How Many Rounds Verify Handgun Reliability

[Hrfunk]

Here's one for discussion.

Howard


https://youtu.be/VUn_E2aB9Wg

[hoodat]

A better question is, "How often, and how many rounds should YOU fire your carry gun for YOU to be reliable with it".

jd

[Paul105]

Always enjoy your videos! Practical, useful information. Don't have experience with as many weapons as you have, but with those I have, my experience mimics yours.

Paul

[Paul105]

Double tap.

[contender1]

Due to slow internet,, the constant buffering etc,, I do not look at too many you-boob videos. So,, while I didn't watch this one,, I'll politely describe what I feel makes a gun reliable.

When a gun is new,, I start with a cleaning.
Then, I take an assortment of ammo out, and "test fire" it for reliability, accuracy & sight adjustment.
Once I get it going,, I'm watching for any stoppages and Why it may have happened. (Different ammo, magazines etc.)
After I get it running w/o any hitches,, I usually prefer to shoot 200-300 rounds of it's chosen ammo while seeing if it will have any hiccups. If it doesn't fail to perform I call it good.

Funny thing,, My revolvers never seem to be an issue after just a few cylinders full.

[44MAG#1]

The more you shoot the gun without a hiccup the more reliable it is. The more you shoot the gun without a hiccup with a wide variety of ammo the more reliable it is.
If a gun won't go several rounds without a hiccup in both senarios the less reliable it is.
Since nothing is perfect it is safe to say that a gun will hiccup sometime along the way if enough rounds are fired.
If a gun will function with 1 hiccup in 10,000 rounds can one tell which 1 round that will be that the gun will have the hiccup on? Could it be the next round, the 100th round or the 9999th round or the 10,000th round?
We can assume it will be somewhere along the 10,000 round count.
Does anyone know where it will be?
Now if a gun hiccups 1 out of 10 rounds we have a better idea but it could be round 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10.
But the prediction would be more accurate with the 1 in 10 gun than in the 1 in 10,000 gun.

[Paul105]

Nothing guarantees the next round will work. The more you shoot, the more likely the next one will be problem. All you can do is be comfortable with you personal "it's probably going function" criteria. Four or five hundred rounds thru a Kahr with nary a problem, then the plastic mag follower broke. 900 rounds thru a S&W M329 when the barrel/ejector housing ended up on the roof of the pistol house behind me. Just my opinion of course.

FWIW,

Paul

[44MAG#1]

Nothing guarantees the next round will work. The more you shoot, the more likely the next one will be problem. All you can do is be comfortable with you personal "it's probably going function" criteria. Four or five hundred rounds thru a Kahr with nary a problem, then the plastic mag follower broke. 900 rounds thru a S&W M329 when the barrel/ejector housing ended up on the roof of the pistol house behind me. Just my opinion of course.

FWIW,

Paul

That is what I was hinting toward.

[memtb]

Enough to get it quite fouled (with inexpensive, dirty firing ammo) and maintain it’s functionality with your chosen defense load!But, that’s just me! memtb

[44MAG#1]

I, myself, try to carry a clean gun. It may not be operating room clean but it is fairly clean. If I want to shoot my main carry gun I will be carrying another carry gun and I will clean my main carry gun before loading it and carrying it again.
But that is just me.

[charlie b]

I always fire a pistol without cleaning it to see how long it will go. After that I clean it after every range session.

Revolvers are not without their issues. I've had lockwork screws come loose and bind up a system, blowing sand tends to bind them up, and ammo failure can lock them up (squib loads).

The thing I was taught is what do you do when it does malfunction, because any weapon can fail to fire on the next round. If you freeze, not good. Know the drills.

[rintinglen]

With a revolver, for me, 36 rounds of it's intended carry ammo is enough for me to determine it's reliability for purposes of CCW.

For an Auto, before I even fire it, I clean it, and work the the slide a minimum of 200 times. Then I fire it at least 200 times with a caliber appropriate, break-in round, say a 115-125 grain FMJ for 9mm, or a 90-95 grain 380 load. Then I start testing it with HP defensive ammo. If there were no problems with the break-in ammo, then 5 magazines of HP without problems is enough for me. I do not use any of the high dollar, "boutique loads", nor do I use ultra-light or heavy for caliber loads. My carry ammo will be of a weight and loading typical of what I used to break the gun in. I will usually shoot a qualification course with my chosen ammo, (or a similar handload--these days it is hard to find defensive ammo suitable for carry, especially at a price reasonable enough to burn up several boxes in practice.)

One practice I particularly eschew is that I often see people who have fired a box or two of practice or range ammo, and then load up with some exotic round that has a very dissimilar recoil force. If you are going to carry 65 grain Underwood's in your carry pistol, you need to confirm that gun will run that ammo and shoot it somewhere close to point of aim. A marginal gain in terminal effectiveness is not worth gambling on.

