Tricks for better base fill out when ladle casting?

[Wm Cook]

Are there any tricks to getting better base fill out (sharp base for gas checks) when ladle casting.

If I was bottom pouring and a base fill problem comes up I usually pressure cast with a full pot of alloy and the corners come out crisp and sharp. But I’m getting rounded base fill with my ladle casting. I’m new to ladle casting as of the past year. 30+ years experience with bottom pouring

Accurate single cavity .30 cal brass mold. Molds preheated to around 380 before casting, Linotype @ 700 degrees, running mold temperatures around 340 degrees. Cadence is typically around 20 seconds to get a clean sprue cut and to be able to hold the mold temp in the 330, 340 degree range. The sprue plate is kept a bit on the loose side and the sprue is cut with a gloved hand.

I tried a full dipper and standing it on the sprue plate hole 3, 5 seconds hoping that would simulate a bottom pour pressure cast but so far that didn’t seem to help. I’ll give that another try tomorrow when I ladle cast with two new molds; one another .30 Accurate and the other my old Lyman 311299.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill Cook, Missouri, Stl BR cub.

[fc60]

Greetings,

When I used to ladle cast pistol bullets with 4 and 6 cavity moulds, I used a 2 pound open ladle and filled each hole one at a time.

I watched for what the old timers called the "standing wave". This is when the cavity is full and the excess metal flows upward like a small wave.

I then moved to the next cavity, repeat, etc...

Cheers,

Dave

[country gent]

I vented my sprue plates and dont cast for a sprue any more. I pour a full ladle into the hole letting the excess run back into the pot. This keeps the base hot much longer allowing for off gassing and shrinkage . It also keeps the sprue plate hotter longer.

My best bases come from a nose pour mould. I suspect its from the hot alloy pressure and added time the alloy is molten.

[Wm Cook]

This is all one and two cavity stuff and I do the typical 45 degrees to start and roll the ladle and mold together in a more upright position. I dallied with the over pour spilling back into the pot and I might have to go back to that. Since you mentioned that though I think it is a sprue problem. The sprue on top of the plate is not large enough. Same thing happens with bottom pour. I’m thinking I need to leave a larger sprue?

[Gtek]

In my acquired pile several of the old well used Ideal iron blocks have had inboard top edge very lightly chamfered in what I believe was a way to vent base.

[Wm Cook]

I think pouring a large sprue is maybe used for poor venting? In my case I keep the sprue plate somewhat loose which maybe helps venting to a degree.

But for those that ladle cast, are you all getting sharp we’ll defined bases?? Thanks, Bill C.

[popper]

My moulds are Accurate Al. On the older ones I used a diamond file to just break the top edge of the mould for better venting. I Had a 31-165 that gave bad bases. Dimple right at the shank. Pour rate was part of the problem - too fast and air can't escape fast enough. I don't pour a big sprue puddle. Another trick I learned was to lightly drop the mould on a hard surface after our - forces metal into the base. I tried the small ladle long time ago, just stick with bottom pour now. A heavy ladle on top of the sprue plate can't help venting. Tricks above got me from 30% rejects to almost none.

[Jim22]

A little trick I use is to keep a steel plate below the support I use to hold blocks up while pouring liquid lead into them. It's about an inch and a half lower than the support. When puddles form I pull the mould so it drops onto the steel plate. When temperatures are right The puddles don't freeze until the mould hits the steel. That little drop with the sudden stop causes liquid alloy to help fill out boolit details. The steel I use is an 8" diameter disc of AR500 steel that I bought for targets.

Jim

[MT Gianni]

All bets are off with a brass mold. What size ladle are you using? Throw the lee away, the lyman is barely functional but does work. Roto metals sells a great one.
When you have filled the mold keep pouring. Empty the ladle over the sprue plate with it angled so it runs off into the melt. This seems crazy but I have molds that fill better from front to rear and vice versa. Take good notes.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

For large diameter boolits I pour more slowly to allow the bottom to fill up; but you've got to practice a bit for optimum results.

DG

[Der Gebirgsjager]

For large diameter boolits I pour more slowly to allow the bottom to fill up; but you've got to practice a bit for optimum results.

DG

[Bazoo]

I have had to pressure cast with a ladle, and it worked well for the mould that liked it. My normal method is to pour as large a sprue as I can without letting it run off the edges. That works most of the time with my moulds. I too have poured over the edges a ladle full to get good results but I don’t like doing it and try other methods first with an ornery mould. I have found I get better results by testing the mould on the edge of the pot when casting, as opposed to trying to hold it freehand.

I also have seen moulds that prefer to be filled front to back or back to front but not the other. I can’t explain that one.

[405grain]

With RCBS and Lyman mold handles the edge of the mold handle stands proud of the sides of the mold. After I fill the mold, and before the lead solidifies, I give the mold a light tap by bumping the edge of the mold handle. This supposedly makes sure that I get good base fill. Dose it matter: I don't know, but I just make it part of my casting cadence.

