158 grain LRN 9MM Loads

[RVM45]

I've just ordered a pair of S&W 5906s. Never owned or loaded for 9mm before.

I plan to go with the 147 grain JHPs for serious use; but I'd like to load up some loads using .38 Special 158 grain LRNs for practice loads.

I remember "Combat Handuns" had an article about loading 9mms with the 158 grain LRNs. (I think for subsonic loads; way back before they had factory subsonics.)

That's been 25 or 30 years ago. That particular magazine has long since gone down the river of time...

Does anybody have any load data?

Thanks.

.....RVM45 8-)

[MtGun44]

I think your main problem is likely to be that the 9mm brass thickens
fairly rapidly and you will likely have the rear portion of the boolit into
the 'non-neck' portion of the case, either bulging the case or sizing
the base of the boolit down to a diameter less than the normal size.

Of course, you have very little remaining combustion chamber volume and
this dramatically increases pressures - so I'd sure start VERY low and
work up slowly. Reduce data for lead 147s if you can find it by at least
15% and creep back. You may not have room for very much powder and
still fit in the mag.

Bill

[MT Gianni]

John Taffin had an article in which he mentioned using the RCBS 150 K in his 9's. I think for the 9's you are best off with 115 or 125 for any social situation from 'coons to coyotes. The FBI load didn't last for a reaason.

[Mack Heath]

Since you're not getting the info you requested, I will offer one load that I have used. As you already know, you are in no man's land with that weight bullet.

The bullet I used was the Lyman 358477, which is a 150 SWC fairly comparable to the RCBS 150-SWC. Given the square nose profile, you can easily get another 8 grians of bullet weight without causing problems.

I got to the load I used by running QuickLoad and looking for something that was low enough pressure, so that even if QL underpredicted the pressure by as much as 20%, I would still be in safe territory.

The seating depth for the 358477 is 0.384" and the OAL was 1.040", so there was still of lot of length available. This is important when switching to a 158 RN because it will likely require a much longer OAL. The max allowable OAL for the 9mm Luger is 1.169".

I used Power Pistol since I wanted one of the slower powders suitable for 9mm. I based the powder choice on the Lyman Pistol & Revolver 3rd Ed. list of powders for the 147 grain bullet. I based my starting and max loads on the pressure levels that Lyman used in the above manual.

The starting load was 3.0 grains of PP and the predicted pressure was 22.4 KSI. The max load was 3.3 grains of PP with a pressure of 29.4 KSI. As you can see you don't have much room within which to work when you use a bullet that heavy. However, that 29.4 KSI is still well below the SAAMI allowable +P pressure of 38.5 KSI. As I said earlier, I wanted to give myrself enough room in the pressures just in case QL missed the pressure predictions.

I used the 3.0 load and they worked just fine in my gun with one exception. Some 9mm barrels have very short leades and don't like bullets with parallel sides sticking out of the case very far. With the RN you mentioned, that may or may not be a problem depending on bullet design. I had one barrel that would not chamber these rounds with the SWC bullet. Also, the diameter of your chamber may not be sufficient to handle the diameter of the loaded rounds. vYou may have to spec the sized diameter as 0.356 instead of the more common 0.357 or 0.358 inches.

What you need to do is pick the bullet you want to work with and get the dimensions off it. You will need the OD, the overall length of the bullet and the seating depth you will use. Make up some dummy rounds to see if your gun will feed and chamber the loaded rounds and get the OAL for the assembled cartridge. With that info, it is possible to run QL to come up with a couple of powders that might work for you.

[AzShooter]

I shot about 60K of 158 grain lead bullets through my Glock when I was shooting Major 9 many ears ago.

I also found the 158s felt much lighter at minor velocity and shot them for years. Hopefully you have a chronograph.

Power Pistol worked ok but produced more pressure than I wanted. AA 9 worked good for Major power loads. Bullseye was fantastic for light loads. I don't remember the charge but start low and work up. 3 grains should be a pleasant load for the 158s.

[oso]

My old Hodgdon Data Manual #23 lists 4.8 gr HS6 and 3.3 gr HP38 for 160gr lead bullet in 9mm.
My Lee 356-153-2R and Lyman 356637 both drop a ww boolit at 156 gr which I seat out to col 1.166" for the Lee and 1.13" for the Lyman.

[RVM45]

Thanks guys. That will get me started.

.....RVM45 :cool:

[fecmech]

In this months American Rifleman Fiocchi is advertising 158 gr FMJ 9MM ammo at 940 fps.

The Lyman # 45 Manual listed load data for the 358311 158 gr cast for the 9MM. Max loads for Bullseye were 3.5 @961, unique 4.5@1039fps and Herco 4.6 grs @1010 fps. Not recommending, just for your info.

