Big Horn 89

[snowwolfe]

Ordered one yesterday. Options include fancy walnut stock and scout scope pictatinny rail, 500 S&W.
Was told it would be a 14 month wait :sad:

I look forward to smacking a deer with a 450-500 grain 50 caliber slug

[veeman]

And whatever is behind it for a good long distance! :D Congrates!

[Shawlerbrook]

Beautiful beasts of a levergun. If I were ever going after the big bears or something hard to kill in Africa I think I would go that way.

[doulos]

I look forward to your range reports in the future.

[missionary5155]

I was at the site and looked at the base price. Add the wait time and I have no regrets buying a repro 86 (jap) locally and having JES rebore and chamber it to 50 Alaskan. Took only 2 months and total cost under $1100.

[todd9.3x57]

i would like Bighorn in 500 Linebaugh. i have a TC Encore in 500L on a 23" MGM barrel and it shoots great. i was going to with 50 Alaska, but i didn't feel the velocity was needed on deer.

[missionary5155]

We shoot our 50 AK at any speed from 500 fps with a round ball up to T-rex thwapers.
The issue is why have to wait 14 Months and spend that much. But hey that is why we have Freedom.

[snowwolfe]

We shoot our 50 AK at any speed from 500 fps with a round ball up to T-rex thwapers.
The issue is why have to wait 14 Months and spend that much. But hey that is why we have Freedom.

Kind of a childish argument. Same reason a lot of people drive around in newer and nicer vehicles that cost a lot more than a used beater. Or why buy a Freedom Arms when Ruger costs less?

Add in the fact I like trying something new, already own a bunch of 500 S&W brass, reloading dies, and roughly 1,500 assorted bullets and it makes sense for my wallet.

[missionary5155]

I recon I am "project orientated" and get stuck there. Mine all fell into place and I went with it.
The are fine looking rifles and the cartridge will do everything most of us will need done.

[doulos]

I think they are beautiful looking rifles. Every review Ive read speaks to them being real shooters too.

[swOhioMatt]

I hope you have more luck than I have with my 454 Casull M90A.

Loaded it to cycle the action. It double feeds. Wrote them via their contact gateway at their website, never got an answer. Finally decided to try and shoot it. Dropped a round in the chamber, closed the bolt and pulled the trigger. Nothing. Open the action, light primer hit. The next 30 fired, but all showed light primer hits. Every time it double fed on the first round out of the magazine. Definitely not a 6 plus 1 gun. The rebound spring on the firing pin is extremely strong. So I decided to remove a couple coils. Every screw is assembled with blue locktite. Damned aggravating getting them out. Got to the step where you push the pin out, disconnecting the lever from the bolt. It’s a roll pin that must be driven out. Not like John Moses’ 1886 where you remove a blanking screw on the left side and push the pin out through the hole in the right side of the receiver. Back together and no more light primer hits. Zeroed the aperture rear sight. It is a very accurate gun, but with the double feeds I’d never declare it a “dangerous game” rifle. Still trying to decide if I should have bought two of something else.

I’m now suspicious of all these glowing reviews. If you write a bad review the makers won’t send you guns to test. No more traffic and advertising income at your website. Makes me wonder how true they all are.

The problems don’t bother me as much as having a problem and being ignored. Stuff happens, I get that, just take my calls and fix it.

Edit, photo attached. Light primer hits were round on left. All 30 looked like this. The one on the right was my one test round since removing a couple coils from the firing pin spring.

[snowwolfe]

I hope you have more luck than I have with my 454 Casull M90A.

Loaded it to cycle the action. It double feeds. Wrote them via their contact gateway at their website, never got an answer. Finally decided to try and shoot it. Dropped a round in the chamber, closed the bolt and pulled the trigger. Nothing. Open the action, light primer hit. The next 30 fired, but all showed light primer hits. Every time it double fed on the first round out of the magazine. Definitely not a 6 plus 1 gun. The rebound spring on the firing pin is extremely strong. So I decided to remove a couple coils. Every screw is assembled with blue locktite. Damned aggravating getting them out. Got to the step where you push the pin out, disconnecting the lever from the bolt. It’s a roll pin that must be driven out. Not like John Moses’ 1886 where you remove a blanking screw on the left side and push the pin out through the hole in the right side of the receiver. Back together and no more light primer hits. Zeroed the aperture rear sight. It is a very accurate gun, but with the double feeds I’d never declare it a “dangerous game” rifle. Still trying to decide if I should have bought two of something else.