[Wm Cook]

Thanks. I’ll start out by pouring slowly and practice leaving a wet sprue puddle that stays on the plate. Before it frost I’ll lightly bounce the base of the mold on a leather covered steel plate. If that doesn’t work I’ll throw in some variations of overflow back into the pot. I just got to fiddle with it some more. I’m using a Lyman ladle but I’ll throw one of Roto Metals ladles in the shopping cart the next time I get alloy. Thanks for the help. Bill C.

[Wm Cook]

& I’ll try tapping the Lyman handle. This must sound crazy but this the fun side of casting. Thanks, Bill C.

[gwpercle]

Pressure cast with the ladle side spout ... like a Lyman Ladle has .
Stand the mould / ladle up straight and give it a just second to fill ... here is important part
Leave a nice big sprue puddle on the opening , liquid metal , as the boolit solidifies it will suck from the puddle on top and fill in the edges .
If you don't quickly pour a puddle and let the hardening boolit draw more alloy into the cavity as it hardens you get wonky base ... let the sprue harden before cutting or you will smear lead across mould top and underside of sprue plate .
Gary

[country gent]

By vented I cut a groove from the sprue holes to the far edge leaving a small lip on the edge, on the top of the sprue plate. I did mine with the mill and a ball end mill Im working with mostly 2 cavity moulds also but 38 -45 caliber in the 360-550 weight range. I got decent bases before but the vent really made them sharper

A thicker plate with deeper angled sprue may help if one is available. Or another way is to recut the angle of the sprue cavity so it is wider at the top.

A little layout and a dremel tool you can rework the plates fairly easily. cutting the groove or with a dressed stone the countersink.

Im sure you havve but have you tried upping the temp a little like 25*. Brass moulds seem to like running a little hotter

[Mk42gunner]

I prefer to ladle cast, but have bottom poured a lot of boolits.

My ladle is an RCBS, but you should be able to get the same results with a Lyman.

My method is to pour with about a half inch gap between the nozzle of the ladle and the hole in the sprue plate. The put the spout in the hole and twist method just does not work for me.

If I get poor fillout or rounded bases; once the cavity is full I simply touch the spout to the hole and give it just a touch of extra lead.

It doesn't take much time or alloy, I doubt a rounded base needs even a half grain of lead to fill it out properly.

Robert

[Wm Cook]

I've reached some conclusions for ladle casting that is relevant to only me. I do not claim this is the right way to ladle cast, only that this is the procedure that I ended with today. As with anything related to casting, you often adjust with subtle tweaks each time you pick up a mold. So I can say for certainty that this worked for me today and that I'll probably make slight adjustments to what I do tomorrow.

After trying a number of the suggestions I ended by opening up the Lyman nozzle to improve pour and with the mold at about 45 degrees I poured the alloy into the mold from about 1/8 to 1/4" away. I poured it faster than I would have expected and I kept pouring with the alloy cascading over the side of the mold back into the pot. I leveled off the mold as the ladle was about empty. This sounds messy as all get out but after I got the hang of it only a dribble actually stuck to the side of the mold, handle and while waiting for the sprue to set up I could easily pick the dribble off. The end result was that when I went to pour the next bullet the mold was as clean as if I were bottom pouring.

I continued to pour alloy in the direction of the sprue hole long past the point where I would have stopped to let it puddle up. In fact I poured long enough that the puddle did not stand up like a puddle does but the heat of the alloy and the heated sprue plate let the alloy kind of spread out. The three or four seconds that I was over pouring the alloy allowed the cavity to suck in the excess as it started to set. So in the end the sprue I cut off was more flat washer shaped than a puddle standing tall. I think the continuous pour over sprue plate seemed to give the set up process time to suck in what was needed to fill the base. This was with a single cavity 220 grain brass mold, glove hand to cut the sprue off.

Results were pretty good. About a hundred was cast and probably 98% came out +/- .3 to .4 grains.

One thing I learned is that having a controlled flow out of the ladle is critical. Kind of on the fly I took a rat tail file and opened up the nozzle a little. I'll probably open this up some more and most probably the next time I get alloy from Roto I'll pick up one of their ladle's. They show two different ladle's one 2 1/2 and one 2 1/4". With the limited experience I have with ladle pouring my impression should be questioned but I think I would want a slightly larger diameter nozzle than the Lyman's.

All of this is jsut my opinion and I do not want to come across as a know it all. Just sharing my experience today and to tie off the post. Thanks for all of the help. Bill C.

[country gent]

If you have a set of number drills try a .205 drill to open the lyman spout up with. I believe its a number 5 drill same as the 1/4 28 tap drill

[charlie b]

I don't ladle cast, but, I also had problems with base and bottom drive band fill out with a bottom pour.

Turns out it was heat. I was letting the sprue plate cool too much, even with my 'normal' large sprue puddles. Once I kept the sprue plates hotter then I got much more consistent bases. 'Perfect' for me is when the sprue puddle takes about 6sec to solidify.

But, I use aluminum molds. Never used brass.

[Wm Cook]

I’ll give that a try, thanks! Bill.

[MT Gianni]

If you order from Roto metals you want a 1 lb ladle.