I have loaded the H&G #39 (a 158gr rn) in my 9MM Hipower over the following loads.
2.5 gs of Bullseye= 814 fps
2.8 grs BE =892 fps
3.3 Hogdon Longshot =823 fps
4.0 " " " " =926 fps

The Longshot loads were very accurate and none of the loads I used showed any indications of high pressures in MY GUN! YMMV. BTW I've found Hogdon Longshot to be one of the most accurate powders for cast in the 9mm from 121's thru 147's and the 158.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've loaded a few thousand 158gr LRNs in 9mm for a suppressed Uzi. Load was 3.3grs of Red Dot. Worked perfect and gave 100% reliable function with the heavy blow-back operation bolt, too.

[Ammo Guy]

I've loaded a few thousand 158gr LRNs in 9mm for a suppressed Uzi. Load was 3.3grs of Red Dot. Worked perfect and gave 100% reliable function with the heavy blow-back operation bolt, too.

I "acquired" a hundred 158 grain, .354 dia FMJ projectiles a while back. Anyone got load data for these in 9x19. Think the 3.3gr of Red Dot would work?
Thank you for your time.
Aim small, miss small.

[tazman]

The Lyman 44th edition handbook is available for download in a few places online. It has data for a 158 grain boolit in 9mm using red dot.
The listing is 3.0 -3.6 grains of Red Dot. No data on OAL.
Not certain if the powder has changed over the years since that manual was published.
Your 3.3 grain load is right in the middle of the range that is listed.
I have no personal experience with that powder/boolit combination.

[ioon44]

I am using Alliant Sport Pistol for 160 gr 9mm, the Alliant loading manual list the charge at 3.1 gr of Sport Pistol, I found I could less and still make power factor.

[lotech]

I've experimented with many cast bullets in the 9mm for more than thirty years. The best I've found to date has been the obsolete Lyman round nose .38 Special design #358212. Weighs about 150 grains in ww alloy and I size to .358". Most accurate cast bullet I've found and functions reliably in a Beretta, Sig, and a Walther. I use Bullseye, but HS-6 works fairly well, just not as accurate as Bullseye.

[scattershot]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the OAL for a 158RN in the 9mm?

[Larry Gibson]

I plan to go with the 147 grain JHPs for serious use;

Years ago, back in the early '70s, I had a Browning HP, 2 M39s and a M59. I also had an Oehler chronograph back then. With cast I tried 158 RNs, 158 SWCs and 150 SWCs found basically I got 38 SPL performance out of the 4" barrel no better than +P loads out of my 4" M15 38 SPL revolver. Frankly, 38 SPL equivalent loads was not what I was looking for then and even after the Miami/Dade County shoot out.

I went back to 115 JHPs (XTPs or Gold Dots) at 1300+ fps (Browning HP and my current CZ75) loaded over Herco "for personal use". I use the 120 Lee TC cast bullet for practice loaded over 4 gr Bullseye. Both loads are also much easier on the alloy frames.

[onelight]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the OAL for a 158RN in the 9mm?

Depends on the 158rn and the gun/mag it's going in.

[scattershot]

I understand that. Just looking for a number.

[mnewcomb59]

I like 2.9 gr Titegroup and have used up to 4.4 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf at 1.07".

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-heavy-bullets-in-9mm-luger/99514

[Minerat]

I "acquired" a hundred 158 grain, .354 dia FMJ projectiles a while back. Anyone got load data for these in 9x19. Think the 3.3gr of Red Dot would work?

Lyman 45 lists for the 358311 RN
Bullseye 3.0 to 3.5 gr @ 869-961 fps
Unique 3.5 to 4.5 @ 883-1093fps
Herco 3.6 to4.6 @ 840-1010

Max oal 1.169"

Have not tried any of these YET!

[Bigslug]

If somebody has a copy of Sixguns by Keith handy, he talks about this is vague terms, relating how some of his chronies had loaded the hollowpoint version of his SWC in 9mm.

One infers that this is the 358429, which, hollowpointed, works out to about 160 grains. Load specs were mentioned.

[onelight]

If somebody has a copy of Sixguns by Keith handy, he talks about this is vague terms, relating how some of his chronies had loaded the hollowpoint version of his SWC in 9mm.

One infers that this is the 358429, which, hollowpointed, works out to about 160 grains. Load specs were mentioned.
I experimented with the 358429 they weighed 168 grains in 9mm many years ago it functioned and shot reasonably well in a beretta 92
But it was more out of curiosity than any real purpose I could not see any advantage over more traditional weight bullets like 124 gr . I was never very comfortable putting that much bullet in that little case . I worked with both bullseye and Unique if I remember right.