I’m now suspicious of all these glowing reviews. If you write a bad review the makers won’t send you guns to test. No more traffic and advertising income at your website. Makes me wonder how true they all are.

The problems don’t bother me as much as having a problem and being ignored. Stuff happens, I get that, just take my calls and fix it.

Edit, photo attached. Light primer hits were round on left. All 30 looked like this. The one on the right was my one test round since removing a couple coils from the firing pin spring.

Thats never good to hear. Have you tried posting your experience on their facebook page?

No one likes a lemon. About 12-14 years ago I had a double rifle built. Price was north of 10 grand and roughly a one year build date. Rifle wouldnt group better than 1 foot at 50 yards. Fortunately the dealer offered me a complete refund. Hate when people do not stand behind their products.

[Sgt H]

Given the Bighorn rifles are an 1886 action, I wonder if the double feed issue is due to cartridge length. The 1886 action was designed to feed 45/70 length and longer (up to 2.8") rounds, the 454 is 1 inch shorter. I wonder about Bighorn's choice of cartridges, why not the traditional 45/70, 45/90 and 50/110. Good looking rifles though.

[j p sixguns welldone]

i'd like to see one to handle.be sure to take some pics when ya get her.

[swOhioMatt]

Given the Bighorn rifles are an 1886 action, I wonder if the double feed issue is due to cartridge length. The 1886 action was designed to feed 45/70 length and longer (up to 2.8") rounds, the 454 is 1 inch shorter. I wonder about Bighorn's choice of cartridges, why not the traditional 45/70, 45/90 and 50/110. Good looking rifles though.

The gun is an 86/92 hybrid, so they decided to name the 500 Smith version (their first offering) the model 89. In size it falls between the two John Browning designs. I believe they have engineered it to feed rounds based on cartridge length. Their instruction for the model 90 (460 Smith) indicate that although it can chamber and shoot 454, it isn’t intended to be a dual cartridge gun. The model 90 and 90A each being geared to feed a specific length cartridge.

It appears the double feed occurs when the next round “jumps” past the magazine cutoff pawl on the left side of the receiver. Cycle the action slowly and as the bolt is retracted you can see the cutoff move back into position to block the next round, but that round finds its way past the cutoff. The second round, now half in the magazine and half on the cartridge lifter, prevents the lever from moving any further, jamming the action. You can close the bolt and cycle it a second time, usually then it will operate properly.

The finish, wood to metal fit and machined surfaces are first rate. It is a stunning gun to see and clearly has had lots of time lavished upon it during manufacture. Perhaps the 454 variant needs a little more development time.

[Nobade]

A co worker was thinking about buying one of the early production 500 S&W versions. A customer let him borrow it for a bit to test. Beautifully made rifle, very accurate, but no matter what would not feed smoothly. After looking at it closely we decided there is probably no way to get it to work like you would want it to, the length of the receiver is short enough that the angle the cartridge must achieve is going to prevent smooth feeding. He returned it to the owner and decided to look for a 1886. This was a very early example and perhaps they have improved them since then. I do not know, having seen a sample of only one.

[swOhioMatt]

The killer will be the major hit I’ll take if I dump it. I couldn’t in good conscience sell it without disclosing the problems. Truly an unenviable situation to be in.

[missionary5155]

"Never be the first and never be the last". Not sure where I first heard that saying but it does see to apply to lots of things.
When Chaparral first made the 1876 those first batches were hit or miss badly. So we waited until about 4000 were out there and ours is a winner. Ended up buying a 1876 Monte Model around the upper 4800 numbers. Another good rifle.

Big Horn is in the same boat. Nice to have those early serial numbers if you are a collector.... but shooter beware.

[snowwolfe]

Having never held a 89 all I can go on is the numerous youtube videos showing shooters handling the rifles and watching them shoot them. All the videos I found show a rifle that feeds OK. Of course it could also be edited footage.