[lawdog941]

Like you said in the video, 200 rounds also for my Kimber and mags. Extremely confident after that.

[dverna]

All my carry guns have well over 2000 rounds through them. When I was buying self-defense ammunition, I would put 40-50 rounds through each but that is expensive even if it only a one-time test. I have been very lucky and never had a gun that was not reliable.

I have decided to reload defensive ammunition using JHP factory bullets and that will make testing more affordable.

I would not trust a semi-auto until I get about 500 rounds thought it. If that model is used by hundreds of PD's or the military, I assume the design is sound, but I still want to put enough rounds through it to insure I have a "good" one.

Getting a lot of rounds though the carry guns was easy until I got into revolvers. I spend a lot more time with revolvers now as I hate picking up brass. But all my current carry guns are "proven" so not an issue unless I buy another one; in which case, I will go through the same protocol of 500 or so rounds of practice ammo and 40-50 using the defensive load.

[RJM52]

Was just discussing this with a friend the other day...

I have never quite understood having to fire 2-500 round of one "chosen" carry ammo through the gun before it is "good to go"...depending on the caliber that would now be $300 to $1000 in to me wasted ammo... And what happens if it chokes on round 195...start over again??? Choose another round???

What I have come to do after buying a new gun (semi) that will be carried...

1) Clean and lube

2) Cycle the action by hand for a few minutes

3) Shoot the gun with some ball/practice ammo

4) Take one's chosen defensive ammo and SLOWLY cycle the rounds through the action looking for any hangups

5) Cycle the rounds through the action at full speed

6) Run 20-40 rounds through the gun...

If no hiccups it is good to go...

Bob

[MT Gianni]

I think if a gun has problems it will generally show up in the first 250 rounds.

[Divil]

In today’s era of expensive factory ammo, I will feed any new to me pistol my handloads ( which have been verified reliable in other pistols) for the first few range visits. If function is reliable with the handloads the I will test with factory fodder.

[Froogal]

It seems that with a brand new gun, accuracy is just not quite there, but it does get better the more it is shot. About 100 rounds should do it.

[Outpost75]

I think if a gun has problems it will generally show up in the first 250 rounds.

Agree!

For my own purposes function test with 100 rounds of the actual ammo I plan to carry. If it runs 100% with no drips, runs or errors I call it good.

If there is ONE bobble I retest another 100 rounds, then accept after 200 rounds on one bobble and reject on two.

[Markwell]

Here's our take on reliability for carry guns.

http://www.thegunmag.com/testing-protocols-for-defensive-handguns/

[Good Cheer]

If I miss then she goes for the throat.
http://i.imgur.com/UENkzh8.jpg (https://imgur.com/UENkzh8)

[murf205]

"The more you shoot the gun without a hiccup the more reliable it is. The more you shoot the gun without a hiccup with a wide variety of ammo the more reliable it is."

Well, normally that is true, but I carried a 9mm compact for almost a year before I found out that the last time I shot it was the last round that would go "bang". The darned thing would not fire under any circumstances and the last time I shot it, it performed flawlessly. It went back to the factory for a total rework but I hate to think what the outcome would have been if I had to stake my life on it. I probably would'nt be writing this right now!

[charlie b]

And that can happen with any weapon, semi-auto, revolver, bolt, etc. Just ask Miculek about his broken firing pin at the nationals.

[murf205]

It sure can, but I wish they had named "Murphy's Law" after someone else!

[Bigslug]

I took an armorer's course from a fellow who was well known in the "community" as "The Guy" from one manufacturer, who was now teaching the course for another manufacturer. As part of his opening intro he started with:

"All guns are pieces of crap waiting to break or fail at a moment's notice"

Truer words were never spoken. On one extreme, you could wear your gun out to the point of unreliability testing to see if it's reliable. On another, you could have a flawed part that will run fine. . .right up to the moment it breaks. Every time you pull the trigger, it's dirtier and less lubed than the shot before, and every part has one more round on the odometer.

Does the gun work in your orthodox Weaver or isosceles stance? How about off-handed, limp-wristed, or at goofy angles?

Even if you've got absolute trust in the gun, it's magazines, and the ammo type, the ammo manufacturer may throw you a curve with the next lot of the same stock number. Maybe it worked on your carry ammo when the gun was new two years ago, and it runs on your ball practice ammo fine now, but does it still feed your aggressive nosed ammo now that the springs are tired or you have more carbon built up?

At a certain point, you realize the Gremlins are everywhere and you need to be trained up on how to handle pistols when they inevitably fail . . .and be ready to go to bayonets if need be.

[Eddie Southgate]

I do 200 rounds .