[JimB..]

In this months American Rifleman Fiocchi is advertising 158 gr FMJ 9MM ammo at 940 fps.


Didn’t see the ad, but probably Fiocchi 9APE which is a great suppressed round. They only make it seasonally, I understand that the bullets are made in Italy then loaded in the US, but point is that it is not always available.

[Bigslug]

I experimented with the 358429 they weighed 168 grains in 9mm many years ago it functioned and shot reasonably well in a beretta 92
But it was more out of curiosity than any real purpose I could not see any advantage over more traditional weight bullets like 124 gr . I was never very comfortable putting that much bullet in that little case . I worked with both bullseye and Unique if I remember right.

I'm in the camp of "I don't know but I've been told" on this one, but a couple things occurred to me on the topic:

1. The 358429, being designed for big powder charges in a .38 Special case, moves a lot of its weight forward into the nose outside of the case. That might make it a better choice than a lot of other 158 grainers that were designed for the longer .357 case, and put more metal in the shank out of necessity.

2. The long nose of that bullet might possibly mimic the profile of military FMJ.

3. With the nose scooped out by a hollow point mold, the nominally 173 grain 358429 drops to about 160 grains. The net effect of loading this in the 9mm is that in 1955, they had something that duplicated the .38 Special "FBI Load" 15-20 years before the "FBI Load" was really a thing.

[GBertolet]

I had used the Lyman 358311 158 gr RN in my 1911 9mm for USPSA shooting. It shot quite well, but I had some of the issues mentioned earlier to resolve. The bullet has a long bearing surface, so it had to be seated fairly deep, which conflicted with the tapered case. My solution was to invert the bullet in the Lyman sizer, and use a top punch to put a bevel on the base. I used a #460 top punch, which had the correct profile for what I wanted. It was enough to work. I was fortunate my barrel had a generous throat, so I could leave them seated a little long, and still would chamber. I sized to .357. Lyman in one of their older manuals, has load data for the 9mm, with the 358311 bullet. Of course it hasn't any of the newer powders listed.

[edwin41]

hello ,

i shot some 1000 subsonic reloads through my glock G34 , and these were storebought 140 gr ALSA PRO fmj j-word boolits .
the load i was using was 3.2 gr of Lovex d032 powder.

the interesting part for me was the overall length of the cartridge .
in the reload guide from lovex the overall lenght of the more common bullet weights is from 28,2 to 29 ,9 millimeter.
the overall lenght for the heavy boolits are listed at 26,5 mm .

so , the heavy boolits are longer than the lighter ones , and will be seated much deeper in the casing , leaving little room for the powder.

i started out by removing the barrel and seated the boolits as far out as the chambering would allow , but then the cartridges wouldn t
fit in the magazine no more , so i backed up a little to 29,5 mm .
this gave poor results with the listed 3.2 gr of d032 powder and the pistol wouldnt cycle the action.
i did increase the powdercharge a little , but de results were not there.

it all started to work when i seated the boolit deeper , to the overall lenght of the listed 26,5 mm.
the reload guide gives me a minimum charge of 3.1 gr and a max charge of 3.2 gr d 032 powder for a subsonic load.
at 3.1 gr the pistol does not cycle reliably , but i never had a problem with the 3.2 gr of powder.

as printed in the guide from lovex :
SUBSONIC , overall lenght 26,5 millimeter
powder lovex d032 , j-word 140 gr minimum 3.1 gr 918 fps
maximum 3.2 gr 984 fps pressure 2310 bar / 33500 psi

i also did the same powdercharge and oal with alliant bullseye powder , and it felt no different than the lovex d032.
for the .38 spec i also use both the powders in the same amount with in my opinion the same performance.

i recently found me a nice brass bulletmould , with gives me a roundnose 147 gr boolit .
i casted some and got these coated with the hitek coating , wich seems to me to be the best coating in the market today.
i havent mastered the process completjy i think , but its defenitly not the product or the back up from the maker , i just need some more
experience with this coating.
anyway , i loaded a batch of 35 of these boolits for testing , 3.2 gr of d032 powder , oal 26,5 mm
will report the results , but the gunclubs are closed over here as the new virus is hitting hard , and its advised to stay away from groups of people right now.

[root]

I haven't loaded the 158's but I do use the 150 38 bullet mold for my 9mm subguns and cans.

I just size them in the 450 and like others mention load them to fit the mag and barrel and go with 157 data backed down a bit.


I use the M10 and UZI as bench marks if it runs in those then it will run in the glocks and M11/9

Never seen any pressure signs and with the UZI and M10 the empties land right at my feet only coming out of the breech about 2 to 3 inches.