One thing for sure is I will make sure before the rifle ships Big Horn confirms no feeding issue. As close as I can tell is they been making this rifle for almost 10 years so the bugs must be fixed as far as the 500 S&W goes.

[missionary5155]

I would sure hope so. Long cartridges probably do well. It is putting short ones in long actions that seems the bugaboo.

[txbirdman]

It would seem that a stiff spring on the cartridge stop would be required on straight walled cartridges to help solve the double feed problem. Maybe consideration to bullet shape would also be helpful. Since JMB designed the 92 action for bottle neck cartridges I feel that they probably function better although the manufactures seem to make straight walled cartridges work very well in 92 actions.

[swOhioMatt]

It would seem that a stiff spring on the cartridge stop would be required on straight walled cartridges to help solve the double feed problem. Maybe consideration to bullet shape would also be helpful. Since JMB designed the 92 action for bottle neck cartridges I feel that they probably function better although the manufactures seem to make straight walled cartridges work very well in 92 actions.

My thoughts too, and a WFN bullet coupled with the small 45 Colt rim on the 454 and 460 doesn’t help. Still Rossi seem to get it done at less than a third the price. Granted they aren’t as nice as the Big Horn, but they apparently work.

[FishHunter357]

Congrats on ordering the new gun. I've heard great things about them from a couple people I know that own them. Really like the idea of 500 s&w or 454 casull from a lever gun. I hope to add one to my collection someday!

[swOhioMatt]

Another phone call ignored. It appears there is no warranty, none is indicated at their website. I’ll have a welder TIG the surface and then surface grind to fix. Pathetic really on a $3k rifle.

[frank505]

Sorry to say but the owner is a class AAA douche. Had some decent people working there but they all quit......
This rifle was my idea, I built the prototypes and stayed as long as I could. Another company picked me up and was going to build my rifle but obviously didn’t. The whole mess has been a headache in our lives. Thank God I have the best woman in this planet to stand beside me and insure I didn’t crack.

Shot one of mine yesterday, smacking a two hundred yard rock repeatedly. Recovered two 400 grain Hornady bullets nicely expanded from misses. Shot some cast as well. Lots of fun I had.
Pm your issues with your rifle, I may be able to help fix it.

[45-70 fan]

Sorry to say but the owner is a class AAA douche. Had some decent people working there but they all quit......
This rifle was my idea, I built the prototypes and stayed as long as I could. Another company picked me up and was going to build my rifle but obviously didn’t. The whole mess has been a headache in our lives. Thank God I have the best woman in this planet to stand beside me and insure I didn’t crack.

Shot one of mine yesterday, smacking a two hundred yard rock repeatedly. Recovered two 400 grain Hornady bullets nicely expanded from misses. Shot some cast as well. Lots of fun I had.
Pm your issues with your rifle, I may be able to help fix it.

I wondered how reputable this company was/is. About a year or so ago I had been looking at their firearms on their website from time to time thinking about maybe purchasing one. When I was finally pretty sure it was what I wanted I went to go to their website and it was down. I attempted a number of times over a weeks time as I know server issues etc can crash a website. But, usually within a day or so it will be back up. This one wasn't so I opted based on that to go with a repro 1886 in 45-70. Considerably cheaper and it can still pack a heck of a punch if you push the limits with it. Way more than my shoulder likes anyway.

[swOhioMatt]

Sorry to say but the owner is a class AAA douche. Had some decent people working there but they all quit......
This rifle was my idea, I built the prototypes and stayed as long as I could. Another company picked me up and was going to build my rifle but obviously didn’t. The whole mess has been a headache in our lives. Thank God I have the best woman in this planet to stand beside me and insure I didn’t crack.

Shot one of mine yesterday, smacking a two hundred yard rock repeatedly. Recovered two 400 grain Hornady bullets nicely expanded from misses. Shot some cast as well. Lots of fun I had.
Pm your issues with your rifle, I may be able to help fix it.

Had I known the gun came without any manufacturer support I’d have immediately walked away. Unfortunately, I’m in way to deep and have no way to recoup my loss as it is now. Hopefully I can fix it.

PM sent.

