Pitted Carcano Barrel

[FabMan]

I shot this with cast and jacketed with poor results. Cleaned it again the best I could and it shows a lot of pitting. I would imagine whatever bullet type you shoot, it will deposit material in the pits. What material would be better to fill the pits with? Copper, lead, powder coat? I would like to shoot both cast and jacketed in it.

[lar45]

I have a turk Mauser in 8x57 that was my first sporter job that I did all myself. My first loads for it was with the Speer 150 and got 12" patterns at 25yds. The barrel is very rough and slugged way oversized at .328".
I was going to put a new barrel on, but some of the guys here suggested that I try a heavier/longer bullet first. So I tried the Speer 170 and got near 1" groups at 100yds.
I'm not saying this would be the cure for your rifle, but it might be worth a try.
What does the muzzle and crown look like?
If it doest shoot, it shouldn't hurt to recrown it.
I wonder in Neumrich has takeoff barrels in better shape?

[lar45]

I found one at gunpartscorp.com but for some reason, I can't post the link???

[FabMan]

Thanks, the crown looks great. I have used the larger 6.5(.268) jacketed bullets and cast up to .271. It would make sense to shoot jacketed to fill in the pits with copper, and have a more permanent fill than lead. But this goes against the practice of getting all the copper out before using lead cast. I may be able to produce a more accurate round, but still leaves the question of what material is better left in the pits.

[racepres]

Leave that Cupronickel right in it... Try it... sure won't hurt!!
I had a Milsurp I spent an inordinate amount of time getting spotless.... Bad idea... worked better with some fouling... Odd huh???

[sigep1764]

Maybe try fire lapping with JB Bore Paste, could smooth it out.

[FabMan]

I fire lapped about a dozen abrasive coated slugs through it and tho it was brighter the pitting is still there. As a reference I was getting 3-4” patterns at 25 yards with several different loads, both jacketed and cast. I can do better with a handgun. A borescope of the bore shows rough pitting(I hate whenever I use that scope) Maybe I’m overthinking this but the bore looks like it would strip material off the bullet and deposit a smother layer than what I have now?

[wmitty]

Have you considered trying paper patched boolits to see if the accuracy might improve? Not sure how the patched boolits perform in gain twist rifling, but they sure slick up the barrels I have fired them from. The boolit needs to be land diameter and wrapped to groove diameter…

[FabMan]

Paper patching sounds interesting. Never tried it. I will have to see about a sizing die to accommodate this.

[DonHowe]

Based on what I have read and my experience with a Ditch Manali her with a badly pitted bore, for cast bullet shooting lube is the thing to fill pits with. A good coating of lube in my bore and bullets carrying lots of lube allows me to shoot groups of similar size to those from a friend's Dutch carbine with jacketed bullets.
I tried paper patch bullets and got shotgun patterns. Same bullets shot great with lube in the barrel.

[gwpercle]

Have you considered trying paper patched boolits to see if the accuracy might improve? Not sure how the patched boolits perform in gain twist rifling, but they sure slick up the barrels I have fired them from. The boolit needs to be land diameter and wrapped to groove diameter…

Paper Patch or maybe a Teflon Patch with plumbers teflon tape .

I cleaned up an 1895 7X57 Mauser (sewer pipe looking) barrel with a brass bore brush , wrapped with 0000 steel wool and coated with J-B Bore Compound . Ran that brush back and forth untill my arms ached ...did that 6-7 times . Bore never got shiny , stayed frosted but was clean and smooth enough to shoot decent groups and cast boolits .
Gary

[FabMan]

Thanks, I have read about lube from cast bullets filling pits. The cast lead sized .269, with lube(LLA) at 1400fps left large streaks of lead. The bore looks like 80 grit sandpaper and will lead any cast bullet. It makes sense to fire FMJ loads with the hope to smooth it out and fill in the pits.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello FabMan,

I once had a 6.5 Carcano Carbine, I was lucky to hit the same target at 50 yards.
They had a progressive rifling, but I believe not a very strong action.
I traded it off for a 6.5 Swede and never looked back.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Dusty Bannister]

LLA does not fill the pits and does not give much of a gas seal which results in leading. Please try the Bees wax based bullet lube and then compare the results on the target. It might take several shots to fill in the pits and begin to shoot right.

