45/70 Dacron filler, yea or nay?

[scattershot]

I am loading some new to me loads in 45/70, which consist of a 405 grain boolit and 10 grains of 700X. Should I use a filler , or not? I have tried it before with other 45/70 loads, and couldn’t tell much difference. Lotta empty space in the case with this load.

Thanks,

[Larry Gibson]

Not with that powder, empty space or not.

[cwtebay]

Not with that powder, empty space or not.Larry - would you mind expounding on your response? You always seem to have a good explanation.

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[405grain]

Small charges of fast burning double based powders and pistol powders in a straight walled case like a 45-70 should be easy to ignite, and should (ideally) be relatively position insensitive. a filler with such loads should not be required. In the 45-70 I've only had to use a card wad & filler if I was using charges of slow burning rifle powders that wouldn't fill the case completely. after much experimentation with the RCBS 405 grain in this caliber I found that I was getting my best loads with Reloader #7.

[mehavey]

In the 45-70 I've only had to use a card wad & filler ...You were using a card wad...?

[scattershot]

Thanks, guys.

[414gates]

Avoid the could and should.

Is the load in the Lyman cast bullet guide?

My preference for reduced loads is less of the normal powder, and dacron to take up the space.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry - would you mind expounding on your response? You always seem to have a good explanation.

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If that charge of 700X is generating sufficient psi to burn efficiently then the filler probably wouldn't improve anything as, apparently, you've found out. With such faster burning powders [I use a lot of Bullseye, Red Dot and 700X in such loads in various straight walled cases] I work up to where the powder is igniting and burning efficiently.

Pressure builds fast with 700X under a bullet that heavy in the 45-70. I generally switch to a slower burning powder with bullets over 300 gr in the 45-70. With 400+ gr bullets I use 2400, 4759, 4227 or a similar burning powder. With those powders and a 400+ gr bullet I use a filler for trapdoor level (1000 - 1400 fps) loads.

It has been reported by a couple members here that the faster burning powders under normal weight cast bullets in the 45-70 can "ring" a chamber.

[405grain]

"You were using a card wad...?"
mehavey: Perhaps that's not the correct term, but it's what I've always heard it called. It's just a disc of card stock cut out with a 7/16" gasket punch. It's usually placed between the powder charge and a filler to keep them separate. A cream of wheat (cow) filler is NOT recommended in a bottleneck cartridge, but is OK in a straight walled cartridge like a 45-70. Upon firing the cream of wheat will compress to about the consistency of particleboard. (not a good thing to try to squeeze through a case neck). A card disc in between the powder and "cow' filler keeps them from mixing. Another way that I've heard of, and used, is to sandwich a thin disc of bullet lube in between two card disc's and place this between a plain based boolit and a full or slightly compressed powder charge. I've heard this called a "grease wad". Though I'm not positive, I believe I might have heard this terminology from Phil Sharpe's reloading handbook. I don't usually load cartridges like these examples, but will try experimenting in the quest for that ever elusive tighter group.

[scattershot]

Maybe I misspoke when I said “filler”. What I was asking about is a tuft of Dacron to keep the powder next to the primer.

[Larry Gibson]

Maybe I misspoke when I said “filler”. What I was asking about is a tuft of Dacron to keep the powder next to the primer.

That is a "wad" and I do not recommend nor use a wad with any load.

[sharps4590]

Half the reduced loads I shoot in my old rifles use an open cell foam filler; Unique, IMR-4198, 4227, Reloder 7 and both 4895's. However, I've never used 700X so have to plead ignorant of how it would react to a filler.

[414gates]

Maybe I misspoke when I said “filler”. What I was asking about is a tuft of Dacron to keep the powder next to the primer.

I use polyester hollow fiber material, found in pillows and cushions.

I put it directly over the powder column.

It is useful to weigh the material before putting it in the case. One grain of dacron / polyester hollow fiber is usually enough to expand to fill a quarter of a 45-70 case.

There is no need to pack the dacron in tight, it does not need to have the consistency of a wad at all. You need just enough to displace the air and keep the powder near the flash hole.

I've never loaded any rifle cartridge with a pistol powder for reduced or cast loads, and I always use the filler if the powder level is too far below the shoulder for my liking.

[cwtebay]

If that charge of 700X is generating sufficient psi to burn efficiently then the filler probably wouldn't improve anything as, apparently, you've found out. With such faster burning powders [I use a lot of Bullseye, Red Dot and 700X in such loads in various straight walled cases] I work up to where the powder is igniting and burning efficiently.

Pressure builds fast with 700X under a bullet that heavy in the 45-70. I generally switch to a slower burning powder with bullets over 300 gr in the 45-70. With 400+ gr bullets I use 2400, 4759, 4227 or a similar burning powder. With those powders and a 400+ gr bullet I use a filler for trapdoor level (1000 - 1400 fps) loads.

It has been reported by a couple members here that the faster burning powders under normal weight cast bullets in the 45-70 can "ring" a chamber.'preciate that response. Exactly what I was asking for.

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[robg]

i use a quater sheet of toilet paper to hold powder against primer in my 45-70.