Misfires with Federal Prmers in new packaging

[Wilderness]

A fellow LAS shooter with a Marlin 336A .30-30. and Winchester 92 .32-20, has recently experienced a run of misfires with Federal primers, Large Rifle AND Small Rifle, in the new packaging.

We expect misfires in lever actions with CCI, but until now shifting to Federal primers has always been "the fix".

Is anyone else experiencing misfires with Federal primers in the new packaging?

I have in the past used CCILPM primers in a M64 Winchester .32 Special with a weak strike, with excellent results. Pistol primers I expect would be fine in the .32-20, but I am reluctant to lead others down that path in the bigger rifles.

[ReloaderFred]

The first thing I would check is to make sure the primers are seated below flush. My goal is seating at least .004" below flush.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[imashooter2]

When did they switch packaging?

[G W Wade]

If you find primers in the store, they are new package. 2 tone blue with swirl or wave. GW

[MUSTANG]

I suspect poor production/inspection standards. I have seen more Primer Indent non Firing ammunition on the ground & in the Brass Buckets/Trash over the last two years than in the previous 10 years.

[imashooter2]

If you find primers in the store, they are new package. 2 tone blue with swirl or wave. GW

I got you. Just new graphics. Thanks!

[Wilderness]

If you find primers in the store, they are new package. 2 tone blue with swirl or wave. GW

That's the one - thanks for the clarification.

[fastdadio]

We expect misfires in lever actions with CCI, but until now shifting to Federal primers has always been "the fix".
Is anyone else experiencing misfires with Federal primers in the new packaging?
.
CCI primers have been my top shelf choice in primers for decades. Of the 10's thousands I've lit off, I've had less than 5 misfires total in all types of guns I use them in. I'm still using pre-scamdemic old stock. So, is this about to change?

[Wilderness]

CCI primers have been my top shelf choice in primers for decades. Of the 10's thousands I've lit off, I've had less than 5 misfires total in all types of guns I use them in. I'm still using pre-scamdemic old stock. So, is this about to change?

Fastdadio: I am sure your CCIs are just fine when hit hard enough. It's not about dud primers, it's about the hardness of the cups. When CCI misfire in lever actions it is due to relatively hard cups (relative say to Federal LR, and even more so to LP primers) and lighter hammer strike in some lever actions. It's all relative. The question now is whether Federal have moved to a harder cup.

[FergusonTO35]

The Lyman primer pocket uniformer tool has solved alot of light strike problems for me, especially with brass that has been loaded a few times. I have always believed that manufacturers are less picky about primers sold as components rather than in loaded ammo. If loaded ammo gets a bad reputation their revenue can really suffer. The number of reloaders is very small compared to people who buy loaded ammo, and the profit margin on components is alot smaller too.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

When rifles misfire, I look for the problem in the rifle. The two piece firing pin of the Marlin is not your friend, may need 'adjustment', I have also found many Marlin's with 'VERY GENEROUS HEADSPACE' and some folks think you make a firearm run smoother by reducing mainspring power. There is much written on Marlin's and misfires, I would look to the rifle, expecting it to go BANG every time I have a PROPERLY reloaded cartridge in it, or fixing the rifle until it did fire EVERY time it should. I have a bunch of Marlin's, they all go bang, even with CCI Mag Large Rifle Primers (large primer pockets of course). Can't comment on Winchester 92's or 94's.

[wv109323]

First, will the rounds go off if tried a second or third time? If they do then it is a seating ,headspace problem.
Second, if they do not go off, how are you cleaning your brass?
I recently ran into what I thought was a problem with Winchester primers in small pistol, both .38 spec. And 9mm.
It turned out I was wet tumbling my brass. The primer pockets were not completely dry when I loaded the rounds. Make sure your brass is completely dry. Even 3 or 4 days in the sun will not allow the brass to completely dry. I suggest baking your brass.
Another thing is to put some brass in a sealed grass jar. Let it set in the sun. If there is any condensation in the jar your brass is not dry.
I thought there was no way my brass could be wet enough to deactivate the primers but with more thorough drying my problem went away.