[snowwolfe]

I’m not on Facebook but my wife is. Every question I had was answered on either Facebook or they called me at home. I know a few guys who own 2-3 of these rifles and speak highly of them. Just like anything else in life hope I end up with a good one.

[swOhioMatt]

Perhaps this reflects different attitudes toward prospects/future customers and an existing customer already on the hook? I guess we’ll see in around 12 months. I hope your rifle is a good one and your experience is pleasant.

[snowwolfe]

Perhaps this reflects different attitudes toward prospects/future customers and an existing customer already on the hook? I guess we’ll see in around 12 months. I hope your rifle is a good one and your experience is pleasant.

The guys who posted about owning several are on different forums I visit, not facebook.

[snowwolfe]

https://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/33451/big-horn-armory-500

[indian joe]

Another phone call ignored. It appears there is no warranty, none is indicated at their website. I’ll have a welder TIG the surface and then surface grind to fix. Pathetic really on a $3k rifle.

whoa! what are you gonna grind?

If its double feeding the problem is the moveable stopper part. That system is fail safe in a 92 unless something is broken (the part in your picture is a copy of a 92)

I dont reckon you should be able to see that thing move as you open the bolt - the first little bit of bolt movement its all done - bolt moves back an eigth of an inch, stopper releases, magazine is blocked, its a very positive system - small rim in relation to case body should make no difference - the stopper is shaped to clear the rim going into the magazine then block it coming back - go after that spring first!

saw a Rossi one time having this same problem and the spring behind the stopper was jammed in wrong and full of crud so the stopper was only part functioning - gun would feed sometimes jam sometimes. Simple fix ! cleaned it and put the spring in right

I am puzzled how its only doing this on the first round out of the magazine? are you sure you are getting that last round fed in properly?

Have a good look at your OAL when the bolt is closed the cutoff is open so there is a limit to what they will accept as far as too short goes

[swOhioMatt]

whoa! what are you gonna grind?

If its double feeding the problem is the moveable stopper part. That system is fail safe in a 92 unless something is broken (the part in your picture is a copy of a 92)

Agreed and exactly why I posted the picture of that very part.

I dont reckon you should be able to see that thing move as you open the bolt - the first little bit of bolt movement its all done - bolt moves back an eigth of an inch, stopper releases, magazine is blocked, its a very positive system - small rim in relation to case body should make no difference - the stopper is shaped to clear the rim going into the magazine then block it coming back - go after that spring first!

Operate the gun with the magazine tube removed and you can see the magazine cutoff clearly work in and out with the bolt opening and closing.

saw a Rossi one time having this same problem and the spring behind the stopper was jammed in wrong and full of crud so the stopper was only part functioning - gun would feed sometimes jam sometimes. Simple fix ! cleaned it and put the spring in right

I am puzzled how its only doing this on the first round out of the magazine? are you sure you are getting that last round fed in properly?

Round is in and loading gate closes behind it. Not sure how else to load it? When last round is loaded and it “goes around the bend” as it angles into the loading gate it must lever the rim of the previous round to the right side of magazine, opposite side of the magazine cutoff. Any round laying to the side opposite the cutoff will blow by. As stated in a previous post, it doesn’t double feed every time. If the cutoff had just a few thousands more depth to block those rounds too it would work just fine. The stiction between the WFN bullet and the round before it, plus the magazine spring pressing against them and clearance between the rounds and magazine tube causes the rounds to lay one way or the other in the tube. They aren’t all perfectly lined up in a nice neat row exactly one behind the other and right down the center of the magazine tube. They zig-zag in relation to one another. If they are zigged to the right, it double feeds.

Have a good look at your OAL when the bolt is closed the cutoff is open so there is a limit to what they will accept as far as too short goes

Cast bullets with crimp groove optimized by Veral Smith for my Freedom 454s. The bullet is maybe 1/8 inch from the front edge of the cylinder. About as long as you can get in the gun for which the cartridge was designed. Can’t be doublefeeding due to two short cartridges being released onto the cartridge lifter.

xxx

[txbirdman]

My son had a feeding problem that only occurred on the first round in his 92 Rossi. The problem turned out to be that the rim of the last cartridge loaded was hanging on the edge of the loading gate rather than resting in front of the bottom or the bolt. When the action was worked it allowed the cartridge stop to release the the next round from the mag tube when there was this other round hanging up on the back of the loading gate. If you slowly/partially work the action you can see what’s happening. The fix was to simply deburr and the back of the loading gate. The nose of the last bullet loaded into the magazine tube (which was setting cocked to the left due to the rim hanging on the loading gate) was tripping the cartridge stop allowing a second round past. This is what caused the double feed. If you look down into the action and see the last loaded cartridge aligned with the previous one in the mag tube all is fine but if the nose is going to the left and the rim to the right you will get the double feed.