[Wayne Smith]

You haven't said what Carcano you have. Some of the rifles were cut to carbine length - thus removing the faster twist part of the barrel. I understand these will never shoot. Maybe a round ball.

[FabMan]

It’s the 91 TS carbine. I think these were not cut down and do not have gain twist.

[Thin Man]

The 6.5 Carcano rifle was designed to throw a .268" bullet. A few years back I was working with a Carcano rifle trying to see what group size it would produce. Using .268" bullets it gave me shotgun-size patterns, even with a good barrel in it. Out of curiosity I loaded .264" bullets and the rifle immediately gave me rifle groups. You might try the smaller diameter bullets in your rifle just to see how it responds to the smaller size projectiles.

[FabMan]

Thanks, I have some .264 FMJ to try.
I mic’d some military Carcano bullets and they measure .266-.267. Seemed to have a nickel jacket.
I wish I had some steel jacketed in that diameter to clean up the bore. I’m leaning to just fire .266 FMJ and not clean all the copper up. And then try to fire powder coated cast. I bought this little carbine for deer, so am not expecting to use it past 80 yards.

[truckjohn]

I've had more than one rough bore gun that shot a lot better with more fouling in the barrel. My first Yugo SKS had a particularly rotten bore. It wouldn't stabilize till I got a couple boxes down the pipe, and it always shot worse after cleaning. Same for a Mosin I had.

My solution - sell them and buy another with a good barrel.

[Petander]

I fire lapped about a dozen abrasive coated slugs through it and tho it was brighter the pitting is still there.

You need to start with a coarse compound and clean between shots. It will get more polished and the pit edges get smoothed out. Lots of work... depends on how much you like the particular gun. Finish with really fine paste. Clean. Shoot J:s. Clean, use JB brite. Shoot more J:s, clean,use Jb brite...

I got this 1901 Winchester 1894 takedown last year and oh boy, was the barrel pitted! After some frustrating test shootings, I ordered half a dozen lapping compound paste tubes and started to work.
Lots of shots and cleanings, took like two weeks and it's still a moon-looking barrel but now it shoots both coated and J:s.

It is still pretty hard to clean - and it has to be cleaned and oiled after shooting. But well, I keep my guns clean anyway.

I think I posted a fire lapping thread about this. Not as an instruction, just documenting. I'd say it was an experience and well worth it.

My non-existent experience with a semi-buckhorn sight shows as a high shot placement - but the accuracy is acceptable for a 120 years old rifle. Federal factory 170 grains here.

https://i.postimg.cc/MHfcnGX6/IMG-20220314-WA0011.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mZSZSCfv/IMG-20220314-WA0012.jpg

Fire lapping is like breaking in a barrel but with the compound embedded bullets.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[FabMan]

Thanks, I would be very happy with that group! I’m changing out the front sight so it doesn’t shoot two feet high. I may try some more fire lapping if the FMJ doesn’t group better. If the bore opens up I will just use cast in it.

[barrabruce]

Just for your interest.
I had a 22lr once.
It would only shoot after I slurped some lube down the barrel after cleaning.
It had a few bulges and things.
It shot good till you cleaned it again.

[truckjohn]

Fire lapping is very much one of those "Don't over do it" propositions. A little is great, lots wreck things.

The thing is, it doesn't uniformly lap. The action is MUCH more aggressive in the throat. You'll extend and wash out your throat in a hurry, but not do much else to the rest of the barrel.

If the barrel is too messed up to be a good shooter - sell it and buy one with a better barrel.

[FabMan]

I’m not going to waste anymore time conditioning the bore. I will try to shoot it one more time with different loads and see what I get. I would rather trade it and pay more to get something better. It’s hard to give up on a milsurp!