[fastdadio]

Fastdadio: I am sure your CCIs are just fine when hit hard enough. It's not about dud primers, it's about the hardness of the cups. When CCI misfire in lever actions it is due to relatively hard cups (relative say to Federal LR, and even more so to LP primers) and lighter hammer strike in some lever actions. It's all relative. The question now is whether Federal have moved to a harder cup.

Got it.That clears things up.

[truckjohn]

I've never had a problem, even with CCI #34's. My Marlins put plenty of smackdown on primers...

I'd be looking at problems with the gun first...

As others noted, I've had reloading problems due to primers.... But it was excessive protrusion leading to other problems. The protrusion was due to a radius in the bottom of the forged primer pocket in the cartridge base. It seems like that change to an excessive radius at the bottom of the primer pocket happened about 15 years ago. A primer pocket uniforming tool is now a necessity for me for any new-to-me brass (either virgin, or once fired factory ammo.)

[Norske]

My range volunteer job provides contact with a guy who worked at Federal when they were testing a non-lead primer. It didn't work well. Check the package.

[Wilderness]

Thanks to all for your responses.

I have more information from my friend as of today.

The problem has arisen only with the change from old Federal to new Federal primers, meaning the ones with the new artwork. To me, this exonerates the rifles.

Misfires went off OK on the second strike. That eliminates dud primers, but it leaves the possibilities of harder cups or incomplete seating. The latter may occur with a hand seater if primers are harder or of slightly larger diameter.

Primer seating is with a hand tool, probably Lee. The next step will be to feel all seated primers with the finger to detect irregularities, and to seat with the press rather than with the hand tool.

Just to complicate the issue, there has also been a report of an approx 10% misfire rate with the new Federal primers in a Remington slide action .223. Again no details re quality of reloading.

The question (amended) remains, has anyone noticed harder cups or harder seating with the new Federal primers (in boxes with new artwork)?

Edit & Update:

My friend has had a closer look at his leftover ammo, and it looks like incomplete seating is the culprit. We'll know for sure after the next shoot with more closely scrutinised ammo. Seating is with a hand tool.

Cases are the same lot, so it looks like the new primers are putting up more resistance to being seated. Harder? Bigger?

I used to seat primers with a Lyman 310 tool, believing the bit about seating primers by "feel". Then I ran into misfires in a .308, connected to incomplete primer crimp removal. I switched to a Lyman straight line primer seating tool mounted in the press, and have never had a problem since.

Another edit:

My Federal LR primers from a year or two back measure 0.211" (Moore & Wright micrometer) for the standard ones, and about a quarter of a thou less for the Match primers.

I don't have a measurement on the new ones yet? Any offers?

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

The CCI primers being hard urban legend will not die. Several years ago my Pedersoli sharps had a worn toggle link (dog bone) and the breech block did not fully raise into place. This caused the primer strike to be off center by A LOT . I had two people on the firing line tell me that my CCI primers were too hard. Filling the worn oval rings in the toggle link with silver solder and re-drilling the holes fixed the problem.
A few years ago my Uberti 1873 Winchester had a firing pin extension that was binding inside of the bolt. CCI #300 and #350 primers went bang the first time , every time. Winchester large pistol primers needed two strikes, every time. The problem was most definitely with the rifle, yet only one brand of primers was affected.

[G W Wade]

Many gunsmiths selling full house competition pistols come with warning to use Federal primers for reliability. Powers Custom was one on highly tuned S&W revolvers. SASS smith Jimmey Spurs says Federal only. A friend called Jimmy about working over a Bond derringer. Was told NO unless used Fed only. I do not have my guns tuned that far and can usually get by with any good primer. Not sure about SSI and Federal offering since the merger between the owner/company. Will have to see GW

[uscra112]

Oh, jeeez! NOW you tell me! I just bought some new-artwork Federal SR primers. At current famine prices, too.

Will be used mostly in a Savage/Stevens bolter that hits like the Hammer of Thor, so I hope I'll be OK.