Cimarron 1894 38-55 Issues

[jefe_scotez]

Hey all,

I've been scouring the forum for a while now, but am still not sure how to proceed. I've done quite a bit of reloading with bottleneck cartridges and jacketed bullets, but this is my first try at cast boolits. I'm purchasing boolits for now, but we'll see how it goes down the road.

I have not yet purchased the rifle, but am putting together my loading stuff. I might be putting the cart in front of the horse here, but i like to secure ammo before i buy a new gun.

My research suggests that .380 boolits are the ticket with the new Cimarrons. Their stated grove diameter is .379.

I have:

250pcs Winchester 38-55 brass
2lbs IMR 3031, some trail boss
600 Bear Creek supply .380
Plenty of WLR/some CCI 200s

I loaded up a dummy round and my neck measures .3965. I DO NOT think it will chamber, but as I said above I don't have the gun in hand.

I'm pretty sure i could chamber the .380 boolits with the long Starline brass but it is UNAVAILABLE. I've scoured the internet and gunbroker to no avail. I also called Starline and they didn't have any idea when they would manufacture again.

My question is:

Should i just suck it up and buy some .378 or .377 cast boolits and see if they'll shoot? Do you think they have a chance to shoot ok?
Buy a Winchester Miroku so I can run my Winchester Brass? This would also necessitate buying different boolits?

I guess I'm just extremely frustrated that I can't get my hands on any Starline 2.125 brass.

[Dom]

I have a Marlin CowBoy 38-55. It's bore slugs right at .378. I size my bullets at .379, GC & PB. . 1200fps for the PB, & 1400 fps for the GC style. My bullets are cast of scrap WW , with a BHN of 10.5. I also PC. These bullets shoot quite well in my rifle. It's important to know your bore Dia, first, before selecting a bullet dia.

[Nobade]

Wait until you have the rifle to fit ammo to it. Those Winchester cases are too thick for properly chambered 38-55 rifles, and depending on what your individual rifle is you might have to wait to find some Starline ones. This is an issue using modern reloading techniques with old time dimensioned guns, the groove diameter is supposed to be .380", and the chamber is not supposed to be able to accept a round loaded with a bullet that big since it's designed to use nearly pure lead and black powder where the diameter of the bullet really doesn't matter much since it's going to bump up to fit as soon as it's fired. Can't do that with modern hard bullets and smokeless powder so it gets a bit tricky sometimes. Be patient, you'll get it sorted out eventually.

[jgstrug]

What are you going to use the rifle for? I am a Marlin lever fan too,and both of my 38-55 's are rebored to. 375 so .377 cast is perfect and starline short brass. Very happy with them and they are accurate. All you would need is a sight to get out there to 300-400.I use mine for silhouette,rams at 200yrd move the sight less than a 1/4" from chickens to rams.

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[ascast]

I think you should get your gun first, then start going nuts over the details. Plenty of guys/gals here who shoot 38's so will figure what needs fixed. I think I have a 380 mold or two; maybe something bigger.

[jefe_scotez]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll hold off until gun in hand. I figure i'll buy some undersized casts to play with until Starline brass becomes available.

I don't have any real plans for the gun. I just wanted to learn more about this aspect of reloading. I'm sure it will blast some pigs though.

[Kraschenbirn]

Not an 1894, but my 38-55 Cimarron Highwall slugs a hair over .379 and really likes 20-1 'as cast' (.380-.381) at around 1350 fps. Also, no problem chambering Winchester brass loaded with .380 boolits.

Bill

[725]

I've found that Winchester brass works best with jacketed bullets and Starline works best with cast. For me, cast in a Winchester case is very difficult to chamber and even sometimes impossible. Agree w/ the above, get your gun and then work out issues if they present. Who knows, maybe no issues will occur. Also, fire formed .38-55 from .30-30 seem to have that thin neck material. Just have to experiment.

[gwpercle]

In this game you must put the horse first ...so much depends on a individual rifle's chamber , throat and bore ...and no two are alike ...what mine requires may not even chamber in yours .
Get the rifle in your hands first ...and take measurements !
Gary

[jefe_scotez]

I now have a glimer of hope. If all my pre-acquired components chamber, much less shoot well, I'll be super happy.

[2stepTex]

If you are having trouble chambering your loads due to the combination of oversize (0.378-0.380) bullets and commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) brass, try using a Lee Precision custom bullet sizer. My first experience with chambering problems was with the dummy rounds that I fashioned for my Marlin 1893CB 38-55WCF. After sizing the dummies to 0.394 (bullets in brass partially sized), I attempted the same thing on live rounds and had great success. In fact, I poured some bullets molded in a Lyman 40143 casting mold and sized them down to 0.380" to take advantage of the 180-grain weight for testing various propellants. They made great short-range target loads and I still reload and use them for plinking. The 38-55WCF is a reloaders wet dream, especially since factory ammo for this caliber is outrageously expensive.

[Nobade]

.380" bullets are not oversize for a 38-55. It is a true 38 caliber, not a .375. At least it is supposed to be. If anyone cares to look at the SAAMI chamber drawing you will see that a groove size bullet seated into a case should not chamber. It is designed for soft lead bullets and black powder. Of course now some of the makers cut their chambers larger to make hard bullets work, and some build their rifles with undersize bores to accomplish the same thing. And renting an oversize reamer to open up your chamber is a popular thing to do for many people who don't understand how this cartridge is supposed to function. Of course none of this is right or wrong, and depends on what individuals want their rifle to do, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing.

[jefe_scotez]

Got the rifle in hand today.

Good news: It's beautiful.

Bad news: Slugged the bore at .381 and my .380 Winchester brass dummy round won't chamber.

