on the nose radius either. This is chatter all along the bearing surfaces that unfortunately doesn’t “size out” when pushed though a sizer.

[Land Owner]

IF you showed and told LEE Customer Service (CS) that you noticed the chatter AFTER you had their mold modified, and LEE CS in full knowledge agreed to take it back following the modification, THEN you're OK to send it back. Nothing wrong in asking, so long as in asking the truth is told.

I'm no Machinist. Still, I didn't like LEE CS's answer with regard to "new tool" chatter. It sounds kinda Used Car Saleman-ish...a "smarmy" CS answer for every fault.

You know how you presented the facts. You have the Return Form. As you decide, Go or No-Go for a return.

[Rickf1985]

The fact that it will not size out means that even if the chatter wasn't there the bullet would have the same problem, it would be too small. This is not an excuse but just an observation. What I do see here is the fact that you bought a mold from a company and remachined it and THEN told them it had a problem and even sent pictures of the MODIFIED mold and the company still offers to replace it!!!!! Say what you will about Lee but would NOE or any of the other high end companies do that for you? Not likely.

[gwpercle]

I have become disenchanted with Lyman over the years ...
and now it looks like Lee is headed down the same disenchantment path ... you can't expect people to use such obviously defective moulds ... Come on Man , who you all trying to fool .

Still enchanted with NOE . I can honestly say of the 7 NOE Moulds I have ordered over the last 7 years ... everyone is 100% delightfully made and user friendly .

ICH ,
Lee really needs to replace your Donkey-Wonkey mould with a decently made one ...
I don't know if they realize that we talk to each other ... but from what you have posted and Lee's lack of customer service ... I will be thinking twice about buying another Lee mould .

And NO ...you're Not being too picky ... Lee should have never let that mould leave the factory ... Mark It Defective !
Gary

[vernm]

Since you don't shoot this bullet much, why not just cast with the good cavity. Use it as a single cavity mould.

[waksupi]

I have become disenchanted with Lyman over the years ...
and now it looks like Lee is headed down the same disenchantment path ... you can't expect people to use such obviously defective moulds ... Come on Man , who you all trying to fool .

Still enchanted with NOE . I can honestly say of the 7 NOE Moulds I have ordered over the last 7 years ... everyone is 100% delightfully made and user friendly .

ICH ,
Lee really needs to replace your Donkey-Wonkey mould with a decently made one ...
I don't know if they realize that we talk to each other ... but from what you have posted and Lee's lack of customer service ... I will be thinking twice about buying another Lee mould .

And NO ...you're Not being too picky ... Lee should have never let that mould leave the factory ... Mark It Defective !
Gary

That is why we lost the Lyman advertising on this forum. They found out we would call them on poor quality, rather than just being fan boys.

[El Bibliotecario]

To answer your original question: Yes.

[MaLar]

I have a six cavity Lee mold . Some of the cavities have some chatter and it shoots fine. If it was a rifle mold I think I would have sent it back.

[Hanzy4200]

I wouldn't worry about it. There's no way it's going to effect accuracy or function. If it was a $120 custom mold like a Accurate or MP, I'd be irritated. Not from a Lee.

[HWooldridge]

I am the Quality Manager for a large (200 employee) production machine shop.

That would be a reject condition for us, i.e., we would not have sent it out to a customer - but Lee is correct in stating it's not unusual for a new tool to chatter until it breaks in a bit. However, good toolmakers will buff/break the cutting edges to reduce the likelihood of occurrence.

I believe you will absolutely see that in a cast bullet - and likely be unhappy with the appearance.

[Smoke4320]

I would send it back and hope for the best. worse is you are out another $8.50 in postage . best is you get a much better mold in return

[15meter]

The good thing is if you do send it back, it won't come back out as a factory second or as an overstock.

Do I believe Lee would do that?

In a heartbeat.

[farmbif]

I'm a sucker for the lee closeout section, ive gotten a couple at 1/2 price that dont look very good but the they shoot pretty good for what they are. if the out of round problem is not corrected when lube sizing that is a real problem.

[MarkP]

I have a NOE 311 247 FN both cavities have rings on the bore ride section. I never said anything I know when I first opened the box I wasn't real thrilled to see the rings. They shoot fine see pics below:

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Rings on as cast are not as visible in the pictures as they are with naked eye in natural light

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[Kimber1911]

its a lee, if you want quality you need to expect to pay more than you pay for a lee. if you are not going to be doing bench rest competition, I would use it.

dingdingding

[David2011]

I have a NOE 311 247 FN both cavities have rings on the bore ride section. I never said anything I know when I first opened the box I wasn't real thrilled to see the rings. They shoot fine see pics below:

Rings on as cast are not as visible in the pictures as they are with naked eye in natural light



Mark, it looks like you’re not getting good fillout. Are you using straight wheel weights? Maybe the alloy needs a little tin added. My boolits pick up every machining mark in the molds.

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t think chatter should be acceptable. However, I have Lyman mold that came with a gun I bought. It had terrible chatter marks on what makes the driving bands. The boolits look like crap. They seem to shoot ok, but I don’t like the way the boolits look. I tried to lap it out with a boolit and grinding compound, but only ended up with a really shiny boolit. It was a steel mold. If your’s is aluminum the technique might work for you. My mold was a single cavity. With a double cavity you would need to lap them both equally so the boolits end up the same.

[MarkP]

Mark, it looks like you’re not getting good fillout. Are you using straight wheel weights? Maybe the alloy needs a little tin added. My boolits pick up every machining mark in the molds.

It is the picture and flash..... the rings are very visible and can easily feel with fingernail. These were cast with reclaimed shot mixed with Lino.