[indian joe]

xxx

Round is in and loading gate closes behind it. Not sure how else to load it? When last round is loaded and it “goes around the bend” as it angles into the loading gate it must lever the rim of the previous round to the right side of magazine, opposite side of the magazine cutoff. Any round laying to the side opposite the cutoff will blow by. As stated in a previous post, it doesn’t double feed every time.

If the cutoff had just a few thousands more depth to block those rounds too it would work just fine.

yep yre on it ---- check operation of that stopper out of the gun then make sure its coming out to its fullest when its assembled - I would go after bighorn for a new stopper part including feed rail and spring if you can wangle it - (maybe they assembled a wrong calibre one in the first place??) I made that part for my conversion gun from scratch (dont have a mig/tig nor the confidence to try building one up - I would go to oxy welding for that (I am more confident with oxy and my eyes are not 100% so I can go slow with a torch) I would recommend manual file and fit for this part rather than trying to machine / grind it to shape - doesnt look like much but its a tricky little piece (like everything else in these style guns) -----best of luck -- it will be a sweet piece when you get it working right
Disappointing for something that price
The stiction between the WFN bullet and the round before it, plus the magazine spring pressing against them and clearance between the rounds and magazine tube causes the rounds to lay one way or the other in the tube. They aren’t all perfectly lined up in a nice neat row exactly one behind the other and right down the center of the magazine tube. They zig-zag in relation to one another. If they are zigged to the right, it double feeds.
needs fixin till that dont bother it!!!

[missionary5155]

It is for sure any company can produce a Monday morning monster. Even Rolls Royce still sends an official mechanic out on new car "house calls".
But to abandon a client with a bag full of limes ....

[snowwolfe]

Another positive thread.
https://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/33596/big-horn-armory-range-day

swOhioMatt, Hope your issue gets resolved soon

[swOhioMatt]

swOhioMatt, Hope your issue gets resolved soon

Sent it back “cold” to the address shown on their web page. Someone signed for it Friday, so it wasn’t refused for lack of a return authorization. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

Edit: And my cover letter was cordial, “hello”, “please” and “thank you”.

[swOhioMatt]

The gun returned yesterday. Other than proof of delivery, I knew nothing until UPS walked in the door with it. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it, been working on my mechanization of a Star sizer. I returned it with 7 dummy rounds loaded with my WFN bullets. They too came back and a full mag of 6 worked fine. I feel confident it’s good.

Overall, it is a very nice gun built to a very high standard. Is it work $3k? Only you can answer that question, but it is to me- now that it works. There are fine details such as the forearm and buttstock are glass bedded to the action. Something I would not have learned if not for the feed issues. Their people skills need help. A simple “send it back” was all that was needed, but their attention to detail is good. Bad ones slip through, no big deal if you work to fix them.

[missionary5155]

I am happy to read the feed issue is "probably fixed".

[.45colt]

I received an e-mail from Big Horn around three weeks ago stating they were moving to a bigger facility. It would be great if your gun is fixed and they sure need help with customer service. Good Luck.

[snowwolfe]

Not defending them in any way for the lack of communication. They appear to be on top of their game. You mailed them a rifle with a defect and they fixed it quickly and returned it. That is pretty good service.

[frank505]

Was doing some load testing this morning. 350 grain gas check from accurate molds with 5744 and 1680. Starline brass, Remington 91/2M primer. Cases trimmed to 1.610. Fifty grains of 1680 ran 1920 and shot a decent group at 72 yards. Broke the elector on the last shot!!! Understand that none of you will ever shoot the amount of rounds I’ve put through that rifle. I quit counting at 10k and very few were light. San said he’s never seen that break before