I have a lot of the .380 bullets, so I'd like to give those a go, but definitely need to get my hands on some Starline brass.

I'd gladly buy some from anyone willing to part with a few.

[SR James]

A pack of 50 brand new Starline 2.125 .38-55 brass sold on Gunbroker a few days ago. Winning bid was $221. It’s out there but pricey. Good luck.

[jefe_scotez]

A pack of 50 brand new Starline 2.125 .38-55 brass sold on Gunbroker a few days ago. Winning bid was $221. It’s out there but pricey. Good luck.

I saw that. I was a bidder early on. I just couldn't stomach paying that much. Ended up finding 100rds of loaded ammo for the same price haha. 100 pcs of long starline brass, 100 primers, 100 moly coated .379 bullets, and powder for the same as 50 pcs of brass on gunbroker. It's getting pretty wild out there.

[gwpercle]

Got the rifle in hand today.

Good news: It's beautiful.

Bad news: Slugged the bore at .381 and my .380 Winchester brass dummy round won't chamber.

I have a lot of the .380 bullets, so I'd like to give those a go, but definitely need to get my hands on some Starline brass.

I'd gladly buy some from anyone willing to part with a few.

Huntington Die Specialties , is showing 38-55 cases 20 / $12.10 (long) on-line catalog ...but
on-line ordering system is down and accepting telephone orders only , call toll free 1-866-735-6237.
So what shows on line may or may not be in stock .
They aslo list 38-55 (short) @ $9.60 / 20 cases but I'm not sure what short - long is for .
But HDS may have some brass or at least a "waiting List " .
www.huntingtons.com

when you get to HDS home page click on and enter ecommerce web site and go from there , lots of interesting stuff .
Gary

[NY_Treeguy]

Huntington Die Specialties , is showing 38-55 cases 20 / $12.10 (long) on-line catalog ...but
on-line ordering system is down and accepting telephone orders only , call toll free 1-866-735-6237.
So what shows on line may or may not be in stock .
They aslo list 38-55 (short) @ $9.60 / 20 cases but I'm not sure what short - long is for .
But HDS may have some brass or at least a "waiting List " .
www.huntingtons.com

when you get to HDS home page click on and enter ecommerce web site and go from there , lots of interesting stuff .
Gary

Called Huntington's last week ISO 7.35 Carcano. They said no brass at all in stock.

[gwpercle]

Called Huntington's last week ISO 7.35 Carcano. They said no brass at all in stock.

Kind of suspected that might be the case .... (pardon my bad pun ... :groner:

Thanks for checking brass HDS status :drinks:

Smilies are getting to me :cbpour:

Make them stop :lovebooli

[Springfield]

I have a bunch of 38-55 brass. I will try and sort it today, as it seems I have Starline and Winchester brass. Doing a quick measure with a decent caliper the Win runs about 11-12 thou and the Starline more like 9-10 thou, so there is a difference. If I end up having a few hundred Starline I will get back to you about sending you some.
10 years or so ago I bought a Buffalo classic cheap from a guy because he couldn't get it to shoot well at all. He was using hard .377 bullets and smokeless. It has a .380 bore so I tried my soft .381 bullets and BP but they were very difficult to chamber. So I rented a reamer and now it shoot fine. It took out very little material. I don't have a range locally that goes beyond 200 yards so this worked well for me.
A couple of years later I re-barrelled a Winchester 94, from 30-30 to 38-55, using a Numrich Octagon barrel, and have had no problems chambering anything, must be a large chamber. Might get around to chamber casting both guns one of these day, just for my own info.

[jefe_scotez]

Thanks. Yeah, I have some .379 cast boolits in loaded ammo coming(Starline long). I figure if that will chamber, I'll pop one out and try my .380 boolits. If either of those shoot 2MOA with iron sights, I'll call it good.

If neither chambers, I'll head down the reamer road.

[jefe_scotez]

UPDATE: I got the .379 with Starline brass to chamber. Woohoo! It slides in just fine. I'll probably pull a few and try my .380s as well. New issue is that it doesn't quite want to feed well. They hang up. It seems like the longer brass is just a smidge too long.

Should I trim to 2.100 and give it a go?

[jefe_scotez]

Got the ammo in. The .379 with starline long brass will chamber but doesn't cycle well. I pulled a bullet and trimmed to 2.100 and it cycles and chambers. Have to trim to 2.090 to chamber with the .380 bullets and that's a little tight. I'll probably just trim to 2.080. Looks like Starline short is the answer for me.

Thanks all. We'll see how she shoots. I'll be shooting .380 Bear Creek supply cast moly coated. I'm going to shoot for 1500fps with 3031. If it shoots well enough to suit me, I'll stick with the .380. If not, I'll have to search out some .381 or .382.

[plainsman456]

I have a marlin CB model and size to 379 using Winchester brass and it works darn good.

I have also made some brass fit out of 30-30 brass once fired,as well as a few pieces of 32 win.special brass.

All formed good but they are a tad short compared to the Winchester brass.

They are powder coated.

[jednorris]

[ I recently got a C-Sharps and found bullets from Bear Creek Supply came in .377, .378 & .379 in 255 & .310 Gr. Postell. They shoot well in my Rifle and were only $44.00 per 300. The owners were very helpful in helping me select the proper bullet for my needs. I highly reccommend you try them.

[3DKiwi]

I have the same rifle, a 26" barrelled Cimarron 94. I also had the same issues with the bullet diameter and brass length. I also bought the long starline brass and the round hangs up when cycling from the mag, the standard starline 2.08 brass is the way to go. Mine also slugged at a fraction under .380, and I size my bullets to .381 and that works great.